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I picked up Anthers Call and didn't bother checking prior to casting it to see if it would cause shock. The markers are all there, so, admittedly mea culpa, I should have known before casting. However, I'm a bit curious what marks Anthers Call, thematically, different from Lethargy or Nissa's Binding with respect to causing shock. It seems to me that some debilitation spells are distinctly non-violent in their theme and mechanic, and should perhaps be reviewed for causing shock. I see little difference mechanically or thematically between sapping someone's energy or forcing them to fall asleep, and using earthen hands to hold them in place.
Are there any non-empathic debilitation spells that are non-shocking?
This probably shouldn't cause shock. Not all Magic Devs are super familiar with Empathic shock, and what should and should not cause it, so not all spells are flagged correctly. If you'd like the shock removed, please ASSIST and someone should be able to take care of it.
I'll look at getting the spell updated.
If anyone is aware of spells similar to this, let me know. I know swarm was a problem in pre-3.1, but I believe it's signature now so that at least is moot.
Melete
Nature, it seems, is the popular name
for milliards and milliards and milliards
of particles playing their infinite game
of billiards and billiards and billiards.
I'll look at getting the spell updated.
If anyone is aware of spells similar to this, let me know. I know swarm was a problem in pre-3.1, but I believe it's signature now so that at least is moot.
Melete
Nature, it seems, is the popular name
for milliards and milliards and milliards
of particles playing their infinite game
of billiards and billiards and billiards.
>>Neat thanks. What's the plan on what debilitations are and aren't shocking?
It's kind of a complex question that has to be handled on a case by case basis by a GM who understands the shock lore.
For instance, a thing that stuns someone wouldn't be shocking (probably) if it used a flash of light as the 'stun' mechanism (dazzle). It would be shocking if it induced acute psychic pain (mind shout, maybe?).
A spell that induces sleep like NB is not shocking, a spell that induces sleep by dropping a tree on your head while leaving you miraculously uninjured would nevertheless be shocking.
A spell that creates a poison cloud around someone would (probably) be shocking. A spell that summons a giant bee faerie that stings the heck out of the target would not be shocking.
It basically comes down to the lore of the spell (in a lot of cases) rather than the actual effects of the spell.
If the empath, by casting the spell, is the agent of direct, physical harm to another living entity, then generally that will be shocking. Sometimes non-physical harm can also be shocking, though.
The devil is in the details. Is extreme nausea a physical harm? What if you make someone go completely numb, causing them to be more likely to hurt themselves? What if you shift one of their legs to be just a little shorter than the other, causing them to be slightly off balance? Is that direct, physical harm? What if you were able to, somehow, reawaken someone's latent empathy, causing them to experience the pain of all those around them? Is making someone into an Empath a direct harm to them? It's a tough call sometimes.
Melete
Nature, it seems, is the popular name
for milliards and milliards and milliards
of particles playing their infinite game
of billiards and billiards and billiards.
It's kind of a complex question that has to be handled on a case by case basis by a GM who understands the shock lore.
For instance, a thing that stuns someone wouldn't be shocking (probably) if it used a flash of light as the 'stun' mechanism (dazzle). It would be shocking if it induced acute psychic pain (mind shout, maybe?).
A spell that induces sleep like NB is not shocking, a spell that induces sleep by dropping a tree on your head while leaving you miraculously uninjured would nevertheless be shocking.
A spell that creates a poison cloud around someone would (probably) be shocking. A spell that summons a giant bee faerie that stings the heck out of the target would not be shocking.
It basically comes down to the lore of the spell (in a lot of cases) rather than the actual effects of the spell.
If the empath, by casting the spell, is the agent of direct, physical harm to another living entity, then generally that will be shocking. Sometimes non-physical harm can also be shocking, though.
The devil is in the details. Is extreme nausea a physical harm? What if you make someone go completely numb, causing them to be more likely to hurt themselves? What if you shift one of their legs to be just a little shorter than the other, causing them to be slightly off balance? Is that direct, physical harm? What if you were able to, somehow, reawaken someone's latent empathy, causing them to experience the pain of all those around them? Is making someone into an Empath a direct harm to them? It's a tough call sometimes.
Melete
Nature, it seems, is the popular name
for milliards and milliards and milliards
of particles playing their infinite game
of billiards and billiards and billiards.
>>What if you were able to, somehow, reawaken someone's latent empathy, causing them to experience the pain of all those around them? Is making someone into an Empath a direct harm to them?
