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Ok, I don't know if this is a big thing or not to anyone else but is anyone else getting tired of murders happening inside the inside the guildhouse. Well, it may not be a problem anywhere else but the crossing, but I'm personally tired of watching people get ressurected and then killed even before they have gotten the first breath inside of them. The worst part is that, sure, they can be flagged for the town guards for murder, but they get to stand inside the cleric guild and just brag and watch... Is there anything that can be done to help resolve this?
Shevden of the Cleric Guild
Make inside the guild no combat please.
I personally don't care too much about no theft or anything like that, but it really is a large nuisance and often a problem. I don't even really want to try and justify an IC reason, it often affects playability and it would be nice if the snerts went elsewhere.
You are Malkien, a dashing Barbarian. Huzzah!
You are Apis, a legendary Cleric in your own head.
You are Ragesong. What sort of Kaldar is a Bard, anyways, doofus?
You are also Pellazan (WM), Essatariol (Ranger) and running out of sig space.
I personally don't care too much about no theft or anything like that, but it really is a large nuisance and often a problem. I don't even really want to try and justify an IC reason, it often affects playability and it would be nice if the snerts went elsewhere.
You are Malkien, a dashing Barbarian. Huzzah!
You are Apis, a legendary Cleric in your own head.
You are Ragesong. What sort of Kaldar is a Bard, anyways, doofus?
You are also Pellazan (WM), Essatariol (Ranger) and running out of sig space.
I like this also... If you can't do this, is there anyway we can have a "town guard" of sorts to be able to drag them to the jail. I find it annoying that someone can do something like tonight, where I just got blasted with a sound blast of sorts and they got nailed for disturbing the peace and they are just sitting in here acting like nothing happened. I like the no combat thing better personally.
Shevden of the Cleric Guild
Shevden of the Cleric Guild
From what I understand, the building, while part of the guild GROUNDS, is not actually part of the guild hall.
If someone is bothering you that much you can always ask the monk to remove them.
And most of the time if someone goes in there and kills someone, they have a reason, at least from what I've seen while sitting on my Cleric.
Shadeau Moonith,
Player of.
--
(Drongol dislikes you.)
If someone is bothering you that much you can always ask the monk to remove them.
And most of the time if someone goes in there and kills someone, they have a reason, at least from what I've seen while sitting on my Cleric.
Shadeau Moonith,
Player of.
--
(Drongol dislikes you.)
The all areas within the Guild Grounds are considered to be part of the Guildhall.
Security within the Guildhall is a topic that is currently under discussion by the Guildleaders and something I am sure will be brought up again during the up-coming guildleader meeting this week.
GM Lirrak
Cleric Liaison
Security within the Guildhall is a topic that is currently under discussion by the Guildleaders and something I am sure will be brought up again during the up-coming guildleader meeting this week.
GM Lirrak
Cleric Liaison
There are some of the pantheon of Immortals who would have no problem with violence under their watch.
But yes, this is just another iteration of the same old "People are being meanies and killing people in the gathering hall" thread we see every few months.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
But yes, this is just another iteration of the same old "People are being meanies and killing people in the gathering hall" thread we see every few months.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
>>There are some of the pantheon of Immortals who would have no problem with violence under their watch.
And see, this is why I didn't want to bother with IC justification. The light-dark-neutral pantheon of Gods might approve of just about anything at any time save perhaps the undead and necromancy.
It is not a game-breaking concern, but it is a problem sometimes and solutions should be considered. But hey you're right. There aren't 10,000 other rooms where one can be a snert and pick a fight. Yes, sarcasm, though honestly my sympathies for anyone who would truly miss the violence in the guild-hall are pretty low.
I would also like to point out I'm a Barbarian primary. I love fighting, be it pit-fighting or challenge format. When I just rejuved someone only to have them arrowed to death when they come to retrieve their stuff it's a little ridiculous though. Consent usually ends upon death. Move the snerts elsewhere.
You are Malkien, a dashing Barbarian. Huzzah!
You are Apis, a legendary Cleric in your own head.
You are Ragesong. What sort of Kaldar is a Bard, anyways, doofus?
You are also Pellazan (WM), Essatariol (Ranger) and running out of sig space.
And see, this is why I didn't want to bother with IC justification. The light-dark-neutral pantheon of Gods might approve of just about anything at any time save perhaps the undead and necromancy.
It is not a game-breaking concern, but it is a problem sometimes and solutions should be considered. But hey you're right. There aren't 10,000 other rooms where one can be a snert and pick a fight. Yes, sarcasm, though honestly my sympathies for anyone who would truly miss the violence in the guild-hall are pretty low.
I would also like to point out I'm a Barbarian primary. I love fighting, be it pit-fighting or challenge format. When I just rejuved someone only to have them arrowed to death when they come to retrieve their stuff it's a little ridiculous though. Consent usually ends upon death. Move the snerts elsewhere.
You are Malkien, a dashing Barbarian. Huzzah!
You are Apis, a legendary Cleric in your own head.
You are Ragesong. What sort of Kaldar is a Bard, anyways, doofus?
You are also Pellazan (WM), Essatariol (Ranger) and running out of sig space.
Given that random murder is more or less a negligible concern, if someone's coming into the guildhall to take someone out, then there is a reason for it. Don't steal/mouth off/etc if you're not willing to accept being smeared into a fine red paste.
