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Took my patient's disease as I healed him ... his wounds were badly infected. After the wounds were gone, I got the basic messaging that he had no disease (even though there was never the messaging about the resistance giving way and transferring completely to me).
Yet he can see the following:
You have a dormant infection that could make wounds worse.
I touched him again and attempted to take disease and it said my patient has no disease.
Passionata
<< You have a dormant infection that could make wounds worse. I touched him again and attempted to take disease and it said my patient has no disease. >> - Passionata
Some people mentioned this, have never experienced it.
Only recommendation, less ya already tried it, is takin tha precise disease. Flesh rot, gangrene, infection (such as this instance), consumption, an sometimes yah just plain ole disease is most accurates.
Transfers much faster as well.
--Sondrine
Some people mentioned this, have never experienced it.
Only recommendation, less ya already tried it, is takin tha precise disease. Flesh rot, gangrene, infection (such as this instance), consumption, an sometimes yah just plain ole disease is most accurates.
Transfers much faster as well.
--Sondrine
Okie I just reread my last post and realized it was a little overzealous.. :)
Anyway, this infection bit is kind of extreme. The thing killed me in like 10 minutes. It was like watching my body melt. Chest went from light internal bleeding to massive as if my body was turning to liquid.
Why does this mechanic exist? It seems to me that if you don't want a person learning First Aid forever from the same wound, that it would make more sense for the wound to heal than to get angry and eat you.
Lainn
Anyway, this infection bit is kind of extreme. The thing killed me in like 10 minutes. It was like watching my body melt. Chest went from light internal bleeding to massive as if my body was turning to liquid.
Why does this mechanic exist? It seems to me that if you don't want a person learning First Aid forever from the same wound, that it would make more sense for the wound to heal than to get angry and eat you.
Lainn
Okay maybe i've been lucky or maybe I just have all the right combination of factors... but I have yet to have wounds get infected just from having a bleeder. I've kept a few here and there just to see (after all, being able to cast CD has its advantages) but so far... no infection. I wonder what all plays a part? Stamina, strength, etc....
Sunfrost
Sunfrost
>>Basically I think the point now is, get wounds in combat, tend them a few times, get them healed, lather, rinse and repeat.<<
I realize that's the intent, but I don't agree that it works. Well, maybe for Empaths it works. It doesn't for everyone else. You find yourself getting hit on purpose to get bleeders. That's more OOC than just keeping them long term.
At 150 ranks with a Tertiary skill, I'd need 20 bleeders per rank, at least, if I healed them immediately. That, frankly, is unreasonable.
I also question why it's discouraged to keep a bleeder but encouraged to jump into a pit full of leeches, as if one is more IC than the other.
It might also help if the so-called "infection" weren't something more akin to supernatural ebola. For the record, limb infections in the real world do not cause your stomach to cave in in 10 minutes. Even if you say that Elanthian time is four times faster than real life time (which it is sometimes and isn't others) 40 minutes is not long enough for a disease to completely devour a person's insides. In fact many acids cannot even do that.
Did I also mention you have zero chance of surviving this "infection" unless it's cured? Unlike other diseases in this game, the infection gets worse, not better. The crux here is that if you are on a boat and get this thing you might as well lay down and close your eyes, because there is a 100% chance of death without an Empath.
It's like if there was a random chance any time you were teaching of becoming a drone and having your spirit continually sucked out of your body until you die or find a 20th circle Cleric to Uncurse you. But at the same time you need to train teaching and the only reasonable way to do it is to actually teach. But wait, there's a hunting ground on Ratha where you can train your teaching and the spirit drain is only mild. :P
Lainn
I realize that's the intent, but I don't agree that it works. Well, maybe for Empaths it works. It doesn't for everyone else. You find yourself getting hit on purpose to get bleeders. That's more OOC than just keeping them long term.
At 150 ranks with a Tertiary skill, I'd need 20 bleeders per rank, at least, if I healed them immediately. That, frankly, is unreasonable.
I also question why it's discouraged to keep a bleeder but encouraged to jump into a pit full of leeches, as if one is more IC than the other.
