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I was gonna make a post explaining my main concern but then I realized it would be difficult when (based off the new GM announcement) I don't know exactly which direction we're going with our abilities (mainly BMR and roaring). Instead, I'll just say that I greatly appreciate the amount of thought you guys have put into it. I can tell you all gave Barbs a lot of consideration and I can't wait to see some cool stuff for us, we are needing it badly. :P
It sounds rough since it's a big change but I understand why it's being done.
Couple questions I do have though I'm not sure if Kodius has decided or not what to do:
1. Roars are disablers/debuffs for opponents. So speaking of roars only (not Battle cries), wouldn't they just be stat based like every other guilds' disablers/debuffs? If we do get a lot of development for them, then hopefully vocals can be the skill to use instead of concentration or meditation?
2. BMR sounds like it'll be based off our skill in the Supernatural skillset, as well as some stats or whatever it is you all decide. Given the nature of our guild, can it be assumed that our active (since passive will be gone) BMR abilities can potentially be as strong as the anti-magic spells from MU guilds? I understand we won't have the advantage via skillset learning rates, so at the very least I want to see some uniquely cool stuff thrown our way.
Weird thing is I'm pretty much excited for whatever happens. I feel like its been so long since we've had any major development that I'm just glad something is happening. I also understand that plain ole versatility is going to help us so much that any nerfing we take is really not going to be as bad as it may sound.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
>>Weird thing is I'm pretty much excited for whatever happens. I feel like its been so long since we've had any major development that I'm just glad something is happening.
Same same...I am pretty excited for this. Thumps up.
The only really bad thing I see is skillset placement.....what's average ranks per circle for a tert skill...like 3 ranks or even 2? I have a feeling we are going to start off behind but I guess it's not that big of a deal.
One other thing....time-frame? This is probably not going to happen quick.
Overall, I like it, can't wait.
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
Same same...I am pretty excited for this. Thumps up.
The only really bad thing I see is skillset placement.....what's average ranks per circle for a tert skill...like 3 ranks or even 2? I have a feeling we are going to start off behind but I guess it's not that big of a deal.
One other thing....time-frame? This is probably not going to happen quick.
Overall, I like it, can't wait.
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
This change has the potential to be really awesome or completely ruinous, though I suppose it helps that Barb abilities need to be reworked anyway. The grandfathering will probably make or break it for many Barbarians, how exactly are you guys planning on accounting for differences in ranks and training style?
"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf
"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf
>how exactly are you guys planning on accounting for differences in ranks and training style?<
Exact grandfathering scheme is TBD, but the plan is that after grandfathering you should end up within a very small efficacy change of where you'd be using the ability without the new skill in the picture.
Some people might get slightly better, some people might get slightly worse, but we're seriously looking for 'no big impact at release'.
The trickiest part will be grandfathering people who are 150th+++ but we'll figure that one out when the time comes.
-Z
Exact grandfathering scheme is TBD, but the plan is that after grandfathering you should end up within a very small efficacy change of where you'd be using the ability without the new skill in the picture.
Some people might get slightly better, some people might get slightly worse, but we're seriously looking for 'no big impact at release'.
The trickiest part will be grandfathering people who are 150th+++ but we'll figure that one out when the time comes.
-Z
I would feel slighted if the grandfathering was less than my lore average.......just saying.
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
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I initially read this and was worried, but I think I like this. Skills really are so much easier to integrate into the general system when they are based on ranks, and I like the idea of powering my abilities (duration or something) based on actual ranks.
"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer
"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer
Actually I guess that doesn't make sense if the new skills are going to be a combat skill.......are they?
I'm curious how we would be training the skill...
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I'm curious how we would be training the skill...
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
>>I'm curious how we would be training the skill...
From what I understand, training both Warding and Concentration (meditation/inner fire or whatever it will be) is done by activating those abilities.
So for example, activating Badger dance will train our Concentration skill throughout the duration of the ability. Kind of how climb practice continues to train the climbing skill until it ends.
Likewise, activating one of our new BMR abilities will train the Warding skill throughout the duration of the ability.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
From what I understand, training both Warding and Concentration (meditation/inner fire or whatever it will be) is done by activating those abilities.
So for example, activating Badger dance will train our Concentration skill throughout the duration of the ability. Kind of how climb practice continues to train the climbing skill until it ends.
Likewise, activating one of our new BMR abilities will train the Warding skill throughout the duration of the ability.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
>>I'm curious how we would be training the skill...
