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ReplyI think the most fundamental charm in playing a necromancer is the covertness that is naturally built into the class. That is to say, I think Necromancers should have more spells to protect their identity and let them even further weave their web of lies. I propose 2 such spells:
1.) "Illusory mimicry": Allows a necromancer to mimic another guild's ability or spells (without any real effect of course). A moonmage shard would look as real as any other unless a successful check is made against the viewer's warding or Attunement skill.
2.) "Death Mask": The Necromancer, after having killed another player, can cut said player's face off and calling upon the vile necromantic arts can wear that person's face effectively becoming him in appearence. The exact appearence (when typing look <player> will now replace the original look of the necromancer minus the inventory (race, hair color, other features etc.) However, the magic isn't completely accurate and the new name the necromancer will carry is a randomized jumble of the killed player's name. The effect is permanent until the necromancer types <remove face>, after which the necromancer will revert to his original self and permanently lose 10 ranks of all skills he currently knows (a side effect of losing one's identity).
Hmm, on second thought, that second one might be incredibly OP depending upon how excellent an RPer you are. Anyhow, thoughts?
There is no way in hell they are going to let you change your name. Aside from that it's a cool idea, gross, but cool. I could see the face giving the effect of a feature hiding cloak, but not more than that.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
I'm not saying that this kind of thing will never be something that Necromancers could have, but it's currently outside the scope of the level of disguise that GMs have said Necromancers are able to have. Necromancers have ways to hide the fact that you use Arcane mana if played carefully, but overt disguises are beyond the scope of their design. I.e. your abilities are meant to avoid being detected at a cursory or even moderate glance, but your best defence is to take that brief window of opportunity to be elsewhere since you're not going to pass as non-Necro with any sort of concerted attention.
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I do like the idea of grafting someone else's body parts onto yourself or your zombie as a general idea, though...
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>>There is no way in hell they are going to let you change your name.
Eh, as long as GMs are able to track who is doing what while under the disguise (which could be similar to how zombie actions are tracked), and it doesn't disrupt anything involving the targeting system, I don't see why not.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Eh, as long as GMs are able to track who is doing what while under the disguise (which could be similar to how zombie actions are tracked), and it doesn't disrupt anything involving the targeting system, I don't see why not.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
In that vein, I can see Necromancers perhaps taking bodyparts from dead players as trophies or even as fetishes for necromantic spells.
Lyras' Cursed Doll: Calling upon the most profane of all sorcery a Necromancer has the ability to create a macabre doll of a victim of his choosing. Once created he can from any distance set upon the victim any number of curses.
[Theren]
>get dagg
You get a wickedly curved ritual dagger from your sheath.
> cut rega doll
You slowly cut the torso of the Regalios doll.
...
[Crossing]
Regalios suddenly screams in pain!
Regalios is stunned!
>Salaness says, "Holy Truffles Reg! You OK?!"
...
> squeeze rega doll
Carefully aligning both your hands around the Regalios doll's neck you begin to squueze.
...
Regalios falls over gasping for air!
>Regalios says, "oh what is going on?! do u know??"
Salaness cries.
>
...
> throw rega doll
You fling the Regalios doll a few feet from you.
...
>
Regalios is thrown west by some unseen force!
...
put rega doll in fireplace
>
...
>Regalios suddenly bursts into flames!
Regalios screams!
...
chuck
>You chuckle.
grin evil
>You grin evilly.
Lyras' Cursed Doll: Calling upon the most profane of all sorcery a Necromancer has the ability to create a macabre doll of a victim of his choosing. Once created he can from any distance set upon the victim any number of curses.
[Theren]
>get dagg
You get a wickedly curved ritual dagger from your sheath.
> cut rega doll
You slowly cut the torso of the Regalios doll.
...
[Crossing]
Regalios suddenly screams in pain!
Regalios is stunned!
>Salaness says, "Holy Truffles Reg! You OK?!"
...
> squeeze rega doll
Carefully aligning both your hands around the Regalios doll's neck you begin to squueze.
...
Regalios falls over gasping for air!
