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at what point do you get good at shifting?
So, I happened to hear from a friend that shifting a character's age can cost 30 plat or more PER DAY. I'm just curious, why the insane price? That's 3000 per Elanthian year, and a year is honestly not gonna make much of a difference. You're talkin' 30000 plat for anything significant.
I'm guessing there's a ridiculous timer on it or something. So, what's up with it?
J>* Moving in with powerful grace, a bristle-backed peccary charges at you.
The head lands a heavy strike that pokes the head into your rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
[You're beat up, nimbly balanced and in very strong position.]
I'm guessing there's a ridiculous timer on it or something. So, what's up with it?
J>* Moving in with powerful grace, a bristle-backed peccary charges at you.
The head lands a heavy strike that pokes the head into your rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
[You're beat up, nimbly balanced and in very strong position.]
They are very difficult and have a massive (12+ hours) downtime.
It's not like age shifts are anything but purely cosmetic, so there's not much reason to act outraged about it.
Rev. Reene
SEND[Averiss] what were you recently doing with the mirror and the horse?
Idon: Is there something I should know about?
Me: I'm not even talking to you.
It's not like age shifts are anything but purely cosmetic, so there's not much reason to act outraged about it.
Rev. Reene
SEND[Averiss] what were you recently doing with the mirror and the horse?
Idon: Is there something I should know about?
Me: I'm not even talking to you.
I wasn't acting outraged, it just seemed a little strange to see something purely cosmetic priced more than the last ship I saw for sale. Unless you're going in day increments, which is just silly, heheh.
J>* Moving in with powerful grace, a bristle-backed peccary charges at you.
The head lands a heavy strike that pokes the head into your rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
[You're beat up, nimbly balanced and in very strong position.]
J>* Moving in with powerful grace, a bristle-backed peccary charges at you.
The head lands a heavy strike that pokes the head into your rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
[You're beat up, nimbly balanced and in very strong position.]
>>They are very difficult and have a massive (12+ hours) downtime.<<
Completely NOT true. Yes, shifts have a downtime, but that downtime goes shorter as your skills and/or circle, and/or stats improve.
At 102nd circle, with the majority of tdp's poured into stamina, discipline, and charisma, downtime was approximately 20 minutes to perform all attempted shifts. I've never attempted to shift someone's age, so maybe that's different, but I have a very difficult time believing an age shift would cause a 12 hour downtime when all others are only 20 minutes.
Life is too short to drink cheap beer.
Completely NOT true. Yes, shifts have a downtime, but that downtime goes shorter as your skills and/or circle, and/or stats improve.
At 102nd circle, with the majority of tdp's poured into stamina, discipline, and charisma, downtime was approximately 20 minutes to perform all attempted shifts. I've never attempted to shift someone's age, so maybe that's different, but I have a very difficult time believing an age shift would cause a 12 hour downtime when all others are only 20 minutes.
Life is too short to drink cheap beer.
>So, I happened to hear from a friend that shifting a character's age can cost 30 plat or more PER DAY. I'm just curious, why the insane price? That's 3000 per Elanthian year, and a year is honestly not gonna make much of a difference. You're talkin' 30000 plat for anything significant.
>I'm guessing there's a ridiculous timer on it or something. So, what's up with it?
Reene has already covered this one well, but I want to shed a few more beams of light on it. You're looking at that price from the perspective of the product and not crediting the skill and time that is required to produce it. The price is high because of the opportunity cost it incurs on the Empath--12 hours of downtime means you can't use that time to gain income from other shifts. Also, age shifts are the top Shifting feat, attainable only after achieving very high levels in the Empath guild, and the price needs to reflect that. Lastly, you are assuming that the Year shift price is a prorated multiple of the Day shift price. Shifting a full year at a time is much more difficult than doing a single day, but I'd guess that the price, although very, very high, isn't going to be 3000 plat. Maybe Sophie or someone can chime in on what the downtime is like.