If you turn a crowded gathering place like the hall into a no-violence room, you're simply going to trade the odd act of random violence for people hiding in there and endless bouts of trash-talking, given that the corpses are going to end up in there anyway, and who would leave the sanctity of a no-violence room when death is presumably waiting outside?
Then again, I seem to be one of the few people who accepts that this is a natural order of things within the game, and fully expect the guild to be childproofed following the guildleader meetings.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
If you turn a crowded gathering place like the hall into a no-violence room, you're simply going to trade the odd act of random violence for people hiding in there and endless bouts of trash-talking, given that the corpses are going to end up in there anyway, and who would leave the sanctity of a no-violence room when death is presumably waiting outside?
Then again, I seem to be one of the few people who accepts that this is a natural order of things within the game, and fully expect the guild to be childproofed following the guildleader meetings.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
Lirrak says, "I know that this has been a hot topic at a few different times"
Lirrak says, "And it is one that I can see both side of. With that said I do think that the Monk might need some new training. "
Lirrak says, "However, I can tell you that the guild will not be completly safe"
Lirrak says, "But it is a difficult topic, while we are holy we have gods that are evil, some that are neutral, and some that are good."
Lirrak says, "So we will do our best to come up with a solution that works for the guild"
~Aeth
Lirrak says, "And it is one that I can see both side of. With that said I do think that the Monk might need some new training. "
Lirrak says, "However, I can tell you that the guild will not be completly safe"
Lirrak says, "But it is a difficult topic, while we are holy we have gods that are evil, some that are neutral, and some that are good."
Lirrak says, "So we will do our best to come up with a solution that works for the guild"
~Aeth
>>Given that random murder is more or less a negligible concern, if someone's coming into the guildhall to take someone out.
From an OOC standpoint, if they continue to kill said someone after killing them once, its unconsented CvC. Once the first death occurs, consent should be over per policy. And the fued ended.
From an IC point of view, could always make it to where if someone kills another inside the guild hall, make it to where they are automatically shunned or cursed for a period of time. And give messages of how certain gods are frowning down at them and in order to be in their good graces again, have it coded to where they have to go and clean altars and dance around the altars like the clerics already do. Keep it IC if thats what you want to do. Or have a guild leader come in an ward the area like a permanent banner.
If they want to kill each other, make sure they do it outside that room, its not really to hard to macro a way out of the clerics guild if need be. If your worried about them sticking around to avoid death again, remember, after the first death, the feud is over and camping a grave is agains't policy.
I don't know, thats my two kronars.
~Dalkin~ (who's getting around the boards today cause he's bored)
From an OOC standpoint, if they continue to kill said someone after killing them once, its unconsented CvC. Once the first death occurs, consent should be over per policy. And the fued ended.
From an IC point of view, could always make it to where if someone kills another inside the guild hall, make it to where they are automatically shunned or cursed for a period of time. And give messages of how certain gods are frowning down at them and in order to be in their good graces again, have it coded to where they have to go and clean altars and dance around the altars like the clerics already do. Keep it IC if thats what you want to do. Or have a guild leader come in an ward the area like a permanent banner.
If they want to kill each other, make sure they do it outside that room, its not really to hard to macro a way out of the clerics guild if need be. If your worried about them sticking around to avoid death again, remember, after the first death, the feud is over and camping a grave is agains't policy.
I don't know, thats my two kronars.
~Dalkin~ (who's getting around the boards today cause he's bored)
If putting up a permanent banner isn't a solution that everyone likes, at least give the monk the extra training and allow him to drag some snerts off to the jail when they commit murder inside the guild house. I think thats just one thing that annoys me that when they commit a crime, there's no one there to haul them off to the cells.
Shevden of the Cleric Guild
Shevden of the Cleric Guild
>>From an OOC standpoint, if they continue to kill said someone after killing them once, its unconsented CvC. Once the first death occurs, consent should be over per policy. And the fued ended.
And thankfully, not everyone plays the policy card full time. Automating something OOC like consent policy IG is a bad idea.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
And thankfully, not everyone plays the policy card full time. Automating something OOC like consent policy IG is a bad idea.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
Shevden this has been an on-going discussion for years not just months but it kinda came to a head when the war mage guilds hang out spot became a safe room. We had formed a group who presented our case IG before the court and also OOCly. I think every suggestion that people could come up with has been read here so lets see what Lirrak comes up with after the guild leaders have thier meeting. I'm hoping both sides of this issue will be pleased or at least feel it's doable. :)
-Entyycement
-Entyycement
>>And thankfully, not everyone plays the policy card full time. Automating something OOC like consent policy IG is a bad idea.
who said you had to say it out loud? There is the ooc whisper verb, in which the dead can tell the one that killed them, if they chose to. Its pretty easy actually.
ooc dalk hey, you got your kill, its over, drop the feud, thank you.
You whisper to Dalkin OOC: hey, you got your kill, its over, drop the feud, thank you.
Or if he really wants to, speak while dead.
'Dalkin, you got your kill, our feud is done.
If said attacker doesn't back off, no where in those two statements did anyone hear the dead say, OOC hey, we're done, knock it off. There are ways around it. If the dead say it out loud, that the feud is done, he got his kill. Yet he continues to do so, and the dead is not enjoying the situation, its harrassment and constitutes unconsented CvC once the dead says, end it. And again, there is the Warn Verb. There are many things someone can do. Just type out "Warn" in game and you will get this message:
>>When this method is employed, an OOC message will be sent to the player, privately letting them know your feelings, to clear up any possible doubt about where you both stand. Records are kept of all communications issued and received, as well as whether they were acknowledged or declined, as applicable.