>Regalios says, "oh what is going on?! do u know??"
Salaness cries.
>
...
> throw rega doll
You fling the Regalios doll a few feet from you.
...
>
Regalios is thrown west by some unseen force!
...
put rega doll in fireplace
>
...
>Regalios suddenly bursts into flames!
Regalios screams!
...
chuck
>You chuckle.
grin evil
>You grin evilly.
In that vein, I can see Necromancers perhaps taking bodyparts from dead players as trophies or even as fetishes for necromantic spells.
Lyras' Cursed Doll: Calling upon the most profane of all sorcery a Necromancer has the ability to create a macabre doll of a victim of his choosing. Once created he can from any distance set upon the victim any number of curses.
[Theren]
>get dagg
You get a wickedly curved ritual dagger from your sheath.
> cut rega doll
You slowly cut the torso of the Regalios doll.
...
[Crossing]
Regalios suddenly screams in pain!
Regalios is stunned!
>Salaness says, "Holy Truffles Reg! You OK?!"
...
> squeeze rega doll
Carefully aligning both your hands around the Regalios doll's neck you begin to squueze.
...
Regalios falls over gasping for air!
>Regalios says, "oh what is going on?! do u know??"
Salaness cries.
>
...
> throw rega doll
You fling the Regalios doll a few feet from you.
...
>
Regalios is thrown west by some unseen force!
...
put rega doll in fireplace
>
...
>Regalios suddenly bursts into flames!
Regalios screams!
...
chuck
>You chuckle.
grin evil
>You grin evilly.
Lyras' Cursed Doll: Calling upon the most profane of all sorcery a Necromancer has the ability to create a macabre doll of a victim of his choosing. Once created he can from any distance set upon the victim any number of curses.
[Theren]
>get dagg
You get a wickedly curved ritual dagger from your sheath.
> cut rega doll
You slowly cut the torso of the Regalios doll.
...
[Crossing]
Regalios suddenly screams in pain!
Regalios is stunned!
>Salaness says, "Holy Truffles Reg! You OK?!"
...
> squeeze rega doll
Carefully aligning both your hands around the Regalios doll's neck you begin to squueze.
...
Regalios falls over gasping for air!
>Regalios says, "oh what is going on?! do u know??"
Salaness cries.
>
...
> throw rega doll
You fling the Regalios doll a few feet from you.
...
>
Regalios is thrown west by some unseen force!
...
put rega doll in fireplace
>
...
>Regalios suddenly bursts into flames!
Regalios screams!
...
chuck
>You chuckle.
grin evil
>You grin evilly.
Without, y'know, actually having access to the engine to look at it myself, I feel extremely confident speculating that changing your name on the fly is not technically feasible. I've absolutely seen engines that can support name disguising but that sort of thing needs to be built into the engine from the ground up and I've never seen any indication that the code propping DR up can do it, or we probably would have seen it before. Probably for many of the same reasons changing your guild is extremely difficult.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
>>There is no way in hell they are going to let you change your name.
>>Eh, as long as GMs are able to track who is doing what while under the disguise (which could be similar to how zombie actions are tracked), and it doesn't disrupt anything involving the targeting system, I don't see why not.
I'll tell you a secret. I play a guild with a half done disguise system. It's been half done for well over a decade. I have read HUNDREDS of posts on disguises over the years I've played DR. I've heard it asked I don't know how many times about hiding names or disguising names, or even using an alias. And seen it shot down just as many times. If a THIEF isn't going to get a decent disguise, I'll bet you all my plats it ain't going to happen for you.
Again, I dig the OP's idea, but unless something has drastically changed, it's totally out of depth.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
>>Eh, as long as GMs are able to track who is doing what while under the disguise (which could be similar to how zombie actions are tracked), and it doesn't disrupt anything involving the targeting system, I don't see why not.
I'll tell you a secret. I play a guild with a half done disguise system. It's been half done for well over a decade. I have read HUNDREDS of posts on disguises over the years I've played DR. I've heard it asked I don't know how many times about hiding names or disguising names, or even using an alias. And seen it shot down just as many times. If a THIEF isn't going to get a decent disguise, I'll bet you all my plats it ain't going to happen for you.