~ Player of Farman et al.
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Main_Page
>I'm guessing there's a ridiculous timer on it or something. So, what's up with it?
Reene has already covered this one well, but I want to shed a few more beams of light on it. You're looking at that price from the perspective of the product and not crediting the skill and time that is required to produce it. The price is high because of the opportunity cost it incurs on the Empath--12 hours of downtime means you can't use that time to gain income from other shifts. Also, age shifts are the top Shifting feat, attainable only after achieving very high levels in the Empath guild, and the price needs to reflect that. Lastly, you are assuming that the Year shift price is a prorated multiple of the Day shift price. Shifting a full year at a time is much more difficult than doing a single day, but I'd guess that the price, although very, very high, isn't going to be 3000 plat. Maybe Sophie or someone can chime in on what the downtime is like.
~ Player of Farman et al.
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Main_Page
Perhaps, and then again, perhaps not. I don't perform shifts of any kind for any reason any more though I have 2 empaths capable of doing so. If other 100+ empaths who have actually shifted someone's age experienced a 12+ hour downtime from doing so, then and only then would I believe it.
Life is too short to drink cheap beer.
Life is too short to drink cheap beer.
>> If other 100+ empaths who have actually shifted someone's age experienced a 12+ hour downtime from doing so, then and only then would I believe it.
They have, and they do.
Including ones capable of shifting years.
Rev. Reene
SEND[Averiss] what were you recently doing with the mirror and the horse?
Idon: Is there something I should know about?
Me: I'm not even talking to you.
They have, and they do.
Including ones capable of shifting years.
Rev. Reene
SEND[Averiss] what were you recently doing with the mirror and the horse?
Idon: Is there something I should know about?
Me: I'm not even talking to you.
<<It's not like age shifts are anything but purely cosmetic, so there's not much reason to act outraged about it.>>
I'm not sure what you mean by "purely cosmetic," as age shifts do in fact change the character's actual birthday. And yes, I have had one performed on one of my characters.
If, on the other hand, you mean to refer to the fact that age itself is largely cosmetic, I suppose that is the case. I would, however, like a better means of altering it nevertheless.
Personally, I've always felt that age shifting increments should be more along the line of month, year, and finally decade, so as to make it possible to actually change someone's age "category" in their appearance via shift.
~Laril
I'm not sure what you mean by "purely cosmetic," as age shifts do in fact change the character's actual birthday. And yes, I have had one performed on one of my characters.
If, on the other hand, you mean to refer to the fact that age itself is largely cosmetic, I suppose that is the case. I would, however, like a better means of altering it nevertheless.
Personally, I've always felt that age shifting increments should be more along the line of month, year, and finally decade, so as to make it possible to actually change someone's age "category" in their appearance via shift.
~Laril
My impression is that when shift was released, there was some strong feeling that preserving the age of old characters was valuable as it has OOC implications about the character's player. People wanted to see very old characters retain their age as something unique to show they have been playing for a long time, so age shifts are much harder than others. I'm sure there is an IC explanation and probably other factors, but this was at least part of things back then.
-Gheist
-Gheist
>> I'm not sure what you mean by "purely cosmetic," as age shifts do in fact change the character's actual birthday. And yes, I have had one performed on one of my characters.
Name something your character's birthday affects that isn't purely fluff/roleplay.
>> Personally, I've always felt that age shifting increments should be more along the line of month, year, and finally decade, so as to make it possible to actually change someone's age "category" in their appearance via shift.
I think it should be done by steps, personally. Each step shifts you into a differently-appearing age category.
Right now it's convoluted and annoying.
Rev. Reene
SEND[Averiss] what were you recently doing with the mirror and the horse?
Idon: Is there something I should know about?
Me: I'm not even talking to you.
Name something your character's birthday affects that isn't purely fluff/roleplay.
