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With a tentative release of late this month and the woefully out of date Risen page on Epedia, I think its a good time to start a dialog to set expectations as well as dispel some misconceptions about Risen. With that, here are some very general questions about Risen mechanics.
Movement:
The old info states movement will be done via manual commands. Is this still true? Can Risen be set follow the Necromancer or will be need to command them to come to us repeatedly if we want an escort?
Sight and Communication:
We all know this is possible in Lore, P1 guildhall makes this abundantly clear. However can a PC see through his/her Risen? Can the Risen speak?
Equipment:
To what degree can a Risen make use of equipment and Weapons?
Abilities:
Can Risen use stealth? Will Risen be combat worthy? Do Risen decay or expire? Can they be destroyed?
Control:
Do we require an item to control risen? Will commands cause RT?
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
>>To what degree can a Risen make use of equipment and Weapons?
To expand further on that: how much "risk" is associated with giving them equipment?
Would also love to have an understanding of duration. Are they an "until they are violently removed from this world" type of thing (aka: familiars but you can explode them), or do they naturally die off after a certain amount of time (maybe unless some kind of upkeep is performed).
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
To expand further on that: how much "risk" is associated with giving them equipment?
Would also love to have an understanding of duration. Are they an "until they are violently removed from this world" type of thing (aka: familiars but you can explode them), or do they naturally die off after a certain amount of time (maybe unless some kind of upkeep is performed).
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>>Risen questions!
Risen answers!
Movement:
The Risen can be set to follow you, or you can manually move it around via COMMAND when it's not doing a specific task for you. It will not be able to go into certain areas, and will get twitchy both in town or in safe areas
Sight and Communication:
Yes, a PC can see and speak through the Risen if you have trained it to do so. However unlike familiars, Risen can be killed (re-killed? but they get better!).
Equipment:
Risen who are designed to do in-town tasks can wear clothing, and hooded cloaks will provide bonuses to them. Combat-trained Risen can make use of weapons.
Abilities:
Risen who are trained in stealth can use stealth. Risen can participate in combat, but will pretty much never be as combat worthy as your CFB zombie, and you cannot use both at once (or more than one Risen at once, either). You will buy scrolls to teach your Risen different things. You can also make as many Risen as you want, so you can have different ones designed/trained for different tasks. The main costs to making multiple Risen is the time it takes to gather body parts, and the price of the scrolls you use to teach them.
Control:
Controlling risen requires a fetish that is tied to that particular risen. Commands do not cause RT. If you lose your fetish, you lose that Risen. Sorry.
How They Can Look:
Risen can look like NPCs, but not PCs. They can also be arrested in town, so be careful.
Risk of Equipment Loss:
This is similar to CFB zombies; If you're equipping one, don't give a Risen anything you'd be devastated to lose. Specific tasks (like sending your Risen to go repair your stuff) are safe, but equipping them directly has a chance to lead to item loss.
Duration:
Risen are effectively immortal, though if they are damaged enough, they have to rest and regenerate for a time before they are usable again. There is also no time limit for having a Risen out (except for the possibility of it getting re-murdered and needed to regen before it can be used again).
A Note on Training:
What a Risen can learn how to do will depend heavily on how much humanity it has, how skilled it was when put together, and the quality of the specimens used to make it.
-Persida
Risen answers!
Movement:
The Risen can be set to follow you, or you can manually move it around via COMMAND when it's not doing a specific task for you. It will not be able to go into certain areas, and will get twitchy both in town or in safe areas
Sight and Communication:
Yes, a PC can see and speak through the Risen if you have trained it to do so. However unlike familiars, Risen can be killed (re-killed? but they get better!).
Equipment:
Risen who are designed to do in-town tasks can wear clothing, and hooded cloaks will provide bonuses to them. Combat-trained Risen can make use of weapons.
Abilities:
Risen who are trained in stealth can use stealth. Risen can participate in combat, but will pretty much never be as combat worthy as your CFB zombie, and you cannot use both at once (or more than one Risen at once, either). You will buy scrolls to teach your Risen different things. You can also make as many Risen as you want, so you can have different ones designed/trained for different tasks. The main costs to making multiple Risen is the time it takes to gather body parts, and the price of the scrolls you use to teach them.
Control:
Controlling risen requires a fetish that is tied to that particular risen. Commands do not cause RT. If you lose your fetish, you lose that Risen. Sorry.
How They Can Look:
Risen can look like NPCs, but not PCs. They can also be arrested in town, so be careful.