It might also help if the so-called "infection" weren't something more akin to supernatural ebola. For the record, limb infections in the real world do not cause your stomach to cave in in 10 minutes. Even if you say that Elanthian time is four times faster than real life time (which it is sometimes and isn't others) 40 minutes is not long enough for a disease to completely devour a person's insides. In fact many acids cannot even do that.
Did I also mention you have zero chance of surviving this "infection" unless it's cured? Unlike other diseases in this game, the infection gets worse, not better. The crux here is that if you are on a boat and get this thing you might as well lay down and close your eyes, because there is a 100% chance of death without an Empath.
It's like if there was a random chance any time you were teaching of becoming a drone and having your spirit continually sucked out of your body until you die or find a 20th circle Cleric to Uncurse you. But at the same time you need to train teaching and the only reasonable way to do it is to actually teach. But wait, there's a hunting ground on Ratha where you can train your teaching and the spirit drain is only mild. :P
Lainn
Yeah, well, my novice pallie is done circling lots sooner than he'd planned because of the changes. Its just not worth it. Not at 8-10 hours at bewildering or above to rank FA, depending on wall or non-wall rank. Now, its pointless.
It would take at least ten times that long with how rarely he can manage to find a bleeder on someone, and that would only bump him up to maybe thinking, since they'll most likely depart before it unwraps.
<shrug> Good thing only a tiny fraction of charas in the game are novices. (under 30th circle) Maybe he'll eventually rank FA again, but even his last depart left him over an hour down. (3%)
The only reason my empath can learn FA is because of leeches and blood worms. He never tends bleeders now, because it takes longer to tend than it does to snapcast bs or ewh, or transfer the wound to himself and heal it, so FA is an even more useless skill.
It'll be real interesting to see what happens when everyone under 50th or 80th is considered novice and fair game for crippling changes to learning fundamental skills, like FA and teaching.
I like a challenge, but there is a point of ridiculousness. Good thing neither my pallie or my empath really have any great desire to circle anymore, and both of them are played for RP purposes more than the challenge of the game itself. (even if I don't RP either IC)
AM Olson ~~ and the novice horde
It would take at least ten times that long with how rarely he can manage to find a bleeder on someone, and that would only bump him up to maybe thinking, since they'll most likely depart before it unwraps.
<shrug> Good thing only a tiny fraction of charas in the game are novices. (under 30th circle) Maybe he'll eventually rank FA again, but even his last depart left him over an hour down. (3%)
The only reason my empath can learn FA is because of leeches and blood worms. He never tends bleeders now, because it takes longer to tend than it does to snapcast bs or ewh, or transfer the wound to himself and heal it, so FA is an even more useless skill.
It'll be real interesting to see what happens when everyone under 50th or 80th is considered novice and fair game for crippling changes to learning fundamental skills, like FA and teaching.
I like a challenge, but there is a point of ridiculousness. Good thing neither my pallie or my empath really have any great desire to circle anymore, and both of them are played for RP purposes more than the challenge of the game itself. (even if I don't RP either IC)
AM Olson ~~ and the novice horde
If you want this changed, you need to post hard numbers. I don't think I am satisfied with the way experience is being granted right now either and am hopeful new developments will address the issues.
On of the major issues for me is that it is far too hard to end up with bleeders in combat. The majority of deaths continue to be from a flurry of hits or a lucky strike rather than from accumulated injuries.
I also think too much of the experience is "saved" for the moment the wound unwraps naturally. This means the more skilled you are the longer you have to sit around with a wrapped wound.
However, the system is still incomplete. I believe using herbs is intended to teach first aid, and I strongly suspect using actual bandages and sutures will teach better at the "wrap" stage. So, at least some of this "problem" may go away as the system is fleshed out.
Dellica
On of the major issues for me is that it is far too hard to end up with bleeders in combat. The majority of deaths continue to be from a flurry of hits or a lucky strike rather than from accumulated injuries.
I also think too much of the experience is "saved" for the moment the wound unwraps naturally. This means the more skilled you are the longer you have to sit around with a wrapped wound.
However, the system is still incomplete. I believe using herbs is intended to teach first aid, and I strongly suspect using actual bandages and sutures will teach better at the "wrap" stage. So, at least some of this "problem" may go away as the system is fleshed out.
Dellica
>>>I also think too much of the experience is "saved" for the moment the wound unwraps naturally. This means the more skilled you are the longer you have to sit around with a wrapped wound.