Waaaaant. Do want. Don't taunt me with nice things I can't have.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Waaaaant. Do want. Don't taunt me with nice things I can't have.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
<<>>What if you were able to, somehow, reawaken someone's latent empathy, causing them to experience the pain of all those around them? Is making someone into an Empath a direct harm to them?
<<Waaaaant. Do want. Don't taunt me with nice things I can't have.
I know explicit sorcery been decreed as a Primary Magic only thing, but that just smacks of an Empath Sorcery spell. Sort of along the lines of forced shifting.
<<Waaaaant. Do want. Don't taunt me with nice things I can't have.
I know explicit sorcery been decreed as a Primary Magic only thing, but that just smacks of an Empath Sorcery spell. Sort of along the lines of forced shifting.
There's not really a compelling need, as far as I can see, for a spell that does something like that to be a sorcery. That seems like something entirely within the realm of life magic.
A spell can be nasty or cruel without being sorcery. See Partial Displacement for the classic example.
As for if this is a direction we'd want to take Empathic magic - I leave that to Melete.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
A spell can be nasty or cruel without being sorcery. See Partial Displacement for the classic example.
As for if this is a direction we'd want to take Empathic magic - I leave that to Melete.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
<<A spell can be nasty or cruel without being sorcery. See Partial Displacement for the classic example.
I was thinking more along the lines of it manipulating the empathic compound rather than just being nasty. Imparting for a fraction of a second the ability to sense things as an empath has a lot of similarity to the way teleologic sorcery forces the connection to the plane of probability on someone, for example.
I was thinking more along the lines of it manipulating the empathic compound rather than just being nasty. Imparting for a fraction of a second the ability to sense things as an empath has a lot of similarity to the way teleologic sorcery forces the connection to the plane of probability on someone, for example.
This begs a question ... is empathy a product of life magic, or is it an entirely separate things that just happens to work well and in tandem with life magic? I always viewed the two as separate, personally. Makes more sense to me because otherwise what would stop empaths from being able to just skip the transference part completely and heal wounds directly? And what would stop a Ranger from learning Empathy?
Also, I'm generally against anything that makes Empaths more hostile, for what I hope are obvious reasons.
Also, I'm generally against anything that makes Empaths more hostile, for what I hope are obvious reasons.
<<This begs a question ... is empathy a product of life magic, or is it an entirely separate things that just happens to work well and in tandem with life magic? I always viewed the two as separate, personally. Makes more sense to me because otherwise what would stop empaths from being able to just skip the transference part completely and heal wounds directly? And what would stop a Ranger from learning Empathy?
I would assume separate, just like Lunar Magic and the connection to the Plane of Probability are separate. You don't need any connection to the Plane of Probability to cast Shadows or sense how much mana Katamba is providing for example. That said, because people are resourceful there are magics that have been developed to make use of that connection and so we call those signature spells, since only those with the connection can cast them.
I would assume separate, just like Lunar Magic and the connection to the Plane of Probability are separate. You don't need any connection to the Plane of Probability to cast Shadows or sense how much mana Katamba is providing for example. That said, because people are resourceful there are magics that have been developed to make use of that connection and so we call those signature spells, since only those with the connection can cast them.
>>Stellarmagus: is empathy a product of life magic, or is it an entirely separate things that just happens to work well and in tandem with life magic? I always viewed the two as separate, personally. Makes more sense to me because otherwise what would stop empaths from being able to just skip the transference part completely and heal wounds directly? And what would stop a Ranger from learning Empathy?
Empathy is a supernatural connection to life essences. Salvur described it as "almost a breaking-down of the separation between two beings, at least for a highly skilled empath." This ability that is distinct from life magic, although some Empath spells require empathy to work.
>>DR-Raesh: As for if this is a direction we'd want to take Empathic magic - I leave that to Melete.
"That said, weaponized Empathy is not a thing the Empath guild is going to be comfortable with anytime soon, so even if something like that existed it would have to be on the margins and not something taught by the guild proper." --GM Melete (11/22/2012)
You feel your Heart Link with a mug of zombie's revenge fade away.
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
Empathy is a supernatural connection to life essences. Salvur described it as "almost a breaking-down of the separation between two beings, at least for a highly skilled empath." This ability that is distinct from life magic, although some Empath spells require empathy to work.
>>DR-Raesh: As for if this is a direction we'd want to take Empathic magic - I leave that to Melete.
"That said, weaponized Empathy is not a thing the Empath guild is going to be comfortable with anytime soon, so even if something like that existed it would have to be on the margins and not something taught by the guild proper." --GM Melete (11/22/2012)
You feel your Heart Link with a mug of zombie's revenge fade away.
