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Hey folks,
Returning after quite a while and I'm reacquainting myself with things. I've decided to start a new character and felt that I've really wanted to play a bard so I'm giving it a go.
I've been reading up on Elanthipedia, but I'm at a bit of a impasse on trying to decide what spells to pick to not only ensure they're useful at low circle, but that I'm getting everything that I need to train all the new magic skills.
Could you guys and gals give a bit of advice on what spells you folks picked or what spells you would pick and perhaps why you feel they'd be a good idea. I think other than this, I've read enough to figure out a decent training regimen.
The only other issue I have is figuring out what instruments to use when for the appropriate skill level.
Thank you!
I'd suggest skipping any TM spells for a while, you can buy a STRA scroll for 1.5 gold and invoke it, thus freeing up a spell slot. Specific spells, I usually use fae, caress, aether wolves, and glythtide's joy for my novice bards.
Just as a note, check out the magic shop. You can buy 1-2 mana camb for 3 silver, and depending on how long it's been since you played, it may be a surprise that you can actually use it to train with starting at level 1.
Just as a note, check out the magic shop. You can buy 1-2 mana camb for 3 silver, and depending on how long it's been since you played, it may be a surprise that you can actually use it to train with starting at level 1.
Hey. These are interesting questions for me, since I got my Bard going during the preview and thus didn't have to make early spell choices. But here's what I might suggest:
- Utility. Caress of the Sun is free and should teach you Utility.
- TM. As Vickers said, you can get STRA for cheap, INVOKE it and use it to train TM without spending a spell slot. Alternatively, Breath of Storms is only one slot.
- Warding. Glythtide's Joy should teach this nicely, but is not very useful -- it creates a TM barrier and you aren't likely to be facing magic-using creatures. You might also consider getting Breath of Storms for TM and invoking Manifest Force for Warding -- it's a highly useful barrier spell that negates a lot of damage from the next 6 damage-dealing hits.
- Augmentation. Faenella's Grace is cheap and a cyclic, BUT Eillie's Cry is both more useful (lowers your Performance training time) and leads to the best low-level hunting spell: Hodierna's Lilt, which is a cyclic that restores your vitality and fatigue.
- Debilitation. This is the tough one. It looks like your only real options are Demrris' Resolve (expensive but useful: it makes all your enemies prone/immobilized), Aether Wolves (cheaper and cyclic, but much less useful: it drains mana and immobilizes just one foe), and Burden (cheapest, not very useful: it adds some burden to one foe).
If it were me, I'd get: Manifest Force on scroll, and 1) Breath of Storms, 2) Eillie's Cry, 3) Demrris' Resolve, 4) Hodierna's Lilt. Those should all teach you well, and you'll be in a great combat position with a powerful vitality-boosting cyclic, an area-wide debilitation, and a strong barrier spell. But if you think you can handle combat without much magical aid, you might aim for the cheaper cyclics for easy learning.
A couple of other pointers:
- Instruments. You should be able to start with a lyre or bones, both found in the Crossing shop. I liked bones because they are one-handed, so I could read a compendium in the other hand. Note that you might fumble through the first 15 or so ranks before you can get to "slight hint of difficulty", which is the sweet spot. You will need to stay out of bad weather or use Caress of the Sun while playing, until you can get a weatherproof instrument (spoons, stamping stick, whiskey jug, or some rarer crystal/glass instruments). If you want to do more research on instruments, you can check out the (outdated) Strings, Percussions, and Winds skill pages on elanthipedia. They still have lists of instruments from easiest to hardest.
- Cyclics. These stop teaching after about 4 minutes, at which point you'll need to restart them to learn again.
- Train Arcana. You will need 100 Arcana for most magical feats, 180ish to charge cambrinth while wearing it, and 250ish to cast the most difficult ritual spells. Vickers mentioned the cheap cambrinth in the Artificer's shop -- use this!
-- Player of Eyuve
- Utility. Caress of the Sun is free and should teach you Utility.
- TM. As Vickers said, you can get STRA for cheap, INVOKE it and use it to train TM without spending a spell slot. Alternatively, Breath of Storms is only one slot.