Risk of Equipment Loss:
This is similar to CFB zombies; If you're equipping one, don't give a Risen anything you'd be devastated to lose. Specific tasks (like sending your Risen to go repair your stuff) are safe, but equipping them directly has a chance to lead to item loss.
Duration:
Risen are effectively immortal, though if they are damaged enough, they have to rest and regenerate for a time before they are usable again. There is also no time limit for having a Risen out (except for the possibility of it getting re-murdered and needed to regen before it can be used again).
A Note on Training:
What a Risen can learn how to do will depend heavily on how much humanity it has, how skilled it was when put together, and the quality of the specimens used to make it.
-Persida
Two questions, if you wouldn't mind.
1) Why was the decision to not allow zombies and Risen out at the same time made?
2) What limits one Risen from becoming "perfect" by learning everything? How do we improve humanity? How skilled is I assume Thanatology ranks? And what dictates quality of speciment, skinning?
Thanks!
"If I take death into my life, acknowledge it, and face it squarely, I will free myself from the anxiety of death and the pettiness of life - and only then will I be free to become myself." ~ Martin Heidegger
1) Why was the decision to not allow zombies and Risen out at the same time made?
2) What limits one Risen from becoming "perfect" by learning everything? How do we improve humanity? How skilled is I assume Thanatology ranks? And what dictates quality of speciment, skinning?
Thanks!
"If I take death into my life, acknowledge it, and face it squarely, I will free myself from the anxiety of death and the pettiness of life - and only then will I be free to become myself." ~ Martin Heidegger
>Risen answers!
::DROOLS::
>Controlling risen requires a fetish that is tied to that particular risen. Commands do not cause RT. If you lose your fetish, you lose that Risen. Sorry.
Any hope of bonding\registering a fetish? Depending on how much work it takes to make (Im guessing a lot) I would really loathe losing one.
Also, how much variance will there be in Fetish Look/Tap? If I am crazy and manage to make 10 Risen each for a specialized task, will it be easy for me to find any particular one or will I have to cycle through until I find the right tool for the task?
>Risen can look like NPCs, but not PCs. They can also be arrested in town, so be careful.
Possible future Risen alterations? :)
>Yes, a PC can see and speak through the Risen if you have trained it to do so. However unlike familiars, Risen can be killed (re-killed? but they get better!).
Super weird question, can risen emote (smile/laugh/etc)?
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
::DROOLS::
>Controlling risen requires a fetish that is tied to that particular risen. Commands do not cause RT. If you lose your fetish, you lose that Risen. Sorry.
Any hope of bonding\registering a fetish? Depending on how much work it takes to make (Im guessing a lot) I would really loathe losing one.
Also, how much variance will there be in Fetish Look/Tap? If I am crazy and manage to make 10 Risen each for a specialized task, will it be easy for me to find any particular one or will I have to cycle through until I find the right tool for the task?
>Risen can look like NPCs, but not PCs. They can also be arrested in town, so be careful.
Possible future Risen alterations? :)
>Yes, a PC can see and speak through the Risen if you have trained it to do so. However unlike familiars, Risen can be killed (re-killed? but they get better!).
Super weird question, can risen emote (smile/laugh/etc)?
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Very cool. One question
Does not having both at the same time mean...they can't both be in combat at the same time? I was under the impression when we had our meeting with Book, not that I can have another..haha, that we could have both a zombie and risen out as well as a construct. I totally get not having both be able to do combat.
Thanks!
Zehira
I don't feel that I need to explain my art to you, Warren.
Does not having both at the same time mean...they can't both be in combat at the same time? I was under the impression when we had our meeting with Book, not that I can have another..haha, that we could have both a zombie and risen out as well as a construct. I totally get not having both be able to do combat.
Thanks!
Zehira
I don't feel that I need to explain my art to you, Warren.
Given this:
>>you cannot use both at once (or more than one Risen at once, either)
How close can the 'pretty much' part of the next statement be pushed if we devote every option exclusively to combat?
>>Risen can participate in combat, but will pretty much never be as combat worthy as your CFB zombie
I can get not wanting to have to balance around giving us another damage stream and I can somewhat get a little loss of killing power in trade for not having a duration, but how far off from a CFB zombie are we talking if it's all we put into the risen?
Non combat risen question: Can they shop? Like can I use it to buy crafting supplies at societies? Can I use it to shop at trader shops? Accepting the risk in both scenarios that anyone could spot it and kill it.