Question.....I tend my wound say three times....then heal it..instead of waiting for the bandage too come off by itsself I unwrap it..Am I still getting the experience, or am I botching it up but unwrapping it myself?
Rapidonia
Question.....I tend my wound say three times....then heal it..instead of waiting for the bandage too come off by itsself I unwrap it..Am I still getting the experience, or am I botching it up but unwrapping it myself?
Rapidonia
>>>Question.....I tend my wound say three times....then heal it..instead of waiting for the bandage too come off by itsself I unwrap it..Am I still getting the experience, or am I botching it up but unwrapping it myself?
Don't know if this question was answered already but...what about if I tend, then heal it, and it unwraps?
-Quanette
Don't know if this question was answered already but...what about if I tend, then heal it, and it unwraps?
-Quanette
>Don't know if this question was answered already but...what about if I tend, then heal it, and it unwraps?
From what GM Towint has said regarding these issues, it seems as long as YOU don't unwrap the wound YOU tended, you'll gain the full measure of experience, and if someone else unwraps or heals it, it doesn't affect you (unless you immediately try to tend it again, I think).
This also means if you heal your own wound before it unwraps, the experience is not affected. Also, if you let someone else tend you, then you heal it, they will still get their experience.
--Fetherlan
From what GM Towint has said regarding these issues, it seems as long as YOU don't unwrap the wound YOU tended, you'll gain the full measure of experience, and if someone else unwraps or heals it, it doesn't affect you (unless you immediately try to tend it again, I think).
This also means if you heal your own wound before it unwraps, the experience is not affected. Also, if you let someone else tend you, then you heal it, they will still get their experience.
--Fetherlan
I've decided to post this here because.. well honestly because I never got any kind of response in the FA folder.
So far..every time i've gotten a bleeder/wound infected, it not only affected my wound, it caused my eyes to get terribly internally wounded imediately also. But this doesn't seem to make sense. No sooner had I noticed my wound infected that my eyes started to swell and get messed up. Could someone look into the length of time there is between the initial infection of a wound and the spreading of it to the eyes?
Also Could we get a mention of the status of the Substances re-write? As much as i like empaths, I'd still really like to be able to just rely on herbs and such when the re-write is done.
So far..every time i've gotten a bleeder/wound infected, it not only affected my wound, it caused my eyes to get terribly internally wounded imediately also. But this doesn't seem to make sense. No sooner had I noticed my wound infected that my eyes started to swell and get messed up. Could someone look into the length of time there is between the initial infection of a wound and the spreading of it to the eyes?
Also Could we get a mention of the status of the Substances re-write? As much as i like empaths, I'd still really like to be able to just rely on herbs and such when the re-write is done.
>Also Could we get a mention of the status of the Substances re-write?
I can help with this one. GM-Fial posted an uber-cryptic note over on the alchemy boards, oh...3 weeks back? It may not be the exact wording, but the just of it was "Soon is not the right word to describe it".
(shakes her fist)
Anyhow, there's been, of course, lots of speculation what the wee-GM meant, but my kronar are on the interpretation that it's done or really really close, and they're holding out to HSN to start the season off with a bang.
Kythryn
I can help with this one. GM-Fial posted an uber-cryptic note over on the alchemy boards, oh...3 weeks back? It may not be the exact wording, but the just of it was "Soon is not the right word to describe it".
(shakes her fist)
Anyhow, there's been, of course, lots of speculation what the wee-GM meant, but my kronar are on the interpretation that it's done or really really close, and they're holding out to HSN to start the season off with a bang.
Kythryn
<<Anyhow, there's been, of course, lots of speculation what the wee-GM meant, but my kronar are on the interpretation that it's done or really really close, and they're holding out to HSN to start the season off with a bang.>>
Really? Wow, I must be more cynical than I realized ... I took that to mean "I've been too busy in RL and it's not even close so stop pestering me about it." Hmm.
Passionata
Really? Wow, I must be more cynical than I realized ... I took that to mean "I've been too busy in RL and it's not even close so stop pestering me about it." Hmm.
Passionata
>It may not be the exact wording, but the just of it was "Soon is not the right word to describe it".