>> Personally, I've always felt that age shifting increments should be more along the line of month, year, and finally decade, so as to make it possible to actually change someone's age "category" in their appearance via shift.
I think it should be done by steps, personally. Each step shifts you into a differently-appearing age category.
Right now it's convoluted and annoying.
Rev. Reene
SEND[Averiss] what were you recently doing with the mirror and the horse?
Idon: Is there something I should know about?
Me: I'm not even talking to you.
>> I'm not sure what you mean by "purely cosmetic," as age shifts do in fact change the character's actual birthday. And yes, I have had one performed on one of my characters.
Name something your character's birthday affects that isn't purely fluff/roleplay.
"If, on the other hand, you mean to refer to the fact that age itself is largely cosmetic, I suppose that is the case. I would, however, like a better means of altering it nevertheless."
...?
Name something your character's birthday affects that isn't purely fluff/roleplay.
"If, on the other hand, you mean to refer to the fact that age itself is largely cosmetic, I suppose that is the case. I would, however, like a better means of altering it nevertheless."
...?
I was asking what you did not understand in my original post.
Age shifting is not "purely cosmetic" because it actually changes a character statistic: age. It, in fact, is not "cosmetic" at all in that it does not change a character's appearance unless you're lucky (on the cusp of a different age category), or you do it many, many times.
Age ITSELF, on the other hand, could be said to be "cosmetic," in that it affects nothing other than your character's appearance, and even then, only very, very occasionally. Age being completely cosmetic is another issue, and one that has already been addressed blah blah we're never going to get old and die and so on.
ANYWAY we agree on the original point, which is, age shifting as it stands is completely useless, takes too much downtime, and should be changed to actually change something in the character's appearance rather than change something only the player really gets to see.
~Laril
Age shifting is not "purely cosmetic" because it actually changes a character statistic: age. It, in fact, is not "cosmetic" at all in that it does not change a character's appearance unless you're lucky (on the cusp of a different age category), or you do it many, many times.
Age ITSELF, on the other hand, could be said to be "cosmetic," in that it affects nothing other than your character's appearance, and even then, only very, very occasionally. Age being completely cosmetic is another issue, and one that has already been addressed blah blah we're never going to get old and die and so on.
ANYWAY we agree on the original point, which is, age shifting as it stands is completely useless, takes too much downtime, and should be changed to actually change something in the character's appearance rather than change something only the player really gets to see.
~Laril
The age shifts go up from day, month, to a year. I don't think it's worthwhile for you to get a day shift unless you have some specific need/want for that day.
I've been doing year shifts and the recovery is about 700-750 roisaen. This is with an empathy and appraisal CJ. Like all shifts, if you don't want to pay don't get it. It's purely cosmetic and doesn't change anything.
And like Farman said, it's basically how much time an empath put is what you're paying. I actually only charge 30 plat per year but if you do 10 or more I give a discount.
I've been doing year shifts and the recovery is about 700-750 roisaen. This is with an empathy and appraisal CJ. Like all shifts, if you don't want to pay don't get it. It's purely cosmetic and doesn't change anything.
And like Farman said, it's basically how much time an empath put is what you're paying. I actually only charge 30 plat per year but if you do 10 or more I give a discount.
<<I can afford to hit mature. Whee!>>
Laril already hit mature.
<dramatic sigh>
I also kind of wish, if age is only going to be cosmetic? We could have at least a set !age flag or something. Laril can deal with being "mature for an Elf," but my poor Humans are all WAY too old now. :(
Anyway. Shift age = shift full age "category" plz. <3 Or if it must be done numbers, shift "decade" because at least for humans that's how the categories seem roughly arranged.
~Laril
Laril already hit mature.
<dramatic sigh>
I also kind of wish, if age is only going to be cosmetic? We could have at least a set !age flag or something. Laril can deal with being "mature for an Elf," but my poor Humans are all WAY too old now. :(
Anyway. Shift age = shift full age "category" plz. <3 Or if it must be done numbers, shift "decade" because at least for humans that's how the categories seem roughly arranged.
