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>Guild bonus such as you describe are going away as they get around to them. As was said they are looking more for guild abilites and this fits. And swinging a sword is a basic manuver. Its knowing when to use it and i see no problem with it being taught to a paladin and basing it off his shield ranks, brawling whatever.
Then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't see how swinging a sword is anymore basic than swinging a shield. If they take away guild bonuses as I describe them ("a bonus" isn't much of a description really, I left that open to interpret for a reason), then your bonus can be that you learn shield faster than any other guild.
The paladin guild is already well defined enough, making shield bash paladin-only makes little sense in terms of realism and adds very little to the guild concept (defensive masters unless I'm mistaken).
>PS if i was attacking you personally trust me there would be no doubt
I'm not having any doubts about what it was.
Nester
>>And swinging a sword is a basic manuver. Its knowing when to use it and i see no problem with it being taught to a paladin and basing it off his shield ranks, brawling whatever.
How is swinging a sword and knowing how to use it different than swinging a shield and knowing when to use it?
-Frogspawn
How is swinging a sword and knowing how to use it different than swinging a shield and knowing when to use it?
-Frogspawn
>The paladin guild is already well defined enough, making shield bash paladin-only makes little sense in terms of realism and adds very little to the guild concept (defensive masters unless I'm mistaken).
I'm with ya, here, Nester. But as long as there are several other skills that are guild-only, we might as well get a slice of the pie.
In my opinion Shield Bash should be for everyone. But so should so many other things. And as long as guilds have a right to say, "hey, that's mine", we might as well jump on the bandwagon and get a little for ourselves.
I'd also like to mention that fact that other than our spells and lead, paladins have NO tactical advantage over an opponent in combat. Any correctly trained mage, thief, cleric or bard could easily stand toe to toe with a paladin of equal circle in a strictly melee(no spells) fight. Does that seem right to you?
In my opinion, nobody short of a berzerking barbarian should be able to stand toe to toe with a paladin. But that is a pipe dream because we have absolutely no tactical advantages in melee combat.
Shield bash could very well be our first tactical advantage.
Litharius
I'm with ya, here, Nester. But as long as there are several other skills that are guild-only, we might as well get a slice of the pie.
In my opinion Shield Bash should be for everyone. But so should so many other things. And as long as guilds have a right to say, "hey, that's mine", we might as well jump on the bandwagon and get a little for ourselves.
I'd also like to mention that fact that other than our spells and lead, paladins have NO tactical advantage over an opponent in combat. Any correctly trained mage, thief, cleric or bard could easily stand toe to toe with a paladin of equal circle in a strictly melee(no spells) fight. Does that seem right to you?
In my opinion, nobody short of a berzerking barbarian should be able to stand toe to toe with a paladin. But that is a pipe dream because we have absolutely no tactical advantages in melee combat.
Shield bash could very well be our first tactical advantage.
Litharius
>>Cause in this game Knowing how to use a shield means knowing how to block things the paladin bonus as you will would be us slaping you up side the head with it. And whats the point of joining a guild if we can do everything each other can do?
No one's asking to do everything everyone else can do (that I've seen).
But I don't see how you can say that, unless I have crippling arthritis of the shoulder, I wouldn't be able to hit something with a shield.
By all means, Paladins should be best at it, but why the need to exclude everyone else?
-Frogspawn
No one's asking to do everything everyone else can do (that I've seen).
But I don't see how you can say that, unless I have crippling arthritis of the shoulder, I wouldn't be able to hit something with a shield.
By all means, Paladins should be best at it, but why the need to exclude everyone else?
-Frogspawn
>>as long as there are several other skills that are guild-only, we might as well get a slice of the pie. In my opinion Shield Bash should be for everyone. But so should so many other things. And as long as guilds have a right to say, "hey, that's mine", we might as well jump on the bandwagon and get a little for ourselves.
Why not just argue to get those other abilities opened to all?
-Stohmp-
>>By all means, Paladins should be best at it, but why the need to exclude everyone else?
