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Can someone explain how potency messaging in predict analyze is supposed to work? Using two predictions I just made I can't even figure out a pattern to why they are messaging the way they are.
1st prediction:
Mirror ~18-19% bonus, skill affected: Engineering, 61 ranks. Bonus should be 10-11 ranks. Messages as a well above average bonus in analyze.
Messaging:
You see yourself in surroundings very much like your own. Though they are saturated with vibrant colours, the tonality is alien and wrong.
A vivid sapphire tome that transforms into a catapult.
An undulating aquamarine tome that transforms into a catapult.
2nd prediction:
Mirror, 20% bonus, skill affected: Shield Usage, 400 ranks. Bonus should be 80 ranks. Messages as an above average bonus in the analyze.
Messaging:
You see yourself in surroundings very much like your own. They are aglow with vibrant hues, inundating you with the reflected possibilities.
An undulating sapphire shield that disappears and is replaced by a tower shield.
A solid cerulean shield that shifts into a tower shield.
I can gather from that information that the predict analyze messages are ranges and that the ranges are overlapping. E.g. the range of solid is less overall than the range of undulating, but there's values where the two overlap. Likewise with undulating and vivid, respectively.
What I don't understand is why those ranges show up for the first prediction. The second one makes approximate sense. The wiki says that solid is >90 and undulating >120 currently, but that's entirely possible to be outdated and 80 ranks is not far off.
The first prediction, however, is only 10-11 ranks. How is it showing up as an even stronger prediction than the second one? It doesn't even make sense if it's based on the relative strength of the buff to the skill, since that would effectively be the same as the prediction itself and the first one was a less effective percentage than the second one but messages higher. And if it was based off relative size to the skill then the second prediction would message as a maximum strength prediction in the analyze rather than an above average one.
All of the other messaging lines up perfectly with the prediction. In particular duration, which can be calculated from the prediction messaging and matches exactly with the analyze messaging. I just can't crack the potency messaging at all. It seems all over the place.
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And a 3rd Prediction:
Mirror, 20% bonus, Skill affected: Arcana, 723 ranks. Bonus should be 144 ranks.
Messaging:
You see yourself in surroundings very much like your own. They are aglow with vibrant hues, inundating you with the reflected possibilities.
An undulating cerulean spellbook that resolves into a rune.
An undulating azure spellbook that transforms into a rune.
This one is always undulating, so I assume that means it is right in the middle of it's range. Not high enough to be vivid sometimes and not low enough to be solid sometimes. I suppose that could match with the second prediction since the analyze messages higher, albeit only slightly, and the prediction was stronger in terms of raw ranks. That's a very small messaging difference for such a large rank difference, however, but I suppose it could be explained by a very large range. E.g. vivid happens around 200+ ranks and luminous doesn't happen until around 300+ ranks or something.
It still doesn't jive with the first prediction at all, however.
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Mirror, 20% bonus, Skill affected: Arcana, 723 ranks. Bonus should be 144 ranks.
Messaging:
You see yourself in surroundings very much like your own. They are aglow with vibrant hues, inundating you with the reflected possibilities.
An undulating cerulean spellbook that resolves into a rune.
An undulating azure spellbook that transforms into a rune.
This one is always undulating, so I assume that means it is right in the middle of it's range. Not high enough to be vivid sometimes and not low enough to be solid sometimes. I suppose that could match with the second prediction since the analyze messages higher, albeit only slightly, and the prediction was stronger in terms of raw ranks. That's a very small messaging difference for such a large rank difference, however, but I suppose it could be explained by a very large range. E.g. vivid happens around 200+ ranks and luminous doesn't happen until around 300+ ranks or something.
It still doesn't jive with the first prediction at all, however.
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Last one...
4th prediction:
Mirror ~18-19% curse, skill affected: Forging, 145 ranks. Curse should be 26-27 ranks.
Messaging:
You see yourself in surroundings very much like your own. Though they are saturated with vibrant colours, the tonality is alien and wrong.
An undulating molten tome that disappears and is replaced by an anvil.
