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I picked up a HP scroll on my WM today and went to town on some bad guys. Now I have some wicked DO and can't be healed.
Bug or feature?
All necromancy causes DO to non-necromancers. Necromancers are better equipped to deal with it (and have DO problems of their own to worry about).
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
I apologize if I've made this confusing in the past (or possibly had an enormous brainfart and mis-remembered). All five Necromancer spellbooks are necromancy. Corruption (Life + Lunar), Blood Magic (Life + Elemental), Animation, Synthetic & Transcendental (hodge-podge mix of Life + effects).
Necromancers can cast some subset of their spells without acruing even more DO than they already have because Stuff. Non-necromancers do not have any such protection.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Necromancers can cast some subset of their spells without acruing even more DO than they already have because Stuff. Non-necromancers do not have any such protection.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
>All necromancy causes DO to non-necromancers.
To further clarify, a non-necromancer casting necromancy gains divine corruption rather than divine outrage yes?
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
To further clarify, a non-necromancer casting necromancy gains divine corruption rather than divine outrage yes?
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
Yes, I was being lazy with my terminology. Non-Necros get * Corruption for their actions, the * Outrage meters are specific to Necromancers.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Yeah, Divine (and Social) Corruption are impermanent.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
>Does this corruption decay over time? I sure hope so. Otherwise. Woof.
Mind posting again when you get your divine corruption to drain back to zero? I'm curious how many hours it takes for a non-necromancer to recover from high levels of corruption. In TF you should see 6 hours of decay/drain time each day iirc. Assuming you don't just keep casting Heighten Pain of course. Are you immune to beneficial clerical spells at the moment?
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
Mind posting again when you get your divine corruption to drain back to zero? I'm curious how many hours it takes for a non-necromancer to recover from high levels of corruption. In TF you should see 6 hours of decay/drain time each day iirc. Assuming you don't just keep casting Heighten Pain of course. Are you immune to beneficial clerical spells at the moment?
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
The * Corruptions are VERY short-lived. Did some experimenting with a Cleric pal recently and his DC only lasted maybe an hour or two after casting HP a bunch while hunting.
I really wish SO/DO were universal tracts instead of Necromancer-only but I don't expect to see that happen any time soon.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
I really wish SO/DO were universal tracts instead of Necromancer-only but I don't expect to see that happen any time soon.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
Arrested and fined yes (like the inability to use banks and stuff). I was referring to the fact that if you don't bin your rep goes to crap and you get thugged, and kept out of guild abilities/perks. Non thieves can steal all they want and it doesn't matter, they just have fines/arrests. The only reason you don't see MORE non thieves taking advantage of it, is that people are inherently lazy and it takes a lot of work.
I was saying sometimes things have to suck for the guild they are intended for while other guilds get off easier. Thieves were the original "hard mode".
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
I was saying sometimes things have to suck for the guild they are intended for while other guilds get off easier. Thieves were the original "hard mode".
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
I promise you SO is not any more playable for Necromancers than it is for anyone else at the moment. It's flat-out worse. I'm not even talking about giving, say, people with sorcery permanently learned Suspicion to deal with, though that would be funny as hell.
DO we arguably do, sure, solely by virtue of being able to heal ourselves. I don't see how that's really a problem though considering the system is 100% opt-in and does nothing especially interesting nor grants special access to any skills. You want the Evil Arrpee chops, take the Evil Arrpee consequences.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
DO we arguably do, sure, solely by virtue of being able to heal ourselves. I don't see how that's really a problem though considering the system is 100% opt-in and does nothing especially interesting nor grants special access to any skills. You want the Evil Arrpee chops, take the Evil Arrpee consequences.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
>>Indeed, but as I re-iterate... >Sometimes things are only "playable" for one guild and not another.
this really has nothing to do with the discussion, and isn't accurate at all, especially in the context of social outrage. you might maybe have a case with divine outrage, since it blocks empathic healing.
I'm also of the mindset that I would rather see corruption gone and everyone run on outrage, with only necros being capable of hitting the top tier terrible results. But I trust our lord and master Armifer to make evil magic miserable for the unwashed masses.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
this really has nothing to do with the discussion, and isn't accurate at all, especially in the context of social outrage. you might maybe have a case with divine outrage, since it blocks empathic healing.
I'm also of the mindset that I would rather see corruption gone and everyone run on outrage, with only necros being capable of hitting the top tier terrible results. But I trust our lord and master Armifer to make evil magic miserable for the unwashed masses.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I'm comfortable accepting that an angry mob might just run a Sorcerer out of town as opposed to just executing a Necromancer. Would it technically happen that way, probably not. But I'm cool with it.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I cast HP about a dozen times. It resolved after an hour. HP also burned my hand off. So I had to resort to sorcery (blood staunch) to save myself from dying from sorcery, since empaths couldn't heal me either.
Fun times.
This system is more onerous for non-narcos than narcos, because they could cast these spells all day and never get themselves in trouble. We don't have access to the true DO causing spells. Its more like a non thief getting arrested for owning a lockpick.
I get the DO/bad juju from casting arcane spells, but I really struggle with the retcon that an empath casting ethereal shield is doing a bad. I mean, shouldn't that mean that runestones should be highly regulated by society, because they allow any MU access to sorcery.
