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I like the idea of having multiple ways of learning Empathy, however it is currently quite difficult to achieve and maintain a high 'learning rate' on anything but a wall rank. I'm going to provide some commentary on each of the ways I can think of to learn the skill with the hope that some problems may be solved.
-Link: Honestly, I didn't even notice any learning from Linking, but it was stated (by Reexa, I think) that it does indeed teach. Experience could stand to be upped quite a bit, I think, especially since Link isn't very commonly used (by me, at least).
-Percieve Health: I don't really see a problem with the amount of experience awarded per perception, but the timer(s?) on it makes it nearly impossible to raise learning rate more than one notch before it pulses back down. Perhaps something could be done about it(them?).
-Manipulate: I personally think experience award is a bit low for this considering that it can only be done a couple times before concentration is shot, and considering the inherent risk of being in combat situations to use it. It would have to be used many times successively to learn effectively (particularly on a post-wall, which is where I'm at now; it worked fine on the wall), which simply isn't possible to do.
-Bloodsuckers: To be blunt, they pretty much suck (pun intended) now. I removed four bloodworms from myself in rapid succession and neither Empathy nor First Aid raised even one learning notch from where they were at the start(pondering and learning, respectively). It's understandable that the experience from these was reduced, but I think this is a bit much.
-Shift: I haven't tried it since Empathy, but I said I'd comment on all the ways I can think of :P.
-Healing: This is the single most effective way to learn Empathy from my experience, but the problems with using it as a main source of experience have been pretty well beaten to death in the past. One's own wounds make long-term healing in order to maintain a high learning rate a pain, and in many areas there simply aren't enough patients to do that anyway. This method obviously needs to be supplemented with others.
Having said all that, I find myself impressed with the number of options available...I didn't expect there'd be that many. However, with only one of them providing a significant amount of experience (healing), it becomes discouraging to try and learn our guild-defining skill. I hope that something can be done about the learning of Empathy now that the one method we had that could actually get Transference mind locked on a post-wall rank is pretty well gone.
Thanks,
-Battle Empath Karthor
<<-Percieve Health: I don't really see a problem with the amount of experience awarded per perception, but the timer(s?) on it makes it nearly impossible to raise learning rate more than one notch before it pulses back down. Perhaps something could be done about it(them?).>>
Try "power walking" with it. There seems to be two timers on it: one for the room, and one in general. The general timer (which you can tell runs down when you stop getting the "You can't do that again yet" message) only lasts a short while. I have gotten mind locked and maintained that for some time while perceive health-walking.
<<-Manipulate: I personally think experience award is a bit low for this considering that it can only be done a couple times before concentration is shot, and considering the inherent risk of being in combat situations to use it. It would have to be used many times successively to learn effectively (particularly on a post-wall, which is where I'm at now; it worked fine on the wall), which simply isn't possible to do>>
I find I learn more or less empathy depending on what it is I manipulate. I agree that the concentration issue affects learning, but I find that if I wait until my concentration recovers from the initial dip, I can maintain more links.
Meghan
Try "power walking" with it. There seems to be two timers on it: one for the room, and one in general. The general timer (which you can tell runs down when you stop getting the "You can't do that again yet" message) only lasts a short while. I have gotten mind locked and maintained that for some time while perceive health-walking.
<<-Manipulate: I personally think experience award is a bit low for this considering that it can only be done a couple times before concentration is shot, and considering the inherent risk of being in combat situations to use it. It would have to be used many times successively to learn effectively (particularly on a post-wall, which is where I'm at now; it worked fine on the wall), which simply isn't possible to do>>
I find I learn more or less empathy depending on what it is I manipulate. I agree that the concentration issue affects learning, but I find that if I wait until my concentration recovers from the initial dip, I can maintain more links.
Meghan
Have you tried doing something along the lines of power walking with perceive health? I can perceive health about every 15 or 20 seconds, so (unless this varies by person?) you should be able to do it at least 10-12 times between pulses. I'm not into being overly scientific so I don't know whether it's being in a new room that lets you learn more, or whether it's perceiving different people. But if you wander around and perceive every couple rooms, you ought to be able to learn decently.
I'm also assuming that the greater your skill, the further you can pick up people and learn more from it, so you just might have to walk further in order to perceive new ones.