- Warding. Glythtide's Joy should teach this nicely, but is not very useful -- it creates a TM barrier and you aren't likely to be facing magic-using creatures. You might also consider getting Breath of Storms for TM and invoking Manifest Force for Warding -- it's a highly useful barrier spell that negates a lot of damage from the next 6 damage-dealing hits.
- Augmentation. Faenella's Grace is cheap and a cyclic, BUT Eillie's Cry is both more useful (lowers your Performance training time) and leads to the best low-level hunting spell: Hodierna's Lilt, which is a cyclic that restores your vitality and fatigue.
- Debilitation. This is the tough one. It looks like your only real options are Demrris' Resolve (expensive but useful: it makes all your enemies prone/immobilized), Aether Wolves (cheaper and cyclic, but much less useful: it drains mana and immobilizes just one foe), and Burden (cheapest, not very useful: it adds some burden to one foe).
If it were me, I'd get: Manifest Force on scroll, and 1) Breath of Storms, 2) Eillie's Cry, 3) Demrris' Resolve, 4) Hodierna's Lilt. Those should all teach you well, and you'll be in a great combat position with a powerful vitality-boosting cyclic, an area-wide debilitation, and a strong barrier spell. But if you think you can handle combat without much magical aid, you might aim for the cheaper cyclics for easy learning.
A couple of other pointers:
- Instruments. You should be able to start with a lyre or bones, both found in the Crossing shop. I liked bones because they are one-handed, so I could read a compendium in the other hand. Note that you might fumble through the first 15 or so ranks before you can get to "slight hint of difficulty", which is the sweet spot. You will need to stay out of bad weather or use Caress of the Sun while playing, until you can get a weatherproof instrument (spoons, stamping stick, whiskey jug, or some rarer crystal/glass instruments). If you want to do more research on instruments, you can check out the (outdated) Strings, Percussions, and Winds skill pages on elanthipedia. They still have lists of instruments from easiest to hardest.
- Cyclics. These stop teaching after about 4 minutes, at which point you'll need to restart them to learn again.
- Train Arcana. You will need 100 Arcana for most magical feats, 180ish to charge cambrinth while wearing it, and 250ish to cast the most difficult ritual spells. Vickers mentioned the cheap cambrinth in the Artificer's shop -- use this!
-- Player of Eyuve
Like Eyuve I started my bard during spell preview (well, close enough so it didn't matter....) so I don't have actual low level experience, but I would echo most of his sentiments.
CARE is free and no reason not to pick it up, so I would probably do, at each circle:
1: CARE and BOS
2: ECRY
3: Nothing
4: Hodi
5: GJ
6: Nothing
7: AEWO
This gets you the ability to train all magic types and gives you 2 useful combat cyclics. A MAF scroll isn't going to be useful at all while your magics are low. I wouldn't bother.
Personally, I love DALU so I would save slots to be able to buy that at 20 as well as HARM at 30. RAGE, DRUM, and NAME are my other go-to combat buffs so I would tech to them ASAP as well, in that order. Get DRUM first if you do boxes, though. Once I got DALU I would probably forget AEWO to free up slots.
I find the most useful feats to be dedicated cambrinth, deep attunement, and efficient channeling.
In terms of instruments, go to Riverhaven and get some zills. Wearable, weatherproof, one handed. Seriously, no reason to have a different instrument for your first 400+ ranks. Performance training is terrible and useless.
Don't forget to vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
CARE is free and no reason not to pick it up, so I would probably do, at each circle:
1: CARE and BOS
2: ECRY
3: Nothing
4: Hodi
5: GJ
6: Nothing
7: AEWO
This gets you the ability to train all magic types and gives you 2 useful combat cyclics. A MAF scroll isn't going to be useful at all while your magics are low. I wouldn't bother.
Personally, I love DALU so I would save slots to be able to buy that at 20 as well as HARM at 30. RAGE, DRUM, and NAME are my other go-to combat buffs so I would tech to them ASAP as well, in that order. Get DRUM first if you do boxes, though. Once I got DALU I would probably forget AEWO to free up slots.
I find the most useful feats to be dedicated cambrinth, deep attunement, and efficient channeling.
In terms of instruments, go to Riverhaven and get some zills. Wearable, weatherproof, one handed. Seriously, no reason to have a different instrument for your first 400+ ranks. Performance training is terrible and useless.
Don't forget to vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
>>I would echo most of his sentiments.
