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<<You rebuke a zombie mauler with your pavise shield.
Waves of shimmering silver light shine from the shield which crash over the zombie mauler.
The first wave inflicts a massive (12/23) strike to a zombie mauler's left leg.
The staggering force drives it to its knees!
The second wave inflicts an overwhelming (19/23) strike to a zombie mauler's left leg.
The overwhelming force crushes it to ground!
The final wave inflicts a very heavy (9/23) hit to a zombie mauler's chest.
Roundtime: 1 sec.>>
Curious if the mauler was injured before this? I know you wernt trying to show its potency but curious how much damage it does vs something uninjured and how much mana your sending into it.
A few more random tests, fully targeted, min preps, fresh creatures. All tests were unbuffed.
Summary: Knock down nearly every cast. Knocked to the knees otherwise. Damage still feels light, but I'm liking the spell now that I'm casting at something other than a gryphon.
clouded arzumos
You rebuke a clouded arzumos with your steel shield.
Waves of dull golden light emit from the shield which crash over the clouded arzumos.
The first wave inflicts a glancing strike to a clouded arzumos's neck.
The staggering force drives it to its knees!
The second wave inflicts a glancing strike to a clouded arzumos's left leg.
The overwhelming force crushes it to ground!
The final wave inflicts a glancing strike to a clouded arzumos's abdomen.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Dragon Priest - no tactics
You rebuke a robed Dragon priest with your steel shield.
Waves of dull golden light emit from the shield which crash over the Dragon priest.
The first wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's abdomen.
The staggering force drives it to its knees!
The final wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's right arm.
The overwhelming force crushes it to ground!
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Dragon Priest - after weave and circle tactics
You rebuke a robed Dragon priest with your steel shield.
Waves of dull golden light emit from the shield which crash over the Dragon priest.
The first wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's left leg.
The staggering force drives it to its knees!
The second wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's left leg.
The overwhelming force crushes it to ground!
The final wave inflicts a good hit to a robed Dragon priest's left leg.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Second cast, poor position, didn't wait for
You rebuke a robed Dragon priest with your steel shield.
Waves of dull golden light emit from the shield which crash over the Dragon priest.
The first wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's back.
The staggering force drives it to its knees!
The final wave passes harmlessly over a robed Dragon priest.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
New dragon priest, circle, weave first + 30 mana camb
You rebuke a robed Dragon priest with your steel shield.
Your cambrinth armband emits a loud snap as it discharges all its power to aid your spell.
Waves of dull golden light emit from the shield which crash over the Dragon priest.
The first wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's left eye.
The staggering force drives it to its knees!
The second wave inflicts a good hit to a robed Dragon priest's right arm.
The overwhelming force crushes it to ground!
The third wave passes harmlessly over a robed Dragon priest.
The final wave inflicts a good strike to a robed Dragon priest's right arm.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Fresh Dragonpriestess - stun foe, weave, circle, rebuke + 20 in a camb
You rebuke a robed Dragon priestess with your steel shield.
Your cambrinth armband emits a loud snap as it discharges all its power to aid your spell.
Waves of dull golden light emit from the shield which crash over the Dragon priestess.
The first wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priestess's left arm.
The staggering force drives it to its knees!
The final wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priestess's chest.
The overwhelming force crushes it to ground!
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Peccary
You rebuke a small peccary with your steel shield.
Waves of dull golden light emit from the shield which crash over the small peccary.
The first wave inflicts a glancing strike to a small peccary's chest.
The staggering force drives it to its knees!
The second wave inflicts a glancing strike to a small peccary's neck.
The overwhelming force crushes it to ground!
The final wave inflicts a light hit to a small peccary's left hindleg.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
And just for fun, a dragon priest with 30 mana from a camb put into the spell
** You rebuke a robed Dragon priest with your steel shield.
Your cambrinth armband emits a loud snap as it discharges all its power to aid your spell.
Waves of dull golden light emit from the shield which crash over the Dragon priest.
The first wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's right leg.
The staggering force drives it to its knees!
The second wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's abdomen.
The overwhelming force crushes it to ground!
The third wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's chest.
The final wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's right arm.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Stats:
Holy Magic: 315 Targeted Magic: 254
Strength : 45 Reflex : 40
Agility : 30 Charisma : 10
Discipline : 40 Wisdom : 57
Intelligence : 59 Stamina : 40
Summary: Knock down nearly every cast. Knocked to the knees otherwise. Damage still feels light, but I'm liking the spell now that I'm casting at something other than a gryphon.
clouded arzumos
You rebuke a clouded arzumos with your steel shield.