The only definite conclusion that can be drawn from that statement is that it's probobly not "soon". This leaves the possibilities of being before "soon", or after "soon". I would assume that something three weeks in the future is "soon" so I have to conclude that he meant by that that it was going to be after "soon". By the GM definition of "soon", that quotation leads me to believe that alchemy 2 may not happen in this half of the decade.
-Kitrinx
The only definite conclusion that can be drawn from that statement is that it's probobly not "soon". This leaves the possibilities of being before "soon", or after "soon". I would assume that something three weeks in the future is "soon" so I have to conclude that he meant by that that it was going to be after "soon". By the GM definition of "soon", that quotation leads me to believe that alchemy 2 may not happen in this half of the decade.
-Kitrinx
While hunting I developed a slight bleeder. Now while I know that bleeders will now develop into disease if not taken care of i think to my self...self...its only a slight bleeder there isn't anyway that a paper cut is going to cause an infection in the next hour or so. But lo' and behold about 30 minutes and 4 tends into the hunt...infection...on M'riss...with hardly an empath that lives on the island, late at night and a stupid Auto-Puff that won't take the infection to begin with. I understand that we aren't supposed to have pet bleeders anymore and i'm all for that. However a slight bleeder, on a 53rd circle barb with 30+ stamina shouldn't turn to gangrene in less than 30 minutes. Those that are on the up and up please tell me that this is something that is going to be looked at, at least some time in the near future.
~Ternith Sjomah
And necromancers are going to be like really tough to play!!! Okay not really but it sounded good.
~Ternith Sjomah
And necromancers are going to be like really tough to play!!! Okay not really but it sounded good.
You feel a wave of nausea rising from your gut as you notice a sickly green fluid oozing from your wounded abdomen.
>
You feel yourself falling...
You stop listening to your teacher.
You feel like you're dying!
_
I died in one pulse from a previously fully-tended bleeder, with no other wounds and full vitality. To be clear: immediately upon infection, the wound opened, and I died. I'll admit that my stamina is rather low (18), but this seems a bit excessive. I assisted over the issue and was assured that the system is working properly. As soon as I fully recovered from the death, I got another bleeder and died instantly AGAIN, within about 30 minutes. This was also with no prior wounds and full vitality/spirit. Perhaps the system IS working properly here, but, while I fully accept that pet bleeders should have a risk, may I humbly suggest that this be reexamined?
>
You feel yourself falling...
You stop listening to your teacher.
You feel like you're dying!
_
I died in one pulse from a previously fully-tended bleeder, with no other wounds and full vitality. To be clear: immediately upon infection, the wound opened, and I died. I'll admit that my stamina is rather low (18), but this seems a bit excessive. I assisted over the issue and was assured that the system is working properly. As soon as I fully recovered from the death, I got another bleeder and died instantly AGAIN, within about 30 minutes. This was also with no prior wounds and full vitality/spirit. Perhaps the system IS working properly here, but, while I fully accept that pet bleeders should have a risk, may I humbly suggest that this be reexamined?
While I am not questioning you and what happened to you, I have never seen an infection just bloom into full blown oozing sores immediately. I have always noticed the 'Your wounds are infected' message at the end of my wound list (when I type in 'heal') for a time prior to the advancement of the infection. Anal-retentive person that I am, I do check my wounds every minute or so. Is there any chance you had been infected for several minutes prior to seeing the oozing sores?
Once you start getting oozing and rotten flesh it is pretty much close to being over for you. At that point the infection has advanced so far you would need several experienced empaths to stay ahead of the infection and the new wounds that keep popping up. I have seen a person who has been fully healed of fresh wounds get light bleeders, internal and external, on every part of his body in one pulse and with 18 stamina thats all she wrote...
That sucks about the dying though.
Mendorin Sythariensalos
Once you start getting oozing and rotten flesh it is pretty much close to being over for you. At that point the infection has advanced so far you would need several experienced empaths to stay ahead of the infection and the new wounds that keep popping up. I have seen a person who has been fully healed of fresh wounds get light bleeders, internal and external, on every part of his body in one pulse and with 18 stamina thats all she wrote...
That sucks about the dying though.
Mendorin Sythariensalos
I have also never noticed any messaging when my wounds get infected. each time a wound opens and I tend it, I check my health. Even with my empath it still surprises me.
