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I'm curious how other Bards feel about the name of our unique skill: Bardic Lore. I look at what the other guilds have - Asceticism, Empathy, Thanatology - and I feel like ours is basically called "The Bard Skill." Which I totally get, because what the hell do you call it? Hard to distill into a single term, and the best term I know for what BL is (as I understand it) would be Grok, and that's not really period appropriate.
I'm thinking that if we all put our minds together though, we might be able to come up with some sort of better name. Anyone have any thoughts?
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
I wanted Ontology during an earlier design discussion.
Seriously though, we're open to renaming the skill but that's a conversation that will need to take place when we're more actively working on fleshing it out. It's not much different than the conversations we've had regarding Paladins and how 'Endurance' doesn't really capture what we want it to as far as what their guild skill should be doing.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Seriously though, we're open to renaming the skill but that's a conversation that will need to take place when we're more actively working on fleshing it out. It's not much different than the conversations we've had regarding Paladins and how 'Endurance' doesn't really capture what we want it to as far as what their guild skill should be doing.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
>> but that's a conversation that will need to take place when we're more actively working on fleshing it out.
I suppose I can see that point, but as I understand it, Bardic Lore is intended to be "understanding history so intimately that you can almost feel a part of it," which is why grok came to mind.
My idea for Mnemosis/Mnemosism was obviously related to mnemonics, which has to do with memory, and has the added bonus of relating to Mnemosyne (Greek mythology) who was deeply connected with the muses and music. Obviously Greek mythology has no in-game application, but the connection seemed appropriate to me.
I also like Ontology, but not quite as much as Mnemosis. It might be a more accurate word, but I don't like it as much.
Synesthesia is cool. Maybe Synesthism? Or Synthesis?
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
I suppose I can see that point, but as I understand it, Bardic Lore is intended to be "understanding history so intimately that you can almost feel a part of it," which is why grok came to mind.
My idea for Mnemosis/Mnemosism was obviously related to mnemonics, which has to do with memory, and has the added bonus of relating to Mnemosyne (Greek mythology) who was deeply connected with the muses and music. Obviously Greek mythology has no in-game application, but the connection seemed appropriate to me.
I also like Ontology, but not quite as much as Mnemosis. It might be a more accurate word, but I don't like it as much.
Synesthesia is cool. Maybe Synesthism? Or Synthesis?
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
I agree that I'd like a cooler/more interesting name for it.
The main problem I see is that we seem to have three different types of abilities:
- Memory -- e.g. Evoke
- Sound -- e.g. Screams (though these might all convert to spells)
- Morale -- e.g. Lionize/Satirize, potential Tactics or group-based abilities
From way back in the old thread about the Bardic Lore name, I liked the suggestion of "Resonance" because it worked well with both Sound and Memory (though not really with Morale). Now that it seems we may end up with just Memory and Morale, I'm not really sure what to suggest. I like Mnemosis for Memory. I confess I have no idea how Ontology (the nature of being) fits, nor Synesthesia (producing additional/alternate senses), but I'd love to hear explanations.
The main problem I see is that we seem to have three different types of abilities:
- Memory -- e.g. Evoke
- Sound -- e.g. Screams (though these might all convert to spells)
- Morale -- e.g. Lionize/Satirize, potential Tactics or group-based abilities
From way back in the old thread about the Bardic Lore name, I liked the suggestion of "Resonance" because it worked well with both Sound and Memory (though not really with Morale). Now that it seems we may end up with just Memory and Morale, I'm not really sure what to suggest. I like Mnemosis for Memory. I confess I have no idea how Ontology (the nature of being) fits, nor Synesthesia (producing additional/alternate senses), but I'd love to hear explanations.
<<> Now that it seems we may end up with just Memory and Morale, I'm not really sure what to suggest.
Resonance still works. Morale can be gained and lost by resonating with a person's thoughts and feelings, positive or negative.
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Resonance still works. Morale can be gained and lost by resonating with a person's thoughts and feelings, positive or negative.
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>> From way back in the old thread about the Bardic Lore name, I liked the suggestion of "Resonance" because it worked well with both Sound and Memory (though not really with Morale). Now that it seems we may end up with just Memory and Morale, I'm not really sure what to suggest. I like Mnemosis for Memory. I confess I have no idea how Ontology (the nature of being) fits, nor Synesthesia (producing additional/alternate senses), but I'd love to hear explanations.
I really do like Resonance. Like you said, it's great for memory and sound, and like was added by someone else, it can certainly work for morale as well. As much as I prefer the sound of Mnemosis, I have to say that Resonance really does hit the nail (as I understand it) on the head. I'd be glad to be training Resonance rather than Bard Lore.
