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So today I was looking at Consume Flesh and realized the numbers are not adding up the way I'd like them to.
Two options, I'd like your opinions on them.
1) A moderate uptick in mana efficiency and wound cap. No strings attached, the spell will simply heal moderately better than it does now.
2) A drastic uptick in mana efficiency and wound cap, but with a new requirement that you specify healing wounds or scars (like Empaths are forced to do with Heal Wounds and Heal Scars spells).
Which would you prefer? Vote is non-binding, this is just to gauge opinions, etc.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
No wounds/scars option for me. I like the simplicity.
I also like knowing I can fully clean up a part in one cast if I'm not messed up enough.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I also like knowing I can fully clean up a part in one cast if I'm not messed up enough.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>>DR-Armifer: Which would you prefer? Vote is non-binding, this is just to gauge opinions, etc.
Why not both? Option 1 happens if you don't specify wounds or scars (compare with the Heal spell for Empaths). Option 2 happens if you're specific (compare with Heal Wounds or Heal Scars).
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
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Why not both? Option 1 happens if you don't specify wounds or scars (compare with the Heal spell for Empaths). Option 2 happens if you're specific (compare with Heal Wounds or Heal Scars).
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
I would prefer the first option frankly, as it's less work. I think in addition to this we should have the ability to cast Consume Flesh more than once on a single corpse, perhaps up to a cap determined by your Thanatology ranks.
This would, incidentally, be complimented quite nicely by a TM spell that attacks vitality directly.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
This would, incidentally, be complimented quite nicely by a TM spell that attacks vitality directly.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
First option. As a lowish necromancer I've found the healing Ok, but having never played an empath I can't compare on a per-cast basis. I'd like to think ours would be "better" since we have to go through so much more work to get it going, but I'm not sure where power design decisions are these days.
Anyways, big reason why we shouldn't have to choose is that we can't see low level scars. Otherwise we'll feel compelled to occasionally cast for scars.
Also, at least for me, getting into combat, killing something and then consuming it takes a bit too long for HUGE wounds, so I'm mostly cleaning up cuts and bruises, so I don't need drastic upticks in efficiency, I need coverage (I know devour supposedly covers this, but I read that it is limited to most of the time fully healing only one or two body locations.)
Anyways, big reason why we shouldn't have to choose is that we can't see low level scars. Otherwise we'll feel compelled to occasionally cast for scars.
Also, at least for me, getting into combat, killing something and then consuming it takes a bit too long for HUGE wounds, so I'm mostly cleaning up cuts and bruises, so I don't need drastic upticks in efficiency, I need coverage (I know devour supposedly covers this, but I read that it is limited to most of the time fully healing only one or two body locations.)
Option 1, though Devour is still my go to heal spell.
Necromantic healing is good, but it's not fast. If CF was split into a HW/HS type spell, it would take forever for younger Necromancers to heal things down. The limiting factor here is not 'how much it heals' but 'how many bodies do you have to consume'. I currently only ever use CF when I've backlashed my hand(s) and/or arm(s) off, and have a really bad wound on one part of my body. If it took two casts to clean that off, CFs utility would be pretty low.
If CF was turned into a HW/HS type spell, I'd want to see Devour turned into a cyclic that acted more like regen, and pulsed X times per CONSUMEd corpse. As it stands, having CF act as a combined HW/HS makes sense because it takes corpses to work, and having DEVOUR work as Heal works, but feels underpowered because of the requirement of needing corpses to work.
My intention is for CF to be more useful than Devour in conventional usage, while Devour gets a separate, useful upgrade that I won't talk about until the proposal is approved.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Devour and Heal share the same issue unfortunately, and they are slated to be re-evaluated at some point, though what that will end up looking like is still a mystery.
CF's issue is that it requires just as much if not more mana as Devour to heal most levels of wounds on top of having other constraints that Devour does not share, so it becomes a matter of "why am I not just casting Devour?" once you get the spell.
I'm really happy to hear CF is getting a look-over to make it more desirable as a result.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
CF's issue is that it requires just as much if not more mana as Devour to heal most levels of wounds on top of having other constraints that Devour does not share, so it becomes a matter of "why am I not just casting Devour?" once you get the spell.
I'm really happy to hear CF is getting a look-over to make it more desirable as a result.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
My sense is that CF is more efficient in terms of healing than Devour is, but that Devour can hit up to 4 'spots'. That may be because CF overhealing works on scars too - for what it's worth, it's a spot heal I wish Empaths had access to as well, as the separation of HW/HS always seemed very silly when just adding CAST SCAR seems like a simple solution.
For CF to be more useful than Devour for conventional day to day healing, it would need a few improvements, not what amounts to a nerf. One consideration is that the primary use, I'd say, of HW/HS for Empaths beyond like... 20th circle... is not actually healing wounds, but specifically only healing internals to maintain bleeders. The separation of wound and scar healing for them only really serves to allow more specificity for wound healing - most situations call for FoC or a minutes worth of Regen.
Since our rituals teach FA (and pet bleeders are stupid), we don't have this requirement.
CF isn't presently more efficient though, in either mana or sheer amount of casting and prep work. Devour technically hits 4 'spots' but this ends up being a single body part per cast unless you are only healing scars. So Devour is your go-to unless you're doing something specific and weird. Hopefully this change makes CF a lot more desirable by virtue of making it cost a lot less to heal yourself if you're in a position to be choosy about how you kill something.
I don't know what you mean by CF "overhealing" working on scars too. CF doesn't leave scars from fresh wounds.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
I don't know what you mean by CF "overhealing" working on scars too. CF doesn't leave scars from fresh wounds.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
My sense of the way they stack out -
CF = HW/HS rolled into one. The 'overhealing', that is, the remnant healing after the wounds (external and internal) have been healed to 0, is applied to scars. CF produces more 'points of healing' per mana invested in the spell than Devour does, but obviously only hits one location.