Zeyurn's post mentioned bardic enchantes. IIf you are not familiar with them, they pulse (much like berserks), and every pulse teaches Vocals/PM/Harness based on the mana level you're using. To equate if with something with which you are probably familiar, imagine getting Inner Fire experience every time your dance or berserk pulsed. Generally, if you're using an enchante as high as you can sing it, you're learning great magic and Vocals experience from enchantes, so I hope the same would prove true of Barbarians and Inner Fire ranks.
"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer
Zeyurn's post mentioned bardic enchantes. IIf you are not familiar with them, they pulse (much like berserks), and every pulse teaches Vocals/PM/Harness based on the mana level you're using. To equate if with something with which you are probably familiar, imagine getting Inner Fire experience every time your dance or berserk pulsed. Generally, if you're using an enchante as high as you can sing it, you're learning great magic and Vocals experience from enchantes, so I hope the same would prove true of Barbarians and Inner Fire ranks.
"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer
Our goal is to bring about the core guild changes in time for Magic 3.0's release, though we are still considering what makes sense for each ability to contest and teach. Much like Magic 3.0 is doing away with "tiers" and the concept of higher end abilities that render lower end abilities obsolete, I want to see all barbarian abilities grow with the player and remain useful throughout their career. This is made much easier by allowing us to tie the growth to a skill, and not just circle or stats or some other metric that scales poorly.
As for Berserks, they will most likely not be penalized by discipline, and will be modified to scale with the user's skill in focusing his or her Inner Fire. Other abilities such as roars will be heavily based off Inner Fire skill, though stats can still play a role.
Training is accomplished by employing your guild abilities. For example, you may meditate and then begin a martial form (the new term for "dance") in preparation of combat. Both would teach, the applied form pulsing exp from time to time. Once in combat you begin berserking and get added pulsing experience. Trouble hits and you stack on some berserks and another form, roaring several times in the process and learning more experience. Then when combat is over, you meditate in hopes of numbing your mind from the pain caused by leaving your arm on the field of battle... also teaching inner fire skill.
Now, that was just a theoretical situation, but I hope you can see that at each stage of hunting there will be an opportunity for skill training. Opportunities for learning Inner Fire skill outside of combat may be more limited, though some of that will depend on what abilities an individual learns.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
As for Berserks, they will most likely not be penalized by discipline, and will be modified to scale with the user's skill in focusing his or her Inner Fire. Other abilities such as roars will be heavily based off Inner Fire skill, though stats can still play a role.
Training is accomplished by employing your guild abilities. For example, you may meditate and then begin a martial form (the new term for "dance") in preparation of combat. Both would teach, the applied form pulsing exp from time to time. Once in combat you begin berserking and get added pulsing experience. Trouble hits and you stack on some berserks and another form, roaring several times in the process and learning more experience. Then when combat is over, you meditate in hopes of numbing your mind from the pain caused by leaving your arm on the field of battle... also teaching inner fire skill.
Now, that was just a theoretical situation, but I hope you can see that at each stage of hunting there will be an opportunity for skill training. Opportunities for learning Inner Fire skill outside of combat may be more limited, though some of that will depend on what abilities an individual learns.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Lots and lots of questions, but I'll keep it simple:
You mentioned "roaring several times in the process"; does this mean you're going to be implementing some mechanism for us to roar more than once every 3 minutes? If so (I realize it's early on), can you give a brief explanation of your idea?
You mentioned "roaring several times in the process"; does this mean you're going to be implementing some mechanism for us to roar more than once every 3 minutes? If so (I realize it's early on), can you give a brief explanation of your idea?
The ability to selectively enable and stack one ability with another (similar to Khri) is a goal for the new design. In the old system, stacking a berserk and a dance was a rather flawed concept. The IF hit is ridiculous, and the global caps would weep! The term "dance" also never seemed to fit the controlled form of movement implied by each ability. It isn't hard to imagine a warrior caught up in bloodlust, yet employing a set of manuevers, stances, postures and balances that encompass a "form".
As for experience learning the answer is "maybe". If you aren't killing enemies, your form or berserk is unlikely to last as long, resulting in poor learning, if learning outside of combat is allowed in the final design. But, non-combat abilities wouldn't suffer the same duration penalties, and therefore could be a better way to train.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
As for experience learning the answer is "maybe". If you aren't killing enemies, your form or berserk is unlikely to last as long, resulting in poor learning, if learning outside of combat is allowed in the final design. But, non-combat abilities wouldn't suffer the same duration penalties, and therefore could be a better way to train.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
as long as its kept in mind that although the vast majority of times we'll use the dances - or "forms" in combat, there are also some things we use them for that aren't combat:
eagle- to get into the viper/leucro area.