>>you cannot use both at once (or more than one Risen at once, either)
How close can the 'pretty much' part of the next statement be pushed if we devote every option exclusively to combat?
>>Risen can participate in combat, but will pretty much never be as combat worthy as your CFB zombie
I can get not wanting to have to balance around giving us another damage stream and I can somewhat get a little loss of killing power in trade for not having a duration, but how far off from a CFB zombie are we talking if it's all we put into the risen?
Non combat risen question: Can they shop? Like can I use it to buy crafting supplies at societies? Can I use it to shop at trader shops? Accepting the risk in both scenarios that anyone could spot it and kill it.
>>Risen can look like NPCs, but not PCs. They can also be arrested in town, so be careful.
>>What a Risen can learn how to do will depend heavily on how much humanity it has, how skilled it was when put together, and the quality of the specimens used to make it.
With this, I'm hoping that we can build a super friendly town version with SO MUCH humanity and skill when put together, that it would be very difficult, dare I say not even possible, to report to the guards. The system should fire back a similar response when trying to accuse a regular town NPC.
At the same time the super town friendly NPC Risen would be limited in other aspects I imagine.
I'm just afraid that as soon as accuse-trigger-happy folks see a unrecognized NPC roaming around town they'll ACCUSE quicker than you can say META!
>>What a Risen can learn how to do will depend heavily on how much humanity it has, how skilled it was when put together, and the quality of the specimens used to make it.
With this, I'm hoping that we can build a super friendly town version with SO MUCH humanity and skill when put together, that it would be very difficult, dare I say not even possible, to report to the guards. The system should fire back a similar response when trying to accuse a regular town NPC.
At the same time the super town friendly NPC Risen would be limited in other aspects I imagine.
I'm just afraid that as soon as accuse-trigger-happy folks see a unrecognized NPC roaming around town they'll ACCUSE quicker than you can say META!
Excited about all this info, so thank you!
>>town or in safe areas
For DR purposes, are "towns" anything flagged as a justice zone?
>>Controlling risen requires a fetish that is tied to that particular risen. Commands do not cause RT. If you lose your fetish, you lose that Risen. Sorry.
Can Necro A sell/give a fetish tied to a risen to Necro B?
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>>town or in safe areas
For DR purposes, are "towns" anything flagged as a justice zone?
>>Controlling risen requires a fetish that is tied to that particular risen. Commands do not cause RT. If you lose your fetish, you lose that Risen. Sorry.
Can Necro A sell/give a fetish tied to a risen to Necro B?
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>>With this, I'm hoping that we can build a super friendly town version with SO MUCH humanity and skill when put together, that it would be very difficult, dare I say not even possible, to report to the guards
Just add more organs to your Risen. More organs means more human!
I do have a concern about Town Risen. What will stop some jerk using OOC info to just kill every Town Risen off as soon as they start walking about? I mean from a player perspective I don't see how they are going to blend into town when we all know the handful of NPCs that already haunt cities. IC unless they've got extra limbs, horse legs(OMG centar Risen for riding!!), or you can clearly see slime oozing from where their head has been quickly stitched to their neck, they would be no different than the thousands of NPCs that bustle about the city that we don't "see". But, all it takes is a handful of people to put an end to our fun reindeer games.
>Why would you say this? In the history of DR, have they ever put a guild ability behind a paywall? One time? Not that I can think of.
No, and in retrospect, the guild skill related items behind paywalls (dragon familiar, prayer mats, various astro tools) are all effectively fluff or convenience. I hope it continues along that, and if any risen scrolls are behind a paywall, they are entirely fluffy.
>Do we know the circle requirement yet for the use/creation of risen?
IIRC it was slated for 50 way back when.
>What limits one Risen from becoming "perfect" by learning everything? How do we improve humanity? How skilled is I assume Thanatology ranks? And what dictates quality of speciment, skinning?
I believe your guess on Thanatology being the skill that gates the amount of scrolls you can apply is likely correct. I wager that FA determines the quality of the specimen. I would love to be able to actually DO something with my FA ranks.
>You will buy scrolls to teach your Risen different things.
Are the scrolls single use?
Microtrans concerns aside, this feels a bit weird for a group of cultists that mostly eschews material wealth due to the risks of social interation. That said, I figure its better than another slotted ability set like the previously discarded Necro research system. And for simplicity sake and can just hand wave it and say that the coin goes to lab upkeep/cleaning fees or something similar.
