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First off: WOO! A type of spell I've been banging a gong about since forever, and it's very much appreciated.
>>You may PREPARE the spell to tell if it is ready, and if not how long it will be until it is ready again.
Could something like this be added to SRE, as well? I know it isn't as binary as CRE, but it would be neat to have.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
This has been added to the wiki in as much as I know about it so far. I will add it to the graphical spell tree once I can confirm the pre-requisite. I'm assuming the only prerequisite is Spiteful Rebirth?
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Oops, forgot the link.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Covetous_Rebirth
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https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Covetous_Rebirth
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I removed the following from the wiki entry because I don't believe it's accurate:
From the way the spell seems to work, it literally just lets you use DEPART GUILD and take your stuff with you. As far as I'm aware, using DEPART GUILD is not blocked by a spirit death, nor does it give DO, nor does it require you to even have SRE.
I also added the prereqs that showed up in Plat when I did DISCERN, but the DISCERN changed later on during the event to not include what's required (along with the flavor text explanation changing, but that's another thing).
For what it's worth, the depart messaging is the same as I recall it being when you would do a normal favorless depart as a Necro (clawed hands grabbing you back into the world after the Starry Host tells you that you're going to be banished into the void).
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
| **When raised by this spell, the target has a chance to keep a memorized spell scroll and will retain some field experience. The chance of retaining and amount of field experience is static. |
| **Using this spell twice, or with Call from Beyond or Spiteful Rebirth will result in becoming forsaken, and a death at the hands of the Immortals. Once a forsaken, you will not suffer a death at the hand of the Immortals other than for Divine Outrage. |
| ** If killed with Harm Evil, Harm Horde or a Cleric's SACRIFICE ability, the ability to use Spiteful Rebirth is blocked with the messaging: ''Your body is wracked with holy malignance, shackling you with this decaying form.'' |
From the way the spell seems to work, it literally just lets you use DEPART GUILD and take your stuff with you. As far as I'm aware, using DEPART GUILD is not blocked by a spirit death, nor does it give DO, nor does it require you to even have SRE.
I also added the prereqs that showed up in Plat when I did DISCERN, but the DISCERN changed later on during the event to not include what's required (along with the flavor text explanation changing, but that's another thing).
For what it's worth, the depart messaging is the same as I recall it being when you would do a normal favorless depart as a Necro (clawed hands grabbing you back into the world after the Starry Host tells you that you're going to be banished into the void).
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
<<I will add it to the graphical spell tree once I can confirm the pre-requisite.
Having troubles uploading the file, so this will be delayed until the issue can be resolved.
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Having troubles uploading the file, so this will be delayed until the issue can be resolved.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
<<Uploads have been broken on epedia for a bit over a week now. :(
Unfortunately, technical issues like this are out of the hands of the wiki admins since it requires access to the wiki back-end on the server so it is something on-site has to do for us. I've let Caraamon know, in case he wasn't already aware, since he has a line of communication with them. Sometimes it takes a while to happen. :(
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
Unfortunately, technical issues like this are out of the hands of the wiki admins since it requires access to the wiki back-end on the server so it is something on-site has to do for us. I've let Caraamon know, in case he wasn't already aware, since he has a line of communication with them. Sometimes it takes a while to happen. :(
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
>>It may not give DO, but I would be very surprised if CRE does not Forsake you upon using it twice just like SRE and CFB do given the nature of what it is.
Based on what it's doing mechanically/ICly, I'm not so sure. The extra-planar force that tosses you back into reality when the Immortals themselves choose not to appears to be doing all the work, just like it would be when you don't have the spell.
CRE is regarded as a "dead pattern" like SRE, but would asking a demon for a favor (which might be what the spell is doing?) cause DO and/or a Forsaken trigger? It's like if you asked me to make a zombie. I'm the one doing the actual bad thing and defying the gods. You're just making a request.
For what it's worth, after using DEPART GUILD I was still at or near my DO floor (and my timer to use again was 3 hours and it doesn't keep ticking down when you're offline).
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Based on what it's doing mechanically/ICly, I'm not so sure. The extra-planar force that tosses you back into reality when the Immortals themselves choose not to appears to be doing all the work, just like it would be when you don't have the spell.
CRE is regarded as a "dead pattern" like SRE, but would asking a demon for a favor (which might be what the spell is doing?) cause DO and/or a Forsaken trigger? It's like if you asked me to make a zombie. I'm the one doing the actual bad thing and defying the gods. You're just making a request.
For what it's worth, after using DEPART GUILD I was still at or near my DO floor (and my timer to use again was 3 hours and it doesn't keep ticking down when you're offline).