Ontology fits because it's all about the nature of knowledge, and that's kind of the core of Bard Lore (again, as I understand it). From a technical standpoint, it's a perfect description for a skill that is based on the idea of knowing things. It is, however, just an unattractive word; being accurate from a technical standpoint is only half of game design, and the other half is making it pretty. "Ontology" isn't pretty, no matter how apt it is. And, honestly, I don't even think it's as accurate as Resonance.
I think (sorry if I'm wrong) that Synethesia was actually a joke. I get where it comes from, though. It relates to the senses, and I can kind of see how it might connect to the way that Evoke can result in sort of visions? Not sure, though. Either way, it gave me the idea for Synthesis, which I think has a good deal of accuracy given that it's about connecting the past to the present and such, but again, it isn't nearly as good as Resonance.
My vote is for Resonance. I want it.
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
I really do like Resonance. Like you said, it's great for memory and sound, and like was added by someone else, it can certainly work for morale as well. As much as I prefer the sound of Mnemosis, I have to say that Resonance really does hit the nail (as I understand it) on the head. I'd be glad to be training Resonance rather than Bard Lore.
Ontology fits because it's all about the nature of knowledge, and that's kind of the core of Bard Lore (again, as I understand it). From a technical standpoint, it's a perfect description for a skill that is based on the idea of knowing things. It is, however, just an unattractive word; being accurate from a technical standpoint is only half of game design, and the other half is making it pretty. "Ontology" isn't pretty, no matter how apt it is. And, honestly, I don't even think it's as accurate as Resonance.
I think (sorry if I'm wrong) that Synethesia was actually a joke. I get where it comes from, though. It relates to the senses, and I can kind of see how it might connect to the way that Evoke can result in sort of visions? Not sure, though. Either way, it gave me the idea for Synthesis, which I think has a good deal of accuracy given that it's about connecting the past to the present and such, but again, it isn't nearly as good as Resonance.
My vote is for Resonance. I want it.
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
>>I think (sorry if I'm wrong) that Synethesia was actually a joke. I get where it comes from, though. It relates to the senses, and I can kind of see how it might connect to the way that Evoke can result in sort of visions? Not sure, though.
I was semi-serious when suggesting it.
Part of why I was thinking it might work is because, despite "seeing" mana arguably being a type of synesthesia as a whole, it's pretty interesting that Bards are unique by the fact that the "hear" it, instead. I think it also gives an interesting interpretation of what happens when a Bard evokes something. In the end, it helps sell the idea that Bards are innately unique in the way they view things. There's also a bit of RL history with people who have synesthesia using it to express art in ways that other people wouldn't be able to express them. That could be translated in DR to justifying why a Bard giving a rallying cry in a certain way has some kind of innate power that a non-Bard wouldn't be able to give.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I was semi-serious when suggesting it.
Part of why I was thinking it might work is because, despite "seeing" mana arguably being a type of synesthesia as a whole, it's pretty interesting that Bards are unique by the fact that the "hear" it, instead. I think it also gives an interesting interpretation of what happens when a Bard evokes something. In the end, it helps sell the idea that Bards are innately unique in the way they view things. There's also a bit of RL history with people who have synesthesia using it to express art in ways that other people wouldn't be able to express them. That could be translated in DR to justifying why a Bard giving a rallying cry in a certain way has some kind of innate power that a non-Bard wouldn't be able to give.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>>Ontology fits because it's all about the nature of knowledge,
Ontology is about the nature of being. Epistemology is about the nature of knowledge. I can kind of see what you mean about Bards being about the nature of knowledge, though.
>>My vote is for Resonance. I want it.
Ha. I do like it too. It certainly sounds Bardic and does fit with Memory.
>>Resonance still works. Morale can be gained and lost by resonating with a person's thoughts and feelings, positive or negative.
I suppose if we expand the definition to include the idea that Resonance involves influence over consonance or dissonance (sweetness vs. harshness of sounds), we might say that it involves bringing people "into consonance" with themselves or with others, or into dissonance. Or something like creating harmony or disharmony.
Harmony is a name that I like for the Morale aspect as well, in terms of bringing people into harmony. If we conceptualize Evoke as bringing the Past into some kind of harmony with the Present, perhaps it could work for Memory too. Just brainstorming.
Ontology is about the nature of being. Epistemology is about the nature of knowledge. I can kind of see what you mean about Bards being about the nature of knowledge, though.
>>My vote is for Resonance. I want it.
Ha. I do like it too. It certainly sounds Bardic and does fit with Memory.
>>Resonance still works. Morale can be gained and lost by resonating with a person's thoughts and feelings, positive or negative.