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
>>>> This begs a question ... is empathy a product of life magic, or is it an entirely separate things that just happens to work well and in tandem with life magic?
I have always thought that the confounds were all distinct from their mana type, but that they are also closely tied to it. For example, one can have life spells and empathy-dependant life spells. At the same time, I have assumed that an empathy-dependant elemental spell is something that isn't possible.
I have always thought that the confounds were all distinct from their mana type, but that they are also closely tied to it. For example, one can have life spells and empathy-dependant life spells. At the same time, I have assumed that an empathy-dependant elemental spell is something that isn't possible.
Oh, absolutely. It'd have to be a quest or scroll spell or something, but that doesn't make it a sorcery.
As for Empathy, everyone is burn with a very small amount of it but most people have that shocked away almost instantly. But, in theory, it could be reawakened and that seems like a Life magic thing to me (And as usual, I may be wrong - Melete is the authority here).
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
As for Empathy, everyone is burn with a very small amount of it but most people have that shocked away almost instantly. But, in theory, it could be reawakened and that seems like a Life magic thing to me (And as usual, I may be wrong - Melete is the authority here).
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
<<As for Empathy, everyone is burn with a very small amount of it but most people have that shocked away almost instantly. But, in theory, it could be reawakened and that seems like a Life magic thing to me (And as usual, I may be wrong - Melete is the authority here).
I don't really have any investment either way, just thought it was a neat thematic concept that might be explored. A shocked empath for example could make use of a sorcery to imperfectly reawaken their empathic connection temporarily. Or you could force someone to experience the empathic connection with every action they do causing them to stun themselves with every offensive attack for a short period.
I suppose sorcerous empathy already exists as necromancy in a way, and I know that secondary magic users aren't going to get access to sorcery directly anyway so this is more of a fun thought experiment than anything else.
I don't really have any investment either way, just thought it was a neat thematic concept that might be explored. A shocked empath for example could make use of a sorcery to imperfectly reawaken their empathic connection temporarily. Or you could force someone to experience the empathic connection with every action they do causing them to stun themselves with every offensive attack for a short period.
I suppose sorcerous empathy already exists as necromancy in a way, and I know that secondary magic users aren't going to get access to sorcery directly anyway so this is more of a fun thought experiment than anything else.
>> is empathy a product of life magic,
Theoretically you can be an Empath without having magic, you'll just have a hard time dealing with any wounds you manage to transfer. The true nature of Empathy is still the subject of scholarly debate in game, and it's a bit confusing and contradictory even to those who are familiar with it.
Melete
Nature, it seems, is the popular name
for milliards and milliards and milliards
of particles playing their infinite game
of billiards and billiards and billiards.
Theoretically you can be an Empath without having magic, you'll just have a hard time dealing with any wounds you manage to transfer. The true nature of Empathy is still the subject of scholarly debate in game, and it's a bit confusing and contradictory even to those who are familiar with it.
Melete
Nature, it seems, is the popular name
for milliards and milliards and milliards
of particles playing their infinite game
of billiards and billiards and billiards.
>Theoretically you can be an Empath without having magic, you'll just have a hard time dealing with any wounds you manage to transfer. The true nature of Empathy is still the subject of scholarly debate in game, and it's a bit confusing and contradictory even to those who are familiar with it.
Thanatology is a perversion of that link, so, would it be possible to have a Necromancer whose empathy was intact enough to heal people, but required Consume Flesh and a corpse to heal themselves? Thanatology isn't like 'Empathy for the dead', is it?
Thanatology is a perversion of that link, so, would it be possible to have a Necromancer whose empathy was intact enough to heal people, but required Consume Flesh and a corpse to heal themselves? Thanatology isn't like 'Empathy for the dead', is it?
>>Thanatology is a perversion of that link, so, would it be possible to have a Necromancer whose empathy was intact enough to heal people, but required Consume Flesh and a corpse to heal themselves? Thanatology isn't like 'Empathy for the dead', is it?
This is more an Abasha/Persida/Armifer question but I don't think it'd be possible. Empathy and Necromancy are antithetical, though they do draw from the same well, so it seems like you'd have a matter/antimatter sort of situation if you tried to combine the two in one vessel.
I think a person who actually understands the link and is not just blindly groping for outcomes without the fullness of the empathic sense could potentially be a pretty capable necromancer, but I am pretty sure at that point they would not be an Empath any longer, but a former empath.