Why not just argue to get those other abilities opened to all?
-Stohmp-
>>By all means, Paladins should be best at it, but why the need to exclude everyone else?
>>Paladins are one of the 2 guilds that is primarily front line combat. We need abilities to distinguish ourselves as such, cuz we aren't really good at it...
But how would not allowing others to utilize a basic shield bash make you better at front line combat? I agree that Paladins should be better with shield bash; even much better if needs be. But why would no one outside the Paladin guild be able to figure out how to smack someone or something with their shield? It makes no sense, kind of like only Barbarians being able to choke...
-Stohmp-
But how would not allowing others to utilize a basic shield bash make you better at front line combat? I agree that Paladins should be better with shield bash; even much better if needs be. But why would no one outside the Paladin guild be able to figure out how to smack someone or something with their shield? It makes no sense, kind of like only Barbarians being able to choke...
-Stohmp-
For the exact same reason that barbarians are the only ones who can choke. Might not make sense, but if they're gonna be that way, might as well do the same for paladins.
Make choke available for all guilds if shield bash is available for all guilds. But as long as choke is exclusive, so should shield bash be.
Make choke available for all guilds if shield bash is available for all guilds. But as long as choke is exclusive, so should shield bash be.
>I'm with ya, here, Nester. But as long as there are several other skills that are guild-only, we might as well get a slice of the pie.
Glyphs, lead, spells, holy weapon quest, and whatever you get with horses are your guild skills, no other guild has those and they shouldn't. They're part of what makes you a paladin. I don't think shield bash is even on the level of these other abilities.
>I'd also like to mention that fact that other than our spells and lead, paladins have NO tactical advantage over an opponent in combat. Any correctly trained mage, thief, cleric or bard could easily stand toe to toe with a paladin of equal circle in a strictly melee(no spells) fight. Does that seem right to you?
A rank is a rank. All other things equal, no character should be more effective with a rank than any other. This is how it is or will be.
>In my opinion, nobody short of a berzerking barbarian should be able to stand toe to toe with a paladin. But that is a pipe dream because we have absolutely no tactical advantages in melee combat.
I can't really respond to this statement, it leaves too much unsaid. I believe that paladins are the defensive masters, with other bonuses besides. Every guild has their weaknesses though, and not all guilds fight the same.
Glyphs, lead, spells, holy weapon quest, and whatever you get with horses are your guild skills, no other guild has those and they shouldn't. They're part of what makes you a paladin. I don't think shield bash is even on the level of these other abilities.
>I'd also like to mention that fact that other than our spells and lead, paladins have NO tactical advantage over an opponent in combat. Any correctly trained mage, thief, cleric or bard could easily stand toe to toe with a paladin of equal circle in a strictly melee(no spells) fight. Does that seem right to you?
A rank is a rank. All other things equal, no character should be more effective with a rank than any other. This is how it is or will be.
>In my opinion, nobody short of a berzerking barbarian should be able to stand toe to toe with a paladin. But that is a pipe dream because we have absolutely no tactical advantages in melee combat.
I can't really respond to this statement, it leaves too much unsaid. I believe that paladins are the defensive masters, with other bonuses besides. Every guild has their weaknesses though, and not all guilds fight the same.
>>Paladins are one of the 2 guilds that is primarily front line combat. We need abilities to distinguish ourselves as such, cuz we aren't really good at it...
I would say lead, glyphs and spells would cover "abilities to distinguish yourselves as such". If this isn't obvious already, I can't say much else.
>For the exact same reason that barbarians are the only ones who can choke. Might not make sense, but if they're gonna be that way, might as well do the same for paladins
Two wrongs don't make a right. Change the trend, don't just go with it. I've already mentioned that I think choke should be useable by everyone, I'm not just singling out shield bash.
I'm going to try to stop posting as a large portion of you feel that shield bash is the ONLY THING that will make your guild unique, and no logic, evidence, or argument I can make will change that. I'm sorry you feel your guild is so poorly defined with all the abilities you have.