I suppose if we expand the definition to include the idea that Resonance involves influence over consonance or dissonance (sweetness vs. harshness of sounds), we might say that it involves bringing people "into consonance" with themselves or with others, or into dissonance. Or something like creating harmony or disharmony.
Harmony is a name that I like for the Morale aspect as well, in terms of bringing people into harmony. If we conceptualize Evoke as bringing the Past into some kind of harmony with the Present, perhaps it could work for Memory too. Just brainstorming.
>> Ontology is about the nature of being. Epistemology is about the nature of knowledge. I can kind of see what you mean about Bards being about the nature of knowledge, though.
Totally right. Got them mixed up.
>> Harmony is a name that I like for the Morale aspect as well, in terms of bringing people into harmony. If we conceptualize Evoke as bringing the Past into some kind of harmony with the Present, perhaps it could work for Memory too. Just brainstorming.
I'd prefer to have Harmony replace the term "Bard Mojo."
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
Totally right. Got them mixed up.
>> Harmony is a name that I like for the Morale aspect as well, in terms of bringing people into harmony. If we conceptualize Evoke as bringing the Past into some kind of harmony with the Present, perhaps it could work for Memory too. Just brainstorming.
I'd prefer to have Harmony replace the term "Bard Mojo."
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
>>I'd prefer to have Harmony replace the term "Bard Mojo."
The plan (last I heard) is for "mojo" to be replaced with Inspiration and Presence. Sort of like the Paladin's soul pool/soul state system, the two would be related but not identical. Presence is the Bard's connection to society, which changes slowly and with effort. The amount of Presence affects the size and regen rate of the Bard's Inspiration, which is a pool used for actually feeding the Bardic Lore abilities.
The plan (last I heard) is for "mojo" to be replaced with Inspiration and Presence. Sort of like the Paladin's soul pool/soul state system, the two would be related but not identical. Presence is the Bard's connection to society, which changes slowly and with effort. The amount of Presence affects the size and regen rate of the Bard's Inspiration, which is a pool used for actually feeding the Bardic Lore abilities.
> Or Ingenuity.
I like that. In the sense of brainstorming, here are a few more (skill name, mojo name):
1. Harmony / Resonance. (someone else suggested it, but I like it)
2. Creativity or ingenuity / Cunning or drive.
3. Allurement or prestidigitation / Presence.
4. Bardic lore(I honestly don't think it's bad) / Ingenuity (but I hate the word mojo for some reason).
Technically I'm still the Interim Bard Advocate (That title sure has stuck around a long time...), but guild development is more of a design by committee these days than a specific GM watching over a specific guild. So you've already gotten the Bard Advocate's thoughts on this. To reiterate:
>>A) Does anyone not like Resonance for the skill name?
I'm not a huge fan.
>>2) Can we get an opinion from him or her?
I'm not interested in burning a lot of calories naming the skill because it's putting the cart before the horse.
Bardic Lore needs a proper identity and development. Will that look anything like the plan from a few years ago? Maybe, maybe not. Once we've defined what the skill is actually suppose to do and represent, then we can worry about naming it.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
>>A) Does anyone not like Resonance for the skill name?
I'm not a huge fan.
>>2) Can we get an opinion from him or her?
I'm not interested in burning a lot of calories naming the skill because it's putting the cart before the horse.
Bardic Lore needs a proper identity and development. Will that look anything like the plan from a few years ago? Maybe, maybe not. Once we've defined what the skill is actually suppose to do and represent, then we can worry about naming it.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
>Bardic Lore needs a proper identity and development. Will that look anything like the plan from a few years ago? Maybe, maybe not. Once we've defined what the skill is actually suppose to do and represent, then we can worry about naming it.
100% this.
Without knowing the scope of what the skill is going to be like, it's like naming it Rodolfo when it's a Juliette, so to speak.
~Evike
100% this.
Without knowing the scope of what the skill is going to be like, it's like naming it Rodolfo when it's a Juliette, so to speak.
~Evike
>> Bardic Lore needs a proper identity and development. Will that look anything like the plan from a few years ago? Maybe, maybe not. Once we've defined what the skill is actually suppose to do and represent, then we can worry about naming it.
Cool. Thanks very much.
Out of curiosity, could we get a general idea of when that might be?
NOT SOON>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SOON>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>VERY SOON
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
Cool. Thanks very much.
Out of curiosity, could we get a general idea of when that might be?
NOT SOON>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SOON>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>VERY SOON
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
> "After Traders and Paladins, roughly tied with Rangers" assuming development priorities don't shift before then.
Tied with rangers, eh?
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/55934364.jpg
(love the work you guys do - humor only - don't stop!)
