>>The explanation above the reqs says soft Augmentation ranks, but Warding is listed instead of Augmentation. I assume it is supposed to read Augmentation?

That is correct. My bad, I'll fix it.

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"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.

One lore question, since I'm not paying much attention. With a 4 lore req, does that mean we will be forced to do crafting? App, scholarship, ur-music and then crafting skills are all I can think of offhand.

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Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.

>>Tactics unless that's a hard req.

Clerics don't have a Tactics req so it's all good.

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"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.

I may have missed the discussion, but what is gonna teach Theurgy? what IS theurgy?

And rituals.

IIRC, rituals teach a little, communes will teach a lot.

Kaeta Airtag

>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear

Well in general I am good with what I know- armor, shield, second weapon. Lore…I think I will be okay- Scholarship/Appraisal/Mech Lore(crafting)/theurgy(will that count for both a lore and its own requirement?

I have concerns of course of how Theurgy will be grandfathered. And how it will be learned. Without an offensive or defensive commune, unless I am hunting undead I don’t know that I will have much reason to use communes. I am concerned that the requirement to use communes comes at the same time that I may have less incentive to use them.

Magics: The concern is how PM will be split. Should be fine but that is the big unknown.

Of course Teaching going away as a requirement(and seperate skill) is just lovely.

>>theurgy(will that count for both a lore and its own requirement?

Theurgy will be treated as a magic skill for learning purposes and is a hard requirement (meaning it only counts for its own requirement).

>>I have concerns of course of how Theurgy will be grandfathered.

Like what? It's being grandfathered in the nicest way possible.

>>And how it will be learned. Without an offensive or defensive commune, unless I am hunting undead I don’t know that I will have much reason to use communes. I am concerned that the requirement to use communes comes at the same time that I may have less incentive to use them.

The Eluned commune change will probably not make the X3 release, but hopefully it will still be something useful. As for the rest, keep in mind that the communes will award large amounts of experience with a one-hour timer. Even if you don't need them yourself, you could perform them for others between your hunting sessions and learn Theurgy well without feeling you're communing just to train.

That said, taking the time to do a bunch of different rituals may also end up being a reasonable, if not optimal, way to learn the skill. Uncommon and/or local rituals (e.g: the island ones) will teach significantly better. We could perhaps rebalance the experience awards to favor this method instead, but I really don't think most people would prefer it.

GM Grejuva

>>what communes do you expect to be live when the changes go into effect?

All except the current Tamsine one, which will become the TM bonus vs undead. The rest are only receiving changes to their scaling, using Theurgy instead of circle. Compared to now, low-level durations will go up, high-level durations will go down.

GM Grejuva

>All except the current Tamsine one, which will become the TM bonus vs undead. The rest are only receiving changes to their scaling, using Theurgy instead of circle. Compared to now, low-level durations will go up, high-level durations will go down.

Forgive me if this has been answered, but with the requirement to cast communes now (I don't feel a 'might be possible' to train something via rituals is valid), will the component aspect be going away? I feel like you've answered this before but I can't bludgeon my brain into getting it.

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Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.

All except the current Tamsine one, which will become the TM bonus vs undead. The rest are only receiving changes to their scaling, using Theurgy instead of circle. Compared to now, low-level durations will go up, high-level durations will go down.

I thought we were also loosing Eluned#1- the defense commune.

So that if I remember off the top of my head leaves us with:
a) Kertigen's
b) Meraud's
c) Hodierna's
d) Eluned #2
f) Rose commune
g) Favor commune

Of these, the only one I could see using regularly, if i wasn't hunting undead would be Hodierna's, simply because if I needed to cast any commune, I might put that up before hunting.

On the positive note- Flavius will probably be hunting undead tog zombies for the next few years, and when the new Eluned's is in place that should work fine.

>>Forgive me if this has been answered, but with the requirement to cast communes now (I don't feel a 'might be possible' to train something via rituals is valid), will the component aspect be going away?

No. We've considered a Theurgy feat that allows you to omit the material component of a commune in exchange for higher devotion cost. Even if we decide to go with it, it will be a post-release thing. This is such a unique part of the guild that I don't want to nix it lightly.