Again, I dig the OP's idea, but unless something has drastically changed, it's totally out of depth.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
Then how about making a doppleganger(duplicate name)? So that you can place the skinned face on an undead construct and create a near identical facsimilie of the player (targetting done by "adv first regalios" "adv second regalios"). I know this seems mechanically difficult to do. But the RP implications are unlimited! The thought of a doppleganger infiltrating the Therengian guard and people not finding out until it's too late for them to stop the Necromancer from murdering key people and taking their faces... very delicious.
Messing with names and making Risen appear to be actual player-characters are both beyond where we're willing to go at the moment.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
>Messing with names and making Risen appear to be actual player-characters are both beyond where we're willing to go at the moment.
http://i.imgur.com/So98E17.png
http://i.imgur.com/So98E17.png
Messing with names is technically possible, but would be a CE nightmare. I won't say never, but in nearly 20 years we haven't really felt up to letting PCs do it.
Making NPCs look like PCs is very challenging technically and, TBH, probably not worth the effort.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Making NPCs look like PCs is very challenging technically and, TBH, probably not worth the effort.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
>> My main hope with regards to Risen is that they can appear diverse enough to throw people off at least a little bit.
A proper disguise system be it NPC, GMNPC, or PC has always been one of those pie in the sky type things since first pushed by Thieves many years ago. Not trying to take wind out of sails but it's incredibly complex and for it to work properly pretty much every script on the back-end that references a player, a creature, a name, etc. may need special handling. I think it's fair to say that adding the Necro guild in its entirety was probably less intense than creating a robust, "fool proof" disguise system.
Not to say it can't be done or won't be done but the level of quality expected in DR makes this one of those holy grail type projects. If someone can pull it off they're the best thing since sliced bread.
/salute
-Ssra
"Following our will and whim..."
A proper disguise system be it NPC, GMNPC, or PC has always been one of those pie in the sky type things since first pushed by Thieves many years ago. Not trying to take wind out of sails but it's incredibly complex and for it to work properly pretty much every script on the back-end that references a player, a creature, a name, etc. may need special handling. I think it's fair to say that adding the Necro guild in its entirety was probably less intense than creating a robust, "fool proof" disguise system.
Not to say it can't be done or won't be done but the level of quality expected in DR makes this one of those holy grail type projects. If someone can pull it off they're the best thing since sliced bread.
/salute
-Ssra
"Following our will and whim..."
I think she was referring to the idea that Risen will not necessarily be immediately recognizable as such in the way that zombies or constructs are. E.g. 'You also see: A weathered farmhand" instead of "You also see: a risen farmhand."
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Right.
So not only would they appear as "a weathered farmhand" (or whatever) if they're well-made enough, but other NPCs called things like "a weathered farmhand" would also exist in the game world to make them not stand out like sore thumbs.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
So not only would they appear as "a weathered farmhand" (or whatever) if they're well-made enough, but other NPCs called things like "a weathered farmhand" would also exist in the game world to make them not stand out like sore thumbs.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
>> So not only would they appear as "a weathered farmhand" (or whatever) if they're well-made enough, but other NPCs called things like "a weathered farmhand" would also exist in the game world to make them not stand out like sore thumbs.
:: nod ::
/salute
-Ssra
"Following our will and whim.."
:: nod ::
/salute
-Ssra
"Following our will and whim.."
>>If a THIEF isn't going to get a decent disguise
I'm well aware of why you are poo-poo'ing the idea.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I'm well aware of why you are poo-poo'ing the idea.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
That was really only snark. The biggest thing is there's already a "disguise" system that's half done. I can't see them making a whole new one for a different guild and leaving the other in the lurch. Well... I CAN see that, but I'd much rather think that's now how it would go.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
<<The biggest thing is there's already a "disguise" system that's half done. I can't see them making a whole new one for a different guild and leaving the other in the lurch.
