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Speaking personally, after I got my paladin to 100 I basically quit the game. Keeping and maintaining all the spells and buffs as a paladin felt very much, unpaladin like.
I really would love to see much, maybe all of the current paladin spells be abilities that key off the magic system (or their own systems) and restricting specific 'spells' as 'spells' (requiring chanting, charging, casting). SR, HA and other spells I feel would be better as abilities, underlying a Paladin being a combat guild and able to go from unprepared to 'in the fray' rapidly, instead of spending so many keyboard inputs maintaining spells...
As for the armor skill set, more verbs are desperately needed for armor primaries, or attacks and verbs that can take advantage of being armor primary. Shield Slam is a start (but needs some expansion).
As to armor training--I loath having to wear and maintain multiple armor sets. I honestly would love that, like our dodge/parry/shield % we set, we can do the same with our armor learning--with higher armors being though to of being created in part with lower. Let me explain that.
Plate armor was never just plate armor..it was plate over leather..plate over cloth, plate over chain. Brigandine was worn with heavy padding underneath generally.
So someone with a full set of Heavy Plate might set their 'armor' to 30% light, 40% medium, 30% heavy armor
To ensure there is still some advantage to wearing said armor, apply a penalty to learning armor skills beneath the one you are wearing (adjusted by guild and armor skill placement. You get 100% of the armor you wear wearing, then something like (90/70/50% based off skill set) on the lesser armor types.
So in reality a paladin with 30/40/30 would get 27/36/30 for wearing full heavy armor, and other guilds (same situation) would get less for 'emulating' a multi armor skill setup.
And yeah...smite is nice but terribly boring. Would be nice if we could use different types of smites? More strategy? Tie it into analyze attack sequences? Smite with a shield slam?
I adore the idea of branding enemies with glyphs for various effects as well:)
>Keeping and maintaining all the spells and buffs as a paladin felt very much, unpaladin like.
Everyone might not agree, but I'm of this school of thought. When I participate in sparring matches, I spend literally the entire time buffing and refreshing 350+ mana worth of cambrinth for mana management. Ironically, I spend more time buffing than my magic primary opponents who, by definition, are supposed to use magic as a crutch.
>As for the armor skill set, more verbs are desperately needed for armor primaries, or attacks and verbs that can take advantage of being armor primary. Shield Slam is a start (but needs some expansion).
The expansion of armor and, specifically, shield slam has been on my wish list for a long time. Offhand shield slam was one of my favorite additions of the recent past. I'm even for armor stuff that's not exclusive to paladins if it means the skill set gets more love. I'd love it if armor played more of an active role in combat even if it were through spells/abilities.
Little we do screams paladin other than wearing heavy armor. As much as I love wearing heavy armor, all I can actively do with it is admire its looks. It does look damn pretty, though... Especially some of my fellow paladins' shields.
Everyone might not agree, but I'm of this school of thought. When I participate in sparring matches, I spend literally the entire time buffing and refreshing 350+ mana worth of cambrinth for mana management. Ironically, I spend more time buffing than my magic primary opponents who, by definition, are supposed to use magic as a crutch.
>As for the armor skill set, more verbs are desperately needed for armor primaries, or attacks and verbs that can take advantage of being armor primary. Shield Slam is a start (but needs some expansion).
The expansion of armor and, specifically, shield slam has been on my wish list for a long time. Offhand shield slam was one of my favorite additions of the recent past. I'm even for armor stuff that's not exclusive to paladins if it means the skill set gets more love. I'd love it if armor played more of an active role in combat even if it were through spells/abilities.
Little we do screams paladin other than wearing heavy armor. As much as I love wearing heavy armor, all I can actively do with it is admire its looks. It does look damn pretty, though... Especially some of my fellow paladins' shields.
All magic terts have a lot of buffs, including thieves and barbs. I know because my thief is still active, although I don't have much interest in him anymore (never been a huge fan of thievery outside the museum). Now... Can't use too many buffs (for very long) as an NMU, but that's a topic for another thread in another forum.