You might try doing appendage wounds and such if you want. That is what I suggest for non-empaths because then at least you just get a useless arm and it won't insta-kill you when it falls off (will just have to run really fast..heh) and it's easier for empaths to fully transfer a broken arm or hand than it is for them to take an almost useless abdomen. Yeah, those wounds teach FA better since they are harder to tend, etc, and all of the other things like increased tending time with arm/hand wounds, etc...just an opinion.
Sorry to hear about your troubles! It's not a fun thing having this kind of stuff cost you death.
~Brady, player of I'm a Lover Not a Figher Elavin Rismel.
It sounds great, but I think it could use a little more cow bell.
You might try doing appendage wounds and such if you want. That is what I suggest for non-empaths because then at least you just get a useless arm and it won't insta-kill you when it falls off (will just have to run really fast..heh) and it's easier for empaths to fully transfer a broken arm or hand than it is for them to take an almost useless abdomen. Yeah, those wounds teach FA better since they are harder to tend, etc, and all of the other things like increased tending time with arm/hand wounds, etc...just an opinion.
Sorry to hear about your troubles! It's not a fun thing having this kind of stuff cost you death.
~Brady, player of I'm a Lover Not a Figher Elavin Rismel.
It sounds great, but I think it could use a little more cow bell.
I appreciately everyone's insightful commentary. There were a few things that I should clarify about both deaths. Firstly, the wound did not open into a severe bleeder. It simply advanced a stage (ex. went from deep cuts to slashes), so it wasn't a case of my abdomen suddenly exploding. So this appears to be an instant vitality death. I submit that it is possible that I missed out on being infected, but in my experience, the bleeder opens fairly quickly after infection sets in, as it so happened in the same moment I died. Again I should indicate that the second death happened within thirty minutes (though I'd pin it to about 15-20), after getting a bleeder.
I'm not suggesting that this is a bug, necessarily, but I think the initial vitality reduction should be somewhat less than 100%.
I'm not suggesting that this is a bug, necessarily, but I think the initial vitality reduction should be somewhat less than 100%.
My advice is the same: stamina is your best friend. Training it up even 2 to 20 would make a huge difference.
Your FA skill will also determine how well your wounds stay tended and avoidance of disease.
Sounds like you died from bloodloss when the wound opened from the infection.... must've been gushing or somewhere around that, and 18 stamina doesn't handle bleeders that bleed that fast.
Out of curiousity, though, what is your FA? : )
~Amo
"You hurry a miracle man, you get rotten miracles" ~ Miracle Max
This is no ordinary miracle! http://home.sprintmail.com/~hopebuilt
Empaths, join us: http://www.geocities.com/saerhyn/ESC/Coalition.html
Your FA skill will also determine how well your wounds stay tended and avoidance of disease.
Sounds like you died from bloodloss when the wound opened from the infection.... must've been gushing or somewhere around that, and 18 stamina doesn't handle bleeders that bleed that fast.
Out of curiousity, though, what is your FA? : )
~Amo
"You hurry a miracle man, you get rotten miracles" ~ Miracle Max
This is no ordinary miracle! http://home.sprintmail.com/~hopebuilt
Empaths, join us: http://www.geocities.com/saerhyn/ESC/Coalition.html
The bleeder didn't open to fatal dimensions by any measure, moving up only one category, to deep slashes. On the second question: First Aid: 152. I should also note again that in both cases, the death occured the instant I saw green fluid in the wound. This is probably indicative of a vitality death from infection itself, rather than by blood loss.
Alright. I have over 30 stamina and strength on my character. The last time I tried to work on FA, I got a light hand bleeder in combat and thought what the heck, I'll tend it.
A few hours later, it popped into a heavy bleeder. I do a health check every time I tend a bleeder, and saw the infection. I ran to an empath, and died on the way from massive vit loss.
Total time from 'I'm infected' to 'I'm dead!' about 2 minutes.
Whether or not it has happened to you or not, it does happen. I've never experienced alot of things either but, they still happen to other people.
A dark brown Zoluren marnet scampers after a small beetle then chitters with disappointment as the insect unfurls its wings and flies away.