But there are no Necromancers who started out as Empaths. For some reason.
Melete
Nature, it seems, is the popular name
for milliards and milliards and milliards
of particles playing their infinite game
of billiards and billiards and billiards.
This is more an Abasha/Persida/Armifer question but I don't think it'd be possible. Empathy and Necromancy are antithetical, though they do draw from the same well, so it seems like you'd have a matter/antimatter sort of situation if you tried to combine the two in one vessel.
I think a person who actually understands the link and is not just blindly groping for outcomes without the fullness of the empathic sense could potentially be a pretty capable necromancer, but I am pretty sure at that point they would not be an Empath any longer, but a former empath.
But there are no Necromancers who started out as Empaths. For some reason.
Melete
Nature, it seems, is the popular name
for milliards and milliards and milliards
of particles playing their infinite game
of billiards and billiards and billiards.
>I think a person who actually understands the link and is not just blindly groping for outcomes without the fullness of the empathic sense could potentially be a pretty capable necromancer, but I am pretty sure at that point they would not be an Empath any longer, but a former empath.
Heh. Thanatology is the Sorcery of Empathy.
Weapons for Sale:
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Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Heh. Thanatology is the Sorcery of Empathy.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
>>This is more an Abasha/Persida/Armifer question but I don't think it'd be possible. Empathy and Necromancy are antithetical, though they do draw from the same well, so it seems like you'd have a matter/antimatter sort of situation if you tried to combine the two in one vessel.
This is pretty spot on. An Empath who attempted to do a thanatological ritual would strain their Empathic talent to the point of breaking. Plus...
>>But there are no Necromancers who started out as Empaths. For some reason.
...they would disappear and never be seen again.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
This is pretty spot on. An Empath who attempted to do a thanatological ritual would strain their Empathic talent to the point of breaking. Plus...
>>But there are no Necromancers who started out as Empaths. For some reason.
...they would disappear and never be seen again.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
>>I think a person who actually understands the link and is not just blindly groping for outcomes without the fullness of the empathic sense could potentially be a pretty capable necromancer, but I am pretty sure at that point they would not be an Empath any longer, but a former empath.
To clarify this a bit -- I meant that at this point, I believe the person would no longer have an Empathic sense, but their knowledge of how it all works might be helpful to them in their necromancing. That's actually how the soft-shock spells are supposed to work. Intact empathy helps, but even if you've lost it, you know enough about how it's meant to go that you can manage.
But again, all hypothetical.
>>...they would disappear and never be seen again.
Mysteries!
Melete
Nature, it seems, is the popular name
for milliards and milliards and milliards
of particles playing their infinite game
of billiards and billiards and billiards.
To clarify this a bit -- I meant that at this point, I believe the person would no longer have an Empathic sense, but their knowledge of how it all works might be helpful to them in their necromancing. That's actually how the soft-shock spells are supposed to work. Intact empathy helps, but even if you've lost it, you know enough about how it's meant to go that you can manage.
But again, all hypothetical.
>>...they would disappear and never be seen again.
Mysteries!
Melete
Nature, it seems, is the popular name
for milliards and milliards and milliards
of particles playing their infinite game
of billiards and billiards and billiards.
>>Heh. Thanatology is the Sorcery of Empathy.
In one sense this is extremely accurate. Empathy is an invisible force to the Necromancer, who draws it down to form thanatological links of a sort that were never, ever meant to be.
In another sense it's rather dissimilar, in that the thanatological link is a very practiced, occult (almost religious...) ritual and not a result of an emotional kick.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
In one sense this is extremely accurate. Empathy is an invisible force to the Necromancer, who draws it down to form thanatological links of a sort that were never, ever meant to be.
In another sense it's rather dissimilar, in that the thanatological link is a very practiced, occult (almost religious...) ritual and not a result of an emotional kick.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Where does Shifting lie in the Empathy/Thanatology framework if it does at all? Is its illegal status due to being perceived as an entry point to corruption of the link, sort of like with sorcerous casting and Sorcery? Or is it more a more mundane contraband, in place because we don't like the criminal implications of people being able to erase their visual identity or make themselves look like the Baron of Therengia?
>>Where does Shifting lie in the Empathy/Thanatology framework if it does at all?
It doesn't. Shifting is merely an illegal form of Empathy, it has nothing to do with Thanathology.
That said, Necromancers are known to emulate some of the features of Shifting in their own strange ways; age modification is within necromancy's purview, and there's been serious hints dropped that advanced Necromancers can modify the appearance of their Risen. But they do this through their own means, not through Shifting itself.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
It doesn't. Shifting is merely an illegal form of Empathy, it has nothing to do with Thanathology.