What some don't realize is nearly our entire spell suite is focused around augmentation. We have very little in the way of active debilitation (2 spells that share diminishing returns with a passive cyclic and one that's essentially a 6 second debil on 90 second cooldown). Paladin is the most passive guild in the game. The most significant event in paladin PvP combat in terms of what you're doing most of the time is the act of advancing to pole/melee and waiting (in the case of a stealthy opponent), not spell-casting, swinging a weapon, aiming, sneaking or anything else. As much as I love my guild, I hate that part of it. It's not even the most reactive guild, which would make sense for a tanky class.
I have something to add about shield slam. I love shield slam, but it should be noted that it's the least damaging attack in the game even with a massive shield, while also being one of the most balance penalizing. It's incredibly useful when I can't hit something or someone with my weapon because some damage is better than no damage. I'd love to see it become a bigger tool in our attack arsenal.
What some don't realize is nearly our entire spell suite is focused around augmentation. We have very little in the way of active debilitation (2 spells that share diminishing returns with a passive cyclic and one that's essentially a 6 second debil on 90 second cooldown). Paladin is the most passive guild in the game. The most significant event in paladin PvP combat in terms of what you're doing most of the time is the act of advancing to pole/melee and waiting (in the case of a stealthy opponent), not spell-casting, swinging a weapon, aiming, sneaking or anything else. As much as I love my guild, I hate that part of it. It's not even the most reactive guild, which would make sense for a tanky class.
I have something to add about shield slam. I love shield slam, but it should be noted that it's the least damaging attack in the game even with a massive shield, while also being one of the most balance penalizing. It's incredibly useful when I can't hit something or someone with my weapon because some damage is better than no damage. I'd love to see it become a bigger tool in our attack arsenal.
>>We have very little in the way of active debilitation
I can't cite the source, but I recall a while back one of the GMs commenting we're rather weak in debilitation by design. Our augmentation, including gear, is Very hard to match, though the cost is extremely rigid mana management and forgoing offensive magical options to maintain such. All in all, a trade I'm not against really.
Combatatively, we're VERY melee-focused, which is..frustrating sometimes. Add to that having a tertiary primary defence (evasion), and the massive bulk of our offensive options being secondary at best it always feels like we're fighting uphill. I would love to see some loving sent armors way. 3.x making Armor Matter goes a long way, but as you said Warbrolus, we're a very passive/reactive guild.
Samsaren
I can't cite the source, but I recall a while back one of the GMs commenting we're rather weak in debilitation by design. Our augmentation, including gear, is Very hard to match, though the cost is extremely rigid mana management and forgoing offensive magical options to maintain such. All in all, a trade I'm not against really.
Combatatively, we're VERY melee-focused, which is..frustrating sometimes. Add to that having a tertiary primary defence (evasion), and the massive bulk of our offensive options being secondary at best it always feels like we're fighting uphill. I would love to see some loving sent armors way. 3.x making Armor Matter goes a long way, but as you said Warbrolus, we're a very passive/reactive guild.
Samsaren
>>I run 14 capped (100 mana) spells for pvp generally, I feel your pain Warb
Hmm...
By way of comparison, my Warmage only runs 11.
Sure Footing
Swirling Winds
Substratum
Ethereal Shield
Y´ntrel Sechra
Aegis of Granite or Mantle of Flames
Manifest Force
Lay Ward
Veil of Ice
Dragon's Breath
Mental Focus (from the Duskruin branch)
Mazrian
Hmm...
By way of comparison, my Warmage only runs 11.
Sure Footing
Swirling Winds
Substratum
Ethereal Shield
Y´ntrel Sechra
Aegis of Granite or Mantle of Flames
Manifest Force
Lay Ward
Veil of Ice
Dragon's Breath
Mental Focus (from the Duskruin branch)
Mazrian
>I can't cite the source, but I recall a while back one of the GMs commenting we're rather weak in debilitation by design. Our augmentation, including gear, is Very hard to match, though the cost is extremely rigid mana management and forgoing offensive magical options to maintain such. All in all, a trade I'm not against really.
