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So I'm trying to work out a game plan for what to prioritize and what to train for a Bard. Your mileage may vary but here's my overall impression and I welcome feedback. Trying to develop the game plan for updating an old Bard character, but projecting out for some time to come.
1- Charisma. Most important overall for Charm (Aether Wolves, Albreda's Balm, Damaris' Lullaby, Glythtide's Joy, and Misdirection) plus Bardic abilities (Screams, etc).
2- Discipline. Secondary for Charm (see above), Secondary for Mind (DMRS, see below), Tertiary for Magic (DEMA, see below), plus Bardic abilities (Screams, etc).
3? 4?- Stamina. Bardic abilities (Screams, etc).
3? 4?- Intelligence. Primary for Mind (DMRS, fine spell?), Tertiary for Charm (see above), Secondary for Magic (DEMA, see below). Pool size.
5- Wisdom. Primary for Magic (Desert's Maelstrom, IIRC this isn't a good spell to pick anyway.), Tertiary for Mind (DMRS, see above). Experience pulse.
Reflexes. No Bard specific issue?
Agility. No Bard specific issue?
Strength. No Bard specific issue?
Especially for the latter three, I'm questioning the point of training them forever once you hit the point of diminishing returns. But what is that?
So you make some good points, but there are a few areas where I'd like to add some comments.
>>3? 4?- Stamina. Bardic abilities (Screams, etc).
I wasn't aware of screams relying on Stamina. Where are you getting this info?
In general, in my opinion, Stamina is one of the least important stats to train as a higher circle Bard (though get it up to 25ish crazy fast if you're a noob). It does affect your vitality and fatigue, but we happen to have a spell that helps those immensely (Hodi) plus easy access to Zephyr runes. Also, I've never really seen any big benefits from increasing vitality/fatigue that much. Once you get to a certain point, you can swing your weapons easily. Don't stop training it, but I'd say it can be a lower stat.
>>Especially for the latter three (Ref, Agi, Str), I'm questioning the point of training them forever once you hit the point of diminishing returns. But what is that?
Just as a note, but Reflexes is perhaps the most important combat stat, having a huge impact on your defenses. Agility and Strength are of course needed for more DPS, and Strength helps with Shield. Also, I seem to recall from LONG ago (so take this with a grain of salt) that Agility affects your ability to perform with instruments. Thus overall, I find these three stats to be pretty highly important, even if you're focusing more on magic, as it seems you are.
Although it should be noted that Ref and Agi can both be boosted by Bard spells, so you could theoretically let them dip a little lower. But DEFINITELY keep training them forever, even if you let them lag a little. In fact, I think no stat should ever lag more than, say, 20 points behind another.
Overall, my personal list of important Bard stats might go something like this:
Tier 1: Cha, Ref
Tier 2: Disc, Str, Agi
Tier 3: Int
Tier 4: Wis
Tier 6: Sta
If you really want to focus more on magic, you could swap Int for Str/Agi.
- Navesi
>>3? 4?- Stamina. Bardic abilities (Screams, etc).
I wasn't aware of screams relying on Stamina. Where are you getting this info?
In general, in my opinion, Stamina is one of the least important stats to train as a higher circle Bard (though get it up to 25ish crazy fast if you're a noob). It does affect your vitality and fatigue, but we happen to have a spell that helps those immensely (Hodi) plus easy access to Zephyr runes. Also, I've never really seen any big benefits from increasing vitality/fatigue that much. Once you get to a certain point, you can swing your weapons easily. Don't stop training it, but I'd say it can be a lower stat.
>>Especially for the latter three (Ref, Agi, Str), I'm questioning the point of training them forever once you hit the point of diminishing returns. But what is that?
Just as a note, but Reflexes is perhaps the most important combat stat, having a huge impact on your defenses. Agility and Strength are of course needed for more DPS, and Strength helps with Shield. Also, I seem to recall from LONG ago (so take this with a grain of salt) that Agility affects your ability to perform with instruments. Thus overall, I find these three stats to be pretty highly important, even if you're focusing more on magic, as it seems you are.
Although it should be noted that Ref and Agi can both be boosted by Bard spells, so you could theoretically let them dip a little lower. But DEFINITELY keep training them forever, even if you let them lag a little. In fact, I think no stat should ever lag more than, say, 20 points behind another.
Overall, my personal list of important Bard stats might go something like this:
Tier 1: Cha, Ref
Tier 2: Disc, Str, Agi
Tier 3: Int
Tier 4: Wis
Tier 6: Sta
If you really want to focus more on magic, you could swap Int for Str/Agi.