Minor correction: I'm a lady. ;)
>>A MAF scroll isn't going to be useful at all while your magics are low.
You know, you're right. I think there is an Arcana check to read/invoke scrolls. So yeah, go with GJ for Warding. Too bad too, as I thought that might be a nice solution for novices.
Also a good suggestion to start with Aether Wolves and later forget it -- BUT keep in mind that we haven't learned yet how easy it will be to forget spells. Currently we are allowed to forget them, but it might be more of a chore in future (though GMs have hinted it will still be available).
Definitely agree that HARM and NAME are staple combat spells, but keep in mind they take significant skill -- you might not be able to cast them (or keep them up for long) right away.
-- Player of Eyuve
Minor correction: I'm a lady. ;)
>>A MAF scroll isn't going to be useful at all while your magics are low.
You know, you're right. I think there is an Arcana check to read/invoke scrolls. So yeah, go with GJ for Warding. Too bad too, as I thought that might be a nice solution for novices.
Also a good suggestion to start with Aether Wolves and later forget it -- BUT keep in mind that we haven't learned yet how easy it will be to forget spells. Currently we are allowed to forget them, but it might be more of a chore in future (though GMs have hinted it will still be available).
Definitely agree that HARM and NAME are staple combat spells, but keep in mind they take significant skill -- you might not be able to cast them (or keep them up for long) right away.
-- Player of Eyuve
>You know, you're right. I think there is an Arcana check to read/invoke scrolls. So yeah, go with GJ for Warding. Too bad too, as I thought that might be a nice solution for novices.
MAF can be learned with less than 60 ranks of Arcana. Just for reference. Not certain how HOW much less, though.
MAF can be learned with less than 60 ranks of Arcana. Just for reference. Not certain how HOW much less, though.
<<Debilitation. This is the tough one. It looks like your only real options are Demrris' Resolve (expensive but useful: it makes all your enemies prone/immobilized), Aether Wolves (cheaper and cyclic, but much less useful: it drains mana and immobilizes just one foe), and Burden (cheapest, not very useful: it adds some burden to one foe).
I will point out that Burden is all but useless to train Debilitation unless you alternate casting it with a dispelling ability. It doesn't replace a previous cast which means you don't learn experience from repeated casts until it wears off, and the duration is too long to be able to cast it with enough frequency to lock the skill even when fighting four targets.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
I will point out that Burden is all but useless to train Debilitation unless you alternate casting it with a dispelling ability. It doesn't replace a previous cast which means you don't learn experience from repeated casts until it wears off, and the duration is too long to be able to cast it with enough frequency to lock the skill even when fighting four targets.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
>>I was able to invoke STRA straight out of the character generator, so I'll assume MAF is the same, since both are 1.5 gold scrolls?
I just tested this with a circle 1 character with 6-8 ranks of Arcana (accidentally gained some ranks during testing).
Strange Arrow -- invoked
Ease Burden -- invoked
Lay Ward -- invoked
Dispel -- invoked
Manifest Force -- could not read
Gauge Flow -- could not read
Burden -- could not read
Seal Cambrinth -- could not read
Imbue -- could not read
It doesn't seem related to their cost (and MAF is 3.5 gold by the way), nor their difficulty, nor their location on the spell tree, as Dispel is the most expensive, the most difficult (advanced), and at the top of the tree.
As an aside, it is really cool that some spells are invokable at this level. Dispel might be an oversight though, since my noob definitely did not have the skill to actually cast it.
-- Player of Eyuve
I just tested this with a circle 1 character with 6-8 ranks of Arcana (accidentally gained some ranks during testing).
Strange Arrow -- invoked
Ease Burden -- invoked
Lay Ward -- invoked
Dispel -- invoked
Manifest Force -- could not read
Gauge Flow -- could not read
Burden -- could not read
Seal Cambrinth -- could not read
Imbue -- could not read
It doesn't seem related to their cost (and MAF is 3.5 gold by the way), nor their difficulty, nor their location on the spell tree, as Dispel is the most expensive, the most difficult (advanced), and at the top of the tree.
As an aside, it is really cool that some spells are invokable at this level. Dispel might be an oversight though, since my noob definitely did not have the skill to actually cast it.
-- Player of Eyuve
<<Where are these sold?