Waves of dull golden light emit from the shield which crash over the clouded arzumos.
The first wave inflicts a glancing strike to a clouded arzumos's neck.
The staggering force drives it to its knees!
The second wave inflicts a glancing strike to a clouded arzumos's left leg.
The overwhelming force crushes it to ground!
The final wave inflicts a glancing strike to a clouded arzumos's abdomen.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Dragon Priest - no tactics
You rebuke a robed Dragon priest with your steel shield.
Waves of dull golden light emit from the shield which crash over the Dragon priest.
The first wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's abdomen.
The staggering force drives it to its knees!
The final wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's right arm.
The overwhelming force crushes it to ground!
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Dragon Priest - after weave and circle tactics
You rebuke a robed Dragon priest with your steel shield.
Waves of dull golden light emit from the shield which crash over the Dragon priest.
The first wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's left leg.
The staggering force drives it to its knees!
The second wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's left leg.
The overwhelming force crushes it to ground!
The final wave inflicts a good hit to a robed Dragon priest's left leg.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Second cast, poor position, didn't wait for
You rebuke a robed Dragon priest with your steel shield.
Waves of dull golden light emit from the shield which crash over the Dragon priest.
The first wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's back.
The staggering force drives it to its knees!
The final wave passes harmlessly over a robed Dragon priest.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
New dragon priest, circle, weave first + 30 mana camb
You rebuke a robed Dragon priest with your steel shield.
Your cambrinth armband emits a loud snap as it discharges all its power to aid your spell.
Waves of dull golden light emit from the shield which crash over the Dragon priest.
The first wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's left eye.
The staggering force drives it to its knees!
The second wave inflicts a good hit to a robed Dragon priest's right arm.
The overwhelming force crushes it to ground!
The third wave passes harmlessly over a robed Dragon priest.
The final wave inflicts a good strike to a robed Dragon priest's right arm.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Fresh Dragonpriestess - stun foe, weave, circle, rebuke + 20 in a camb
You rebuke a robed Dragon priestess with your steel shield.
Your cambrinth armband emits a loud snap as it discharges all its power to aid your spell.
Waves of dull golden light emit from the shield which crash over the Dragon priestess.
The first wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priestess's left arm.
The staggering force drives it to its knees!
The final wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priestess's chest.
The overwhelming force crushes it to ground!
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Peccary
You rebuke a small peccary with your steel shield.
Waves of dull golden light emit from the shield which crash over the small peccary.
The first wave inflicts a glancing strike to a small peccary's chest.
The staggering force drives it to its knees!
The second wave inflicts a glancing strike to a small peccary's neck.
The overwhelming force crushes it to ground!
The final wave inflicts a light hit to a small peccary's left hindleg.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
And just for fun, a dragon priest with 30 mana from a camb put into the spell
** You rebuke a robed Dragon priest with your steel shield.
Your cambrinth armband emits a loud snap as it discharges all its power to aid your spell.
Waves of dull golden light emit from the shield which crash over the Dragon priest.
The first wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's right leg.
The staggering force drives it to its knees!
The second wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's abdomen.
The overwhelming force crushes it to ground!
The third wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's chest.
The final wave inflicts a glancing strike to a robed Dragon priest's right arm.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Stats:
Holy Magic: 315 Targeted Magic: 254
Strength : 45 Reflex : 40
Agility : 30 Charisma : 10
Discipline : 40 Wisdom : 57
Intelligence : 59 Stamina : 40
>Curious if the mauler was injured before this? I know you wernt trying to show its potency but curious how much damage it does vs something uninjured and how much mana your sending into it.
Definitely injured. My data is pretty much in line with your tests. Just wanted to show that the knockdown + damage is really fun when you cast in the middle of a combat sequence.
Definitely injured. My data is pretty much in line with your tests. Just wanted to show that the knockdown + damage is really fun when you cast in the middle of a combat sequence.
FF is a basic tm elemental multi hit
RE is an advanced tm physical spell that has a knock down, costs an extra slot.
The damage of the spells should be semi comparable, but my suspision is that all physical multi hits (STS and Rebuke) are generally very poor performers. Warmies dont probably mind this cause they have other VERY good options for multi strikes. Paladins however dont however, which is why I want to make a more direct comparison between FF and it, so its the same character with the same skills seeing how the system works between physical damage and elemental.
I don't think I would have a minority opinion that if the damage isnt changed in the spell somehow, that the spell becomes a curiosity more than anything else. I would just as much throw a stun out from smite in the middle of a combat routine for far less mana to set up for a smite.