That said, Necromancers are known to emulate some of the features of Shifting in their own strange ways; age modification is within necromancy's purview, and there's been serious hints dropped that advanced Necromancers can modify the appearance of their Risen. But they do this through their own means, not through Shifting itself.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
>>Where does Shifting lie in the Empathy/Thanatology framework if it does at all? Is its illegal status due to being perceived as an entry point to corruption of the link, sort of like with sorcerous casting and Sorcery? Or is it more a more mundane contraband, in place because we don't like the criminal implications of people being able to erase their visual identity or make themselves look like the Baron of Therengia?
Part of me wished to see Armifer just respond with "yes" because boogabooga mystery ambiguity, even though he didn't. Hah.
Just as some interesting points of note, there have been rather bizarre Empathic events that resulted in Empaths just kinda... flying into the sky and going away.
Some samples below. No idea if it's still canon but I don't know why it wouldn't be.
Trylaine: One of the "First Empaths"
Captain Jourok told someone over the gweth to watch out for...something, just before he was struck down. Later we saw from the docks a large tortoise with a cloaked figure riding atop it disembark from the sea. This turned out to be Trylaine, a very old and insanely skilled empath who spoke to some distant beings that we could not hear or see, but could see us and communicate to him. Kaith Partani Edenlaen herself seemed greatly impressed by this Elder. He changed race, age, and sex several times without effort, healed all wounds instantly with a touch, and was on some sort of mission.
Seeking quiet, he advised the many adventurers not to make too much noise or movement when hearing "them" coming. We then heard the sounds of stomping and arming drawing near while at the cove near Denison's Pub. Trylaine then took Edenlaen with him after instructing everyone to hide and remain silent and met a cyclops! After instructing her to stand up to the beast without fear, though not letting it hit her, she seemed to be the first to learn from Trylaine the ability to befriend beasts! The Cyclops no longer wished to attack her and after a while several other empaths were given the same instructions from this legend Trylaine (many were slain trying, but returned alive with Trylaine). He eventually had to leave as he stated his time was up and he had to move on to other duties elsewhere, ascending into the heavens and leaving us all in awe and wonder.
(https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Trylaine)
Ambent: Trylaine's granddaughter
She introduced herself as Ambent, and said that she'd been singing to them all in hopes of drawing them to find Timothy, that the fact that they had done so proved to her that they cared for him and his welfare, and that she was safe in passing his care to them. She mentioned his extremely special nature, that he was able to heal something no one else could see. She also mentioned that she could heal his madness from him, but that she feared the flood of memories underneath would destroy him completely, and that his destiny was for larger things.
She revealed that, as a child, she had been found by Timothy and his wife Penelope...that she had been singing the song she sang to them all now, and that she had told them her grandfather had taught her to sing it. She also revealed clues to indicate that, as told by Timothy earlier, she was the last child alive in Sicle Grove, and that she had died in his arms. Though circumstances beyond them had removed her from him physically, she apparently was not finished yet with her reason for coming to him in the first place, and had been near him in some sense ever since.
She also said that he reminded her of her grandfather, Trylaine (did anyone present notice that she bore some resemblance to Trylaine herself? Like her grandfather, Ambent's hair color Shifted automatically...though it was only her hair and nothing else); and then, with great sadness, she said she needed to leave him in their hands, and bid them promise her to take care. With a tearful goodbye, she ascended to another plane of existence (or so they say), leaving Ahspia in wonder, Timothy in tears, and everyone else scramblings for the fireflies she left behind.
(https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:The_Timothy_Event_(aka:_What_the_heck_happened%3F)_-_2/5/2007_-_19:57:38)
First Empaths: Really, the first ones!
We agreed. We should have never have retreated so far from society as to allow what has happened to happen. We grew apart in our power, as our power made us grow apart. Now it is too late. We can no longer live amongst the beings of this world. We can barely tolerate contact with one another, even at such distances, yet we cannot be alone. Never alone. We, who healed so many, can never be healed. Our gifts have grown too strong to be blocked, or even dulled for more than moments. And yet, we must face up to our responsibilities. One of us shall be chosen, and we shall cast that one out, may we somehow forgive ourselves for such an act. That one shall be tasked to do what must be done, while sanity and power remains. The children must be free. Only in freedom can there be growth and development. That which was begun must never be allowed to take place. The one tasked shall ensure that those with the knowledge eradicate all such from the records, before they themselves must forget. The power that allows so much must be channeled and lessened in others. The empathy cannot be removed from the children to come, but it must be channeled only into the transference of injuries, so as to prevent it from growing too great, as it has with us. Safeguards must be put in place, and some shall be designated to ensure that they are followed, so that the future is secured from such peril. We can only hope that our designated Guardian shall be able to do what must be done successfully. I pray it won't be me...