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>> Based on what it's doing mechanically/ICly, I'm not so sure. The extra-planar force that tosses you back into reality when the Immortals themselves choose not to appears to be doing all the work, just like it would be when you don't have the spell.
I'm pretty sure making pacts with demons is not kosher in the eyes of the Immortals though, and that's what matters with regards to becoming Forsaken.
I mean, you also need to ask yourself what you believe CFB and (in particular) SRE are really doing.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
I'm pretty sure making pacts with demons is not kosher in the eyes of the Immortals though, and that's what matters with regards to becoming Forsaken.
I mean, you also need to ask yourself what you believe CFB and (in particular) SRE are really doing.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
>>I'm assuming the only prerequisite is Spiteful Rebirth?
Nope. Spell-reqs are just like SRE, except that it doesn't require Necrotic Reconstruction.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Nope. Spell-reqs are just like SRE, except that it doesn't require Necrotic Reconstruction.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
CRE curently doesn't auto-forsake the Necromancer, but that's an oversight I'll probably correct this afternoon.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
>>CRE curently doesn't auto-forsake the Necromancer, but that's an oversight I'll probably correct this afternoon.
Could there be some indication in the messaging that explains why it happens? As it stands, the messaging is the same as any depart a favorless necro makes (tossed to the Void by the Starry Host, recovered by the beast from beyond the stars, etc).
If that kind of depart causes someone to be Forsaken, it sounds like it should happen even if you lack CRE.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Could there be some indication in the messaging that explains why it happens? As it stands, the messaging is the same as any depart a favorless necro makes (tossed to the Void by the Starry Host, recovered by the beast from beyond the stars, etc).
If that kind of depart causes someone to be Forsaken, it sounds like it should happen even if you lack CRE.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
The spell description doesn't lay it out explicitly enough for you?
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Yeah, I confess I'm not seeing the confusion regarding the implications of "this spell makes a demonic pact." I mean, that's more explicit than CFB or SRE really.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
>>The spell description doesn't lay it out explicitly enough for you?
as someone who actually used the meta spell, the actual use of it currently doesn't show anything abnormal or out of the ordinary from normal necro non-SRE/favorless depart messaging.
I'm literally saying "it could use a line indicating something was done to explain the spell triggering at some point," which I feel is pretty reasonable.
Otherwise, in-game-action-wise, there is no indication of this demonic support being any different than the normal demonic support we get when departing without favors, which doesn't cause any kind of spiritual booboos.
Alternatively, have being saved by the demonic force also trigger being forsaken, which id also find cool/appropriate.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
as someone who actually used the meta spell, the actual use of it currently doesn't show anything abnormal or out of the ordinary from normal necro non-SRE/favorless depart messaging.
I'm literally saying "it could use a line indicating something was done to explain the spell triggering at some point," which I feel is pretty reasonable.
Otherwise, in-game-action-wise, there is no indication of this demonic support being any different than the normal demonic support we get when departing without favors, which doesn't cause any kind of spiritual booboos.
Alternatively, have being saved by the demonic force also trigger being forsaken, which id also find cool/appropriate.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>> Otherwise, in-game-action-wise, there is no indication of this demonic support being any different than the normal demonic support we get when departing without favors, which doesn't cause any kind of spiritual booboos.
I mean...it kinda does. Maybe not like, mechanically, but the messaging is pretty explicit about you not being in a good way when you get scooped up.
While I wouldn't mind seeing additional messaging because Fluff Is Cool and it would be neat to have this special pact marked with something extra, I do feel like it's already pretty explicit, and if it doesn't feel like there's a difference between what just DEPART does vs what CRE does, maybe there is an IC reason for why they are very, very similar.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
I mean...it kinda does. Maybe not like, mechanically, but the messaging is pretty explicit about you not being in a good way when you get scooped up.
While I wouldn't mind seeing additional messaging because Fluff Is Cool and it would be neat to have this special pact marked with something extra, I do feel like it's already pretty explicit, and if it doesn't feel like there's a difference between what just DEPART does vs what CRE does, maybe there is an IC reason for why they are very, very similar.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
<<I'm literally saying "it could use a line indicating something was done to explain the spell triggering at some point," which I feel is pretty reasonable.
No, what you did was argue about the spell being fixed by attempting to justify it by nitpicking about a messaging quirk which fits regardless of which method you use.
<<Otherwise, in-game-action-wise, there is no indication of this demonic support being any different than the normal demonic support we get when departing without favors, which doesn't cause any kind of spiritual booboos.
See. Still doing it.
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No, what you did was argue about the spell being fixed by attempting to justify it by nitpicking about a messaging quirk which fits regardless of which method you use.