COMBAT
>>Suitable for roleplayed conflicts where it is to the players' advantage to have consent on record. The receiving player will have an opportunity to acknowledge the warning so that any potential conflict can be settled to both parties' satisfaction. Note that the agreement terminates once either player dies or one hour has passed.
HARASSMENT
>>Suitable when someone's actions have transgressed beyond the boundaries of acceptable, normal roleplay and are disrupting your enjoyment of the game. This should not be used lightly. You will be expected to behave yourself as well as the person to whom you issued such a statement.
INTERACTION
Suitable for expressing to the other party that you wish to have NO INTERACTION WHATSOEVER with them. This option should not be used unless you are willing to remove yourself from the presence of the person to whom you issue it. Upon issuance, both players should immediately go their separate ways and cease all interaction with each other, including (but not limited to) conversations regarding the other player with third parties (besides staff members).
>>Note that in all cases, this verb is simply for improved communication. Policy and handling of situations remains unchanged, and under no circumstances should the WARN verb be viewed as an excuse or license to take matters into your own hands, should the other party ignore your wishes. As always, your best course of action in such a situation is to place an ASSIST and speak with a GameHost.
Than there's Policy 11
>>There are many gray areas in terms of defining what is acceptable competition, and what is abusive behavior. In general, Simutronics will not get involved in any player vs. player conflict which is confined to a small group of players. However, if such conflict overlaps to other players, or causes a generally disruptive influence on DragonRealms in general, the participants will be warned. Simutronics reserves the right to determine which behavior is considered abusive.
I reiterate, if such conflict overlaps to ther players, or causes a generally disruptive influence on Dragonrealms in general, the participants will be warned.
Meaning, if they bring the conflict into the guild and kill once the dead is up and walking, everyone in the room can assist about the disruptive behavior. But the best means is the Warn verb.
I'm sorry, but there is no reason anyone should be camping a grave just to kill again. They could get into quiet a bit of trouble for camping for purposely trying to walk someone. Which, is again, agains't policy. There are quiet a few ways to look at it.
~Dalkin~
who said you had to say it out loud? There is the ooc whisper verb, in which the dead can tell the one that killed them, if they chose to. Its pretty easy actually.
ooc dalk hey, you got your kill, its over, drop the feud, thank you.
You whisper to Dalkin OOC: hey, you got your kill, its over, drop the feud, thank you.
Or if he really wants to, speak while dead.
'Dalkin, you got your kill, our feud is done.
If said attacker doesn't back off, no where in those two statements did anyone hear the dead say, OOC hey, we're done, knock it off. There are ways around it. If the dead say it out loud, that the feud is done, he got his kill. Yet he continues to do so, and the dead is not enjoying the situation, its harrassment and constitutes unconsented CvC once the dead says, end it. And again, there is the Warn Verb. There are many things someone can do. Just type out "Warn" in game and you will get this message:
>>When this method is employed, an OOC message will be sent to the player, privately letting them know your feelings, to clear up any possible doubt about where you both stand. Records are kept of all communications issued and received, as well as whether they were acknowledged or declined, as applicable.
COMBAT
>>Suitable for roleplayed conflicts where it is to the players' advantage to have consent on record. The receiving player will have an opportunity to acknowledge the warning so that any potential conflict can be settled to both parties' satisfaction. Note that the agreement terminates once either player dies or one hour has passed.
HARASSMENT
>>Suitable when someone's actions have transgressed beyond the boundaries of acceptable, normal roleplay and are disrupting your enjoyment of the game. This should not be used lightly. You will be expected to behave yourself as well as the person to whom you issued such a statement.
INTERACTION
Suitable for expressing to the other party that you wish to have NO INTERACTION WHATSOEVER with them. This option should not be used unless you are willing to remove yourself from the presence of the person to whom you issue it. Upon issuance, both players should immediately go their separate ways and cease all interaction with each other, including (but not limited to) conversations regarding the other player with third parties (besides staff members).
>>Note that in all cases, this verb is simply for improved communication. Policy and handling of situations remains unchanged, and under no circumstances should the WARN verb be viewed as an excuse or license to take matters into your own hands, should the other party ignore your wishes. As always, your best course of action in such a situation is to place an ASSIST and speak with a GameHost.
Than there's Policy 11
>>There are many gray areas in terms of defining what is acceptable competition, and what is abusive behavior. In general, Simutronics will not get involved in any player vs. player conflict which is confined to a small group of players. However, if such conflict overlaps to other players, or causes a generally disruptive influence on DragonRealms in general, the participants will be warned. Simutronics reserves the right to determine which behavior is considered abusive.
I reiterate, if such conflict overlaps to ther players, or causes a generally disruptive influence on Dragonrealms in general, the participants will be warned.
Meaning, if they bring the conflict into the guild and kill once the dead is up and walking, everyone in the room can assist about the disruptive behavior. But the best means is the Warn verb.
I'm sorry, but there is no reason anyone should be camping a grave just to kill again. They could get into quiet a bit of trouble for camping for purposely trying to walk someone. Which, is again, agains't policy. There are quiet a few ways to look at it.