~Laril
i'm not really sure, my 80plus empath in TF was close to getting age shifts when it was nerfed to down the number of shifts you could actually do. Shift evaluate seemed to indicate a very steep downtime.
<<Because it's a gigantic can of worms. Eldritch, necrotic, squamous worms, writhing in a vile stew of coagulating ichor, crushed from the living gullets of a thousand infant puppies, ululating in wordless terror. - Lorz>>
<<Because it's a gigantic can of worms. Eldritch, necrotic, squamous worms, writhing in a vile stew of coagulating ichor, crushed from the living gullets of a thousand infant puppies, ululating in wordless terror. - Lorz>>
<<And like Farman said, it's basically how much time an empath put is what you're paying. I actually only charge 30 plat per year but if you do 10 or more I give a discount.>>
i figure though, from reading a log of a thief guildleader meeting, that was how the thief guildleader from shard appeared younger than Schvartz, even though she's been around longer. She could AFFORD to pay that kinda coin to get shifted!!!
whereas schvartz isn't nearly so vain about her age. She's proud of bein' a crotchity old s'kra.... heh.
<<Because it's a gigantic can of worms. Eldritch, necrotic, squamous worms, writhing in a vile stew of coagulating ichor, crushed from the living gullets of a thousand infant puppies, ululating in wordless terror. - Lorz>>
i figure though, from reading a log of a thief guildleader meeting, that was how the thief guildleader from shard appeared younger than Schvartz, even though she's been around longer. She could AFFORD to pay that kinda coin to get shifted!!!
whereas schvartz isn't nearly so vain about her age. She's proud of bein' a crotchity old s'kra.... heh.
<<Because it's a gigantic can of worms. Eldritch, necrotic, squamous worms, writhing in a vile stew of coagulating ichor, crushed from the living gullets of a thousand infant puppies, ululating in wordless terror. - Lorz>>
<<My impression is that when shift was released, there was some strong feeling that preserving the age of old characters was valuable as it has OOC implications about the character's player. People wanted to see very old characters retain their age as something unique to show they have been playing for a long time, so age shifts are much harder than others. I'm sure there is an IC explanation and probably other factors, but this was at least part of things back then.>>
This could very well be true, but if it is then those behind the decision were using slightly flawed logic, for two main reasons: first, if someone wants to preserve their age, then they just don't get the shift, and second, because I know many people (myself included) who have stopped playing for awhile and returned to a circle 20 character that aged a few decades without anyone playing him/her.
30 plat per year is a far more reasonable price than the ones I've seen; by the time my character (currently 18) needs one, it would be quite affordable.
I understand that it's a top tier empath ability and requires a ton of skills, but I think there's only so much you can charge for something that, as Reene said, is cosmetic and doesn't really affect your character much. Especially since in my experience those who most want these shifts are those who let their character sit for years and then returned to play. I can't imagine that the 20-30 plat per day rate draws many customers, heheh.
While I'm in the folder I might as well ask, is there an up-to-date list of shifts that can bedone floating around on the web? I never got around to anything but a build shift.
J>* Moving in with powerful grace, a bristle-backed peccary charges at you.
The head lands a heavy strike that pokes the head into your rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
[You're beat up, nimbly balanced and in very strong position.]
This could very well be true, but if it is then those behind the decision were using slightly flawed logic, for two main reasons: first, if someone wants to preserve their age, then they just don't get the shift, and second, because I know many people (myself included) who have stopped playing for awhile and returned to a circle 20 character that aged a few decades without anyone playing him/her.
30 plat per year is a far more reasonable price than the ones I've seen; by the time my character (currently 18) needs one, it would be quite affordable.
I understand that it's a top tier empath ability and requires a ton of skills, but I think there's only so much you can charge for something that, as Reene said, is cosmetic and doesn't really affect your character much. Especially since in my experience those who most want these shifts are those who let their character sit for years and then returned to play. I can't imagine that the 20-30 plat per day rate draws many customers, heheh.