~ Chall
I'm also assuming that the greater your skill, the further you can pick up people and learn more from it, so you just might have to walk further in order to perceive new ones.
~ Chall
>Try "power walking" with it. There seems to be two timers on it: one for the room, and one in general. The general timer (which you can tell runs down when you stop getting the "You can't do that again yet" message) only lasts a short while. I have gotten mind locked and maintained that for some time while perceive health-walking.
That seems to work pretty well, thanks for the suggestion. It's not easy to find enough beings to percieve in Throne City, though, which adds the frustration of having to be in a crowded area. Nonetheless, I was able to reach very muddled after perceiving every npc I could find, which is much better than I was doing before.
-Karthor
That seems to work pretty well, thanks for the suggestion. It's not easy to find enough beings to percieve in Throne City, though, which adds the frustration of having to be in a crowded area. Nonetheless, I was able to reach very muddled after perceiving every npc I could find, which is much better than I was doing before.
-Karthor
A question about "power walking" on perc health: As far as perceiving in empty rooms goes, does it help to have a partner (friend, spouse, whatever) walking with you, or does the system see that as the same person and put a timer on them over and over even though you are perceiving in different rooms?
~Sing with all the voice of your soul~
~Sing with all the voice of your soul~
A really great place to perc-health power-walk is Horse Clan. With all of the NPCs and animals flying around there, it's become a haven for moonies to build their skills. I tried power-walking there last night and it's great having a lot of other prescences around.
You can also perc health while in combat. So, while your new rockie friend is fighting off the bad guys for you, go ahead and perc health every so often! That and try linking to anything that walks in the room. Doing it this way, I was able to keep my empathy going at a steady rate.
- Anlise
You can also perc health while in combat. So, while your new rockie friend is fighting off the bad guys for you, go ahead and perc health every so often! That and try linking to anything that walks in the room. Doing it this way, I was able to keep my empathy going at a steady rate.
- Anlise
<<-Healing:>>
Healing is and should be the most effective way to learn Empathy. It's what we Empaths know best and have been doing longest; we're so well established with it!
However, because we do realize that steady healing is not always practical or easy to find, especially in later years when you tend to travel away from crowds, other ways to learn and supplement your Empathy skill have been/will be developed.
IOW, we don't want healing to be your end-all, be-all existence, but we do hope it will continue to be an important part of you. I'd like to think that most people who stuck with the Empath Guild did so (at least in part) because they LIKE healing people.
As always, we do watch and monitor the effects different things have on the development of skill. We do read your REPORTS and BUGS and board messages (avidly in fact!); your opinions are very important.
GM Reexa
______________________________________
The kingsword will stand in its scabbard of granite
Quicksilver forged from the pools of the sky
A rumor explained by the one who began it
A boy's hand will grasp it, a man's raise it high --Heather Dale
Healing is and should be the most effective way to learn Empathy. It's what we Empaths know best and have been doing longest; we're so well established with it!
However, because we do realize that steady healing is not always practical or easy to find, especially in later years when you tend to travel away from crowds, other ways to learn and supplement your Empathy skill have been/will be developed.
IOW, we don't want healing to be your end-all, be-all existence, but we do hope it will continue to be an important part of you. I'd like to think that most people who stuck with the Empath Guild did so (at least in part) because they LIKE healing people.
As always, we do watch and monitor the effects different things have on the development of skill. We do read your REPORTS and BUGS and board messages (avidly in fact!); your opinions are very important.
GM Reexa
______________________________________
The kingsword will stand in its scabbard of granite
Quicksilver forged from the pools of the sky
A rumor explained by the one who began it
A boy's hand will grasp it, a man's raise it high --Heather Dale
Reexa,
Hi : ) I agree completely with you. I want healing to be my primary occupation... I love it. But it does not teach me very much at all. It's a hobby for me, but not a way to learn empathy nor anything I can do on a regular basis... As much as some people say, Come here, we need empaths here, I can heal someone so quickly... and there are so few someones to heal...most the time is spent just waiting around. It's not like it used to be.
I think the same thing is true for a lot of higher level empaths except those whose bonded or friends hunt over their heads. Yes, there are rare times I find myself in a position where I have lots of patients. And I really enjoy those moments, very much. Yet those moments are very rare.