- Navesi
Even on my bard, charisma is my lowest skill. You can increase the mana in a contested spell to balance out low stats, and charisma is just so hats off useless that I'd rather burn more mana and have more...anything else.
My training routine usually goes Stamina/strength to 20 ASAP, then discipline, then reflex/agility, then intel/wisdom. Then charisma to 15. Repeat for 25 and then 30, with charisma usually staying at 20. Once I get everything to 30 I branch out for any guild specific training issues (like a thief wants more discipline because their khri are powered by concentration).
My training routine usually goes Stamina/strength to 20 ASAP, then discipline, then reflex/agility, then intel/wisdom. Then charisma to 15. Repeat for 25 and then 30, with charisma usually staying at 20. Once I get everything to 30 I branch out for any guild specific training issues (like a thief wants more discipline because their khri are powered by concentration).
>>3? 4?- Stamina. Bardic abilities (Screams, etc).
>>I wasn't aware of screams relying on Stamina. Where are you getting this info?
This 2011 log with Raesh.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:Bard_Teaching_031411_Log_-_3/15/2011_-_00:43:00
>>In general, in my opinion, Stamina is one of the least important stats to train as a higher circle Bard (though get it up to 25ish crazy fast if you're a noob). It does affect your vitality and fatigue, but we happen to have a spell that helps those immensely (Hodi) plus easy access to Zephyr runes. Also, I've never really seen any big benefits from increasing vitality/fatigue that much. Once you get to a certain point, you can swing your weapons easily. Don't stop training it, but I'd say it can be a lower stat.
While it plays a role in reducing Encumbrance, is the issue you'd rather be investing in Strength for the combat benefits too? I'd guess that as Armor tertiary and mixing armors for TDPs, a Bard would struggle with Encumbrance and want to keep an eye out on that.
>>Just as a note, but Reflexes is perhaps the most important combat stat, having a huge impact on your defenses. Agility and Strength are of course needed for more DPS, and Strength helps with Shield. Also, I seem to recall from LONG ago (so take this with a grain of salt) that Agility affects your ability to perform with instruments. Thus overall, I find these three stats to be pretty highly important, even if you're focusing more on magic, as it seems you are.
Yeah, Agility does impact Performance (or used to) but until there's an overall system like busking in place it seems like Performance is just an annoying side requirement. I am focused more on magic, but defenses are important.
>>Tier 1: Cha, Ref
>>Tier 2: Disc, Str, Agi
>>Tier 3: Int
>>Tier 4: Wis
>>Tier 6: Sta
Now for this, what do you think about the role of Wisdom and Intelligence in experience? Reflexes, Strength, and Agility play a role in combat, but if I'm also trying to maximize a smooth experience gain I don't want to have Wisdom and Intelligence too low.
I'm updating an old character, right now I'm Circle 80-ish and:
Discipline: 43
Charisma: 42
Wisdom: 40
Intelligence: 40
Stamina: 39
Reflex: 38
Strength: 35
Agility: 35
>>I wasn't aware of screams relying on Stamina. Where are you getting this info?
This 2011 log with Raesh.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:Bard_Teaching_031411_Log_-_3/15/2011_-_00:43:00
>>In general, in my opinion, Stamina is one of the least important stats to train as a higher circle Bard (though get it up to 25ish crazy fast if you're a noob). It does affect your vitality and fatigue, but we happen to have a spell that helps those immensely (Hodi) plus easy access to Zephyr runes. Also, I've never really seen any big benefits from increasing vitality/fatigue that much. Once you get to a certain point, you can swing your weapons easily. Don't stop training it, but I'd say it can be a lower stat.
While it plays a role in reducing Encumbrance, is the issue you'd rather be investing in Strength for the combat benefits too? I'd guess that as Armor tertiary and mixing armors for TDPs, a Bard would struggle with Encumbrance and want to keep an eye out on that.
>>Just as a note, but Reflexes is perhaps the most important combat stat, having a huge impact on your defenses. Agility and Strength are of course needed for more DPS, and Strength helps with Shield. Also, I seem to recall from LONG ago (so take this with a grain of salt) that Agility affects your ability to perform with instruments. Thus overall, I find these three stats to be pretty highly important, even if you're focusing more on magic, as it seems you are.
Yeah, Agility does impact Performance (or used to) but until there's an overall system like busking in place it seems like Performance is just an annoying side requirement. I am focused more on magic, but defenses are important.