But this particular system is very well done. It's basically saying, "aw thats cute you want to play at narcomancer? here, have instant DO/SO and get burned at the stake for a minor spell." It makes the whole narco experience consistent across the board and trolls nubs/dilettantes for thinking they could handle it.
Fun times.
This system is more onerous for non-narcos than narcos, because they could cast these spells all day and never get themselves in trouble. We don't have access to the true DO causing spells. Its more like a non thief getting arrested for owning a lockpick.
I get the DO/bad juju from casting arcane spells, but I really struggle with the retcon that an empath casting ethereal shield is doing a bad. I mean, shouldn't that mean that runestones should be highly regulated by society, because they allow any MU access to sorcery.
But this particular system is very well done. It's basically saying, "aw thats cute you want to play at narcomancer? here, have instant DO/SO and get burned at the stake for a minor spell." It makes the whole narco experience consistent across the board and trolls nubs/dilettantes for thinking they could handle it.
>I get the DO/bad juju from casting arcane spells, but I really struggle with the retcon that an empath casting ethereal shield is doing a bad. I mean, shouldn't that mean that runestones should be highly regulated by society, because they allow any MU access to sorcery.
It's not 'bad' or evil, and there's been no retcon of this sort. Sorcery itself isn't evil, but it's morality is often debated by characters in game. While all necromancy is sorcery (technically); All sorcery is NOT necromancy. The types of combined mana Armifer referred to are for very specific spells. Out of realm sorcerous spell casting isn't necromancy. Is it mixing those same mana types in some cases? Yes, but the spell pattern itself does not require them to function so it's not Necromancy.
In your example, an Empath casting Ethereal Shield is performing low sorcery, with a lower case 'S', which is not any type of Necromancy. You only run into FUN things when you have a sorcerous backlash (or you make the choice to use a really dangerous spell like a Necromancer guild spell or guild sorcery). Common townsfolk can't tell one sorcerous backlash for another, so they just burn all the evil sorcerers playing with bad things who could be Necromancers. Sorcery is supposed to be dangerous, and FUN in the Dwarf Fortress sense of the word.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Sorcery
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Social_Outrage#Social_Outrage
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
It's not 'bad' or evil, and there's been no retcon of this sort. Sorcery itself isn't evil, but it's morality is often debated by characters in game. While all necromancy is sorcery (technically); All sorcery is NOT necromancy. The types of combined mana Armifer referred to are for very specific spells. Out of realm sorcerous spell casting isn't necromancy. Is it mixing those same mana types in some cases? Yes, but the spell pattern itself does not require them to function so it's not Necromancy.
In your example, an Empath casting Ethereal Shield is performing low sorcery, with a lower case 'S', which is not any type of Necromancy. You only run into FUN things when you have a sorcerous backlash (or you make the choice to use a really dangerous spell like a Necromancer guild spell or guild sorcery). Common townsfolk can't tell one sorcerous backlash for another, so they just burn all the evil sorcerers playing with bad things who could be Necromancers. Sorcery is supposed to be dangerous, and FUN in the Dwarf Fortress sense of the word.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Sorcery
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Social_Outrage#Social_Outrage
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Well, let's separate out destructiveness from moral evil from divine will.
Sorcery is destructive, regardless of form. But you could argue half the things a Moon Mage does before breakfast also qualifies here.
Visible sorcery is a moral evil (as far as society is concerned), since they can't tell the difference.
The gods by and large don't care about sorcery, except when it becomes necromancy.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Sorcery is destructive, regardless of form. But you could argue half the things a Moon Mage does before breakfast also qualifies here.
Visible sorcery is a moral evil (as far as society is concerned), since they can't tell the difference.
The gods by and large don't care about sorcery, except when it becomes necromancy.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Doing a bad refers to these two bits specifically:
1) Sorcery is violent. It may be darkly pervasive, metaphysically violent, or even literally violent, but at some level it will be breaking something[5]. This is an infuriating but nonetheless immutable element of sorcery spellbooks: it's never "nice.
3) Sorcery is greedy. Sorcery exists to create in the world that which does not and cannot exist, because the magician arrogantly says it should or attempts to do alone with sorcery what could be done with outside help or with an intentional mien of misanthropy.
Which is why the commonly-available runestone in the hands of an innocent empath is sort of the extreme example, or where past meets present and the current system has a hiccup.
That said, I vastly prefer the current system and train of thought.
1) Sorcery is violent. It may be darkly pervasive, metaphysically violent, or even literally violent, but at some level it will be breaking something[5]. This is an infuriating but nonetheless immutable element of sorcery spellbooks: it's never "nice.
3) Sorcery is greedy. Sorcery exists to create in the world that which does not and cannot exist, because the magician arrogantly says it should or attempts to do alone with sorcery what could be done with outside help or with an intentional mien of misanthropy.
Which is why the commonly-available runestone in the hands of an innocent empath is sort of the extreme example, or where past meets present and the current system has a hiccup.
That said, I vastly prefer the current system and train of thought.
I worded it strongly there for effect, but the core of it is still true. An Empath with an ES rune is risking destruction and unknowable metaphysical effects to do it himself instead of lowering himself to say "Hey, Warmie Bob, could you cast ES on me?"
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