~Dalkin~
I'm aware of what policy says. In the event that people are getting into situations that conflict with policy, it is their prerogative to report/assist if they are so inclined. If the extent of your involvement is "I was sitting here and then stuff started happening around me", stay out of it and let the people who are actually directly involved with the conflict handle that decision for themselves. Not all acts of violence that are technically against policy end up with the GMs getting involved, because people can choose to handle things themselves without bringing the GMs into it.
Stop trying to play OOC Policy Police and bloody well get over it, and don't try to make in-game changes to areas simply because people might choose to step out of bounds.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
Stop trying to play OOC Policy Police and bloody well get over it, and don't try to make in-game changes to areas simply because people might choose to step out of bounds.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
>>Stop trying to play OOC Policy Police and bloody well get over it, and don't try to make in-game changes to areas simply because people might choose to step out of bounds.
Just because you don't mind it, don't mean others do. Thats what you have to look at. Not just whats good for you, but whats good for everyone.
And as to playing policy police, I'm not. I'm pointing out what is and isn't agains't policy. Seems someone needs to learn the difference. What you might enjoy, someone else might not.
As to making changes to in game areas, if thats what it takes to stop what is happening, you'll get over it won't you?
The cleric guild is what I have always considered sacred ground, holy ground. If someone is murdered on the grounds, they should be punished harshly. Period. Its disrespecting the holiness of the guild. Irreguardless of who you ask for favors from.
Think of it this way, killing in a church. Bad, killing just outside the guild where the land hasn't been blessed, they should have seen it coming. I personally think that the guild leader needs to ward the area a no combat zone. Because it is holy land. From an IC standpoint.
And again, just because you don't mind it, don't mean others don't. Everyone plays the game to have fun and enjoy themselves. Not to be harrassed by someone once the conflict should be over. Much less ruining everyone elses game play with the conflict. Thats all I'm saying. And if you don't like my feelings towards it, or my opinion, guess what? You'll get over that to, or you goin to take your ball and go home since no one likes your style of play?
~Dalkin~
Just because you don't mind it, don't mean others do. Thats what you have to look at. Not just whats good for you, but whats good for everyone.
And as to playing policy police, I'm not. I'm pointing out what is and isn't agains't policy. Seems someone needs to learn the difference. What you might enjoy, someone else might not.
As to making changes to in game areas, if thats what it takes to stop what is happening, you'll get over it won't you?
The cleric guild is what I have always considered sacred ground, holy ground. If someone is murdered on the grounds, they should be punished harshly. Period. Its disrespecting the holiness of the guild. Irreguardless of who you ask for favors from.
Think of it this way, killing in a church. Bad, killing just outside the guild where the land hasn't been blessed, they should have seen it coming. I personally think that the guild leader needs to ward the area a no combat zone. Because it is holy land. From an IC standpoint.
And again, just because you don't mind it, don't mean others don't. Everyone plays the game to have fun and enjoy themselves. Not to be harrassed by someone once the conflict should be over. Much less ruining everyone elses game play with the conflict. Thats all I'm saying. And if you don't like my feelings towards it, or my opinion, guess what? You'll get over that to, or you goin to take your ball and go home since no one likes your style of play?
~Dalkin~
>>You'll get over that to, or you goin to take your ball and go home since no one likes your style of play?
Blast, you have discovered my weakness.
HELP I AM SLAIN.
It's not like I'm routinely killing people in the gathering hall, anyway. Apparently playing devil's advocate and hoping that actual mechanical changes to IG areas have good reason and not simply exist out of a sense of overprotection means I'm some sort of murderous griefer.
If the gathering hall was consecrated ground and actually designated as a holy area (like a shrine), that would be one thing. It's not, and there is no current IG rationale as to why it would be that much more protected than an altar or shrine or temple. It's simply Corpse Storage, and the description on the room essentially says as such. If everyone hung out in the Chapel in front of the altar there and murders occured, then yes I would expect much more strict reprisals (both from mortal and immortal means).
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
Blast, you have discovered my weakness.
HELP I AM SLAIN.
It's not like I'm routinely killing people in the gathering hall, anyway. Apparently playing devil's advocate and hoping that actual mechanical changes to IG areas have good reason and not simply exist out of a sense of overprotection means I'm some sort of murderous griefer.
If the gathering hall was consecrated ground and actually designated as a holy area (like a shrine), that would be one thing. It's not, and there is no current IG rationale as to why it would be that much more protected than an altar or shrine or temple. It's simply Corpse Storage, and the description on the room essentially says as such. If everyone hung out in the Chapel in front of the altar there and murders occured, then yes I would expect much more strict reprisals (both from mortal and immortal means).
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
>>I know first hand where arguing with him is gonna lead. Nowhere and fast. He's not flexible at all in his way of thinking.
>>Just pat him on the head and walk away.
It's leading me to a much, much more entertaining workday so far. Mondays shouldn't be so fun.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
>>Just pat him on the head and walk away.
It's leading me to a much, much more entertaining workday so far. Mondays shouldn't be so fun.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
>>Meaning, if they bring the conflict into the guild and kill once the dead is up and walking, everyone in the room can assist about the disruptive behavior. But the best means is the Warn verb.
Simply witnessing a murder twice would require an extremely liberal definition of "disruptive behavior" to qualify, or require some extenuating circumstances which the GM handling the scene would need to make a judgment call about.
>>I'm sorry, but there is no reason anyone should be camping a grave just to kill again. They could get into quiet a bit of trouble for camping for purposely trying to walk someone. Which, is again, agains't policy.