Nester
I would say lead, glyphs and spells would cover "abilities to distinguish yourselves as such". If this isn't obvious already, I can't say much else.
>For the exact same reason that barbarians are the only ones who can choke. Might not make sense, but if they're gonna be that way, might as well do the same for paladins
Two wrongs don't make a right. Change the trend, don't just go with it. I've already mentioned that I think choke should be useable by everyone, I'm not just singling out shield bash.
I'm going to try to stop posting as a large portion of you feel that shield bash is the ONLY THING that will make your guild unique, and no logic, evidence, or argument I can make will change that. I'm sorry you feel your guild is so poorly defined with all the abilities you have.
Nester
How about, as a sort of compromise, everyone is allowed to shield bash, but only paladins can do it with larger shields (oval and larger) and only paladins are able to maintain balance while doing it. Everyone else will take half of the maximum balance drop when trying to whack something with the shield in their left hand. With shields of oval size and larger, they will always take the maximum balance drop when trying to shield bash.
As for how it is harder to bash something with a shield than swing a sword, try straping a large slab of metal to your off hand and try to hit something with any reasonable amount of force with it, then try to bring it to a smooth stop, leaving yourself in a ready position. Then take a stick or something and swing it with your right hand. Now, alternate the two. Which of the three is the easiest?
Player of Linras Cauldrath
As for how it is harder to bash something with a shield than swing a sword, try straping a large slab of metal to your off hand and try to hit something with any reasonable amount of force with it, then try to bring it to a smooth stop, leaving yourself in a ready position. Then take a stick or something and swing it with your right hand. Now, alternate the two. Which of the three is the easiest?
Player of Linras Cauldrath
> I don't see how comparing magic with whacking something with a shield really proves anything, but I'll clear up some misconceptions.
Ok, was a bad example.
> Not the same thing what-so-ever. Shield bash and choke are not actual skills. They are abilities. Bonuses to skills are total bull
I give, I give, was a bad example.
The point I was trying to make was supporting your argument, I think shield bash should be open to everyone, and paladin bonused, as I think choke should be open to everyone, and barb bonused.
There are plenty of examples where abilities, some are skills, are open to everyone, but guild bonused - hiding, fletching, tanning, singing, lockpicking, and disarm for starters. It makes no sense to me how one person can do something (shield bash or choke like things), and others woudln't ever try to figure it out, and just not be as good at it.
Perhaps an opportunity exists for an INSTRUCT type system where barbs instruct choke to others, similar to horse instruction, and paladins could instruct sheild bash. I dunno, just an idea. There's IG precedence for this already with bards and theives, and the horse instuct system.
I guess it comes down to guild guru direction, and a desire by simu to keep guilds clearly a little different.
-Slaris
Ok, was a bad example.
> Not the same thing what-so-ever. Shield bash and choke are not actual skills. They are abilities. Bonuses to skills are total bull
I give, I give, was a bad example.
The point I was trying to make was supporting your argument, I think shield bash should be open to everyone, and paladin bonused, as I think choke should be open to everyone, and barb bonused.
There are plenty of examples where abilities, some are skills, are open to everyone, but guild bonused - hiding, fletching, tanning, singing, lockpicking, and disarm for starters. It makes no sense to me how one person can do something (shield bash or choke like things), and others woudln't ever try to figure it out, and just not be as good at it.
Perhaps an opportunity exists for an INSTRUCT type system where barbs instruct choke to others, similar to horse instruction, and paladins could instruct sheild bash. I dunno, just an idea. There's IG precedence for this already with bards and theives, and the horse instuct system.
I guess it comes down to guild guru direction, and a desire by simu to keep guilds clearly a little different.
-Slaris
>A rank is a rank. All other things equal, no character should be more effective with a rank than any other. This is how it is or will be.
I disagree. Let me give you an example. Let's take a disarm manuever. If I know a disarm manuever that someone exactly like me doesn't know, should they be an equal fight for me? I mean, I can disarm them. They don't know that I'm going to disarm them, they don't know how to defend against it.