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/First_Empaths
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Part of me wished to see Armifer just respond with "yes" because boogabooga mystery ambiguity, even though he didn't. Hah.
Just as some interesting points of note, there have been rather bizarre Empathic events that resulted in Empaths just kinda... flying into the sky and going away.
Some samples below. No idea if it's still canon but I don't know why it wouldn't be.
Trylaine: One of the "First Empaths"
Captain Jourok told someone over the gweth to watch out for...something, just before he was struck down. Later we saw from the docks a large tortoise with a cloaked figure riding atop it disembark from the sea. This turned out to be Trylaine, a very old and insanely skilled empath who spoke to some distant beings that we could not hear or see, but could see us and communicate to him. Kaith Partani Edenlaen herself seemed greatly impressed by this Elder. He changed race, age, and sex several times without effort, healed all wounds instantly with a touch, and was on some sort of mission.
Seeking quiet, he advised the many adventurers not to make too much noise or movement when hearing "them" coming. We then heard the sounds of stomping and arming drawing near while at the cove near Denison's Pub. Trylaine then took Edenlaen with him after instructing everyone to hide and remain silent and met a cyclops! After instructing her to stand up to the beast without fear, though not letting it hit her, she seemed to be the first to learn from Trylaine the ability to befriend beasts! The Cyclops no longer wished to attack her and after a while several other empaths were given the same instructions from this legend Trylaine (many were slain trying, but returned alive with Trylaine). He eventually had to leave as he stated his time was up and he had to move on to other duties elsewhere, ascending into the heavens and leaving us all in awe and wonder.
(https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Trylaine)
Ambent: Trylaine's granddaughter
She introduced herself as Ambent, and said that she'd been singing to them all in hopes of drawing them to find Timothy, that the fact that they had done so proved to her that they cared for him and his welfare, and that she was safe in passing his care to them. She mentioned his extremely special nature, that he was able to heal something no one else could see. She also mentioned that she could heal his madness from him, but that she feared the flood of memories underneath would destroy him completely, and that his destiny was for larger things.
She revealed that, as a child, she had been found by Timothy and his wife Penelope...that she had been singing the song she sang to them all now, and that she had told them her grandfather had taught her to sing it. She also revealed clues to indicate that, as told by Timothy earlier, she was the last child alive in Sicle Grove, and that she had died in his arms. Though circumstances beyond them had removed her from him physically, she apparently was not finished yet with her reason for coming to him in the first place, and had been near him in some sense ever since.
She also said that he reminded her of her grandfather, Trylaine (did anyone present notice that she bore some resemblance to Trylaine herself? Like her grandfather, Ambent's hair color Shifted automatically...though it was only her hair and nothing else); and then, with great sadness, she said she needed to leave him in their hands, and bid them promise her to take care. With a tearful goodbye, she ascended to another plane of existence (or so they say), leaving Ahspia in wonder, Timothy in tears, and everyone else scramblings for the fireflies she left behind.
(https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:The_Timothy_Event_(aka:_What_the_heck_happened%3F)_-_2/5/2007_-_19:57:38)
First Empaths: Really, the first ones!
We agreed. We should have never have retreated so far from society as to allow what has happened to happen. We grew apart in our power, as our power made us grow apart. Now it is too late. We can no longer live amongst the beings of this world. We can barely tolerate contact with one another, even at such distances, yet we cannot be alone. Never alone. We, who healed so many, can never be healed. Our gifts have grown too strong to be blocked, or even dulled for more than moments. And yet, we must face up to our responsibilities. One of us shall be chosen, and we shall cast that one out, may we somehow forgive ourselves for such an act. That one shall be tasked to do what must be done, while sanity and power remains. The children must be free. Only in freedom can there be growth and development. That which was begun must never be allowed to take place. The one tasked shall ensure that those with the knowledge eradicate all such from the records, before they themselves must forget. The power that allows so much must be channeled and lessened in others. The empathy cannot be removed from the children to come, but it must be channeled only into the transference of injuries, so as to prevent it from growing too great, as it has with us. Safeguards must be put in place, and some shall be designated to ensure that they are followed, so that the future is secured from such peril. We can only hope that our designated Guardian shall be able to do what must be done successfully. I pray it won't be me...