It is not 'mindlocked' that I'm locking for. I know that's not a true measure of learning (I'd much rather learn after a wall rank, for instance because the skill advances much faster even if I never see mind locked). It's just consistancy and, yes, something more than learning...around the concentrating to muddled range would be nice, for healing.
Is there anything to do for high level empaths and how they learn by healing? Or must we branch out in other areas if we want to advance our skill in empathy? I do want to advance because I don't like stagnation, so I enjoy working magic (which still has very feasible and practical ways to learn past savant), brawling, combat, etc. Those things take me away from healing patients, though... which is really what I'd rather do. I'm always glad to stop while in the fields to help someone I sense is hurt...but really, we can't keep asking "Do you want healing?" over and over of every hunter we encounter in the field...it's rather demeaning.
Please forgive me if this sounds like I rant or whining... Yeah, I ramble too much. I wish I was more eloquent or articulate. Hopefully you'll see past my muddled wording and understand the message?
Thank you so much for reading through this!
Amorisse
_____________________________________________ "Can you even dye my eyes to match my gown?" ~Dorothy
For more information on empaths who shift, go to:
http://www.coalition.fairmount.nu
Hi : ) I agree completely with you. I want healing to be my primary occupation... I love it. But it does not teach me very much at all. It's a hobby for me, but not a way to learn empathy nor anything I can do on a regular basis... As much as some people say, Come here, we need empaths here, I can heal someone so quickly... and there are so few someones to heal...most the time is spent just waiting around. It's not like it used to be.
I think the same thing is true for a lot of higher level empaths except those whose bonded or friends hunt over their heads. Yes, there are rare times I find myself in a position where I have lots of patients. And I really enjoy those moments, very much. Yet those moments are very rare.
It is not 'mindlocked' that I'm locking for. I know that's not a true measure of learning (I'd much rather learn after a wall rank, for instance because the skill advances much faster even if I never see mind locked). It's just consistancy and, yes, something more than learning...around the concentrating to muddled range would be nice, for healing.
Is there anything to do for high level empaths and how they learn by healing? Or must we branch out in other areas if we want to advance our skill in empathy? I do want to advance because I don't like stagnation, so I enjoy working magic (which still has very feasible and practical ways to learn past savant), brawling, combat, etc. Those things take me away from healing patients, though... which is really what I'd rather do. I'm always glad to stop while in the fields to help someone I sense is hurt...but really, we can't keep asking "Do you want healing?" over and over of every hunter we encounter in the field...it's rather demeaning.
Please forgive me if this sounds like I rant or whining... Yeah, I ramble too much. I wish I was more eloquent or articulate. Hopefully you'll see past my muddled wording and understand the message?
Thank you so much for reading through this!
Amorisse
_____________________________________________ "Can you even dye my eyes to match my gown?" ~Dorothy
For more information on empaths who shift, go to:
http://www.coalition.fairmount.nu
Also 'Power Walk' through a hunting area, especially at higher levels. As you get more rooms, perc health is going to become much more effective at helping you track down patients. Plus, you'll be more likely to get something on your 'radar.' I also see this as a great way for empaths to keep tabs on people in their hunting area, especially if you're getting any health messaging. Sort of a 'patrol.'
Also remember, power walking is going to be more effective the more things you pick up, so early on, when you only get the empaths in the room, it's going to be a lot easier for you to heal, while later, when you're picking up the lice on critters four rooms away, power walking will become more practical.
~Y
Ever wonder about those Elotheans? Check out the library at:
http://www.bakshiloa.com
Also remember, power walking is going to be more effective the more things you pick up, so early on, when you only get the empaths in the room, it's going to be a lot easier for you to heal, while later, when you're picking up the lice on critters four rooms away, power walking will become more practical.
~Y
Ever wonder about those Elotheans? Check out the library at:
http://www.bakshiloa.com
I would just like to say that I do not have complaints about Empathy so this post is one of praise. I am glad that alternate venues are now available to Empaths to be able to learn empathy aside from the mainstream of learning it which is to heal others. I would think that taking active initiative is any empath's best bet in attaining the most that they can in empathy. In simple terms, the best approach should be proactive (and imaginative) in how you may best attain your experience...past thoughtful or pondering. The way Empathy is built now, it's not meant to be easy work (unlike the leeches before they were fixed). But it's not geared to make learning of it hard either.