Devour = Heal. It's the exact same spell, minus a corpse requirement. Healing is applied to most severe wound, then most severe scar, and targets four wounds. It produces less 'points of healing' per mana invested in the spell than CF does, but the obvious utility here is A ) you don't have to call a location and B ) overhealing goes to other wound/scars, making it ideal for cleaning up a bunch of scuffs.
For me, if I backlash off my arm, a single 50 mana cast of CF will heal it from a stump to perfectly healthy, but a 50 mana Devour may not. CF is more efficient in terms of 'heal points per mana'.
CF = HW/HS rolled into one. The 'overhealing', that is, the remnant healing after the wounds (external and internal) have been healed to 0, is applied to scars. CF produces more 'points of healing' per mana invested in the spell than Devour does, but obviously only hits one location.
Devour = Heal. It's the exact same spell, minus a corpse requirement. Healing is applied to most severe wound, then most severe scar, and targets four wounds. It produces less 'points of healing' per mana invested in the spell than CF does, but the obvious utility here is A ) you don't have to call a location and B ) overhealing goes to other wound/scars, making it ideal for cleaning up a bunch of scuffs.
For me, if I backlash off my arm, a single 50 mana cast of CF will heal it from a stump to perfectly healthy, but a 50 mana Devour may not. CF is more efficient in terms of 'heal points per mana'.
>> CF produces more 'points of healing' per mana invested in the spell than Devour does, but obviously only hits one location.
This is untrue, though. Are you stating what it should be? Because yes, CF should be more mana efficient than Devour, but it isn't at present, which is presumably why it's being looked at. It takes far less mana to heal a stump with Devour than it does with CF presently. I know this because I do it multiple times per day while hunting.
Devour (and Heal) in theory heals up to four "parts" but due to how the mechanic for both spells presently works it shakes out to only one body part per cast at best if you're healing normal fresh wounds. I don't expect this aspect of Devour to be addressed any time soon though.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
This is untrue, though. Are you stating what it should be? Because yes, CF should be more mana efficient than Devour, but it isn't at present, which is presumably why it's being looked at. It takes far less mana to heal a stump with Devour than it does with CF presently. I know this because I do it multiple times per day while hunting.
Devour (and Heal) in theory heals up to four "parts" but due to how the mechanic for both spells presently works it shakes out to only one body part per cast at best if you're healing normal fresh wounds. I don't expect this aspect of Devour to be addressed any time soon though.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
Nice update, Armifer!
I can't test it right now so I apologize if this part is already blatant, but can you tell how many casts you can grab off a corpse, or is it something you just need to get a feel for.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I can't test it right now so I apologize if this part is already blatant, but can you tell how many casts you can grab off a corpse, or is it something you just need to get a feel for.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Something you need to get a feel for. I might come out with the amount and cap later if players don't beat me to the punch, but I figured it'd be fun to let people explore it first.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Neat! Few thoughts -
The timer on critter decay is such that even if you had, arbitrarily, 4 billion consumes on a corpse, there's no way you're going to pull off more than 3-6 full preps. This isn't a bad thing, just an observation, or maybe a consideration to increase the decay timer a tad on corpses that have been prepared for consumption.
There's no notification that I've seen that you've 'maximally consumed' a corpse, which might be kind of annoying. Or, as intended.
Using Devour here after 2-3 quick CFs seems a good way to clean up scratches, so, extra neat!
Neat all around!
>>The timer on critter decay is such that even if you had, arbitrarily, 4 billion consumes on a corpse, there's no way you're going to pull off more than 3-6 full preps. This isn't a bad thing, just an observation, or maybe a consideration to increase the decay timer a tad on corpses that have been prepared for consumption.
An update earlier this year made it so you can use consume on preserved corpses. Preservation should give you more than enough time to use even the maximum amount of casts.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
An update earlier this year made it so you can use consume on preserved corpses. Preservation should give you more than enough time to use even the maximum amount of casts.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Personally I'd rather not micro-manage scars in the middle of combat. So I'd go for option #1.
Regarding Devour, I always thought it should be a cyclic that gradually consumes any prepared corpse in the room to heal you as long as you hold mana. Even consuming a corpse's leg to heal your arm, at an efficiency penalty modulated by Thanatology. And it needs better, more ominous messaging that isn't exactly like CF. :)
Just my 2 cents.
Cheers!
Regarding Devour, I always thought it should be a cyclic that gradually consumes any prepared corpse in the room to heal you as long as you hold mana. Even consuming a corpse's leg to heal your arm, at an efficiency penalty modulated by Thanatology. And it needs better, more ominous messaging that isn't exactly like CF. :)
Just my 2 cents.
Cheers!
Necro-Regen is not on the table at the moment.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
I've done some testing with small wounds vs. large wounds now.
Overall I am very pleased with the change. This seems to have moved CF to the forefront for situations where you want to clean up a bunch of little wounds on yourself but aren't seriously injured. Devour remains the spell you want to use if you have a single very bad injury, as it will heal those wounds far more efficiently (fewer casts/mana). This is frankly where it should be, because now both spells have a solid niche.
Thank you for this!
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
Overall I am very pleased with the change. This seems to have moved CF to the forefront for situations where you want to clean up a bunch of little wounds on yourself but aren't seriously injured. Devour remains the spell you want to use if you have a single very bad injury, as it will heal those wounds far more efficiently (fewer casts/mana). This is frankly where it should be, because now both spells have a solid niche.
Thank you for this!
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