It's only against policy if the people directed related to the conflict wish to get GMs involved. Two consenting parties can camp themselves silly, as long as they do not cause any tangentially related policy violations in the process.
PvP isn't bad and PvP isn't against policy; only unconsented PvP is.
-Armifer
"What covers all the world?"
"Darkness."
"What keeps a thing from discovering itself?"
"That is also darkness."
-Yudhishthira tested by Dharma, in the Mahabharata
Simply witnessing a murder twice would require an extremely liberal definition of "disruptive behavior" to qualify, or require some extenuating circumstances which the GM handling the scene would need to make a judgment call about.
>>I'm sorry, but there is no reason anyone should be camping a grave just to kill again. They could get into quiet a bit of trouble for camping for purposely trying to walk someone. Which, is again, agains't policy.
It's only against policy if the people directed related to the conflict wish to get GMs involved. Two consenting parties can camp themselves silly, as long as they do not cause any tangentially related policy violations in the process.
PvP isn't bad and PvP isn't against policy; only unconsented PvP is.
-Armifer
"What covers all the world?"
"Darkness."
"What keeps a thing from discovering itself?"
"That is also darkness."
-Yudhishthira tested by Dharma, in the Mahabharata
>>Give up Dalkin I know first hand where arguing with him is gonna lead. Nowhere and fast. He's not flexible at all in his way of thinking.
Just pat him on the head and walk away.
::snickers::
>>If the gathering hall was consecrated ground and actually designated as a holy area (like a shrine), that would be one thing. It's not, and there is no current IG rationale as to why it would be that much more protected than an altar or shrine or temple. It's simply Corpse Storage, and the description on the room essentially says as such. If everyone hung out in the Chapel in front of the altar there and murders occured, then yes I would expect much more strict reprisals (both from mortal and immortal means).
Heh, maybe its time the guild leader came out and blessed the land, it would make it holy. Toss some holy oil here, toss some holy water there. Make it sacred ground. Seems I'm not the only one who thinks it shouldn't be happening where your raising your dead. Just that alone should make it holy ground. There doesn't need to be an altar or shrine for it to be considered holy ground. Least not that I have ever seen or heard anywhere in game, written or said by any guild leaders.
~Dalkin~
Just pat him on the head and walk away.
::snickers::
>>If the gathering hall was consecrated ground and actually designated as a holy area (like a shrine), that would be one thing. It's not, and there is no current IG rationale as to why it would be that much more protected than an altar or shrine or temple. It's simply Corpse Storage, and the description on the room essentially says as such. If everyone hung out in the Chapel in front of the altar there and murders occured, then yes I would expect much more strict reprisals (both from mortal and immortal means).
Heh, maybe its time the guild leader came out and blessed the land, it would make it holy. Toss some holy oil here, toss some holy water there. Make it sacred ground. Seems I'm not the only one who thinks it shouldn't be happening where your raising your dead. Just that alone should make it holy ground. There doesn't need to be an altar or shrine for it to be considered holy ground. Least not that I have ever seen or heard anywhere in game, written or said by any guild leaders.
~Dalkin~
>>Heh, maybe its time the guild leader came out and blessed the land, it would make it holy. Toss some holy oil here, toss some holy water there. Make it sacred ground. Seems I'm not the only one who thinks it shouldn't be happening where your raising your dead.
If there's some sort of event where Esuin comes into the gathering hall, lays down the law, consecrates the ground, and things change? Great. For all we know, that'll be the end result of the Great Guildleader Gathering.
Until then, the "pro-violence" argument (man, that's a misnomer) is just as valid for that spot as the "make the room no-violence" one.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
If there's some sort of event where Esuin comes into the gathering hall, lays down the law, consecrates the ground, and things change? Great. For all we know, that'll be the end result of the Great Guildleader Gathering.
Until then, the "pro-violence" argument (man, that's a misnomer) is just as valid for that spot as the "make the room no-violence" one.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
>>If the gathering hall was consecrated ground and actually designated as a holy area (like a shrine), that would be one thing.
There's thirty-nine gods in the pantheon and a lot of them like exactly the opposite stuff as some of the others. The list of things that are actually unholy in the religion of the Immortals is pretty small, and stealing, murder, and mayhem would not logically be on that list.
It's entirely possible the Cleric Guild as the mortal organization -- both due to leaning towards Light Aspects, and due to political and legal realities -- would frown on mayhem, but there's no reason for Urrem'tier to be upset.
-Armifer
"What covers all the world?"
"Darkness."
"What keeps a thing from discovering itself?"
"That is also darkness."
-Yudhishthira tested by Dharma, in the Mahabharata
There's thirty-nine gods in the pantheon and a lot of them like exactly the opposite stuff as some of the others. The list of things that are actually unholy in the religion of the Immortals is pretty small, and stealing, murder, and mayhem would not logically be on that list.
It's entirely possible the Cleric Guild as the mortal organization -- both due to leaning towards Light Aspects, and due to political and legal realities -- would frown on mayhem, but there's no reason for Urrem'tier to be upset.
-Armifer
"What covers all the world?"
"Darkness."
"What keeps a thing from discovering itself?"
"That is also darkness."
-Yudhishthira tested by Dharma, in the Mahabharata
>>It's entirely possible the Cleric Guild as the mortal organization -- both due to leaning towards Light Aspects, and due to political and legal realities -- would frown on mayhem, but there's no reason for Urrem'tier to be upset.