<<Otherwise, in-game-action-wise, there is no indication of this demonic support being any different than the normal demonic support we get when departing without favors, which doesn't cause any kind of spiritual booboos.
See. Still doing it.
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>>No, what you did was argue about the spell being fixed by attempting to justify it by nitpicking about a messaging quirk which fits regardless of which method you use.
I really don't care if it makes you forsaken or not. I am well past the point of it mattering.
I am saying that it would be nice if the messaging did a better job of explaining the difference between an extra-planar demonic force saving you and not causing any spiritual boo boo and an extra planar force saving you and your stuff and causing a spiritual boo boo. Are you asking the force to do a bit more and that causes it? If so, I'd just like some messaging that indicates it. Or just some clarification about why A but not B.
>>See. Still doing it.
I really have no idea why this is something you really want to debate. "It would be nice to have some messaging that indicates CRE doing something that goes above and beyond normal demonic intervention to enhance the lore of why departing with CRE causes spiritual anger as opposed to "normal" demonic intervention which appears not to do so" seems like a totally reasonable thing to request.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I really don't care if it makes you forsaken or not. I am well past the point of it mattering.
I am saying that it would be nice if the messaging did a better job of explaining the difference between an extra-planar demonic force saving you and not causing any spiritual boo boo and an extra planar force saving you and your stuff and causing a spiritual boo boo. Are you asking the force to do a bit more and that causes it? If so, I'd just like some messaging that indicates it. Or just some clarification about why A but not B.
>>See. Still doing it.
I really have no idea why this is something you really want to debate. "It would be nice to have some messaging that indicates CRE doing something that goes above and beyond normal demonic intervention to enhance the lore of why departing with CRE causes spiritual anger as opposed to "normal" demonic intervention which appears not to do so" seems like a totally reasonable thing to request.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>>I mean...it kinda does. Maybe not like, mechanically, but the messaging is pretty explicit about you not being in a good way when you get scooped up.
Yes, but this is the normal messaging Necros get when they depart favorless and face the Starry Host. And, in that situation, it's not like you're pleading for the demonic force to save you; it just kinda does for whatever unknown reason it has to do so.
I'm really at a loss over how requesting messaging that indicates you doing something involving CRE that triggers a ++ version of a favorless necro guild depart that indicates what the dead pattern does to annoy the gods is an unreasonable thing to request. It's not going to make or break the spell, and I love the spell regardless, and I'm well beyond needing to even care about becoming Forsaken, but given that the guild is pretty lore-heavy, and given that spell itself has a bit of storyline connected to it, I'm pretty surprised asking for some additional messaging to indicate the spell triggering is something to actually argue about.
If the spell went "And you look at the many clawed beast from beyond the stars and exclaim, 'Hey, don't forget my stuff,' and with a mutter he shoves them back onto your new shell" when I tested it out, I wouldn't have questioned if CRE caused any kind of forsaken-risking-ding. As it currently stands, it's no different than the "normal" situation you'd be facing, which as far as I know doesn't cause any kind of forsaken-risking-ding.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Yes, but this is the normal messaging Necros get when they depart favorless and face the Starry Host. And, in that situation, it's not like you're pleading for the demonic force to save you; it just kinda does for whatever unknown reason it has to do so.
I'm really at a loss over how requesting messaging that indicates you doing something involving CRE that triggers a ++ version of a favorless necro guild depart that indicates what the dead pattern does to annoy the gods is an unreasonable thing to request. It's not going to make or break the spell, and I love the spell regardless, and I'm well beyond needing to even care about becoming Forsaken, but given that the guild is pretty lore-heavy, and given that spell itself has a bit of storyline connected to it, I'm pretty surprised asking for some additional messaging to indicate the spell triggering is something to actually argue about.
If the spell went "And you look at the many clawed beast from beyond the stars and exclaim, 'Hey, don't forget my stuff,' and with a mutter he shoves them back onto your new shell" when I tested it out, I wouldn't have questioned if CRE caused any kind of forsaken-risking-ding. As it currently stands, it's no different than the "normal" situation you'd be facing, which as far as I know doesn't cause any kind of forsaken-risking-ding.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Keep it constructive, or find something else to do.
This is the only reminder: conflicts or snark in the Necromancer Folder will result in expedited penalties against you.
Ignore Author is your friend.
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
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<<Having troubles uploading the file, so this will be delayed until the issue can be resolved.
The uploading issues elanthipedia was having have now been resolved, so the graphical spell tree on the wiki has been updated to now include CRE.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
The uploading issues elanthipedia was having have now been resolved, so the graphical spell tree on the wiki has been updated to now include CRE.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
