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Posted this somewhere else, then realized it should probably be here. Does anyone know why the Monk title is gone? or is it just moved to something different? I'd like to have it back if its really gone now.
Personally, MM being monks never made sense to me (fought this battle before so not getting into here, promise). But I don't understand how they can have a title involving monk-ish and we can't. But we did get a lot of new and nifty titles, so I don't mind.
There will be options to pick from. There will rarely be a case where the NPC says, "Here is your sword, go have fun."
-Ssra
There will be options to pick from. There will rarely be a case where the NPC says, "Here is your sword, go have fun."
-Ssra
I have to agree with Skylira, in part. There is a deep history concerning the Monks of the Crystal Hand sect, and it would be possibly more upsetting for those sect members to now have 'of the Monks' as a title.
As a cleric, I'm more upset that I can't use my Priest title anymore, but it gives me a reason to train weapon again so I can earn Warrior Priest. When the announcement brags about 'over 1900 skill-based titles' it seems backwards to remove titles, especially one as popular as Monk seemed to be.
Thrall of Dergati,
Heroiklim Zortal...48 ranks of Heavy Edge to go.
As a cleric, I'm more upset that I can't use my Priest title anymore, but it gives me a reason to train weapon again so I can earn Warrior Priest. When the announcement brags about 'over 1900 skill-based titles' it seems backwards to remove titles, especially one as popular as Monk seemed to be.
Thrall of Dergati,
Heroiklim Zortal...48 ranks of Heavy Edge to go.
>>Visit the MM guild and read up on the sects.
I visited the MM guild once.
Got a buncha funny looks while I was removing the bricks from that bloody tower one by one.
Blasted moonie imps kept putting them back faster'n I could pull 'em out.
They ain't bright, but they sure got numbers.
-Deagol
I visited the MM guild once.
Got a buncha funny looks while I was removing the bricks from that bloody tower one by one.
Blasted moonie imps kept putting them back faster'n I could pull 'em out.
They ain't bright, but they sure got numbers.
-Deagol
>>Visit the MM guild and read up on the sects. It will make much more sense.
No, it doesn't. Like I said, had a long argument about it, and I don't think they qualify. I don't want to get into it again either, so I'll leave it at this: There is nothing you can say to me which has not been said which will convince me MM are 'monks'.
There will be options to pick from. There will rarely be a case where the NPC says, "Here is your sword, go have fun."
-Ssra
No, it doesn't. Like I said, had a long argument about it, and I don't think they qualify. I don't want to get into it again either, so I'll leave it at this: There is nothing you can say to me which has not been said which will convince me MM are 'monks'.
There will be options to pick from. There will rarely be a case where the NPC says, "Here is your sword, go have fun."
-Ssra
It makes as much sense for the Monks of the Crystal Hand to receive a Monk title as it does for clerics. Clerics should not get the post title "of the Monks", because they do not belong to an order named "Monks", but instead to a guild named "Clerics".
That said, it is my opinion that the Monks of the Crystal Hand should have their post title changed to "of the Crystal Hand".
The assumption that all clerics deserve to be called Monks is as faulty as the assumption that all MMs deserve it.
The basic problem with the MM guild is that they are defined as a hodgepodge of various astrology-based sects who gained solidarity in order to be formally recognized. The basic problem with the Cleric guild is most of their traditional roles and abilities have been parcelled out to other guilds long ago, making it difficult for development without stepping on toes.
That said, it is my opinion that the Monks of the Crystal Hand should have their post title changed to "of the Crystal Hand".
The assumption that all clerics deserve to be called Monks is as faulty as the assumption that all MMs deserve it.
The basic problem with the MM guild is that they are defined as a hodgepodge of various astrology-based sects who gained solidarity in order to be formally recognized. The basic problem with the Cleric guild is most of their traditional roles and abilities have been parcelled out to other guilds long ago, making it difficult for development without stepping on toes.
>>A monk is a person who practices monasticism, adopting a strict religious and ascetic lifestyle, usually in community with others following the same path.
>>Monasticism (from Greek: monachos?a solitary person) is the religious practice of renouncing all worldly pursuits in order to fully devote one's life to spiritual work.
How can you say that Clerics don't have a right to the monk title?
Strangeguard Prayermaster
You gesture at a sand sprite.
Its head soars through the air as its neck is entirely destroyed!
A sand sprite slowly falls to the ground, moaning in despair, shuddering in pain before taking her last breath.
>>Monasticism (from Greek: monachos?a solitary person) is the religious practice of renouncing all worldly pursuits in order to fully devote one's life to spiritual work.
How can you say that Clerics don't have a right to the monk title?
Strangeguard Prayermaster
You gesture at a sand sprite.
Its head soars through the air as its neck is entirely destroyed!
A sand sprite slowly falls to the ground, moaning in despair, shuddering in pain before taking her last breath.
Agreed Hero but what was said was "The assumption that all clerics deserve to be called Monks is as faulty as the assumption that all MMs deserve it."