bear - to swim, or in forging
"If Elanthia can survive putting a dragon inside of its molten core, I think it can survive a few black-robed magicians sitting on Gibbet Hill"-<parshift>
eagle- to get into the viper/leucro area.
bear - to swim, or in forging
"If Elanthia can survive putting a dragon inside of its molten core, I think it can survive a few black-robed magicians sitting on Gibbet Hill"-<parshift>
<<As for experience learning the answer is "maybe". If you aren't killing enemies, your form or berserk is unlikely to last as long, resulting in poor learning, if learning outside of combat is allowed in the final design. But, non-combat abilities wouldn't suffer the same duration penalties, and therefore could be a better way to train.>>
There's a big problem with a form or berserk not lasting long outside combat... PvP. If there's someone fleeing from me, someone I need to flee from and buff up to attack, or someone using stealth and ranged weapons I want my buffs to stay up and running.
It will be sad if all an enemy has to do to debuff a Barb is retreat and hide until their buff fails due to the system thinking he's out of combat.
However I have no problem at all with dances/berserks only teaching when engaged with a critter, if that's how other similar abilities are going to work for other guilds.
"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf
There's a big problem with a form or berserk not lasting long outside combat... PvP. If there's someone fleeing from me, someone I need to flee from and buff up to attack, or someone using stealth and ranged weapons I want my buffs to stay up and running.
It will be sad if all an enemy has to do to debuff a Barb is retreat and hide until their buff fails due to the system thinking he's out of combat.
However I have no problem at all with dances/berserks only teaching when engaged with a critter, if that's how other similar abilities are going to work for other guilds.
"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf
I was worried about the implications when I first heard the idea of Warding - how could Barbarians maintain competitive anti-magical abilities if MU barriers were based on ranks and Barbarians were based on ???... seems only fair to make the ranked version superior.
I really like this new direction. It's very, very unexepected, but it answers a lot of the questions I had about the Magic 3.0 changes.
"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer
I really like this new direction. It's very, very unexepected, but it answers a lot of the questions I had about the Magic 3.0 changes.
"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer
Either I'm confused or I have an issue. In order to get better at using our guild abilities such as berserks and dances, we will need to use a skill in the "supernatural" skillset. We will be learning this as a tertiary skill set rate. If this is the case then it will be harder and harder to keep up with other guilds abilities as we increase in level. Of course I may be way off and this has already been addressed.
Also, before I forget to ask, what is your take regarding berserks, Kodius? Your last post seems to imply berserks will fall under the category of stackable abilities, whereas Zeyurn referred to them as "secondary" abilities in the NMU post.
Conceptually, at least under the current system, berserks are actually our primary ability, at least in terms of scope - certainly not in terms of usage. Whereas dances only cover a circle range of about fifty circles, berserks are with a Barbarians (again, conceptually) the entire span of his career: from his first step out of the guild as a circle two, and still learning new abilities once the guild leaders decide they have nothing left to teach him or her.
Berserks have several big design problems, I think, that impact their usability, but I would say the biggest one by far long-term is that they cannot be mixed with dances. Combine this with ease of usage and the reality becomes that berserks are almost universally neglected post-50th. Thematically, it makes perfect sense if some of them are biased heavily towards combat, though as Vashir pointed out this alone will already impact their overall usability. In plain English, berserks influence my personal roleplay much more than controlled martial forms, so A) please make them awesome without tons of negative side-effects for "flavor" and B) please don't send them off into the corner by themselves (i.e. non-stackable with other abilities) while you can stack any dances or meditations or forms or whatever.
That's all. I love berserks in concept, I'd just like to see them taken out of the cold and brought back into the warm embrace of awesomeoness and usability that will define the new system.
P.S. CAPPED PERCEPTION BOOSTER PLEASE. It's the only quasi-"combat" skill we suck at currently.
"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer
Conceptually, at least under the current system, berserks are actually our primary ability, at least in terms of scope - certainly not in terms of usage. Whereas dances only cover a circle range of about fifty circles, berserks are with a Barbarians (again, conceptually) the entire span of his career: from his first step out of the guild as a circle two, and still learning new abilities once the guild leaders decide they have nothing left to teach him or her.
Berserks have several big design problems, I think, that impact their usability, but I would say the biggest one by far long-term is that they cannot be mixed with dances. Combine this with ease of usage and the reality becomes that berserks are almost universally neglected post-50th. Thematically, it makes perfect sense if some of them are biased heavily towards combat, though as Vashir pointed out this alone will already impact their overall usability. In plain English, berserks influence my personal roleplay much more than controlled martial forms, so A) please make them awesome without tons of negative side-effects for "flavor" and B) please don't send them off into the corner by themselves (i.e. non-stackable with other abilities) while you can stack any dances or meditations or forms or whatever.