While I'm in the folder I might as well ask, is there an up-to-date list of shifts that can bedone floating around on the web? I never got around to anything but a build shift.
J>* Moving in with powerful grace, a bristle-backed peccary charges at you.
The head lands a heavy strike that pokes the head into your rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
[You're beat up, nimbly balanced and in very strong position.]
> If other 100+ empaths who have actually shifted someone's age experienced a 12+ hour downtime from doing so, then and only then would I believe it.
Under the old system I would be down for ~685 roisaen for month shifts. Under the new system, I'm down ~320 roisaen.
Unless something has changed in the last 6 months, that counter underestimate the actual downtime by a significant percentage. So despite the 5 hour 20 minute estimate, I expect to be down 6.5-7 hours for months. Maybe it's more accurate these days, I dunno.
I'm short on appraisal for the year shift, but I'm guessing it's significantly longer.
~Purehand
You feel that for the moment you've learned all you can about harming shopkeepers.
Under the old system I would be down for ~685 roisaen for month shifts. Under the new system, I'm down ~320 roisaen.
Unless something has changed in the last 6 months, that counter underestimate the actual downtime by a significant percentage. So despite the 5 hour 20 minute estimate, I expect to be down 6.5-7 hours for months. Maybe it's more accurate these days, I dunno.
I'm short on appraisal for the year shift, but I'm guessing it's significantly longer.
~Purehand
You feel that for the moment you've learned all you can about harming shopkeepers.
You should be able to do year shifts with CJs, Purehand if I can.
Scholarship: 477 12% clear
Mechanical Lore: 398 87% clear
Appraisal: 466 48% learning
Empathy: 637 15% thoughtful
With Empathy and Appraisal CJ I can do the shifts but with scholarship and mech lore alone I can't for some reason.
I waas told by someone without CJs, the recovery for year shift is around 350 roisaen (rather than 700ish with CJs).
Scholarship: 477 12% clear
Mechanical Lore: 398 87% clear
Appraisal: 466 48% learning
Empathy: 637 15% thoughtful
With Empathy and Appraisal CJ I can do the shifts but with scholarship and mech lore alone I can't for some reason.
I waas told by someone without CJs, the recovery for year shift is around 350 roisaen (rather than 700ish with CJs).
The downtime for shifting a year onto or off a player is approximately 450 roisaen, so therefore you're down about 8 hours. It does seem to me to be an awfully long recovery time wait for the empath. Suprisingly, the year shift is what almost everyone asks me for now. There are a lot of long-time players who want 10 to 40 years removed as they don't like the idea of "looking old", much the same as in real life I would say!
Sophrona
Sophrona
Heh, somehow I knew Sophrona would be able to do age shifts...
The downtime's pretty huge, but if it counts time logged out, I don't see it being that bad most of the time. Unless you don't sleep or have a job, you can just arrange to shift before bed or going to work. I have a brother a few years younger who still goes to high school, so even if you're on a school schedule you could shift right before leaving and be done with the downtime before you return.
Now, if I'm wrong and the downtime doesn't include time logged out, I'd say something needs to change there.
J>* Moving in with powerful grace, a bristle-backed peccary charges at you.
The head lands a heavy strike that pokes the head into your rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
[You're beat up, nimbly balanced and in very strong position.]
The downtime's pretty huge, but if it counts time logged out, I don't see it being that bad most of the time. Unless you don't sleep or have a job, you can just arrange to shift before bed or going to work. I have a brother a few years younger who still goes to high school, so even if you're on a school schedule you could shift right before leaving and be done with the downtime before you return.
Now, if I'm wrong and the downtime doesn't include time logged out, I'd say something needs to change there.
J>* Moving in with powerful grace, a bristle-backed peccary charges at you.