>Can Necro A sell/give a fetish tied to a risen to Necro B?
The closest thing to this happening in lore that Im aware of is someone creating a new body for Xerasyth. Personally I would be against it, I really dont want a 'Risen Market' in game.
>Risen are effectively immortal, though if they are damaged enough, they have to rest and regenerate for a time before they are usable again.
Can the Necrotic Reconstruction spell be used to heal a Risen before its reached its max damage threshold? Also, will Reverse Putrefaction work on making Combat risen slightly more effective?
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
IIRC it was slated for 50 way back when.
>What limits one Risen from becoming "perfect" by learning everything? How do we improve humanity? How skilled is I assume Thanatology ranks? And what dictates quality of speciment, skinning?
I believe your guess on Thanatology being the skill that gates the amount of scrolls you can apply is likely correct. I wager that FA determines the quality of the specimen. I would love to be able to actually DO something with my FA ranks.
>You will buy scrolls to teach your Risen different things.
Are the scrolls single use?
Microtrans concerns aside, this feels a bit weird for a group of cultists that mostly eschews material wealth due to the risks of social interation. That said, I figure its better than another slotted ability set like the previously discarded Necro research system. And for simplicity sake and can just hand wave it and say that the coin goes to lab upkeep/cleaning fees or something similar.
>Can Necro A sell/give a fetish tied to a risen to Necro B?
The closest thing to this happening in lore that Im aware of is someone creating a new body for Xerasyth. Personally I would be against it, I really dont want a 'Risen Market' in game.
>Risen are effectively immortal, though if they are damaged enough, they have to rest and regenerate for a time before they are usable again.
Can the Necrotic Reconstruction spell be used to heal a Risen before its reached its max damage threshold? Also, will Reverse Putrefaction work on making Combat risen slightly more effective?
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
> Why would you say this? In the history of DR, have they ever put a guild ability behind a paywall? One time? Not that I can think of.
They've never crossed the line but they've edged pretty close to it.
- Concentration necklaces = +1 Khri compared to all other thieves.
- IZ was introduced at the safari and then made a very rare drop in game.
- I don't remember, but wasn't BoTN the same?
>>Are the scrolls single use?
Alternative version of this question: are they single use for the necromancer, if they're learning from the scrolls as opposed to teaching the risen from the scroll?
Like if I had to buy a scroll to learn how to make risen do X, and after reading it I could teach any risen how to do X as long as they have "space" (or capability?), that would be the best situation IMO.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Alternative version of this question: are they single use for the necromancer, if they're learning from the scrolls as opposed to teaching the risen from the scroll?
Like if I had to buy a scroll to learn how to make risen do X, and after reading it I could teach any risen how to do X as long as they have "space" (or capability?), that would be the best situation IMO.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>>Personally I would be against it, I really dont want a 'Risen Market' in game.
On the other hand, it would be neat if creating a Risen could be a collaborative effort. I know it's a bit anti-how-Philosophers-work, but the idea of a couple Necros getting together to build godzilla sounds like an amusing process.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
On the other hand, it would be neat if creating a Risen could be a collaborative effort. I know it's a bit anti-how-Philosophers-work, but the idea of a couple Necros getting together to build godzilla sounds like an amusing process.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Are Risen realistically supposed to be released soon (within a couple months)? If so, that's pretty exciting.
I love the idea of sending Risen into town to take care of tasks for me.
On the combat side of things, I'd love to hear more about mechanics. How long can they stay summoned? How autonomous or controllable will they be? Will they teach TM?
Thanks,
I love the idea of sending Risen into town to take care of tasks for me.
On the combat side of things, I'd love to hear more about mechanics. How long can they stay summoned? How autonomous or controllable will they be? Will they teach TM?
Thanks,
Oh! I hope this isn't inappropriate, but one of the long standing issues with zombies and mudmen is that any lodged ammo in them will eventually result in maximal damage to that body part, and is not tendable or NRable out. If at all possible, if you're digging through the code, could we get this addressed, at least for our Risen?
>>Oh! I hope this isn't inappropriate, but one of the long standing issues with zombies and mudmen is that any lodged ammo in them will eventually result in maximal damage to that body part, and is not tendable or NRable out. If at all possible, if you're digging through the code, could we get this addressed, at least for our Risen?
A sufficiently strong NR will now take care of this for all minion types.
GM Grejuva
A sufficiently strong NR will now take care of this for all minion types.
GM Grejuva