RE is an advanced tm physical spell that has a knock down, costs an extra slot.
The damage of the spells should be semi comparable, but my suspision is that all physical multi hits (STS and Rebuke) are generally very poor performers. Warmies dont probably mind this cause they have other VERY good options for multi strikes. Paladins however dont however, which is why I want to make a more direct comparison between FF and it, so its the same character with the same skills seeing how the system works between physical damage and elemental.
I don't think I would have a minority opinion that if the damage isnt changed in the spell somehow, that the spell becomes a curiosity more than anything else. I would just as much throw a stun out from smite in the middle of a combat routine for far less mana to set up for a smite.
Swap it to fire and impact? Or whatever admixture 'holy' damage typically consists of (Fire primarily but I believe cold and electric are mixed in), plus physical.
While I see where the spell concept is going, I feel paladins have enough physical damage spells as is. They could most certainly use something to beef up weaknesses, at least a little. And Rebuke just seems to reinforce them.
Pants.
While I see where the spell concept is going, I feel paladins have enough physical damage spells as is. They could most certainly use something to beef up weaknesses, at least a little. And Rebuke just seems to reinforce them.
Pants.
>>Would you be open to making it deal elemental damage in lieu of physical damage? Paladins already have two physical damage dealing TM spells.
It actually deals a touch of elemental as is, but no, thematically it's going to stay as it is.
I will say two things on that point however. The first is that I finally figured out what was going on with the damage (It's rather complex and well hidden in the code) and it has nothing to do with the type of damage it does. It has to do with how many types. This same issue is causing all the multishot spells that only do two types of damage (Stampede, Rebuke, Smite Horde and Stone Strike) to drastically under perform. I'm working with the combat folks to find a resolution since it's well outside my comfort zone and authority to fix on my own. Also don't ever, ever, ever use TKT as a baseline spell to compare to. It has it's own issue I've turned up that we're going to need to find a solution to - but that's an entirely different topic.
The second is that I do have one more Paladin TM spell in proposals, and if approved it will be largely elemental damage.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
It actually deals a touch of elemental as is, but no, thematically it's going to stay as it is.
I will say two things on that point however. The first is that I finally figured out what was going on with the damage (It's rather complex and well hidden in the code) and it has nothing to do with the type of damage it does. It has to do with how many types. This same issue is causing all the multishot spells that only do two types of damage (Stampede, Rebuke, Smite Horde and Stone Strike) to drastically under perform. I'm working with the combat folks to find a resolution since it's well outside my comfort zone and authority to fix on my own. Also don't ever, ever, ever use TKT as a baseline spell to compare to. It has it's own issue I've turned up that we're going to need to find a solution to - but that's an entirely different topic.
The second is that I do have one more Paladin TM spell in proposals, and if approved it will be largely elemental damage.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
>Stone Strike) to drastically under perform
I was just considering posting my (very brief) test of Stone Strike from this evening. Capped, versus an inferior opponent (both unbuffed my TM 325 vs Evasion 322, Shield 265)... I did 15% vitality damage, and I think it was five good strikes. Good to hear this is not intended.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
I was just considering posting my (very brief) test of Stone Strike from this evening. Capped, versus an inferior opponent (both unbuffed my TM 325 vs Evasion 322, Shield 265)... I did 15% vitality damage, and I think it was five good strikes. Good to hear this is not intended.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
>>This new spell has my interests peaked though. Can we know more about it before it gets approved, or is that a no no?
It would be in the sacrifice spellbook. That's all I'll say.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
It would be in the sacrifice spellbook. That's all I'll say.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
>>This same issue is causing all the multishot spells that only do two types of damage
Any chance of adding a token amount of holy damage? Nothing noticable, but one that would bring us pass the 2 type bug? (or is it the same for 3 types?)
Either way, thanks for digging into this. Great news across the board.
Any chance of adding a token amount of holy damage? Nothing noticable, but one that would bring us pass the 2 type bug? (or is it the same for 3 types?)
Either way, thanks for digging into this. Great news across the board.
>Any chance of adding a token amount of holy damage? Nothing noticable, but one that would bring us pass the 2 type bug? (or is it the same for 3 types?)
There isn't a 'holy' damage type. DR only has the three elemental types; fire, cold, electric (I think that's the third), and the physical damage types; puncture, slice, impact. Everything's a mixture thereof.
Or would FoI qualify as a damage type? I certainly wouldn't think so.
Pants.