They might get lucky and my disarm my not work. But I still have a tactical advantage over them that isn't a part of the skill system. That example can be used with any number of things, from magic to roars, dances, khris, and stealth.
It is my opinion that paladins are the closest guild resembling a military. In my opinion we should have militaristic tactics. Shield bash is an excellent idea for one of these tactics.
As for being Master's of Defense, I believe someone stated that that is just a player given title, and actually holds little truth considering barbarians, rangers and thieves can all be equally or more effective defensively than a paladin.
Litharius
I disagree. Let me give you an example. Let's take a disarm manuever. If I know a disarm manuever that someone exactly like me doesn't know, should they be an equal fight for me? I mean, I can disarm them. They don't know that I'm going to disarm them, they don't know how to defend against it.
They might get lucky and my disarm my not work. But I still have a tactical advantage over them that isn't a part of the skill system. That example can be used with any number of things, from magic to roars, dances, khris, and stealth.
It is my opinion that paladins are the closest guild resembling a military. In my opinion we should have militaristic tactics. Shield bash is an excellent idea for one of these tactics.
As for being Master's of Defense, I believe someone stated that that is just a player given title, and actually holds little truth considering barbarians, rangers and thieves can all be equally or more effective defensively than a paladin.
Litharius
We ask for shield bash and we are the ones that actually care about useing a shield in combat and are the ones armor prime.
Everyone else that is here argueing that shield bash should be for all guilds most likely didnt even ever think about it till they came here and read about it. Also I would guess that the non-paladins on this board dont even have their shield in the top 10 highest skills,and one of you said that you probably wouldnt even use it if you had it.
Most paladins that use shield have it in the top 3 of skills. What doesnt make sense is someone wanting a skill another guild thought up that they dont train and/or will never train or use if they had it.
It makes more sense that it be paladin only because....
We are armor prime, shield is armor.
We ask for it.
More paladins use shield than any other guild.
Most paladins that use shield have it in the top 3 highest skills.
We would use it everyday if we had it.
We are frontline combat guild.
We LEAD groups in combat.
We are armor prime and we ask for it.
Gad
Everyone else that is here argueing that shield bash should be for all guilds most likely didnt even ever think about it till they came here and read about it. Also I would guess that the non-paladins on this board dont even have their shield in the top 10 highest skills,and one of you said that you probably wouldnt even use it if you had it.
Most paladins that use shield have it in the top 3 of skills. What doesnt make sense is someone wanting a skill another guild thought up that they dont train and/or will never train or use if they had it.
It makes more sense that it be paladin only because....
We are armor prime, shield is armor.
We ask for it.
More paladins use shield than any other guild.
Most paladins that use shield have it in the top 3 highest skills.
We would use it everyday if we had it.
We are frontline combat guild.
We LEAD groups in combat.
We are armor prime and we ask for it.
Gad
Hey, sorry for starting the topic, didn't think it would bring you all so much angst. <ducks> But on the other hand, think I'll state my view, as a barb. Sure I want shield bash, sounds like something I'd use. Should I have it? Well, probably not. Let me throw the choke example in there. I can choke stuff, yep. However, I can also break the neck of said target. Hey, I think the rest of ya should be able to choke, doesn't seem like a complicated thing. But neck-breaking though, should always remain barb only. Likewise for shield bash. I should be able to shield bash, doesn't seem like a hard thing, but doing a <insert fancy shield maneuver here> should be a paladin only thing. Makes sense to me. Which brings about a whole new dilemma, since I don't think >they< will ever release choke for everyone else. So, since fair is fair, only paladins should get shield bash. Besides, they're some of the only folks that use it anyway, (except for TDP hungry barbs) Yep, I said it, paladin only. Unless everyone gets choke, then give it to me.
Carnock
Carnock
>> Everyone else that is here argueing that shield bash should be for all guilds most likely didnt even ever think about it till they came here and read about it.
I've wanted shield bash since the AOL days. What can I say? I like to bash things. Shield bash is such an old idea that there's no way in hell you can say that with any accuracy.