>>My concern is, if we are semi forced to use communes to learn theurgy, will the devotion hit be as big as it now? Cause if so, training theurgy will be a constant back and forth of losing devotion to communes, followed by rituals to regain devotion which affects our spell casting.

Yes, this cycle is very much the intention. Your spellcasting shouldn't suffer unless you only perform communes and neglect rituals.

>>IIRC the devotion bonus to mana is dying in 3.0, so devotion won't affect your ability to cast spells.

The harness regeneration bonus is going away, but so far the room mana bonus, which is smaller relatively and carries penalties on the lower side, is still there.

>>Sanctify Pattern (Attunement Bonus) and Persistence of Mana (bonus to max mana, bonus to regen)

Correction: SaP will boost one of the Augmentation, Warding, Debilitation, Utility skills. PoM will boost the Attunement skill and harness regeneration.

>>I thought we were also loosing Eluned#1- the defense commune.

It won't be removed until there's a replacement for it. At worst, we might downtweak it in the meantime.

>>On the positive note- Flavius will probably be hunting undead tog zombies for the next few years, and when the new Eluned's is in place that should work fine.

You mean Tamsine's. ;)

GM Grejuva

POM- I didn't realize or perhaps remember that POM was changing quite so much.

Eluned's- Glad to know that isn't going away right away- that will probably be my go to then.

like a devotional pouch?

I'm also in favor of abandoning the component requirement. Preserving it seems to be holding onto tradition just for the sake of it. The component aspect of communes doesn't appear to be popular among players at all (recalling from past conversations as well).

I am one of the laziest players out there.....and seriously components are not that big of a deal- and I use communes regularly. I have one container that I keep water in, and I keep holy oil and incense. There is always some place to get water, oil is somewhat trickier but not much.

Why anyone doesn't use the offensive commune I cannot understand. The only reason I don't use the defensive commune more is that most times I can defend fine without it, and get all the experience I need, but I get more experience from my hits using the offensive commune. Seriously, the offensive commune is almost the only reason I can tolerate using my HX- without it, the experience gain is just that much worse.

>>Honestly? Does any other guild need furniture for thier required skill useage and learning?

Yes.

>>Do Thieves need a widget to khri?

Khri no. Some ambushes yes require a non-reusable component.

>>MM a widget to learn astrology?

See: Prediction tools.

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TG, TG, GL, et al.

>See: Prediction tools.

See: a tool to increase the learning rate but not flatly required, in that percieving stellar bodies, and using the prediction system (event, weather) teaches well enough.

>Khri no. Some ambushes yes require a non-reusable component.

...dirt. They require dirt. Really? You needed to mention that they require dirt?

>I think that the solution would be less focused on getting rid of the "stuff" to make a ritual work, and maybe making it so that the "stuff" doesn't have to be so clunky to carry around. Incense is fine, but doesn't it pretty much get used in one ritual unless you snuff it fast enough? Isn't it annoying to lug around tons of oil and fish parts (there's a fish one, right?).

I believe you can snuff it, though that still uses a part. But you have to carry incense and either a flint (and a metal weapon I guess, but who doesn't?) or a lighter. Still more hassle than is warranted.

I honestly don't know if I much like the idea of being under near-constant buff status too, if I attempt to keep theurgy moving through communes. But that's probably just my own wierd hang up.

I've flogged this horse enough and my opinion is obvious. I'll stop while I'm not making an entire donkey of myself.

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Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.

>>See: Prediction tools.

If Clerics require only a single material component for all communes, I am fine with this. Maybe tie it in with the alignment system, sort of like sects use different items?

Light deities like oil, neutral deities like incense, dark deities like holy water, or something. I just don't want to have to carry around six items for my communes anymore, including a lighter and flint.

>I think that the solution would be less focused on getting rid of the "stuff" to make a ritual work, and maybe making it so that the "stuff" doesn't have to be so clunky to carry around.

This was entirely my point. The convenience isn't in the lack of components, but how they're all bundled together for ease of use and/or carrying.

I wouldn't personally put knives on the same level as Moon Mage tools, let alone ritual knickknacks.

You can spend a gold or so out the character gen and never have to worry about knives ever again. MM tools eventually break, let alone how expendable Cleric commune items are.