A few hours later, it popped into a heavy bleeder. I do a health check every time I tend a bleeder, and saw the infection. I ran to an empath, and died on the way from massive vit loss.
Total time from 'I'm infected' to 'I'm dead!' about 2 minutes.
Whether or not it has happened to you or not, it does happen. I've never experienced alot of things either but, they still happen to other people.
A dark brown Zoluren marnet scampers after a small beetle then chitters with disappointment as the insect unfurls its wings and flies away.
<<to deep slashes>>
Cuts, slashes, gaps, holes, gnashes, etc... can all become "into death's arms" bleeders. Someone with only 18 in stamina, "gushing" could be similar to "into death's arms". Someone with 50 stamina "into death's arms" is more like a "gushing".
Infection can cause a "light" bleeder to move up to "gushing" within a blink.
It also will take a certain amount of vitality out of you... someone with more stamina will take such a light vitality hit, that if they don't check their health immediately, they'll recover before they notice.
Someone with low stamina, the combination of the infections small vitality hit (which is actually a hit on when the wound is inflected via worsening) and the sudden rush of bloodflow from the upgrading of the bleeder... death ensues.
That is what I suspect happened with you.
Raise your stamina, you won't regret it. If you don't notice a difference raising it to just 20 (although I recommend at least 25), then please post here with more details ; )
~Amo
Freedom Is Not Free -- Please Pray for the Troops
Get shifted at Amori's Place--> http://home.sprintmail.com/~hopebuilt
and also, the Empathic Alliance--> http://www.geocities.com/saerhyn/ESC/Coalition.html
Cuts, slashes, gaps, holes, gnashes, etc... can all become "into death's arms" bleeders. Someone with only 18 in stamina, "gushing" could be similar to "into death's arms". Someone with 50 stamina "into death's arms" is more like a "gushing".
Infection can cause a "light" bleeder to move up to "gushing" within a blink.
It also will take a certain amount of vitality out of you... someone with more stamina will take such a light vitality hit, that if they don't check their health immediately, they'll recover before they notice.
Someone with low stamina, the combination of the infections small vitality hit (which is actually a hit on when the wound is inflected via worsening) and the sudden rush of bloodflow from the upgrading of the bleeder... death ensues.
That is what I suspect happened with you.
Raise your stamina, you won't regret it. If you don't notice a difference raising it to just 20 (although I recommend at least 25), then please post here with more details ; )
~Amo
Freedom Is Not Free -- Please Pray for the Troops
Get shifted at Amori's Place--> http://home.sprintmail.com/~hopebuilt
and also, the Empathic Alliance--> http://www.geocities.com/saerhyn/ESC/Coalition.html
<<A few hours later, it popped into a heavy bleeder. I do a health check every time I tend a bleeder, and saw the infection. I ran to an empath, and died on the way from massive vit loss.
Umm, I hate to be the one to point this out, but a bleeder can become infected between tends. I have frequently noticed that infection starts while tended, not while bleeding. Although I'm sure it can heppen then too.
What likely occured, based on what you are saying, is that shortly after you tended your bleeder, your wounds became infected. Left untreated, you didn't notice the disease was progressing. Eventually your bleeder let loose, you tended again, did a health check and wow, your infected... At this point, you have left your infection run wild. Its one of the dangers of training FA. You have to keep watch your health, more then just when you are tending. And even when really infected, a good cast of CD does wonders.
Mole
WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN!
After the stampede the artist Three Solid Frogs got to his feet, retrieved his brush from his nostril, pulled his easel out of a tree, and tried to think placid thoughts.
Umm, I hate to be the one to point this out, but a bleeder can become infected between tends. I have frequently noticed that infection starts while tended, not while bleeding. Although I'm sure it can heppen then too.
What likely occured, based on what you are saying, is that shortly after you tended your bleeder, your wounds became infected. Left untreated, you didn't notice the disease was progressing. Eventually your bleeder let loose, you tended again, did a health check and wow, your infected... At this point, you have left your infection run wild. Its one of the dangers of training FA. You have to keep watch your health, more then just when you are tending. And even when really infected, a good cast of CD does wonders.
Mole
WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN!
After the stampede the artist Three Solid Frogs got to his feet, retrieved his brush from his nostril, pulled his easel out of a tree, and tried to think placid thoughts.