All Analogous Patterns spells are sold at the artificer's shop in Crossing.
(They're also sold in Ratha's magic shop, but I think the shop mechanics are somewhat broken and they cost about 10 times as much there, so don't use that option.)
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
All Analogous Patterns spells are sold at the artificer's shop in Crossing.
(They're also sold in Ratha's magic shop, but I think the shop mechanics are somewhat broken and they cost about 10 times as much there, so don't use that option.)
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
And remember to take a *long term* look at your spells, because we only get to learn so many now.
I tried to help someone young pick spells the other day and I realized I didn't have any clue at all what being a young bard is like in 2014. :(
~D
- - -
~Dreamheart Delaevan Forestwolf
Singing since before the Guild was restored.
I tried to help someone young pick spells the other day and I realized I didn't have any clue at all what being a young bard is like in 2014. :(
~D
- - -
~Dreamheart Delaevan Forestwolf
Singing since before the Guild was restored.
Dusting off my 40ish circle bard, perhaps as a data point for some spell stuff and considerations?
You recall the spells you have learned from your training.
In the chapter entitled "Fae Arts", you have notes on the Aether Wolves [aewo] and Glythtide's Joy [gj] spells.
In the chapter entitled "Emotion Control", you have notes on the Damaris' Lullaby [dalu] and Faenella's Grace [fae] spells.
In the chapter entitled "Sound Manipulation", you have notes on the Demrris' Resolve [dmrs], Drums of the Snake [drum], Eillie's Cry [ecry], Harmony, Hodierna's Lilt [hodi], and Resonance spells.
In the chapter entitled "Elemental Invocations", you have notes on the Breath of Storms [bos], Caress of the Sun [care], Desert's Maelstrom [dema], and Phoenix's Pyre [pyre] spells.
You recall proficiency with the magic feats of Augmentation Mastery, Debilitation Mastery and Raw Channeling.
So, PYRE and NAME are presently unusable, but I wanted to have them and was obstinate. So, that was dumb. I may pick up TM Mastery in a handful of circles to facilitate casting PYRE, same with Warding Mastery, though Warding is moving pretty quick.
I still think the organization of the Bard spellbook is a little odd. Early on, not having access to a useful Ward or a useful self buff is a bit rough, though admittedly anything pre-50th is kind of a wash. It is frustrating only picking a couple of spells for trainers (GJ, i'm looking at you!). I also feel a handful of the early spells/requisites are too similar in function for younger Bards, namely AEWO and DALU (both being AoE Cyclic Debils that make it easier to deal with a crowd), and ALB for RAGE.
I think the adjustments to some of the abilities seems fair, but I do miss some of the perks. DEMA being a balance buff was pretty nice, and now I don't think I'll be using it much.
Anywhodle, good to be back, fun stuff!
Oh, but yeah, this is what I meant to mention:
You recall the spells you have learned from your training.
In the chapter entitled "Fae Arts", you have notes on the Aether Wolves [aewo] and Glythtide's Joy [gj] spells.
In the chapter entitled "Emotion Control", you have notes on the Damaris' Lullaby [dalu] and Faenella's Grace [fae] spells.
In the chapter entitled "Sound Manipulation", you have notes on the Demrris' Resolve [dmrs], Drums of the Snake [drum], Eillie's Cry [ecry], Harmony, Hodierna's Lilt [hodi], and Resonance spells.
In the chapter entitled "Elemental Invocations", you have notes on the Breath of Storms [bos], Caress of the Sun [care], Desert's Maelstrom [dema], and Phoenix's Pyre [pyre] spells.
You recall proficiency with the magic feats of Augmentation Mastery, Debilitation Mastery and Raw Channeling.
With unlimited forgets, I'd currently drop DMRS, DEMA and AEWO with no plans to pick them up again.
I'm by no means a Bard magic expert, but:
DMRS has been really useful - particularly in group hunt/quest runs where we can stand back and drop a bunch of critters to allow the big hitters to get the job done quicker. Was really satisfying to Resolve Lyras during BTB. I also use it as my 'get out of jail' enchant when I'm overwhelmed (and too hoarse to scream).
AEWO was a great spell before I had ABAN available - I used it really successfully in PvP, as (I think) it put my opponent in RT during their casting.