A solid scarlet tome that slowly reshapes itself into an anvil.
So a quite small curse, although not as small as the first prediction, and it is messaging the same as the 80 rank bonus in analyze. That doesn't leave much room below it for all the smaller ranges, even if it technically still fits the pattern of all the predictions but the first. That first one still makes no sense.
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4th prediction:
Mirror ~18-19% curse, skill affected: Forging, 145 ranks. Curse should be 26-27 ranks.
Messaging:
You see yourself in surroundings very much like your own. Though they are saturated with vibrant colours, the tonality is alien and wrong.
An undulating molten tome that disappears and is replaced by an anvil.
A solid scarlet tome that slowly reshapes itself into an anvil.
So a quite small curse, although not as small as the first prediction, and it is messaging the same as the 80 rank bonus in analyze. That doesn't leave much room below it for all the smaller ranges, even if it technically still fits the pattern of all the predictions but the first. That first one still makes no sense.
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Three things:
1) The messaging is based on proportional bonus, rather than the absolute bonus (although I see you just changed the elanthipedia page to say the reverse).
2) Analyze involves a skill check against the circle of your target (you, in this case), so some inaccuracy and variation is to be expected.
3) Predictions have a minimum rank boost, just like any bonus. I think it's +20? This is likely kicking in with your first prediction, which is why it looks so large.
1) The messaging is based on proportional bonus, rather than the absolute bonus (although I see you just changed the elanthipedia page to say the reverse).
2) Analyze involves a skill check against the circle of your target (you, in this case), so some inaccuracy and variation is to be expected.
3) Predictions have a minimum rank boost, just like any bonus. I think it's +20? This is likely kicking in with your first prediction, which is why it looks so large.
<<1) The messaging is based on proportional bonus, rather than the absolute bonus (although I see you just changed the elanthipedia page to say the reverse).
Yes, I changed that and then realized it wasn't quite right, which is why I came here since proportional doesn't fit either. I forgot to edit it back. Proportional doesn't fit either, since there's a cap of 20% to any bonus and even when I reach the cap it is displaying as only undulating at most and even potentially solid in one case. There's literally no space for vivid or luminous to ever message beyond that.
<<2) Analyze involves a skill check against the circle of your target (you, in this case), so some inaccuracy and variation is to be expected.
I have far more skill than necessary to never fail a predict analyze with one or two predictions on myself. And even if there's a touch of inaccuracy there, it never displays the higher levels so it cannot be that far off.
<<3) Predictions have a minimum rank boost, just like any bonus. I think it's +20? This is likely kicking in with your first prediction, which is why it looks so large.
Unless it is different than spells it's +10, which the prediction meets or exceeds.
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Yes, I changed that and then realized it wasn't quite right, which is why I came here since proportional doesn't fit either. I forgot to edit it back. Proportional doesn't fit either, since there's a cap of 20% to any bonus and even when I reach the cap it is displaying as only undulating at most and even potentially solid in one case. There's literally no space for vivid or luminous to ever message beyond that.
<<2) Analyze involves a skill check against the circle of your target (you, in this case), so some inaccuracy and variation is to be expected.
I have far more skill than necessary to never fail a predict analyze with one or two predictions on myself. And even if there's a touch of inaccuracy there, it never displays the higher levels so it cannot be that far off.
<<3) Predictions have a minimum rank boost, just like any bonus. I think it's +20? This is likely kicking in with your first prediction, which is why it looks so large.
Unless it is different than spells it's +10, which the prediction meets or exceeds.
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Here's some low proportion predictions:
Charts, 2-3% bonus, skill affected: Arcana, 723 ranks. Bonus should be 14-21
Messaging:
Comparing the "Zodiac Map" with your own recent observations you note a minor anomaly within the constellation of the Magpie (Def1).
A translucent aquamarine spellbook that disappears and is replaced by a rune.
A translucent aquamarine spellbook that slowly reshapes itself into a rune.