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/First_Empaths
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>But there are no Necromancers who started out as Empaths. For some reason.
>...they would disappear and never be seen again.
I know the answer I'm likely to get here, but I feel the desire to ask anyway: Is this, literally, the lore right now? Is there any intent to, at some point, explain and explore what happens? Because Empaths being DR's big bad is just amusing to me.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
>...they would disappear and never be seen again.
I know the answer I'm likely to get here, but I feel the desire to ask anyway: Is this, literally, the lore right now? Is there any intent to, at some point, explain and explore what happens? Because Empaths being DR's big bad is just amusing to me.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
>>I know the answer I'm likely to get here, but I feel the desire to ask anyway: Is this, literally, the lore right now?
Yes. I can't control what PCs claim to do, but the intent is that Empaths that delve too deeply into necromancy disappear and are never seen again.
>>Is there any intent to, at some point, explain and explore what happens?
From the Necromancer side, this will likely be explored as we begin to introduce the advanced states of being and the ... complications involved in attaining them.
From the Empath side, I feel like it's possible to make an educated guess if you read between the lines of the Empath lore.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Yes. I can't control what PCs claim to do, but the intent is that Empaths that delve too deeply into necromancy disappear and are never seen again.
>>Is there any intent to, at some point, explain and explore what happens?
From the Necromancer side, this will likely be explored as we begin to introduce the advanced states of being and the ... complications involved in attaining them.
From the Empath side, I feel like it's possible to make an educated guess if you read between the lines of the Empath lore.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
I'm feeling particularly dense about the empathic side of things re; empaths exploring necromancy vanishing. Is it a political thing, as in the guild leaders put out a hit on you, is it a matter/antimatter empathy reaction and the person explodes into a pile of guts and viscera, or is it more that they simply become really powerful and angry Necromancers?
I also recall reading something about how Empaths who reach the pinnacle of their craft Transcend in a way that Necromancers are trying to do, but ultimately will fail at at, and I think Armifer commented something to the effect of Necromancers are sort of 'aiming for this point, but approaching it so cosmically/comically incorrectly that they can't help but catastrophically miss'. Am I remembering that wrong?
>>I'm feeling particularly dense about the empathic side of things re; empaths exploring necromancy vanishing. Is it a political thing, as in the guild leaders put out a hit on you, is it a matter/antimatter empathy reaction and the person explodes into a pile of guts and viscera, or is it more that they simply become really powerful and angry Necromancers?
I think the fact that it's ambiguous and "they vanish" is all we hear is completely intentional. Would Empaths put hits on Empaths who delve into Necromancy? Is there some extra-planar force that mutilates them?
>>I also recall reading something about how Empaths who reach the pinnacle of their craft Transcend in a way that Necromancers are trying to do, but ultimately will fail at at, and I think Armifer commented something to the effect of Necromancers are sort of 'aiming for this point, but approaching it so cosmically/comically incorrectly that they can't help but catastrophically miss'. Am I remembering that wrong?
I think that's part of the stuff I liked to on epedia.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I think the fact that it's ambiguous and "they vanish" is all we hear is completely intentional. Would Empaths put hits on Empaths who delve into Necromancy? Is there some extra-planar force that mutilates them?
>>I also recall reading something about how Empaths who reach the pinnacle of their craft Transcend in a way that Necromancers are trying to do, but ultimately will fail at at, and I think Armifer commented something to the effect of Necromancers are sort of 'aiming for this point, but approaching it so cosmically/comically incorrectly that they can't help but catastrophically miss'. Am I remembering that wrong?
I think that's part of the stuff I liked to on epedia.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Empathic Ascension and Necromantic Transcendence are deliberately pretty close conceptually... and there may be repercussions for either side because of it.
The Old Man has hinted at some of this, and some of it is genuinely meant to be obscure. Occult mysteries and whatnot.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
The Old Man has hinted at some of this, and some of it is genuinely meant to be obscure. Occult mysteries and whatnot.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
>From the Empath side, I feel like it's possible to make an educated guess if you read between the lines of the Empath lore.
While I'm proud Armifer thinks so much of us, I'm a bit sad that I ain't got no freakin clue.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
While I'm proud Armifer thinks so much of us, I'm a bit sad that I ain't got no freakin clue.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Melete should correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there's one central concept to really go into reading Empath stuff:
Empathy doesn't make people nice.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Empathy doesn't make people nice.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
>>Ok, so, I suppose the next question is why do the powers that be really dislike Empathy/Thanatology going to completion?