Point taken.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
Point taken.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
>>Simply witnessing a murder twice would require an extremely liberal definition of "disruptive behavior" to qualify, or require some extenuating circumstances which the GM handling the scene would need to make a judgment call about.
Its not that its happening twice from what I"m understanding. Its happening more and more and more, someone gets rejuved, comes back for their grave, and get struck down again. In the very room that they were rejuved.
If no one in the room wants to see it happening, and groan and tell them to take it outside, yet it keeps happening is disruptive to the environment. Considering. Its one of those things of, we just got done rejuving this one, and he gets killed again, kinda annoys and agitates the room. Which according to Policy 11:
>>causes a generally disruptive influence on DragonRealms in general, the participants will be warned.
Yeah, Gamemasters have the right to determine what is abusive or disruptive, but at the same time it is kinda disruptive to the gaming environment that the deaths keep happening in the area where they rejuve folks.
>>Two consenting parties can camp themselves silly, as long as they do not cause any tangentially related policy violations in the process.
If they are camping out graves where they can cause a disruption to everyone else playing the game, such as in the clerics guild, where at any one time there can be 10-50 clerics who don't want to see it, would that be considered disruptive to the environment?
If they want to camp each other, yeah, go for it, but not where its goin to be disruptive to everyone else playing the game at the same time.
~Dalkin~
Its not that its happening twice from what I"m understanding. Its happening more and more and more, someone gets rejuved, comes back for their grave, and get struck down again. In the very room that they were rejuved.
If no one in the room wants to see it happening, and groan and tell them to take it outside, yet it keeps happening is disruptive to the environment. Considering. Its one of those things of, we just got done rejuving this one, and he gets killed again, kinda annoys and agitates the room. Which according to Policy 11:
>>causes a generally disruptive influence on DragonRealms in general, the participants will be warned.
Yeah, Gamemasters have the right to determine what is abusive or disruptive, but at the same time it is kinda disruptive to the gaming environment that the deaths keep happening in the area where they rejuve folks.
>>Two consenting parties can camp themselves silly, as long as they do not cause any tangentially related policy violations in the process.
If they are camping out graves where they can cause a disruption to everyone else playing the game, such as in the clerics guild, where at any one time there can be 10-50 clerics who don't want to see it, would that be considered disruptive to the environment?
If they want to camp each other, yeah, go for it, but not where its goin to be disruptive to everyone else playing the game at the same time.
~Dalkin~
>>If they want to camp each other, yeah, go for it, but not where its goin to be disruptive to everyone else playing the game at the same time.
There's an assumption being made here which I'm not fully in sync with. How is simply witnessing a scene you do not wish to see disruptive to your playing? Especially, of all places, in the Crossing Cleric Guild where you have tools at hand to remove both the corpse and the murderer from the entire area for weeks at a time.
-Armifer
"What covers all the world?"
"Darkness."
"What keeps a thing from discovering itself?"
"That is also darkness."
-Yudhishthira tested by Dharma, in the Mahabharata
There's an assumption being made here which I'm not fully in sync with. How is simply witnessing a scene you do not wish to see disruptive to your playing? Especially, of all places, in the Crossing Cleric Guild where you have tools at hand to remove both the corpse and the murderer from the entire area for weeks at a time.
-Armifer
"What covers all the world?"
"Darkness."
"What keeps a thing from discovering itself?"
"That is also darkness."
-Yudhishthira tested by Dharma, in the Mahabharata
>>Meaning, if they bring the conflict into the guild and kill once the dead is up and walking, everyone in the room can assist about the disruptive behavior.
Heh.
>>The cleric guild is what I have always considered sacred ground, holy ground. If someone is murdered on the grounds, they should be punished harshly. Period. Its disrespecting the holiness of the guild. Irreguardless of who you ask for favors from.
Your concept of holiness in DR is obviously flawed. A priest of Trothfang has every right to kill in his guild (and even in sacred rooms despite the outdated devotion mechanics which prohibit this). Town guards will deal with that, not the guild or the gods.
>>You'll get over that to, or you goin to take your ball and go home since no one likes your style of play?
Apparently someone does, as Lirrak already said the guildhall would not be made a safe zone.
>>Seems I'm not the only one who thinks it shouldn't be happening where your raising your dead.
And Syralon isn't the only one who thinks otherwise. The room is primarily a gathering place for clerics, not "where you're raising your dead".
~Aeth
Heh.
>>The cleric guild is what I have always considered sacred ground, holy ground. If someone is murdered on the grounds, they should be punished harshly. Period. Its disrespecting the holiness of the guild. Irreguardless of who you ask for favors from.
Your concept of holiness in DR is obviously flawed. A priest of Trothfang has every right to kill in his guild (and even in sacred rooms despite the outdated devotion mechanics which prohibit this). Town guards will deal with that, not the guild or the gods.
>>You'll get over that to, or you goin to take your ball and go home since no one likes your style of play?
Apparently someone does, as Lirrak already said the guildhall would not be made a safe zone.
>>Seems I'm not the only one who thinks it shouldn't be happening where your raising your dead.
And Syralon isn't the only one who thinks otherwise. The room is primarily a gathering place for clerics, not "where you're raising your dead".
~Aeth
>>There's an assumption being made here which I'm not fully in sync with. How is simply witnessing a scene you do not wish to see disruptive to your playing?