The head lands a heavy strike that pokes the head into your rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
[You're beat up, nimbly balanced and in very strong position.]
I have a character that looks like the following.
Character has pointed ears and cat-slitted silver eyes. His grey mane is shoulder length and straight,
and is worn arranged in a mohawk. He has black fur with grey markings and a crooked tail.
He is young for a Prydaen.
He is in good shape.
He wants to have black fur with a grey belly. When I check him, it says that he has no primary or secondary markings and that his secondary colors are already grey. How do I make him black with a grey belly? In other words, he does not want to see markings.
Character has pointed ears and cat-slitted silver eyes. His grey mane is shoulder length and straight,
and is worn arranged in a mohawk. He has black fur with grey markings and a crooked tail.
He is young for a Prydaen.
He is in good shape.
He wants to have black fur with a grey belly. When I check him, it says that he has no primary or secondary markings and that his secondary colors are already grey. How do I make him black with a grey belly? In other words, he does not want to see markings.
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Ranik_Maps
if you use maps there you go, there's two paths up to hib, the first one is south of leth on old cranik's road, you'll need money for it but it relatively safe (barring blood mites of course)
the second path is near shard, you'll have to run through gryphons, (if you run into the gear gate you know your on the right path), go slow once you get to the ice
--
If life doesn't need intelligence,
Then why should intelligence need life?
--
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Legeres
http://www.myspace.com/ledge_ear_us
http://legeres.deviantart.com
if you use maps there you go, there's two paths up to hib, the first one is south of leth on old cranik's road, you'll need money for it but it relatively safe (barring blood mites of course)
the second path is near shard, you'll have to run through gryphons, (if you run into the gear gate you know your on the right path), go slow once you get to the ice
--
If life doesn't need intelligence,
Then why should intelligence need life?
--
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Legeres
http://www.myspace.com/ledge_ear_us
http://legeres.deviantart.com
>> I'm hoping people aren't trying to charge 300 plat X however many days are in a DR year.
Yeah, don't expect to get it for much cheaper than that. The downtime and skill involved is huge.
Rev. Reene
"What's the good of having mastery over cosmic balance and knowing the secrets of fate if you can't blow something up?"
Yeah, don't expect to get it for much cheaper than that. The downtime and skill involved is huge.
Rev. Reene
"What's the good of having mastery over cosmic balance and knowing the secrets of fate if you can't blow something up?"
>So 300 X 373+... I should expect to pay more than 111,900 plats for a single year of shifting? (+300 each for however many more days are in an elanthian year).
your math looks a bit off unless you want to shift 373 years.. making you really really old
it's not per each elanthian year (well it is but it isn't you don't go on the current year) if you want to shift your character up 2 years persay it'd be 600 plat (or whatever the empath wanted to charge)
--
If life doesn't need intelligence,
Then why should intelligence need life?
--
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Legeres
http://www.myspace.com/ledge_ear_us
http://legeres.deviantart.com
your math looks a bit off unless you want to shift 373 years.. making you really really old
it's not per each elanthian year (well it is but it isn't you don't go on the current year) if you want to shift your character up 2 years persay it'd be 600 plat (or whatever the empath wanted to charge)
--
If life doesn't need intelligence,
Then why should intelligence need life?
--
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Legeres
http://www.myspace.com/ledge_ear_us
http://legeres.deviantart.com
It goes day, month, year, for age shift increments. Year is the hardest, obviously. Even days have hours of downtime though. It's pretty nasty, honestly, and I don't agree with the huge long downtimes for shifts at all.
Also, there are 400 days in an Elanthian year. Just for reference. ;)
Rev. Reene
"What's the good of having mastery over cosmic balance and knowing the secrets of fate if you can't blow something up?"
Also, there are 400 days in an Elanthian year. Just for reference. ;)
Rev. Reene
"What's the good of having mastery over cosmic balance and knowing the secrets of fate if you can't blow something up?"