I hear empaths complaining that their empathy isn't moving enough to their satisfaction or that they need more "wounded" (the latter is from empath guild in Crossings). I am not going to criticize anyone for that. Afterall, I want the same things too. But I don't think it's a matter of someone upstairs needing to turn up that learning dial. It's about me taking advantage of any and all choices available to me. I like healing others. But when the payoff isn't there to equal my enjoyment, I actively seek it out.
It does help me alot to go perceive health around frequently visited areas such as Town Hall or Town Green places, the Bank, Trader's Market place, and even to each guild (Crossings). And in between that dratted timer, I have my mortar and pestle in hand, smooshing once and then perceiving health, move somewhere else- repeat. It's boring but in less than 5 minutes and about 10-12 rooms later, I am either bewildered, perplexed, and sometimes mindlocked not only in empathy but in power perceive and mech lore. I do not plan on being a Battle Empath but I sure love the fact that I have the option to manipulate because goblin swarms are great in teaching empathy too.
I no longer sit in the guild and expect that my healing of 4-5 people in a row will bring me the results I'd like or used to see when I was 10 levels back. I know I have to do more now. Now if I had done ALL this work, and still didn't see the payoff- then I could justify my own complaint that the learning of Empathy is not up to par. Another thing to consider, make sure you invested enough in brain power (intelligence and wisdom).
I'm gonna stop here because my post just ranked in Long-Windedness.
'Lint
I hear empaths complaining that their empathy isn't moving enough to their satisfaction or that they need more "wounded" (the latter is from empath guild in Crossings). I am not going to criticize anyone for that. Afterall, I want the same things too. But I don't think it's a matter of someone upstairs needing to turn up that learning dial. It's about me taking advantage of any and all choices available to me. I like healing others. But when the payoff isn't there to equal my enjoyment, I actively seek it out.
It does help me alot to go perceive health around frequently visited areas such as Town Hall or Town Green places, the Bank, Trader's Market place, and even to each guild (Crossings). And in between that dratted timer, I have my mortar and pestle in hand, smooshing once and then perceiving health, move somewhere else- repeat. It's boring but in less than 5 minutes and about 10-12 rooms later, I am either bewildered, perplexed, and sometimes mindlocked not only in empathy but in power perceive and mech lore. I do not plan on being a Battle Empath but I sure love the fact that I have the option to manipulate because goblin swarms are great in teaching empathy too.
I no longer sit in the guild and expect that my healing of 4-5 people in a row will bring me the results I'd like or used to see when I was 10 levels back. I know I have to do more now. Now if I had done ALL this work, and still didn't see the payoff- then I could justify my own complaint that the learning of Empathy is not up to par. Another thing to consider, make sure you invested enough in brain power (intelligence and wisdom).
I'm gonna stop here because my post just ranked in Long-Windedness.
'Lint
I stand corrected, Perc Health does work very nicely now that I've learned how to use it for learning purposes. In fact, this is even better than the old leech method, as one doesn't have to go out to the middle of nowhere to do it. Oddly enough, Throne City actually lends itself nicely to it, whereas before I thought it lacked the resources for it.
-Karthor
-Karthor
>I am glad that alternate venues are now available to Empaths to be able to learn empathy...
Ditto to this! Thank you so very much!
It may be that healing folks is (and this was mentioned before anyhow) the best way to 'learn' the skill. But, I just like the fact that it's no longer the ~only~ way. It leaves the door open for all of us to step away from the healing spots and not have to completely give up our empathic studies to do so.
Who knows, we may once again see the day where hunters realize that we aren't healing them for the experience that they give, but rather because we want to. Wouldn't that be great!
Kythryn, basking in the Year of the Empath
Ditto to this! Thank you so very much!
It may be that healing folks is (and this was mentioned before anyhow) the best way to 'learn' the skill. But, I just like the fact that it's no longer the ~only~ way. It leaves the door open for all of us to step away from the healing spots and not have to completely give up our empathic studies to do so.
Who knows, we may once again see the day where hunters realize that we aren't healing them for the experience that they give, but rather because we want to. Wouldn't that be great!
Kythryn, basking in the Year of the Empath