I vaguely remember that, too, but it doesn't account for the fact that few offensive and defensive buffs plus debilitation is mathematically more effective than lots of offensive and/or defensive buffs, or that lots of defense is useless if you can't hit your target. There's also the fact that some spells buff many things. When you consider that, we're not far or at all ahead of other guilds. The equalizer for augmentation, really, is our mostly passive primary skill set.
In any case, I understand what you guys mean, but there are a lot of times I find myself with nothing to do but trying to get to melee. It's no less frustrating than chain stuns used to be before diminishing returns. It makes me feel like I can't do anything while shatter's on "cooldown" and halt/SF is diminished other than try and dispel slower than my opponent can recast his/her buffs, which only means more chasing while they rebuff. For some reason, 3.0 was more fun offensively than 3.1 for Paladins. Maybe it was the loss of a ranged buff but I dunno.
>By way of comparison, my Warmage only runs 11.
You totally forgot AB. On a serious note, buff numbers can be a little misleading. Five of our spells are basically single stat buffs and you can replicate the functionality of another one with a bonding potion. Compare that to, say AEG or Bene or IOTS (although MMs aren't very aug-focused by theme so that's probably a bad example) or many of the ranger buffs that augment a useful skill as well as a stat. As far as skill buffs go, I'd take AEG + SW + SUF over SR + Veteran any day of the week. Hell, Subs + TW would make my paladin more effective than RW even though it doesn't fit the paladin theme. I'd even trade some single stat buffs.
I'm not saying our augmentation sucks because it certainly doesn't unless that's the reason we're limited on debilitation and offense relative to others.
I vaguely remember that, too, but it doesn't account for the fact that few offensive and defensive buffs plus debilitation is mathematically more effective than lots of offensive and/or defensive buffs, or that lots of defense is useless if you can't hit your target. There's also the fact that some spells buff many things. When you consider that, we're not far or at all ahead of other guilds. The equalizer for augmentation, really, is our mostly passive primary skill set.
In any case, I understand what you guys mean, but there are a lot of times I find myself with nothing to do but trying to get to melee. It's no less frustrating than chain stuns used to be before diminishing returns. It makes me feel like I can't do anything while shatter's on "cooldown" and halt/SF is diminished other than try and dispel slower than my opponent can recast his/her buffs, which only means more chasing while they rebuff. For some reason, 3.0 was more fun offensively than 3.1 for Paladins. Maybe it was the loss of a ranged buff but I dunno.
>By way of comparison, my Warmage only runs 11.
You totally forgot AB. On a serious note, buff numbers can be a little misleading. Five of our spells are basically single stat buffs and you can replicate the functionality of another one with a bonding potion. Compare that to, say AEG or Bene or IOTS (although MMs aren't very aug-focused by theme so that's probably a bad example) or many of the ranger buffs that augment a useful skill as well as a stat. As far as skill buffs go, I'd take AEG + SW + SUF over SR + Veteran any day of the week. Hell, Subs + TW would make my paladin more effective than RW even though it doesn't fit the paladin theme. I'd even trade some single stat buffs.
I'm not saying our augmentation sucks because it certainly doesn't unless that's the reason we're limited on debilitation and offense relative to others.
Checking back after a week. Sad to see no responses from GM's on the mana verb heavy/passive nature of the guild. I realize maybe thats an unfair metric but given the lack of anything exciting coming to Paladins in years (decades? I mean I guess you could argue decades since most everything else was part of global revisions) that more resources be devoted toward them. I think they are still the least played guild along side traders and for pretty good reason (incredibly boring). I mean, aside from buffs and the occasional smite verb, not much separates a paladin from a trader other than passive calculations.
I haven't commented because I haven't had anything new to say from the update I gave just a little while back.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
>>I mean, aside from buffs and the occasional smite verb, not much separates a paladin from a trader other than passive calculations.
I mean sure, if you ignore Magic, Protect, Glyphs, Lead, Sacred Insight, War Horses, Holy Weapon, we're basicly the.. I mean, come on. I GET being frustrated, but lets not go completely bananas here.
Samsaren
I mean sure, if you ignore Magic, Protect, Glyphs, Lead, Sacred Insight, War Horses, Holy Weapon, we're basicly the.. I mean, come on. I GET being frustrated, but lets not go completely bananas here.
Samsaren