I'll admit that I don't know anything about the Monks of the Crystal Hand but monks historically are religous figures and Clerics are religious, therefore we should get the Monk title back. I don't see why we Can't be monks and the them be of the monks. It's really not the same.
You see Strangeguard Prayermaster, Monk of Elanthia.
You see Strangeguard Prayermaster of the Monks.
Not sure if the second is exactly how it goes but you get the idea, it's completely different.
Strangeguard Prayermaster
You gesture at a sand sprite.
Its head soars through the air as its neck is entirely destroyed!
A sand sprite slowly falls to the ground, moaning in despair, shuddering in pain before taking her last breath.
I'll admit that I don't know anything about the Monks of the Crystal Hand but monks historically are religous figures and Clerics are religious, therefore we should get the Monk title back. I don't see why we Can't be monks and the them be of the monks. It's really not the same.
You see Strangeguard Prayermaster, Monk of Elanthia.
You see Strangeguard Prayermaster of the Monks.
Not sure if the second is exactly how it goes but you get the idea, it's completely different.
Strangeguard Prayermaster
You gesture at a sand sprite.
Its head soars through the air as its neck is entirely destroyed!
A sand sprite slowly falls to the ground, moaning in despair, shuddering in pain before taking her last breath.
Not all clerics are monks, but all monks are clerics.
In the definintion of 'monk' posted a few back, it included a religious reference. Personally, I feel Clerics are the only religious force in the realms. You can RP it however else you want, won't change my mind.
There will be options to pick from. There will rarely be a case where the NPC says, "Here is your sword, go have fun."
-Ssra
In the definintion of 'monk' posted a few back, it included a religious reference. Personally, I feel Clerics are the only religious force in the realms. You can RP it however else you want, won't change my mind.
There will be options to pick from. There will rarely be a case where the NPC says, "Here is your sword, go have fun."
-Ssra
<<Personally, I feel Clerics are the only religious force in the realms.>>
As much as I would like to be a homer and argue for this title to be cleric only, I do not feel clerics are the only relious force in the realms. The major force, yes, but not the only one.
Paladins come to mind. Dragon Priests come to mind. I don't know much about the Monks of the Crystal Hand, but if they are some kind of sect or cult devoted to some aspect of the gods, then I see no issue with it.
There are better battles to be fought than this one.
Lagerby
As much as I would like to be a homer and argue for this title to be cleric only, I do not feel clerics are the only relious force in the realms. The major force, yes, but not the only one.
Paladins come to mind. Dragon Priests come to mind. I don't know much about the Monks of the Crystal Hand, but if they are some kind of sect or cult devoted to some aspect of the gods, then I see no issue with it.
There are better battles to be fought than this one.
Lagerby
More than that, there's no reason one can't worship something other than gods, and be a monk. Regardless of the existence/nonexistance of whatever that monk might worship, he or she's still given his or her life for that worship...
Much like a Christian monk would look at a Buddhist monk, and wonder at their bright orange robes, and wonder why they don't worship Christ, the Buddhist monk looks at the Christian and wonders why they are so focused on some ephermeral god-figure...
I believe your perspective is certainly valid -IC-, but OOCly, there's more than enough justification for a non-Cleric to have the title monk...
So I asked this God a question
and by way of firm reply,
He said: "I'm not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays".
Much like a Christian monk would look at a Buddhist monk, and wonder at their bright orange robes, and wonder why they don't worship Christ, the Buddhist monk looks at the Christian and wonders why they are so focused on some ephermeral god-figure...
I believe your perspective is certainly valid -IC-, but OOCly, there's more than enough justification for a non-Cleric to have the title monk...
So I asked this God a question
and by way of firm reply,
He said: "I'm not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays".
Now, see, this's why I didn't wanna start in the first place, always ends up with everyone telling me I'm wrong, one way or another. And, like I said, that's fine. Doesn't change my mind. Just one of those things I've picked, and refuse to think otherwise on. Everybodies got 'em, thankfully mine's just in a text game, not RL.
There will be options to pick from. There will rarely be a case where the NPC says, "Here is your sword, go have fun."
-Ssra
There will be options to pick from. There will rarely be a case where the NPC says, "Here is your sword, go have fun."
-Ssra
Ucu, you have a valid point, and if being a monk meant being devoted to a 'religion' then I would agree with you. I have a couple of points, but I haven't thought this through completely so hopefully I won't contradict myself.
First, regarding clerics, a monk, by defintion, spends the bulk of their lives in a monastery. Substitue guild for monastery, since as far as I know there's only one actual monastery IG. Even then there's few clerics that fit this definition, and they sure as hell aren't going to circle very often if they spend the majority (95%+) of their time in the guild.
Second, in regard to the crystal hand, religion can be as simple as faith in a set of beliefs (no being, supernatural or otherwise, is required). The closest real life example of the Crystal Hand, in my opinion, is the Taoist monks. Taoism (Daoism) "refers to a power which envelops, surrounds and flows through all things, living and non-living. The Tao regulates natural processes and nourishes balance in the Universe. It embodies the harmony of opposites (i.e. there would be no love without hate, no light without dark, no male without female.)" The Monks of the Crystal Hand are more focused on the balance than the opposites end of the spectrum, but the final outcome is the same. Creating a balance within yourself in order to affect the world beyond. Taoists call this power Chi (Chinese for Air/Energy), not sure if there's a term for it with the Crystal Hand.
In conclusion, if Monk was strictly a religious term, I'd agree that only clerics should have it, but Monk can be a secular term as well as religious.
Thrall of Dergati,
Heroiklim Zortal... not a monk
First, regarding clerics, a monk, by defintion, spends the bulk of their lives in a monastery. Substitue guild for monastery, since as far as I know there's only one actual monastery IG. Even then there's few clerics that fit this definition, and they sure as hell aren't going to circle very often if they spend the majority (95%+) of their time in the guild.
Second, in regard to the crystal hand, religion can be as simple as faith in a set of beliefs (no being, supernatural or otherwise, is required). The closest real life example of the Crystal Hand, in my opinion, is the Taoist monks. Taoism (Daoism) "refers to a power which envelops, surrounds and flows through all things, living and non-living. The Tao regulates natural processes and nourishes balance in the Universe. It embodies the harmony of opposites (i.e. there would be no love without hate, no light without dark, no male without female.)" The Monks of the Crystal Hand are more focused on the balance than the opposites end of the spectrum, but the final outcome is the same. Creating a balance within yourself in order to affect the world beyond. Taoists call this power Chi (Chinese for Air/Energy), not sure if there's a term for it with the Crystal Hand.
In conclusion, if Monk was strictly a religious term, I'd agree that only clerics should have it, but Monk can be a secular term as well as religious.
Thrall of Dergati,
Heroiklim Zortal... not a monk
regardless of definition, let's just set up a little comparison....
You are Medic Rabee Fulconos, Roughneck of Elanthia, an Elf.
You are Monk Rabee Fulconos.
"1900" was implying you a.) being a moon mage and having astrology ranks, or being a thief and having backstab ranks (of a significant nature, of course, I even have one rank in backstab.)
But out of my "1900" choices, which one of those would hint to you that I am a cleric, or even a nice person. I can't even tend slight wounds on my chest. Medic is a little overrated.
The cleric formerly known as Monk Rabee
You are Medic Rabee Fulconos, Roughneck of Elanthia, an Elf.
You are Monk Rabee Fulconos.
"1900" was implying you a.) being a moon mage and having astrology ranks, or being a thief and having backstab ranks (of a significant nature, of course, I even have one rank in backstab.)
But out of my "1900" choices, which one of those would hint to you that I am a cleric, or even a nice person. I can't even tend slight wounds on my chest. Medic is a little overrated.
The cleric formerly known as Monk Rabee
At this point I'm vaguely inclined to believe that Monk is being integrated with the religious titles that were stated to be part of the second titles release.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
"'You're saying we have wars,' Saint Gut-Free says, 'because we have a low threshold for boredom?'
And the Missing Link says, 'We have wars because we deny that low threshold.'"
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
"'You're saying we have wars,' Saint Gut-Free says, 'because we have a low threshold for boredom?'
And the Missing Link says, 'We have wars because we deny that low threshold.'"
>At this point I'm vaguely inclined to believe that Monk is being integrated with the religious titles that were stated to be part of the second titles release.
I didn't know the categories for wave 2 had been announced. Could you point to the post/topic where these were listed?
And that makes sence that monk would be in that group, as well as the priest title I used prior to its vanishing act.
Thrall of Dergati,
Heroiklim Zortal
I didn't know the categories for wave 2 had been announced. Could you point to the post/topic where these were listed?
And that makes sence that monk would be in that group, as well as the priest title I used prior to its vanishing act.
Thrall of Dergati,
Heroiklim Zortal
>But out of my "1900" choices, which one of those would hint to you that I am a cleric, or even a nice person. I can't even tend slight wounds on my chest. Medic is a little overrated.
Honestly, neither hint to you being a cleric or a nice person. I may be biased though, having visited various monasteries of differing religions/philosophies. I agree the prereqs for medic are too low, though.
Thrall of Dergati,
Heroiklim Zortal
Honestly, neither hint to you being a cleric or a nice person. I may be biased though, having visited various monasteries of differing religions/philosophies. I agree the prereqs for medic are too low, though.
Thrall of Dergati,
Heroiklim Zortal
Not sure there is a post to point to, but racial and religious titles had been mentioned as being part of the second release.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
"'You're saying we have wars,' Saint Gut-Free says, 'because we have a low threshold for boredom?'
And the Missing Link says, 'We have wars because we deny that low threshold.'"
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
"'You're saying we have wars,' Saint Gut-Free says, 'because we have a low threshold for boredom?'
And the Missing Link says, 'We have wars because we deny that low threshold.'"
