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I think the introduction of worms has opened the door to a wider definition of what transference really is. With that in mind, I'd love to see transference play a role in helping an empath 'deal' with hostile creatures.
I was thinking maybe along the lines of special brawling maneuvers used to lull or mildly stun the victim without damaging them. Perhaps numbing the arm so they couldn't swing a weapon, a touch to the throat that temporarily silenced them, preventing casting, etc.
Maybe we could put them in a state of unsconsciousness with enough brawling/transference skill and loot em :)
Ah, I can dream, can't I?
Shaunn
I might be wrong, but wasn't it stated that doing anything to critters that could possibly cause harm to them by others.. would never be given to us? Granted, when we heal people, we pretty much know that critters are going to be harmed soon.. as well as Guardian Spirit shoving critters into adjacent rooms (I think, anyway?) could cause them harm by whoever's in there.. but this is -actively- doing something to the critters that could hinder their chances to fight back, if at all.
No, I'm not trying to shoot the idea down, as I'd really like another avenue of getting money (ala stun 'n loot), and the fact that alot of you peoples have trained Brawling and other skills to ungodly extents with no outlet to use them as of yet, but this might be the wrong way to go.
Now, if I remember correctly, along time ago there were a few discussions on 'Empath Tracks/Paths'.. where a few people expressed that they really wanted to have seperate tracks they could join, which would essentially give a different set of Circling Reqs to advance, and then every path would have seperate spells and/or abilities all to their own to use. So.. I could see if there was a more combat-oriented Track opened, that these could be given to them as a few of their own special abilities. But then, Shaunn, you'd have to come up with ability ideas for the rest of us. :P
--Player of Suna, who wants a Track that has a 2 rank of Transference Req instead of 4.
No, I'm not trying to shoot the idea down, as I'd really like another avenue of getting money (ala stun 'n loot), and the fact that alot of you peoples have trained Brawling and other skills to ungodly extents with no outlet to use them as of yet, but this might be the wrong way to go.
Now, if I remember correctly, along time ago there were a few discussions on 'Empath Tracks/Paths'.. where a few people expressed that they really wanted to have seperate tracks they could join, which would essentially give a different set of Circling Reqs to advance, and then every path would have seperate spells and/or abilities all to their own to use. So.. I could see if there was a more combat-oriented Track opened, that these could be given to them as a few of their own special abilities. But then, Shaunn, you'd have to come up with ability ideas for the rest of us. :P
--Player of Suna, who wants a Track that has a 2 rank of Transference Req instead of 4.
I can do stuff presently to critters that allows others to harm them. I have gone hunting with my Olvi hunting group and held down gargoyles so the younger hunters could whack em easier. If that's not aiding and abetting, I don't know what is. I don't have shock, however.
How about a spell that frightens critters so bad that they ... oh wait, no more ideas from me :)
Shaunn
How about a spell that frightens critters so bad that they ... oh wait, no more ideas from me :)
Shaunn
I don't think I'm the empath who invented the technique. I am not directly causing harm to the creature. If I got harm for helping things get harmed, I doubt the empaths who patch folks up so they can go kill more critters would be writhing in pain on the empath guild floor constantly.
Shaunn
Shaunn
> I have gone hunting with my Olvi hunting group and held down gargoyles so the younger hunters could whack em easier.
I use this technique alot, too. It is especially helpful in cramped places like the spider tunnels and bone wolves. Well, cramped for folks that can't stand up or retreat in those places.
And I am certainly not the inventor of that technique.
-Baboushka, who's pinned critters for execution, sank pirate ships, gobbled live mice (yea, I bugged that) and still remains 100% shock free
I use this technique alot, too. It is especially helpful in cramped places like the spider tunnels and bone wolves. Well, cramped for folks that can't stand up or retreat in those places.
And I am certainly not the inventor of that technique.
-Baboushka, who's pinned critters for execution, sank pirate ships, gobbled live mice (yea, I bugged that) and still remains 100% shock free
I have nothing to support my theory...:P...not wading though 'The Old Boards' for it, but somewhere in the back of my mind I remember a post from Tilrythran or about him that mentioned this type of thing in regards to 'useful applications of brawling'. Also was the 'tackle your ghosting patient to the ground to tend them' manuver...
Kythryn
Kythryn
Woosh,
Sorry I've been out, guys. Just when you think you've got one thing done in preparation to move internationally, you remember about 10 more, so I've only been able to peek in DR this past week and have hardly had time to get to the boards. Sigh.