That's all. I love berserks in concept, I'd just like to see them taken out of the cold and brought back into the warm embrace of awesomeoness and usability that will define the new system.
P.S. CAPPED PERCEPTION BOOSTER PLEASE. It's the only quasi-"combat" skill we suck at currently.
"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer
>Either I'm confused or I have an issue. In order to get better at using our guild abilities such as berserks and dances, we will need to use a skill in the "supernatural" skillset. We will be learning this as a tertiary skill set rate. If this is the case then it will be harder and harder to keep up with other guilds abilities as we increase in level.
This is the issue every guild faces with skillsets.
This is the issue every guild faces with skillsets.
>>Either I'm confused or I have an issue. In order to get better at using our guild abilities such as berserks and dances, we will need to use a skill in the "supernatural" skillset. We will be learning this as a tertiary skill set rate. If this is the case then it will be harder and harder to keep up with other guilds abilities as we increase in level. Of course I may be way off and this has already been addressed.
I wouldn't worry too much. We will be learning them at a tertiary rate, yes, but take a look at Paladins. They get along quite fine with their magic (or their buffs, at least) even though they are magic tertiary: Courage, Holy Warrior, Anti-Stun, Divine Armor, etc. are all fantastic and desirable even though they learn Holy Magic and Harness at a tertiary rate.
The ranks will be grandfathered in enough to ensure that your buffs will still remain effective, and afterwards if they work anything like Bard enchantes then you should have no trouble keeping your Warding (Magic Resistance?) and Inner Fire (?) ranks moving constantly. My only current concern is a very minor one: if Warding will determine the strength of magical resistance, as you said Barbarians learn it at a tertiary rate, so it seems like magic resistance would inevitably become biased towards magical guilds. That is the opposite of current philosophy.
In any case, as long as Barbarians have the option of being great at resisting magic, so be it.
"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer
I wouldn't worry too much. We will be learning them at a tertiary rate, yes, but take a look at Paladins. They get along quite fine with their magic (or their buffs, at least) even though they are magic tertiary: Courage, Holy Warrior, Anti-Stun, Divine Armor, etc. are all fantastic and desirable even though they learn Holy Magic and Harness at a tertiary rate.
The ranks will be grandfathered in enough to ensure that your buffs will still remain effective, and afterwards if they work anything like Bard enchantes then you should have no trouble keeping your Warding (Magic Resistance?) and Inner Fire (?) ranks moving constantly. My only current concern is a very minor one: if Warding will determine the strength of magical resistance, as you said Barbarians learn it at a tertiary rate, so it seems like magic resistance would inevitably become biased towards magical guilds. That is the opposite of current philosophy.
In any case, as long as Barbarians have the option of being great at resisting magic, so be it.
"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer
Love the whole concept!
Will we learn this new Inner Fire skill at primary rate like it is proposed for smithing or will it be tertary as it is in the Paranormal Skillset? Inner fire is a primary thing for a barbarian and powers all our guild abilities. I believe it should be learned at primary rates.
I am commenting on this now as it is usally easier to include something like this at the design stage rather than after it has been released.
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
Will we learn this new Inner Fire skill at primary rate like it is proposed for smithing or will it be tertary as it is in the Paranormal Skillset? Inner fire is a primary thing for a barbarian and powers all our guild abilities. I believe it should be learned at primary rates.
I am commenting on this now as it is usally easier to include something like this at the design stage rather than after it has been released.
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
>Will we learn this new Inner Fire skill at primary rate like it is proposed for smithing or will it be tertary as it is in the Paranormal Skillset? Inner fire is a primary thing for a barbarian and powers all our guild abilities.
Smithing is going to be a lore skill. Tertiary learning rate. You will learn it at the same rate as Inner Fire, however.
Smithing is going to be a lore skill. Tertiary learning rate. You will learn it at the same rate as Inner Fire, however.
>>I am commenting on this now as it is usally easier to include something like this at the design stage rather than after it has been released.
The Magic skillset is being changed to the Supernatural skillset, and Inner Fire and Warding (magic resistance) will be in this skillset. We will learn it at a tertiary rate.
"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer
The Magic skillset is being changed to the Supernatural skillset, and Inner Fire and Warding (magic resistance) will be in this skillset. We will learn it at a tertiary rate.
"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer
>>as long as its kept in mind that although the vast majority of times we'll use the dances - or "forms" in combat, there are also some things we use them for that aren't combat:
This occurred to me also. Back when I was a tiny wee Barb I occasionally used Blood and/or Stone to swim the brook when my burden was too high.