And, don't give up on GJ... it's a must have for me with any spell casting critter or in PvP with a waggler. I suffer from having rubbish shield skills, and being able to prevent casting makes critters like Gremlins and Seords huntable.
TM Mastery feat will definately give you a head-start with PYRE. Make sure you keep moving your arcana along with yer TM skill.
I'm with you on DEMA - I loved it in preview with the dual buff, but I didn't pick it up when I had to choose. Not because it isn't useful, but there are other things that are probably better.
Hope this helps.
Az
Azkaban UiNeill, Bard of Therengia, an Elf
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Azkaban
Singing for tips, since 312.
DMRS has been really useful - particularly in group hunt/quest runs where we can stand back and drop a bunch of critters to allow the big hitters to get the job done quicker. Was really satisfying to Resolve Lyras during BTB. I also use it as my 'get out of jail' enchant when I'm overwhelmed (and too hoarse to scream).
AEWO was a great spell before I had ABAN available - I used it really successfully in PvP, as (I think) it put my opponent in RT during their casting.
And, don't give up on GJ... it's a must have for me with any spell casting critter or in PvP with a waggler. I suffer from having rubbish shield skills, and being able to prevent casting makes critters like Gremlins and Seords huntable.
TM Mastery feat will definately give you a head-start with PYRE. Make sure you keep moving your arcana along with yer TM skill.
I'm with you on DEMA - I loved it in preview with the dual buff, but I didn't pick it up when I had to choose. Not because it isn't useful, but there are other things that are probably better.
Hope this helps.
Az
Azkaban UiNeill, Bard of Therengia, an Elf
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Azkaban
Singing for tips, since 312.
Circle 84 here.
In the chapter entitled "Fae Arts", you have notes on the Aether Wolves [aewo], Blessing of the Fae [botf], Eye of Kertigen [eye], and Glythtide's Joy [gj] spells.
In the chapter entitled "Emotion Control", you have notes on the Albreda's Balm [alb], Damaris' Lullaby [dalu], Whispers of the Muse [wotm], Faenella's Grace [fae], Rage of the Clans [rage], and Redeemer's Pride [repr] spells.
In the chapter entitled "Sound Manipulation", you have notes on the Demrris' Resolve [dmrs], Drums of the Snake [drum], Eillie's Cry [ecry], Harmony, and Hodierna's Lilt [hodi] spells.
In the chapter entitled "Elemental Invocations", you have notes on the Breath of Storms [bos], Caress of the Sun [care], and Desert's Maelstrom [dema] spells.
You recall proficiency with the magic feats of Legerdemain, Basic Preparation Recognition, Faster Targeting, Faster Battle Preparations, Alternate Preparation, Focused Preparation, Augmentation Mastery, Debilitation Mastery, Targeted Mastery, Utility Mastery, Cautious Casting, Injured Casting, Raw Channeling, Efficient Channeling, Efficient Harnessing, Cautious Harnessing, Dedicated Cambrinth Use and Area Casting.
You have 3 spell slots available.
---
I never used AEWO before the latest magic changes, so thought I would try it out since I don't have ABAN anymore..and I quite enjoy AEWO for combat.Have you tried it recently? It seems to actually do what it is supposed to and really helps with multi-spawn on you. I haven't used DALU much yet, but would figure it does a lot of the same things as AEWO. I took ALB because I have always used it in the past, and I think it was a pre-req for something else. :)
DMRS is a great spell to have, although I only use it here and there. I always thought of it as an "oh crap!" type of spell to get out of tight spots.
For practice and in general I like to have ECRY, DRUM, REPR, HARMONY (a big help with at-level hunting), and RAGE (probably my favorite Bard spell).
BOS is ok, I tried it for a while and I don't was optimizing it correctly, as it barely hit critters and I wasn't learning TM like I used to with ABAN.
I skipped PYRE for now, but will grab it once I have the points.
DEMA is solid.
Cyclic - I always have EYE. GJ, or HODI up. Or FAE for teaching.
I never use CARE (pre-req), and of course WOTM is for crafting.
In the chapter entitled "Fae Arts", you have notes on the Aether Wolves [aewo], Blessing of the Fae [botf], Eye of Kertigen [eye], and Glythtide's Joy [gj] spells.