Say if deader joe just gets his mem's back, mean old man haggard is hiding, deader joe comes back to dig his grave, and bam, mean old man haggard kills him for now the second time. deader joe gets his mems for a second time, departs, comes back again, starts digging out his now 2 graves. And than Bam, is killed again by mean old man haggard. For now the 3rd time. Deader joe gets his mems for a second time, how many times is this goin to happen? Thats what I'm understanding is happening. That in itself is disruptive. I can see ok, kill him twice, first time for possibly stealing, the second time to tell him in no certain words, stealing from me is bad, but possibly a third time would be a bit much. And having him killed twice inside the clerics guild...where its happening all the time. Is disruptive in itself. IC or OOC.
>>Especially, of all places, in the Crossing Cleric Guild where you have tools at hand to remove both the corpse and the murderer from the entire area for weeks at a time.
point taken, which just now has me asking, why don't they use em? ::Chortles::
~Dalkin~
Say if deader joe just gets his mem's back, mean old man haggard is hiding, deader joe comes back to dig his grave, and bam, mean old man haggard kills him for now the second time. deader joe gets his mems for a second time, departs, comes back again, starts digging out his now 2 graves. And than Bam, is killed again by mean old man haggard. For now the 3rd time. Deader joe gets his mems for a second time, how many times is this goin to happen? Thats what I'm understanding is happening. That in itself is disruptive. I can see ok, kill him twice, first time for possibly stealing, the second time to tell him in no certain words, stealing from me is bad, but possibly a third time would be a bit much. And having him killed twice inside the clerics guild...where its happening all the time. Is disruptive in itself. IC or OOC.
>>Especially, of all places, in the Crossing Cleric Guild where you have tools at hand to remove both the corpse and the murderer from the entire area for weeks at a time.
point taken, which just now has me asking, why don't they use em? ::Chortles::
~Dalkin~
>It's entirely possible the Cleric Guild as the mortal organization -- both due to leaning towards Light Aspects, and due to political and legal realities -- would frown on mayhem, but there's no reason for Urrem'tier to be upset.
Exactly but why does the dark aspects leanings outway the light ones? No compromises.
>There's an assumption being made here which I'm not fully in sync with. How is simply witnessing a scene you do not wish to see disruptive to your playing? Especially, of all places, in the Crossing Cleric Guild where you have tools at hand to remove both the corpse and the murderer from the entire area for weeks at a time.
This would be great if it actually worked if a Cleric of high enough standing could do this without waiting for another to show up. Armifer I'm not sure if you're aware but they can come right back after being tossed if they are savvy enough to know about the tunnels. The back door is WIDE OPEN.
-Entyycement
Exactly but why does the dark aspects leanings outway the light ones? No compromises.
>There's an assumption being made here which I'm not fully in sync with. How is simply witnessing a scene you do not wish to see disruptive to your playing? Especially, of all places, in the Crossing Cleric Guild where you have tools at hand to remove both the corpse and the murderer from the entire area for weeks at a time.
This would be great if it actually worked if a Cleric of high enough standing could do this without waiting for another to show up. Armifer I'm not sure if you're aware but they can come right back after being tossed if they are savvy enough to know about the tunnels. The back door is WIDE OPEN.
-Entyycement
>>Exactly but why does the dark aspects leanings outway the light ones? No compromises.
The question could just as easily be posed in reverse.
>>Armifer I'm not sure if you're aware but they can come right back after being tossed if they are savvy enough to know about the tunnels. The back door is WIDE OPEN.
Meraud would probably applaud the practical application of knowledge in this case, and Damaris would probably applaud the subterfuge.
Polytheism: It makes religion fun!
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
The question could just as easily be posed in reverse.
>>Armifer I'm not sure if you're aware but they can come right back after being tossed if they are savvy enough to know about the tunnels. The back door is WIDE OPEN.
Meraud would probably applaud the practical application of knowledge in this case, and Damaris would probably applaud the subterfuge.
Polytheism: It makes religion fun!
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
>>Say if deader joe just gets his mem's back, mean old man haggard is hiding, deader joe comes back to dig his grave, and bam, mean old man haggard kills him for now the second time. deader joe gets his mems for a second time, departs, comes back again, starts digging out his now 2 graves. And than Bam, is killed again by mean old man haggard. For now the 3rd time. Deader joe gets his mems for a second time, how many times is this goin to happen? Thats what I'm understanding is happening. That in itself is disruptive.
Again, which part is disruptive? The Clerics don't need to rejuve every corpse that drop in front of them, and if the victim himself is consenting to the PvP scene, it may just be best to let the dead lie for awhile.
This is a grey area, and the GM that judicates this sort of scene may easily pick up on nuances of what's happening that simply not being transmitted on the forums. Just from this blanket description, though, if I was in that situation I would have trouble finding it disruptive when the Clerics complaining about it are at best not making any effort to end the scene with the IG tools they have available, and at worst actively perpetuating the scene.
-Armifer
"What covers all the world?"
"Darkness."
"What keeps a thing from discovering itself?"
"That is also darkness."
-Yudhishthira tested by Dharma, in the Mahabharata
Again, which part is disruptive? The Clerics don't need to rejuve every corpse that drop in front of them, and if the victim himself is consenting to the PvP scene, it may just be best to let the dead lie for awhile.
This is a grey area, and the GM that judicates this sort of scene may easily pick up on nuances of what's happening that simply not being transmitted on the forums. Just from this blanket description, though, if I was in that situation I would have trouble finding it disruptive when the Clerics complaining about it are at best not making any effort to end the scene with the IG tools they have available, and at worst actively perpetuating the scene.