>>Tier 1: Cha, Ref
>>Tier 2: Disc, Str, Agi
>>Tier 3: Int
>>Tier 4: Wis
>>Tier 6: Sta
Now for this, what do you think about the role of Wisdom and Intelligence in experience? Reflexes, Strength, and Agility play a role in combat, but if I'm also trying to maximize a smooth experience gain I don't want to have Wisdom and Intelligence too low.
I'm updating an old character, right now I'm Circle 80-ish and:
Discipline: 43
Charisma: 42
Wisdom: 40
Intelligence: 40
Stamina: 39
Reflex: 38
Strength: 35
Agility: 35
>>This 2011 log with Raesh.
That post is completely obsolete at this point. That was before 3.0 and since then Stamina has become much more important in combat. Even with 80 stamina on my Thief it's possible for him to tire out while using really heavy weapons. Stamina also determines vitality, and in 3.0 players have a vitality barrier to damage while it stays above 80-90% (not sure where you start taking damage now) so more stamina means you take less damage over time.
>>Now for this, what do you think about the role of Wisdom and Intelligence in experience? Reflexes, Strength, and Agility play a role in combat, but if I'm also trying to maximize a smooth experience gain I don't want to have Wisdom and Intelligence too low.
I would recommend just keeping your stats even.
That post is completely obsolete at this point. That was before 3.0 and since then Stamina has become much more important in combat. Even with 80 stamina on my Thief it's possible for him to tire out while using really heavy weapons. Stamina also determines vitality, and in 3.0 players have a vitality barrier to damage while it stays above 80-90% (not sure where you start taking damage now) so more stamina means you take less damage over time.
>>Now for this, what do you think about the role of Wisdom and Intelligence in experience? Reflexes, Strength, and Agility play a role in combat, but if I'm also trying to maximize a smooth experience gain I don't want to have Wisdom and Intelligence too low.
I would recommend just keeping your stats even.
>>I wasn't aware of screams relying on Stamina. Where are you getting this info?
Don''t know if this is still accurate but:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:Screams..._-_on_3/4/2009_-_7:08:49
Primary attribute that enhances screams is Charisma. Defenses will be enhanced by Discipline. Stamina will also aide both the aggressor and the defender.
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
Don''t know if this is still accurate but:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:Screams..._-_on_3/4/2009_-_7:08:49
Primary attribute that enhances screams is Charisma. Defenses will be enhanced by Discipline. Stamina will also aide both the aggressor and the defender.
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
>>Primary attribute that enhances screams is Charisma. Defenses will be enhanced by Discipline. Stamina will also aide both the aggressor and the defender.
I'm guessing this is also outdated since it refers to the old, Vocals-based screams.
>>Now for this, what do you think about the role of Wisdom and Intelligence in experience?
Personally, I think you should play an Elothean Ubermind if you want to play this character for years, or decades. Over that long of a stretch, you will surely benefit from high mentals. In my opinion though, the single greatest factor that plays into your skill ranks is the amount of time you invest, followed by how good you are at scripting. Plus, the diminishing returns of mentals seems to hit pretty early (30ish?). Ultimately, I don't worry about mentals for learning rates after that point.
>>That was before 3.0 and since then Stamina has become much more important in combat. Even with 80 stamina on my Thief it's possible for him to tire out while using really heavy weapons. Stamina also determines vitality, and in 3.0 players have a vitality barrier to damage while it stays above 80-90% (not sure where you start taking damage now) so more stamina means you take less damage over time.
This is a very good point and something to strongly consider. All I can say is that, for ME, I have had no issues with weapon fatigue in a long while, plus HODI does a great job mitigating both this problem and the vitality barrier issue.
- Navesi
I'm guessing this is also outdated since it refers to the old, Vocals-based screams.
>>Now for this, what do you think about the role of Wisdom and Intelligence in experience?
Personally, I think you should play an Elothean Ubermind if you want to play this character for years, or decades. Over that long of a stretch, you will surely benefit from high mentals. In my opinion though, the single greatest factor that plays into your skill ranks is the amount of time you invest, followed by how good you are at scripting. Plus, the diminishing returns of mentals seems to hit pretty early (30ish?). Ultimately, I don't worry about mentals for learning rates after that point.
>>That was before 3.0 and since then Stamina has become much more important in combat. Even with 80 stamina on my Thief it's possible for him to tire out while using really heavy weapons. Stamina also determines vitality, and in 3.0 players have a vitality barrier to damage while it stays above 80-90% (not sure where you start taking damage now) so more stamina means you take less damage over time.
This is a very good point and something to strongly consider. All I can say is that, for ME, I have had no issues with weapon fatigue in a long while, plus HODI does a great job mitigating both this problem and the vitality barrier issue.
- Navesi