In the chapter entitled "Emotion Control", you have notes on the Albreda's Balm [alb], Damaris' Lullaby [dalu], Whispers of the Muse [wotm], Faenella's Grace [fae], Rage of the Clans [rage], and Redeemer's Pride [repr] spells.
In the chapter entitled "Sound Manipulation", you have notes on the Demrris' Resolve [dmrs], Drums of the Snake [drum], Eillie's Cry [ecry], Harmony, and Hodierna's Lilt [hodi] spells.
In the chapter entitled "Elemental Invocations", you have notes on the Breath of Storms [bos], Caress of the Sun [care], and Desert's Maelstrom [dema] spells.
You recall proficiency with the magic feats of Legerdemain, Basic Preparation Recognition, Faster Targeting, Faster Battle Preparations, Alternate Preparation, Focused Preparation, Augmentation Mastery, Debilitation Mastery, Targeted Mastery, Utility Mastery, Cautious Casting, Injured Casting, Raw Channeling, Efficient Channeling, Efficient Harnessing, Cautious Harnessing, Dedicated Cambrinth Use and Area Casting.
You have 3 spell slots available.
---
I never used AEWO before the latest magic changes, so thought I would try it out since I don't have ABAN anymore..and I quite enjoy AEWO for combat.Have you tried it recently? It seems to actually do what it is supposed to and really helps with multi-spawn on you. I haven't used DALU much yet, but would figure it does a lot of the same things as AEWO. I took ALB because I have always used it in the past, and I think it was a pre-req for something else. :)
DMRS is a great spell to have, although I only use it here and there. I always thought of it as an "oh crap!" type of spell to get out of tight spots.
For practice and in general I like to have ECRY, DRUM, REPR, HARMONY (a big help with at-level hunting), and RAGE (probably my favorite Bard spell).
BOS is ok, I tried it for a while and I don't was optimizing it correctly, as it barely hit critters and I wasn't learning TM like I used to with ABAN.
I skipped PYRE for now, but will grab it once I have the points.
DEMA is solid.
Cyclic - I always have EYE. GJ, or HODI up. Or FAE for teaching.
I never use CARE (pre-req), and of course WOTM is for crafting.
>>With unlimited forgets, I'd currently drop DMRS, DEMA and AEWO with no plans to pick them up again.
Be aware that at the moment, you DO have unlimited forgets. You just have to travel to Fleintoore in the spell library in Throne City. This will be turned off eventually (or, most likely, set to limited forgets for a cost).
>>Early on, not having access to a useful Ward or a useful self buff is a bit rough,
Agreed. Bards are left without defensive buffs (save MAF) for a long time. It's possible some of the debilitations can help simply by keeping critters from hitting us, but in my experience these were pretty hard to get to also. DALU is expensive and higher up the tree, plus hard to use. AEWO might be helpful here -- I haven't tried it.
>>It is frustrating only picking a couple of spells for trainers (GJ, i'm looking at you!).
Agreed. It might be useful in PVP, but for PVE I much prefer Lay Ward, even though it only lasts a few minutes. I'd rather be able to use my cyclic for debilitation, TM, or Hodierna's Lilt. But this may change with the barrier review -- we'll see. Also, LW doesn't keep me from casting my own TM spells.
-- Player of Eyuve
Be aware that at the moment, you DO have unlimited forgets. You just have to travel to Fleintoore in the spell library in Throne City. This will be turned off eventually (or, most likely, set to limited forgets for a cost).
>>Early on, not having access to a useful Ward or a useful self buff is a bit rough,
Agreed. Bards are left without defensive buffs (save MAF) for a long time. It's possible some of the debilitations can help simply by keeping critters from hitting us, but in my experience these were pretty hard to get to also. DALU is expensive and higher up the tree, plus hard to use. AEWO might be helpful here -- I haven't tried it.
>>It is frustrating only picking a couple of spells for trainers (GJ, i'm looking at you!).
Agreed. It might be useful in PVP, but for PVE I much prefer Lay Ward, even though it only lasts a few minutes. I'd rather be able to use my cyclic for debilitation, TM, or Hodierna's Lilt. But this may change with the barrier review -- we'll see. Also, LW doesn't keep me from casting my own TM spells.