-Armifer
"What covers all the world?"
"Darkness."
"What keeps a thing from discovering itself?"
"That is also darkness."
-Yudhishthira tested by Dharma, in the Mahabharata
>>Armifer I'm not sure if you're aware but they can come right back after being tossed if they are savvy enough to know about the tunnels. The back door is WIDE OPEN.
May wish to check that again sometime in the future. As far as I'm aware, that isn't an issue anymore.
-Armifer
"What covers all the world?"
"Darkness."
"What keeps a thing from discovering itself?"
"That is also darkness."
-Yudhishthira tested by Dharma, in the Mahabharata
May wish to check that again sometime in the future. As far as I'm aware, that isn't an issue anymore.
-Armifer
"What covers all the world?"
"Darkness."
"What keeps a thing from discovering itself?"
"That is also darkness."
-Yudhishthira tested by Dharma, in the Mahabharata
>>Meraud would probably applaud the practical application of knowledge in this case, and Damaris would probably applaud the subterfuge.
This is exactly what I am talking about.
We're going in ridiculous circles. One person points out mechanical ways to waylay snerts. This is a valid definition.
Then when a counter-point is made saying that the mechanics can easily be circumvented it's justified by the pantheon of DR gods and "apllicable roleplay," which apparently constitutes almost every possible thing the mind might fathom short of playing a Necromancer in the Cleric guild or saying you are Trothfang himself. The OOC mechanics and IC reasoning are separate issues, let us keep them as such.
As to the mechanical justifications, they are valid. However, they are easily circumvented and have laborious restrictions placed upon them that are often hard to accomodate during many hours of the day. Likewise I realize that there is no 'ideal solution.' If the room is made no-violence we'll have trash-talkers sometimes and people who steal there without fear of reciprocation. Considering this, I'm going to suggest both no violence and no steal in that one particular room. It's often a Triage area; the guild is large. If people wish to fight they can just step out quickly and handle their problems. I'm sorry Syralon, but just as you have no sympathy for people who wish it to be no violence I have little sympathy for your view-point because I don't honestly see the harm in making one room no-violence when even the guild itself constitutes a dozen or so other rooms open to the general public.
As for IC justification, I'm not touching that, partially because it's valid and partially because the arguments are always circular.
I can always squelch trash-talkers. I have however been attacked before without consent for rejuving the snert's enemy's corpse and that is not something I can ignore. And I really hate involving GMs, but getting into a PvP war with a snert is like arguing with an idiot.
You are Malkien, a dashing Barbarian. Huzzah!
You are Apis, a legendary Cleric in your own head.
You are Ragesong. What sort of Kaldar is a Bard, anyways, doofus?
You are also Pellazan (WM), Essatariol (Ranger) and running out of sig space.
This is exactly what I am talking about.
We're going in ridiculous circles. One person points out mechanical ways to waylay snerts. This is a valid definition.
Then when a counter-point is made saying that the mechanics can easily be circumvented it's justified by the pantheon of DR gods and "apllicable roleplay," which apparently constitutes almost every possible thing the mind might fathom short of playing a Necromancer in the Cleric guild or saying you are Trothfang himself. The OOC mechanics and IC reasoning are separate issues, let us keep them as such.
As to the mechanical justifications, they are valid. However, they are easily circumvented and have laborious restrictions placed upon them that are often hard to accomodate during many hours of the day. Likewise I realize that there is no 'ideal solution.' If the room is made no-violence we'll have trash-talkers sometimes and people who steal there without fear of reciprocation. Considering this, I'm going to suggest both no violence and no steal in that one particular room. It's often a Triage area; the guild is large. If people wish to fight they can just step out quickly and handle their problems. I'm sorry Syralon, but just as you have no sympathy for people who wish it to be no violence I have little sympathy for your view-point because I don't honestly see the harm in making one room no-violence when even the guild itself constitutes a dozen or so other rooms open to the general public.
As for IC justification, I'm not touching that, partially because it's valid and partially because the arguments are always circular.
I can always squelch trash-talkers. I have however been attacked before without consent for rejuving the snert's enemy's corpse and that is not something I can ignore. And I really hate involving GMs, but getting into a PvP war with a snert is like arguing with an idiot.
You are Malkien, a dashing Barbarian. Huzzah!
You are Apis, a legendary Cleric in your own head.
You are Ragesong. What sort of Kaldar is a Bard, anyways, doofus?
You are also Pellazan (WM), Essatariol (Ranger) and running out of sig space.
>>This is exactly what I am talking about. We're going in ridiculous circles.
I know. It's great!
>>I'm sorry Syralon, but just as you have no sympathy for people who wish it to be no violence I have little sympathy for your view-point because I don't honestly see the harm in making one room no-violence when even the guild itself constitutes a dozen or so other rooms open to the general public.
Light aspects, dark aspects. You, me. No-violence, violence.
I love being a Cleric.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
I know. It's great!
>>I'm sorry Syralon, but just as you have no sympathy for people who wish it to be no violence I have little sympathy for your view-point because I don't honestly see the harm in making one room no-violence when even the guild itself constitutes a dozen or so other rooms open to the general public.
Light aspects, dark aspects. You, me. No-violence, violence.
I love being a Cleric.
Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
Airanie whispers, "are you raising?"
>whisper air I don't deal with corpses.
Airanie whispers, "ah I'm sorry thought you were a cleric, my apologies"