Let me just 'slip' this Bard in here between the Necromancers and Rang...
<<Well... I CAN see that
Oh. Nevermind then. ;)
Humour aside, I agree that Necromancers will not likely be getting a fleshed out disguise system, but for different reasons. It's not about stepping on toes of another guild, but rather the design decision that Necromancers are meant to be persecuted and aren't meant to be able to fool anyone for long if subject to anything more than passing scrunity.
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Let me just 'slip' this Bard in here between the Necromancers and Rang...
<<Well... I CAN see that
Oh. Nevermind then. ;)
Humour aside, I agree that Necromancers will not likely be getting a fleshed out disguise system, but for different reasons. It's not about stepping on toes of another guild, but rather the design decision that Necromancers are meant to be persecuted and aren't meant to be able to fool anyone for long if subject to anything more than passing scrunity.
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>spell preps
Yeah, I have a necro, I get that. I don't know, I'm just not nearly as up on the lore. In my head I thought there was some advisor who was like supposed to be a WM or something but was a necro. I could be thinking of a Disney plot too.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
Yeah, I have a necro, I get that. I don't know, I'm just not nearly as up on the lore. In my head I thought there was some advisor who was like supposed to be a WM or something but was a necro. I could be thinking of a Disney plot too.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
Honestly Necro's are one of the only guilds that could realistically make a good disguise. But, that requires immense ability which I don't think is currently in the hands of any PC's. Empaths are the other, and only for reasons obvious which includes shifting, and the new ability that necro's are coming out with which is more of a superficial shifting. Necro's can and have wildly changed their appearances, though I don't think that should ever be an actual guild ability.
Zamidren Book, the dude ostensibly in charge of the Philosophers and the structures PCs recognize as "the guild," was a Warrior Mage originally. And there's a long history of Necromancers coming from other guild traditions, or pretending to be in guilds.
We get spell preps, but that's about it. A small selection of titles from other guilds (at least Philosopher, c'mon) and perhaps a small suite of tools to aid disguises and such would have been nice. But again, what's done is done and it's not a direction they wanted to take the guild.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
We get spell preps, but that's about it. A small selection of titles from other guilds (at least Philosopher, c'mon) and perhaps a small suite of tools to aid disguises and such would have been nice. But again, what's done is done and it's not a direction they wanted to take the guild.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
<<Zamidren Book, the dude ostensibly in charge of the Philosophers and the structures PCs recognize as "the guild," was a Warrior Mage originally. And there's a long history of Necromancers coming from other guild traditions, or pretending to be in guilds.
And like many things about NPCs, they are special cases for various purposes, primary of which is story-telling. The PC philosophers of the knife belong to a new upstart group of necromancers that are not culled from other guilds, probably purposefully so. The attunement disguise they have is a result of the traces of their natural attunement proclivity left over from the procedure to make them able to sense 'arcane' mana and isn't representative of an inclination to have come from another guild. If not initiated into the philosophy they conceivably would have been accepted to a relevant guild of that mana type if they had been inclined to apply, of course, but the reverse is not likely to be true.
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And like many things about NPCs, they are special cases for various purposes, primary of which is story-telling. The PC philosophers of the knife belong to a new upstart group of necromancers that are not culled from other guilds, probably purposefully so. The attunement disguise they have is a result of the traces of their natural attunement proclivity left over from the procedure to make them able to sense 'arcane' mana and isn't representative of an inclination to have come from another guild. If not initiated into the philosophy they conceivably would have been accepted to a relevant guild of that mana type if they had been inclined to apply, of course, but the reverse is not likely to be true.
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>>aren't meant to be able to fool anyone for long if subject to anything more than passing scrunity.
I don't think a short term disguise would do this. Think less Thief title tricks and more Scooby Doo villain costumes, only instead of a monster mask you're wearing your local lout's face until it decays enough to be a problem itself.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I don't think a short term disguise would do this. Think less Thief title tricks and more Scooby Doo villain costumes, only instead of a monster mask you're wearing your local lout's face until it decays enough to be a problem itself.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