-- Player of Eyuve
>Be aware that at the moment, you DO have unlimited forgets. You just have to travel to Fleintoore in the spell library in Throne City. This will be turned off eventually (or, most likely, set to limited forgets for a cost).
Heh, yeah, I admittedly figured this out after I posted, so, hurray!
>It might be useful in PVP, but for PVE I much prefer Lay Ward, even though it only lasts a few minutes.
I almost feel GJ and Name should have their places on the spelltree swapped. Physical barriers have a much wider application, especially to younger characters than an outgoing TM integrity barrier does. Before 200 or so combats, the only critters I can think of that utilize TM are goblin shaman, who are hilariously weak... Am I missing anything? None of my progressions up to gryphons have included a casting critter.
>AEWO was a great spell before I had ABAN available
With both DALU and AEWO, I wasn't using AEWO at all. Is there something about it's functionality I was missing?
Heh, yeah, I admittedly figured this out after I posted, so, hurray!
>It might be useful in PVP, but for PVE I much prefer Lay Ward, even though it only lasts a few minutes.
I almost feel GJ and Name should have their places on the spelltree swapped. Physical barriers have a much wider application, especially to younger characters than an outgoing TM integrity barrier does. Before 200 or so combats, the only critters I can think of that utilize TM are goblin shaman, who are hilariously weak... Am I missing anything? None of my progressions up to gryphons have included a casting critter.
>AEWO was a great spell before I had ABAN available
With both DALU and AEWO, I wasn't using AEWO at all. Is there something about it's functionality I was missing?
Regarding Pyre and the 40th circle bard:
With the Targeting Mastery feat, you should be able to start using Pyre somewhere between 150-175 target, depending upon your primary magic skill and how your head was tilted when you got out of bed that day, perhaps other things, too. I know people who could use it below 150, but they had a lot more PM than a 40th circle bard would these days. Without the feat or extra PM (and whatever else factors into it) Pyre is an Esoteric spell and requires 200 in target.
Find a good bard teacher every moment you are out of combat, cast many BOS spells when you are in combat, and you'll be able to get a Pyre off in no time.
I totally feel your pain, I had no target when I returned and had to back train it from the beginning.
~D
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~Dreamheart Delaevan Forestwolf
Singing since before the Guild was restored.
With the Targeting Mastery feat, you should be able to start using Pyre somewhere between 150-175 target, depending upon your primary magic skill and how your head was tilted when you got out of bed that day, perhaps other things, too. I know people who could use it below 150, but they had a lot more PM than a 40th circle bard would these days. Without the feat or extra PM (and whatever else factors into it) Pyre is an Esoteric spell and requires 200 in target.
Find a good bard teacher every moment you are out of combat, cast many BOS spells when you are in combat, and you'll be able to get a Pyre off in no time.
I totally feel your pain, I had no target when I returned and had to back train it from the beginning.
~D
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~Dreamheart Delaevan Forestwolf
Singing since before the Guild was restored.
My experience is that PYRE teaches well... however I use it almost exclusively with the WILL ritual active and I have the TM mastery feat, so this may make the difference. I've noticed it tends to stop teaching about [17/34], but a quick re-cast gets it moving again. If you're able, alternate with ABAN. Both teach a lot better when facing multiple critters (3+).
I pair PYRE with my primary weapon (SE) and tactics, and ABAN with my secondary (brawling), and can get all locked up pretty quickly - 30 minutes hunting at level.
Something I noticed too, is that PYRE would hit well with RAGE up, but not without it. I have asked around about the interaction between RAGE and TM, but no one has been able to give me a good answer.
Az
Azkaban UiNeill, Bard of Therengia, an Elf
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Azkaban
Letting it all hang out, since 312.
I pair PYRE with my primary weapon (SE) and tactics, and ABAN with my secondary (brawling), and can get all locked up pretty quickly - 30 minutes hunting at level.
Something I noticed too, is that PYRE would hit well with RAGE up, but not without it. I have asked around about the interaction between RAGE and TM, but no one has been able to give me a good answer.
Az
Azkaban UiNeill, Bard of Therengia, an Elf
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Azkaban
Letting it all hang out, since 312.
<<I've noticed it tends to stop teaching about [17/34], but a quick re-cast gets it moving again.
This doesn't seem right. It shouldn't be operating on the experience model that Augmentation, Utility, and Warding cyclics use where you have to restart it to learn again.