Charts, 1% bonus, skill affected: Engineering, 61 ranks. Bonus should be ~1 rank, boosted to 10 which is an ~16% boost.
Messaging:
Comparing the "Zodiac Map" with your own recent observations you note a trivial anomaly within the constellation of the Raven (Lor1).
A vivid azure tome that disappears and is replaced by a catapult.
A vivid azure tome that shifts into a catapult.
That still doesn't line up. The 2-3% bonus on the very high skill did message as would be appropriate for a proportional message. But the other one should only be messaging as above average to well above average since it's only a 16% boost. So far on predictions not subject to the minimum cap, vivid occurs anywhere from 16% to 19%, solid is 20%, and undulating is 18-20%. I don't think vivid is supposed to be lower in the scale than undulating and solid, at any rate. I haven't even seen luminous.
I don't doubt that it is proportional messaging, but it doesn't seem like it is messaging as it should or as is intended. In particular high percent predictions are messaging lower than you would expect, and low skill predictions are messaging higher than expected even counting the minimum bonus strength.
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Charts, 2-3% bonus, skill affected: Arcana, 723 ranks. Bonus should be 14-21
Messaging:
Comparing the "Zodiac Map" with your own recent observations you note a minor anomaly within the constellation of the Magpie (Def1).
A translucent aquamarine spellbook that disappears and is replaced by a rune.
A translucent aquamarine spellbook that slowly reshapes itself into a rune.
Charts, 1% bonus, skill affected: Engineering, 61 ranks. Bonus should be ~1 rank, boosted to 10 which is an ~16% boost.
Messaging:
Comparing the "Zodiac Map" with your own recent observations you note a trivial anomaly within the constellation of the Raven (Lor1).
A vivid azure tome that disappears and is replaced by a catapult.
A vivid azure tome that shifts into a catapult.
That still doesn't line up. The 2-3% bonus on the very high skill did message as would be appropriate for a proportional message. But the other one should only be messaging as above average to well above average since it's only a 16% boost. So far on predictions not subject to the minimum cap, vivid occurs anywhere from 16% to 19%, solid is 20%, and undulating is 18-20%. I don't think vivid is supposed to be lower in the scale than undulating and solid, at any rate. I haven't even seen luminous.
I don't doubt that it is proportional messaging, but it doesn't seem like it is messaging as it should or as is intended. In particular high percent predictions are messaging lower than you would expect, and low skill predictions are messaging higher than expected even counting the minimum bonus strength.
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Okay, not sure what to say there. Just did a test of my own:
You cast your bones before you.
The Krr-tich bounces several times and lands pointing directly towards you.
The Sek-rith skitters across the ground and rests pointing directly towards you.
The Moon Sphere comes to a stop with the top face depicting a prism.
The Sun Disk lands white side up.
You gather your bones back up.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
>predict analyze
Your masterful awareness brings the webs of fate to life as a dynamic overlay on reality. A few images materialize before your mind's eye and you pick out the following:
A luminous aquamarine spellbook that transforms into a prism. It lingers in your mind long after the form has finally scattered.
Is it possible you're misinterpreting the potency messaging on your starcharts?
You cast your bones before you.
The Krr-tich bounces several times and lands pointing directly towards you.
The Sek-rith skitters across the ground and rests pointing directly towards you.
The Moon Sphere comes to a stop with the top face depicting a prism.
The Sun Disk lands white side up.
You gather your bones back up.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
>predict analyze
Your masterful awareness brings the webs of fate to life as a dynamic overlay on reality. A few images materialize before your mind's eye and you pick out the following:
A luminous aquamarine spellbook that transforms into a prism. It lingers in your mind long after the form has finally scattered.
Is it possible you're misinterpreting the potency messaging on your starcharts?
<<Is it possible you're misinterpreting the potency messaging on your starcharts?
Starcharts, possibly, although the lowest level one should be correct. Not the mirror.
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Starcharts, possibly, although the lowest level one should be correct. Not the mirror.
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>Unless it is different than spells it's +10, which the prediction meets or exceeds.