The bottom line that we've been developing under for Empaths is to produce 'no harm' abilities, no harm being strictly confined to no physical harm. We don't mind immobilization, we don't mind making folks feel slightly weird or tired, but we're anti-paper cuts. It kinda stinks at times, but we'd be too powerful otherwise.
I guess I'll stray from that line noting that if we ever release Empath abilities that harm people, you're going to get substantial shock. Since you guys don't like shock and have no way to get rid of the scar yet, we're not interested in developing in that direction at all for now. Those who want to take that as a breath of hope can; those who want to be realists and recognize that as a "no", feel free.
Nionon
Sorry I've been out, guys. Just when you think you've got one thing done in preparation to move internationally, you remember about 10 more, so I've only been able to peek in DR this past week and have hardly had time to get to the boards. Sigh.
The bottom line that we've been developing under for Empaths is to produce 'no harm' abilities, no harm being strictly confined to no physical harm. We don't mind immobilization, we don't mind making folks feel slightly weird or tired, but we're anti-paper cuts. It kinda stinks at times, but we'd be too powerful otherwise.
I guess I'll stray from that line noting that if we ever release Empath abilities that harm people, you're going to get substantial shock. Since you guys don't like shock and have no way to get rid of the scar yet, we're not interested in developing in that direction at all for now. Those who want to take that as a breath of hope can; those who want to be realists and recognize that as a "no", feel free.
Nionon
<<The bottom line that we've been developing under for Empaths is to produce 'no harm' abilities, no harm being strictly confined to no physical harm. We don't mind immobilization, we don't mind making folks feel slightly weird or tired, but we're anti-paper cuts. It kinda stinks at times, but we'd be too powerful otherwise.>>
Is it so much physical harm or more like physical harm to life? Why should harming undead cause shock?
And...in what way do you feel we'd be too powerful? If it's because we can heal ourselves as fast as we get wounded I don't agree. I can go hunting with my husband or, frankly, anyone and keep them perpetually wound-free. In a decent mana spot we'll never have to leave for wound-purposes. If that doesn't make my hunting partner "too powerful" why should it make me too powerful?
And what about combat stuff for us? I don't want mishy-mashy passive crap, Nionon. I want something like EMA, that puts my enemy out of commission for a short period. It doesn't harm them, it simply means they are no longer a threat. I want to actually HUNT undead. They aren't living so I shouldn't get shock. I want to be able to learn ranged bow weapons in an archery setting. I want to be able to feint using melee weapons to learn better. I want to be able to tourney.
How comes the rewrites for GS and innocence? Are any of the plethora of ideas our guild had being taken into consideration?
Throw us a bone here, please.
~Maddie
Is it so much physical harm or more like physical harm to life? Why should harming undead cause shock?
And...in what way do you feel we'd be too powerful? If it's because we can heal ourselves as fast as we get wounded I don't agree. I can go hunting with my husband or, frankly, anyone and keep them perpetually wound-free. In a decent mana spot we'll never have to leave for wound-purposes. If that doesn't make my hunting partner "too powerful" why should it make me too powerful?
And what about combat stuff for us? I don't want mishy-mashy passive crap, Nionon. I want something like EMA, that puts my enemy out of commission for a short period. It doesn't harm them, it simply means they are no longer a threat. I want to actually HUNT undead. They aren't living so I shouldn't get shock. I want to be able to learn ranged bow weapons in an archery setting. I want to be able to feint using melee weapons to learn better. I want to be able to tourney.
How comes the rewrites for GS and innocence? Are any of the plethora of ideas our guild had being taken into consideration?
Throw us a bone here, please.
~Maddie
>It kinda stinks at times, but we'd be too powerful otherwise.
Too powerful compared to what?
I believe we would probably still be below traders on the combat totem pole as far as combat goes. As Maddie states we can keep members of the combat guilds almost entirely wound free. Yet they still have a chance to die unless they are hunting incredibly below there level. The only thing empaths can really prevent in a combat situation is death to paper cuts (and poison.) The majority of death I witness in combat are to stun, crit, kill. At least after you progress to something bigger than a grendal.
I don't see self healing as something that's going to save you. At least not in the totally overpowering in the since you seem to believe it is.
And I don't believe you've remotely held yourself to no harm. A better definition would have to be no combat. The arguement has been made a 1000 times that undead cannot be harmed. They have no nervous system, they don't bleed, they don't have a concept of death. And take that a step forward to non-coporeal entities. Obviously they don't have a nervous system, they are gaseous clouds. Or rock guardians, in the very description they are said to appear as constructs (assuming they are such). We can't hurt rock guardians, by the same logic we would never rub runes for fear of crumbling rocks imbued with magic.
Too powerful compared to what?