<<Something I noticed too, is that PYRE would hit well with RAGE up, but not without it. I have asked around about the interaction between RAGE and TM, but no one has been able to give me a good answer.
Possible explanations:
-Subjective observation making it 'feel' like you're doing more with RAGE up.
-RAGE causes your normal weapon attacks to dish out more damage which reduces your target's vitality faster thereby increasing the output of all sources of damage because of the lack of vitality damage reduction buffer.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
This doesn't seem right. It shouldn't be operating on the experience model that Augmentation, Utility, and Warding cyclics use where you have to restart it to learn again.
<<Something I noticed too, is that PYRE would hit well with RAGE up, but not without it. I have asked around about the interaction between RAGE and TM, but no one has been able to give me a good answer.
Possible explanations:
-Subjective observation making it 'feel' like you're doing more with RAGE up.
-RAGE causes your normal weapon attacks to dish out more damage which reduces your target's vitality faster thereby increasing the output of all sources of damage because of the lack of vitality damage reduction buffer.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Thanks for weighing in.
You know when you're 'fairly certain' of something, right up until someone questions you. I'll go and see if I can replicate... for my own sanity.
And the interaction is definitely not subjective:
With RAGE up, the air and water combo hits them, and when it comes down (or I take it down), the critters manage to stay away from the admixture. All other variables remain the same. And the effect is independent of swinging a weapon.
It's true that PYRE seems to land harder hits the greater vitality loss the critter has.
Az
Azkaban UiNeill, Bard of Therengia, an Elf
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Azkaban
Letting it all hang out, since 312.
You know when you're 'fairly certain' of something, right up until someone questions you. I'll go and see if I can replicate... for my own sanity.
And the interaction is definitely not subjective:
With RAGE up, the air and water combo hits them, and when it comes down (or I take it down), the critters manage to stay away from the admixture. All other variables remain the same. And the effect is independent of swinging a weapon.
It's true that PYRE seems to land harder hits the greater vitality loss the critter has.
Az
Azkaban UiNeill, Bard of Therengia, an Elf
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Azkaban
Letting it all hang out, since 312.
<<With RAGE up, the air and water combo hits them, and when it comes down (or I take it down), the critters manage to stay away from the admixture. All other variables remain the same. And the effect is independent of swinging a weapon.
I guess the bonus to melee and ranged accuracy that Rage provides includes TM attacks in the definition of ranged accuracy then.
Note that this buff is different entirely than what Rage used to provide back when it was an enchante, which was a straight up skill boost to all weapon skills.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
I guess the bonus to melee and ranged accuracy that Rage provides includes TM attacks in the definition of ranged accuracy then.
Note that this buff is different entirely than what Rage used to provide back when it was an enchante, which was a straight up skill boost to all weapon skills.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
>I guess the bonus to melee and ranged accuracy that Rage provides includes TM attacks in the definition of ranged accuracy then.
Yeah, I concluded the same thing. This is great, if it is indeed the case. Us 'late to TM' Bards can use all the help we can get.
Az
Azkaban UiNeill, Bard of Therengia, an Elf
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Azkaban
Letting it all hang out, since 312.
Yeah, I concluded the same thing. This is great, if it is indeed the case. Us 'late to TM' Bards can use all the help we can get.
Az
Azkaban UiNeill, Bard of Therengia, an Elf
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Azkaban
Letting it all hang out, since 312.
> I've heard from a few sources that PYRE doesn't teach very well for how hard it hits? Any word on that?
Pyre kills awesome, teaches terrible. I use Fireball to learn target.
Aban is a little better, but still doesn't teach well compared to the results.
I'm casting both as pretty much the bleeding edge of my ability.
I did not think the whole spell learning being nerfed applied to combat spells, but I guess it did.
~D
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~Dreamheart Delaevan Forestwolf
Singing since before the Guild was restored.
Pyre kills awesome, teaches terrible. I use Fireball to learn target.
Aban is a little better, but still doesn't teach well compared to the results.
I'm casting both as pretty much the bleeding edge of my ability.
I did not think the whole spell learning being nerfed applied to combat spells, but I guess it did.
~D
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~Dreamheart Delaevan Forestwolf
Singing since before the Guild was restored.