They hate competition?
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
They hate competition?
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>And by 'not nice' I assume you don't mean 'would help you move that couch', but rather 'swimming against the cosmic flow'?
I think he means it probably quite literally and in the same way he sometimes talks about Paladins.
Being an Empath does not mean you can't encourage your pet to eat babies, you just can't do it yourself. Being an Empath does not mean you're a good person, or even a nice one. Case in point, Jomay.
There has been a longstanding trend (that seems to be lessening) that Empaths are nice, pacifistic doctors who would never harm small woodland animals. However, this is a player construct, not a defining characteristic of Empaths.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
I think he means it probably quite literally and in the same way he sometimes talks about Paladins.
Being an Empath does not mean you can't encourage your pet to eat babies, you just can't do it yourself. Being an Empath does not mean you're a good person, or even a nice one. Case in point, Jomay.
There has been a longstanding trend (that seems to be lessening) that Empaths are nice, pacifistic doctors who would never harm small woodland animals. However, this is a player construct, not a defining characteristic of Empaths.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
"Would Empaths put hits on Empaths who delve into Necromancy?"
An empath intentionally harming another, even indirectly, shows a distinct lack of empathy in the literal sense of the word. This is why I'm generally against anything that nudges empaths into more action oriented roles (currently: manipulate and warrior.) It's very anti-thematic. There are several other reasons, but I won't derail the thread with them. I'm just saying that I *really hope* that Empaths aren't putting out hits on anyone in the lore.
An empath intentionally harming another, even indirectly, shows a distinct lack of empathy in the literal sense of the word. This is why I'm generally against anything that nudges empaths into more action oriented roles (currently: manipulate and warrior.) It's very anti-thematic. There are several other reasons, but I won't derail the thread with them. I'm just saying that I *really hope* that Empaths aren't putting out hits on anyone in the lore.
>>An empath intentionally harming another, even indirectly, shows a distinct lack of empathy in the literal sense of the word. This is why I'm generally against anything that nudges empaths into more action oriented roles (currently: manipulate and warrior.) It's very anti-thematic.
Strangely, and perhaps intentionally, there's very little empathic (true to the German Einfühlung, "feeling your way into") about some of the practitioners of Empathy. Jomay is, as was pointed out, the classic example.
Then you get into the First Empaths and things get a little too Einfühlung.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Strangely, and perhaps intentionally, there's very little empathic (true to the German Einfühlung, "feeling your way into") about some of the practitioners of Empathy. Jomay is, as was pointed out, the classic example.
Then you get into the First Empaths and things get a little too Einfühlung.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Yeah, I wouldn't want to get the Empaths angry at me. Moon mages got to take a bit of a peek behind the curtain a while back through a vision.
An elderly Halfling woman sits at a table covered by a blue tablecloth. A vase filled with bellflowers sits among the remains of a gracious breakfast. A tall Human woman with dark brown skin occupies a larger chair, hands folded in her lap and spine as straight as a fencepost.
The Halfling takes a dainty sip of tea from a delicate bone-white teacup. Gazing up at the Human, she says, "Yes, she will be dealt with, but first we need more information. That will be your task, dear." The Human woman gazes down at her hands, expression unreadable. She says in a neutral tone, "How forceful do you wish me to be in my inquiries, Khalo?" "Goodness, child, there's no need yet to think of such extremes. If we silence her too vigorously, people will believe we fear what she might say. Bring your report to me first." The Human woman rises, smoothing the dove-grey fabric of her silk blouse. "As you say, Khalo."
- Miskton
An elderly Halfling woman sits at a table covered by a blue tablecloth. A vase filled with bellflowers sits among the remains of a gracious breakfast. A tall Human woman with dark brown skin occupies a larger chair, hands folded in her lap and spine as straight as a fencepost.
The Halfling takes a dainty sip of tea from a delicate bone-white teacup. Gazing up at the Human, she says, "Yes, she will be dealt with, but first we need more information. That will be your task, dear." The Human woman gazes down at her hands, expression unreadable. She says in a neutral tone, "How forceful do you wish me to be in my inquiries, Khalo?" "Goodness, child, there's no need yet to think of such extremes. If we silence her too vigorously, people will believe we fear what she might say. Bring your report to me first." The Human woman rises, smoothing the dove-grey fabric of her silk blouse. "As you say, Khalo."
- Miskton