Why would it be the same as spells? Predictions aren't part of core magic at all.
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
Why would it be the same as spells? Predictions aren't part of core magic at all.
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
<<Okay, not sure what to say there. Just did a test of my own:
I've been mulling this over and I think I may have an explanation that fits. I think what is happening is that base predictions have a cap that is lower than 20% and that in order to reach that 20% cap it requires either a well bonded tool or a high skilled vision prediction. This would explain why even though I'm getting a prediction that messages on my tool as being the most powerful I'm only getting an above average message using predict analyze. E.g. using made up numbers, a tool with minimum bond levels might only be able to achieve a 10% bonus, but still messages as the highest prediction success because that messages based on your relative success with the tool and not on the actual result. When predict analyze is used to detect that prediction, however, it only messages as a half-strength buff because analyze uses a proportion based on the 20% cap.
I think this fits with both Illiena's and my results, since I'm 99% sure they are using a capped set of bones, whereas my mirror is still only about 20-25% of the way towards a capped potency bond. So their maximum success with their bones means they are getting the full, or near to the full 20% bonus, whereas my maximum success is only getting around a 15% bonus or so.
<<Why would it be the same as spells? Predictions aren't part of core magic at all.
We've been told that predictions operate under the same caps as spells.
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I've been mulling this over and I think I may have an explanation that fits. I think what is happening is that base predictions have a cap that is lower than 20% and that in order to reach that 20% cap it requires either a well bonded tool or a high skilled vision prediction. This would explain why even though I'm getting a prediction that messages on my tool as being the most powerful I'm only getting an above average message using predict analyze. E.g. using made up numbers, a tool with minimum bond levels might only be able to achieve a 10% bonus, but still messages as the highest prediction success because that messages based on your relative success with the tool and not on the actual result. When predict analyze is used to detect that prediction, however, it only messages as a half-strength buff because analyze uses a proportion based on the 20% cap.
I think this fits with both Illiena's and my results, since I'm 99% sure they are using a capped set of bones, whereas my mirror is still only about 20-25% of the way towards a capped potency bond. So their maximum success with their bones means they are getting the full, or near to the full 20% bonus, whereas my maximum success is only getting around a 15% bonus or so.
<<Why would it be the same as spells? Predictions aren't part of core magic at all.
We've been told that predictions operate under the same caps as spells.
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It looks like predictions were made to conform to the new buff standards in 3.0, which means the crafting buffs could be capped at half the strength of regular buffs. Can we get a confirmation from a GMs if crafting predictions can exceed 10% of your skill?
> Prediction, as mentioned in other posts, won't change much - but it will function slightly differently to conform to the new buff standards. I'm hoping to finish work on it today or tomorrow but the general intent is this:
> Soft cap decreased from 30% to 20% (This is a global buff change).
> Hard cap of 150 ranks removed (New 'hard cap' of 350 ranks. 1750 * 0.2 = 350)
> Buffs now only respect the most powerful one on the target. If you give someone +10% perception from clear vision and then predict on them for +5% perception the spell will be dominant.
> Power messaging will now reflect a % of possible bonus, not an absolute rank value.
> Prediction is not subject to other spell-like limitations (Nor should other non-magic sources of buffs in general), such as the rank reduction when used on other players and SoI.
If I had to guess, I'd say all buffs respect global caps, but only buffs funneled through the magic system respect SOI.
Predictions are not subject to SoI.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:Sphere_of_influence_and_prediction_-_11/28/2012_-_14:42
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https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:Sphere_of_influence_and_prediction_-_11/28/2012_-_14:42
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>>Predictions are not subject to SoI
Agreed, as per the other person's last point on their list as well, but the reduced crafting buff cap isn't a SoI, it's a global limitation.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Agreed, as per the other person's last point on their list as well, but the reduced crafting buff cap isn't a SoI, it's a global limitation.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Technically speaking crafting skills share the same cap as anything else.
Practically speaking, they cap at 10% because the crafting system halves the input.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Practically speaking, they cap at 10% because the crafting system halves the input.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