~Talo, Prydaen Barbarian~
This occurred to me also. Back when I was a tiny wee Barb I occasionally used Blood and/or Stone to swim the brook when my burden was too high.
~Talo, Prydaen Barbarian~
Howdy guys. I only have time to say a few things before I head out for the day -
It is possible that some very specific, combat oriented abilities will work and teach and last better in combat. Berserks tend to come to mind. Let me just throw out an example - you have a whole list of abilities, and you decide to activate one that periodically pulses a whirl-wind out with your weapon. The learning for that ability may be tied to whether or not you hit anything, thus making it work and teach better when actually in combat.
I am aware of the PvP limitations many of the current abilities have, so try not to worry too much before seeing the whole picture. The majority of abilities will not require you to be engaged to maintain or be effective.
As for warding, the plan is for barbarian abilities that interact with magic to teach that skill. For example, you perform a meditation that wards against intrusions to your thoughts - and gain some warding experience. This will be similar to the concept of a MU casting a barrier spell, and learning warding experience. While barbarians are tertiary in the skill, expect the ability itself to be balanced with that in mind - barbarian magic affecting abilities do not all have to be weaker rank for rank.
Ok, got to jet!
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
It is possible that some very specific, combat oriented abilities will work and teach and last better in combat. Berserks tend to come to mind. Let me just throw out an example - you have a whole list of abilities, and you decide to activate one that periodically pulses a whirl-wind out with your weapon. The learning for that ability may be tied to whether or not you hit anything, thus making it work and teach better when actually in combat.
I am aware of the PvP limitations many of the current abilities have, so try not to worry too much before seeing the whole picture. The majority of abilities will not require you to be engaged to maintain or be effective.
As for warding, the plan is for barbarian abilities that interact with magic to teach that skill. For example, you perform a meditation that wards against intrusions to your thoughts - and gain some warding experience. This will be similar to the concept of a MU casting a barrier spell, and learning warding experience. While barbarians are tertiary in the skill, expect the ability itself to be balanced with that in mind - barbarian magic affecting abilities do not all have to be weaker rank for rank.
Ok, got to jet!
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
>>It isn't hard to imagine a warrior caught up in bloodlust, yet employing a set of manuevers, stances, postures and balances that encompass a "form".
This reads to me that berserks and dances may be merged? Meaning, there will be forms that have boosts like dances and there will be forms that have boosts like berserks......which sounds ok to me.
On the whole grandfathering ranks TBD bit. I believe it should only be loosely based off of circle and more strongly based off some calculation of "time spent in combat".
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
This reads to me that berserks and dances may be merged? Meaning, there will be forms that have boosts like dances and there will be forms that have boosts like berserks......which sounds ok to me.
On the whole grandfathering ranks TBD bit. I believe it should only be loosely based off of circle and more strongly based off some calculation of "time spent in combat".
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
I beilieve in the lore split barbarians will learn smithing at primary rate. Can this not be done for these primary abilities also? I guess adjusting <<While barbarians are tertiary in the skill, expect the ability itself to be balanced with that in mind >> as Kodius says could also cover it.
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
Sorry, the proposed smithing/lore split has change SOOO much over the last 6 or 7 years I get confused. I thought we would be learning smithing at primary rate, rangers would be learning tanning and palies would be learning smithing. But this probably change.
It was in the chagnge once, I am not sure if it is in the 'latest' set of changes. But weather in the lore split or not, is it possible to do it for these Paranormal Skills?
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
It was in the chagnge once, I am not sure if it is in the 'latest' set of changes. But weather in the lore split or not, is it possible to do it for these Paranormal Skills?
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
<<It was in the chagnge once, I am not sure if it is in the 'latest' set of changes. But weather in the lore split or not, is it possible to do it for these Paranormal Skills?
Honestly, with the most recent changes to learning and expansion of pool sizes, the differences between primary and tertiary skills aren't as dramatic as they once were. As such, I'm a definite fan of the KISS (keep it simple, stupid) method.
Nikpack
The gods are jerks. No, really.
-Armifer
Honestly, with the most recent changes to learning and expansion of pool sizes, the differences between primary and tertiary skills aren't as dramatic as they once were. As such, I'm a definite fan of the KISS (keep it simple, stupid) method.
Nikpack
The gods are jerks. No, really.
-Armifer
Take it from a ranger, having the skill you use to fuel your primary boosting abilities as tert does not slow me down at all. While it does require dedication, it is quite feasible to keep tert and primary skills close enough to derive the maximum benefit. This is true under the current system and I don't expect that to change.
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning
