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I know this rant will most likely be obsolete in the upcoming months due to magic 3.0, but I just wanted to get it off my chest. I very rarely complain about training issues on the whole, but training targeted magic is becoming more and more of a hassle and less of a skill I train for enjoyment. Being within a couple of ranks of 800 TM, I'm hoping that the large majority of other clerics won't have to experience the same problem I'm having (once again because of Magic 3.0).
The number of critters that even teach targeted magic to me are extremely small; a majority of them are located on mer'kresh (featuring armadillos and celps) with the others having unbearably low spawn in a large area(resuscitants) or have special mechanics and absolutely no decent loot(flex souls right next to resuscitants). With that being said, it saddens and annoys me that the fastest and arguably best way to train TM is by doing what people do to start training TM: spamming BOLT. This is the type of experience I've had for training TM:
flex tortured souls: 3 spawn per hunter, flex, actually teach well but have no loot except soulstones (which I subsequently dump into the paladin's guild). The majority of the time is spent waiting for the 3 souls to spawn back. Average time to lock TM: 20 minutes using HORN
Resuscitants: 4-6 per hunter, hard to get in one room, hides, ambushes. Decent loot and boxes. A majority of the time is spent running through the rooms trying to find them. Average time to lock TM: Over 30 minutes using FF, HORN, or BOLT.
Super Celps: Great spawn, skins only. With celps being completely immune to fire (and not to mention in a justice location), FOU and BOLT do absolutely no damage, which leaves me using HORN to kill celps. Takes somewhere between 150-200 kills of celps to lock TM, using HORN nonstop. Average time to lock TM: 30-40 minutes
Armadilos: Decent spawn depending on the number of hunters, skin only. Armadillos actually work the best on kresh due to their shield and heavy armor. Alternating between FOU to clear out rooms and then spamming BOLT (effectively learning while not actually killing the armadillo) while waiting for more keeps TM moving faster than targeting and killing celps nonstop. Average time to lock TM: 20-25 minutes.
So on the whole training TM turns into a frustrating, monotonous affair. I'm not asking for TM or spawn to be fixed or anything, I honestly just wanted to rant, and I figured this is where I should do it. /endrant
-Langa
I say fix it. It is unbelievably annoying to me that I can lock weapons, armor, shield, parry, evasion, Primary Magic, and harness long before I will ever get around to locking TM. Also, spamming bolt over and over because it teaches better then using any of our other attack spells? I'm sorry, but there's something wrong with that picture. I can understand why it was created for low circle characters to help them train magics, but for those of us who aren't low circle using bolt because it trains tm better then any other spell we have. I think something is wrong with this picture.
I'm pretty sure Devs know of and are working at eliminating this problem by adding in AIM/TARGET exp.
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~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
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~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
When I read Langa's post, I related. Though with lots less TM and with more creatures to train against, I find training TM fairly tedious. Not as tedious as training HX, but tedious.
And this is just a rant. I know things will change with 3.0
Clerics are just so cuddly you can't get mad at them, until they try to rip your soul out and chew on it like a candy bar.
And this is just a rant. I know things will change with 3.0
Clerics are just so cuddly you can't get mad at them, until they try to rip your soul out and chew on it like a candy bar.
I am just shy of 650 TM and have the same problem with Phaelynae, Langa... the only thing I have found to try is harm horde, bring some slaves with you to increase spawn, harm horde, rinse repeat until finished... but thats in the zombies in Boar Clan
-Joshuan- (And Phaelynae for this post!)
-Joshuan- (And Phaelynae for this post!)
I don't find it particularly hard, just tedious.
If the spawn is high enough, casting FOU, I can lock TM in a reasonable time. But without FOU and high spawn?
Again- this is not really a complaint- it is just my echoing the rant. I am not looking for this to be different until after 3.0 kicks in.
And then? I will just have to wait and see.
Clerics are just so cuddly you can't get mad at them, until they try to rip your soul out and chew on it like a candy bar.
If the spawn is high enough, casting FOU, I can lock TM in a reasonable time. But without FOU and high spawn?
Again- this is not really a complaint- it is just my echoing the rant. I am not looking for this to be different until after 3.0 kicks in.
And then? I will just have to wait and see.
Clerics are just so cuddly you can't get mad at them, until they try to rip your soul out and chew on it like a candy bar.
Why does everyone feel so strongly that 20-30 minutes to lock a skill is too long? I know I'm not exactly a min-maxer, or even remotely but seems to me...
A) Slower you lock a skill, the more pulses are getting in before it locks and you stop training it.
B) Worst thing I can think of for taking 20 minutes to lock TM is that my defenses will continue to move.
P.S. 475 TM and still locking without too much effort.
Segmere
Shadow Priest, Baron's Own Militia
"The best cure for insomnia is to get a lot of sleep." ~WC Fields
A) Slower you lock a skill, the more pulses are getting in before it locks and you stop training it.
B) Worst thing I can think of for taking 20 minutes to lock TM is that my defenses will continue to move.
P.S. 475 TM and still locking without too much effort.