I believe we would probably still be below traders on the combat totem pole as far as combat goes. As Maddie states we can keep members of the combat guilds almost entirely wound free. Yet they still have a chance to die unless they are hunting incredibly below there level. The only thing empaths can really prevent in a combat situation is death to paper cuts (and poison.) The majority of death I witness in combat are to stun, crit, kill. At least after you progress to something bigger than a grendal.
I don't see self healing as something that's going to save you. At least not in the totally overpowering in the since you seem to believe it is.
And I don't believe you've remotely held yourself to no harm. A better definition would have to be no combat. The arguement has been made a 1000 times that undead cannot be harmed. They have no nervous system, they don't bleed, they don't have a concept of death. And take that a step forward to non-coporeal entities. Obviously they don't have a nervous system, they are gaseous clouds. Or rock guardians, in the very description they are said to appear as constructs (assuming they are such). We can't hurt rock guardians, by the same logic we would never rub runes for fear of crumbling rocks imbued with magic.
<<Too powerful compared to what?>>
I too am wondering about that.
Combat Death cannot be preventing via Empath Healing alone (Dragging of course works).
Near ever Combat Death is at the hands of a stun/critical hit, which...by itself dosent kill you. Its the balance loss that kills you, resulting in X creature being able to finish you unless you can get that back fast.
Being able to heal yourself in combat will do you no good. It cannot prevent the balance loss, the lack of any true skill to defend yourself while stunned...etc.
I too am wondering about that.
Combat Death cannot be preventing via Empath Healing alone (Dragging of course works).
Near ever Combat Death is at the hands of a stun/critical hit, which...by itself dosent kill you. Its the balance loss that kills you, resulting in X creature being able to finish you unless you can get that back fast.
Being able to heal yourself in combat will do you no good. It cannot prevent the balance loss, the lack of any true skill to defend yourself while stunned...etc.
Well, we did get a couple posts... so I guess I'll post again. I hope this means more frequent communication and feed back.
I have to agree with Irrad here. I've been saying for ages... wounds and bleeding to death are rarely the cause of Elanthian death. If so, I'd never die even doing purely defensive maneuvers.
I think its time for a change when we consider what shock is, and whether its even necessary. Yes, one can say the RP has always dictated that shock -must- exist. But in a magical world like Elanthia, it can always cease to exist as well.
I can foresee RP events where empaths learn to heal without shock because of X Y or Z. People thought the magic system would never change. People were wrong. People think there will always be shock. They can be equally as wrong.
Give me reasons (other than the same old: "Violence would disturb our sensitivity of life with others") why shock should be there. And please back it up with examples and scenarios. As of now, I can not comprehend it. I think for years and years I just accepted shock as something that just was.
This question is specifically for our GMs. Do you think there will ever be a day when shock will be removed? Come on and be honest here? I think squashing my hopes of being able to kill goblins and such now and for good will be better than having me rant endlessly.
G'night,
Shaunn
I have to agree with Irrad here. I've been saying for ages... wounds and bleeding to death are rarely the cause of Elanthian death. If so, I'd never die even doing purely defensive maneuvers.
I think its time for a change when we consider what shock is, and whether its even necessary. Yes, one can say the RP has always dictated that shock -must- exist. But in a magical world like Elanthia, it can always cease to exist as well.
I can foresee RP events where empaths learn to heal without shock because of X Y or Z. People thought the magic system would never change. People were wrong. People think there will always be shock. They can be equally as wrong.
Give me reasons (other than the same old: "Violence would disturb our sensitivity of life with others") why shock should be there. And please back it up with examples and scenarios. As of now, I can not comprehend it. I think for years and years I just accepted shock as something that just was.
This question is specifically for our GMs. Do you think there will ever be a day when shock will be removed? Come on and be honest here? I think squashing my hopes of being able to kill goblins and such now and for good will be better than having me rant endlessly.
G'night,
Shaunn
>The bottom line that we've been developing under for Empaths is to produce 'no harm' abilities, no harm being strictly confined to no physical harm. We don't mind immobilization, we don't mind making folks feel slightly weird or tired, but we're anti-paper cuts. It kinda stinks at times, but we'd be too powerful otherwise.
Well, then disable our healing abilities for a while and make it last for 10 mins after we are done hunting. That way we'd be at the same level as everybody else.
I'm a little confused, is the possibility of giving Empaths access to undead hunting a non-discussion topic, or is it something that would be open for debate if the tradeoffs were fair?
Vikr
Well, then disable our healing abilities for a while and make it last for 10 mins after we are done hunting. That way we'd be at the same level as everybody else.