There isn't a 'holy' damage type. DR only has the three elemental types; fire, cold, electric (I think that's the third), and the physical damage types; puncture, slice, impact. Everything's a mixture thereof.
Or would FoI qualify as a damage type? I certainly wouldn't think so.
Pants.
>>Also don't ever, ever, ever use TKT as a baseline spell to compare to. It has it's own issue I've turned up that we're going to need to find a solution to - but that's an entirely different topic.
It seems certain multi-shot spells are behaving differently than others with regard to how they apply vitality damage. Such as I've noticed Telekinetic Throw and Fire Rain both aren't capping the amount of vitality they drain, versus multi shot spells such as Rebuke and Stone Strike.
I'm actually curious what other multi-shot spells/abilities are bypassing the multi-shot vitality cap.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
It seems certain multi-shot spells are behaving differently than others with regard to how they apply vitality damage. Such as I've noticed Telekinetic Throw and Fire Rain both aren't capping the amount of vitality they drain, versus multi shot spells such as Rebuke and Stone Strike.
I'm actually curious what other multi-shot spells/abilities are bypassing the multi-shot vitality cap.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
>a physical damaging spell, but I dont think it suffers from this bug
I thought the bug was only if it did exactly two types of damage. Is this the case for RoS? Epedia lists puncture, slice, and impact.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
I thought the bug was only if it did exactly two types of damage. Is this the case for RoS? Epedia lists puncture, slice, and impact.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
Hrmmmmm
Solution: add a third damage type?:P That is a bandaid...
Curious do multiple damage TYPES get hurt more by mitigation. As I understand mitigation works in two parts
1) protection
2) absorption
Protection removes a flat amount of damage up front, absorption reduces a % amount of damage after protection. If something deals 3 types of damage does it get effected by 3 types of protection at 100% effectiveness, or at 33% effectiveness?
Solution: add a third damage type?:P That is a bandaid...
Curious do multiple damage TYPES get hurt more by mitigation. As I understand mitigation works in two parts
1) protection
2) absorption
Protection removes a flat amount of damage up front, absorption reduces a % amount of damage after protection. If something deals 3 types of damage does it get effected by 3 types of protection at 100% effectiveness, or at 33% effectiveness?
>>If something deals 3 types of damage does it get effected by 3 types of protection at 100% effectiveness, or at 33% effectiveness?
My understanding is that one of the things Kodius wanted for combat 3.0 was to discourage people from wanting to use weapons that focused explicitly in one damage type (thing those old slice bastard swords from 2.0).
I'd be surprised if magic went in the exact opposite direction.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
My understanding is that one of the things Kodius wanted for combat 3.0 was to discourage people from wanting to use weapons that focused explicitly in one damage type (thing those old slice bastard swords from 2.0).
I'd be surprised if magic went in the exact opposite direction.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
No, adding a 3rd damage type would take about 5 seconds.
Fixing the bug will take longer then that - the actual coding isn't that big, but making sure what's being done is balanced and so forth, that's what the hold up is.
Three types of damage does face more damage reduction, but basically it's capping issue - each type of damage is capped at how much it can contribute, and since multishot spells are capped fairly low on a per hit basis the end result is spells that do 3 types of damage can do roughly 50% more damage then spells that do 2. It's even worse if the two damage types aren't contributing equally (as is the case with Rebuke), since the secondary damage might not make it to the cap, but the primary is suffering even more under the cap.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Fixing the bug will take longer then that - the actual coding isn't that big, but making sure what's being done is balanced and so forth, that's what the hold up is.
Three types of damage does face more damage reduction, but basically it's capping issue - each type of damage is capped at how much it can contribute, and since multishot spells are capped fairly low on a per hit basis the end result is spells that do 3 types of damage can do roughly 50% more damage then spells that do 2. It's even worse if the two damage types aren't contributing equally (as is the case with Rebuke), since the secondary damage might not make it to the cap, but the primary is suffering even more under the cap.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
In leui of building a spell that upon dealing 3 damage types can cap out about 50% more damage than a spell that does 2, why not just reduce the amount of damage dealt by all three damage types?
I really like the idea of allowing spell and weapon flexibility to strategically determine damage types, and having the option of doing slightly less damage but spreading that damage across multiple types sounds like a good general option to have.
I really like the idea of allowing spell and weapon flexibility to strategically determine damage types, and having the option of doing slightly less damage but spreading that damage across multiple types sounds like a good general option to have.
That's the general idea (adjusting the caps), it's figuring out where we want them to sit at and if we want to change anything else with multishot spells while we're under the hood.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