Segmere
Shadow Priest, Baron's Own Militia
"The best cure for insomnia is to get a lot of sleep." ~WC Fields
Well, in general, if it's a skill to lock and move on, like climbing, is it better to spend, say, an hour trying to lock it, and get 18 extra pulses? Say that's Mindlock twice over, though in my experience, I kind of doubt that. Probably more like 1.5 times.
Or spend 20 minutes to lock a skill, and move on to another skill to lock in 20 minutes, and then a third skill to lock in 20 minutes?
"Perfect training efficiency" is more of a motto than something precisely defined; of keeping as many skills moving at max drain as you can, which is really just keep things at 2/34 or 3/34.
If you could magically keep 50 skills at 2/34 forever compared to 1-2 at 34/34, the former is FAR more preferable.
That all said. I do not view 20 minutes to lock a primary skill as "long". High drain %, large pool. I might consider that a bit much for a secondary skill, and definitely a tertiary skill should be locking faster than 20 minutes if you're hammering it.
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
Or spend 20 minutes to lock a skill, and move on to another skill to lock in 20 minutes, and then a third skill to lock in 20 minutes?
"Perfect training efficiency" is more of a motto than something precisely defined; of keeping as many skills moving at max drain as you can, which is really just keep things at 2/34 or 3/34.
If you could magically keep 50 skills at 2/34 forever compared to 1-2 at 34/34, the former is FAR more preferable.
That all said. I do not view 20 minutes to lock a primary skill as "long". High drain %, large pool. I might consider that a bit much for a secondary skill, and definitely a tertiary skill should be locking faster than 20 minutes if you're hammering it.
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
I guess my main rant/complaint isn't necessarily how long it takes to lock TM, but more the method required to do so in the most efficient manner. Despite having the full repertoire of cleric spells, I'm stuck using a wimpy first tier spell to learn the best. All things considering, I think that 20-30 minutes to lock a primary skill is within reason, its just a tad bit frustrating on how to do so. Once again, all in all its just a temporary complaint that I'm sure will be addressed once the new magic system comes out.
-Langa
-Langa
"I guess my main rant/complaint isn't necessarily how long it takes to lock TM, but more the method required to do so in the most efficient manner. Despite having the full repertoire of cleric spells, I'm stuck using a wimpy first tier spell to learn the best"
I don't understand this either. Is this something that happens when you get higher? I've never found eb to be better than one of our own spells.
I don't understand this either. Is this something that happens when you get higher? I've never found eb to be better than one of our own spells.
It seems to be true in my experience, which is mostly due to the only critters that will teach TM are super celps and armadillos. So the effectiveness of BOLT is more due to HORN and other spells being too effective at killing armadillos to the point where spawn can't keep up (which isn't bad for killing things, but not good for training TM currently). I honestly didn't even have to go out of my way to train TM until past 650 ranks.
But for the most part I doubt that most clerics will see any sort of issue training magic before magic 3.0 comes out. I was really just ranting earlier, mostly because of my not so great mood that day.
-Langa
But for the most part I doubt that most clerics will see any sort of issue training magic before magic 3.0 comes out. I was really just ranting earlier, mostly because of my not so great mood that day.
-Langa
This is not a TM-only issue. It's the nature of higher level hunting + primary skillsets.
When melee-hunting celps and dillos with my Barbarian I had to use rotating variables to attack limbs so as not to hit a vital body part which would often result in a 1-shot kill.
Similarly, with LX I killed everything in 3 shots. No more, no less. First shot was right arm, second shot was right leg (often resulting in a stun + prone situation), third shot was an apocolyptic to the chest.
I'm sure the same would work with TM.
When melee-hunting celps and dillos with my Barbarian I had to use rotating variables to attack limbs so as not to hit a vital body part which would often result in a 1-shot kill.
Similarly, with LX I killed everything in 3 shots. No more, no less. First shot was right arm, second shot was right leg (often resulting in a stun + prone situation), third shot was an apocolyptic to the chest.
I'm sure the same would work with TM.
I'm sure it's referring to the drain that occurs when you log out. You'll drain your skills a lot longer at 34/34 (8 hours to go from 34/34 to 0/34?) This is what I consider "max drain."
________________________________________
Clerics are on the sectual radar.
Just to be clear - I didn't do it. Not sure who did, but it wasn't me.
- GM Raesh
________________________________________
Clerics are on the sectual radar.
Just to be clear - I didn't do it. Not sure who did, but it wasn't me.
- GM Raesh
If TM is the only magic skill you care about, spamming low mana snap casts works best especially if its multi hit.
If you want to train other magics at the same time, use a large cambrinth charge to boost the above strategy. TM will lock more slowly, but all other magics will move faster.
-Evran
Gay, geeky, and a little bit cheeky.
If you want to train other magics at the same time, use a large cambrinth charge to boost the above strategy. TM will lock more slowly, but all other magics will move faster.
-Evran
Gay, geeky, and a little bit cheeky.
I just use FOU now, supplimented by DR. If there are just too few targets for FOU, I will use FF and AE. Not perfect by any means but I currently find anything but FOU rather tedious. Thats my issue though.
Clerics are just so cuddly you can't get mad at them, until they try to rip your soul out and chew on it like a candy bar.
Clerics are just so cuddly you can't get mad at them, until they try to rip your soul out and chew on it like a candy bar.