I'm a little confused, is the possibility of giving Empaths access to undead hunting a non-discussion topic, or is it something that would be open for debate if the tradeoffs were fair?
Vikr
Baboushka, being the god-fearing pissant that she is, will always consider the undead as affronts to nature and abominations to Hodierna. Killing (releasing, healing, whatever word you'd like to use) the undead would honor her oath to life, not break it.
> The bottom line that we've been developing under for Empaths is to produce 'no harm' abilities, no harm being strictly confined to no physical harm.
One could make an argument about corporeal undead - are zombies "alive"? - but spirits and tortured souls? I still haven't heard ANY explanation, good or bad, on why these things are considered 'life'. Aren't they the very antithesis of life? If they aren't physical, how can they even feel physical pain?
> It kinda stinks at times, but we'd be too powerful otherwise.
Seeing that our guild is weapon and armor tert, with virtually no buff spells or abilities, it's pretty laughable imagining a fighting empath labeled "too powerful". You don't see armies of invincible Empaths roaming through Gemstone slaying all who stand in their way (snickers). You DO see paladins increasing their vitality pools, barbarians dancing their way to health and riches, etc. I don't want to rehash the pseudo-empathic abilities argument, or the arguments about how empaths have no access to new treasure (scrolls, gweths, alteration tickets, etc. etc.), but don't talk to me about "too powerful" and not expect me to feel insulted.
Besides, even if empaths were allowed to combat undead, many empaths would probably choose NOT to fight - why not let us roleplay this choice <gasps!>. I know it's not exactly a concept traditionally encouraged in the Empath guild, but not all of us prefer to smile serenely in a garden or weep dramatically in a battle field.
I DARE YOU: In fact, I double dare you. Turn off empathic shock for one day (a new Asketi's Ride event?). Let all in the Realms know it. See what happens.
-Baboushka
> The bottom line that we've been developing under for Empaths is to produce 'no harm' abilities, no harm being strictly confined to no physical harm.
One could make an argument about corporeal undead - are zombies "alive"? - but spirits and tortured souls? I still haven't heard ANY explanation, good or bad, on why these things are considered 'life'. Aren't they the very antithesis of life? If they aren't physical, how can they even feel physical pain?
> It kinda stinks at times, but we'd be too powerful otherwise.
Seeing that our guild is weapon and armor tert, with virtually no buff spells or abilities, it's pretty laughable imagining a fighting empath labeled "too powerful". You don't see armies of invincible Empaths roaming through Gemstone slaying all who stand in their way (snickers). You DO see paladins increasing their vitality pools, barbarians dancing their way to health and riches, etc. I don't want to rehash the pseudo-empathic abilities argument, or the arguments about how empaths have no access to new treasure (scrolls, gweths, alteration tickets, etc. etc.), but don't talk to me about "too powerful" and not expect me to feel insulted.
Besides, even if empaths were allowed to combat undead, many empaths would probably choose NOT to fight - why not let us roleplay this choice <gasps!>. I know it's not exactly a concept traditionally encouraged in the Empath guild, but not all of us prefer to smile serenely in a garden or weep dramatically in a battle field.
I DARE YOU: In fact, I double dare you. Turn off empathic shock for one day (a new Asketi's Ride event?). Let all in the Realms know it. See what happens.
-Baboushka
<<Aren't they the very antithesis of life? If they aren't physical, how can they even feel physical pain?>>
I consider stunning as a good basis of if a creature is alive or not.
If you cant stun a creature, chances are its a magical construct, or undead. There are a few rare exceptions (swamp trolls) but overall, thats how I consider it.
I mean, stunning a creature involves it going into a traumatic shock... how can a non living creature do that?
I consider stunning as a good basis of if a creature is alive or not.
If you cant stun a creature, chances are its a magical construct, or undead. There are a few rare exceptions (swamp trolls) but overall, thats how I consider it.
I mean, stunning a creature involves it going into a traumatic shock... how can a non living creature do that?
Greetings Suna.
>No, I'm not trying to shoot the idea down, as I'd really like another avenue of getting money (ala stun 'n loot), and the fact that alot of you peoples have trained Brawling and other skills to ungodly extents with no outlet to use them as of yet, but this might be the wrong way to go.
If you didn't already, you should read my suggestion about hunting hirelings in the General discussion topic.
Dorelan
>No, I'm not trying to shoot the idea down, as I'd really like another avenue of getting money (ala stun 'n loot), and the fact that alot of you peoples have trained Brawling and other skills to ungodly extents with no outlet to use them as of yet, but this might be the wrong way to go.
If you didn't already, you should read my suggestion about hunting hirelings in the General discussion topic.
Dorelan