>>Also I would guess that the non-paladins on this board dont even have their shield in the top 10 highest skills
Don't assume, it makes an ass out of u and me.
>>and one of you said that you probably wouldnt even use it if you had it. Most paladins that use shield have it in the top 3 of skills. What doesnt make sense is someone wanting a skill another guild thought up that they dont train and/or will never train or use if they had it.
It's the principal of it. By that logic, since you're magic most likely isn't one of your 'top 3 skills,' you shouldn't have it. Did someone just mention evasion? Is it one of your 'top 3 skills?'
>>We are armor prime, shield is armor.
I am weapon prime, uhh, weapons are for offense. No offensive abilities for you! Sound stupid?
>>More paladins use shield than any other guild.
Empaths use magic more than any other guild. No magic for anyone else! Again, sound stupid?
>>We ask for it.
I ask for it too.
>>We would use it everyday if we had it.
I would too.
>>We are frontline combat guild.
I am too.
>>We LEAD groups in combat.
I kill the groups you lead in combat. ;) What does this have to do with shields and bashing anyway?
>>And because some people call us Tin Cans.. and some shields are metal... Some people say barbs are leather wearers.. and some shields are leather...
Start a new trend. Maybe more guild only abilities that make no sense will be opened up to everyone.
-Just a Barb
I've wanted shield bash since the AOL days. What can I say? I like to bash things. Shield bash is such an old idea that there's no way in hell you can say that with any accuracy.
>>Also I would guess that the non-paladins on this board dont even have their shield in the top 10 highest skills
Don't assume, it makes an ass out of u and me.
>>and one of you said that you probably wouldnt even use it if you had it. Most paladins that use shield have it in the top 3 of skills. What doesnt make sense is someone wanting a skill another guild thought up that they dont train and/or will never train or use if they had it.
It's the principal of it. By that logic, since you're magic most likely isn't one of your 'top 3 skills,' you shouldn't have it. Did someone just mention evasion? Is it one of your 'top 3 skills?'
>>We are armor prime, shield is armor.
I am weapon prime, uhh, weapons are for offense. No offensive abilities for you! Sound stupid?
>>More paladins use shield than any other guild.
Empaths use magic more than any other guild. No magic for anyone else! Again, sound stupid?
>>We ask for it.
I ask for it too.
>>We would use it everyday if we had it.
I would too.
>>We are frontline combat guild.
I am too.
>>We LEAD groups in combat.
I kill the groups you lead in combat. ;) What does this have to do with shields and bashing anyway?
>>And because some people call us Tin Cans.. and some shields are metal... Some people say barbs are leather wearers.. and some shields are leather...
Start a new trend. Maybe more guild only abilities that make no sense will be opened up to everyone.
-Just a Barb
>I've wanted shield bash since the AOL days. What can I say? I like to bash things. Shield bash is such an old idea that there's no way in hell you can say that with any accuracy.
This I can't really argue with. Shield bash was in the original documentation for DR, along with disarm. (Weapon, not trap.) Kind of odd that they would include things that weren't implemented yet.
>It's the principal of it. By that logic, since you're magic most likely isn't one of your 'top 3 skills,' you shouldn't have it. Did someone just mention evasion? Is it one of your 'top 3 skills?'
>Empaths use magic more than any other guild. No magic for anyone else! Again, sound stupid?
As the top ten was mentioned before, I'm going with that. All four major magic skills, shield, and evasion are all in my top ten on my prime paladin. So, ha!
Anyway, you are discussing entire skills when making your examples. Paladins are not asking for a special ability in magic or evasion. We are asking for a special ability in shield usage. Every one else will still be able to use a shield even without shield bash and already has access to shield bashing with their right hand.
Player of Linras Cauldrath
This I can't really argue with. Shield bash was in the original documentation for DR, along with disarm. (Weapon, not trap.) Kind of odd that they would include things that weren't implemented yet.
>It's the principal of it. By that logic, since you're magic most likely isn't one of your 'top 3 skills,' you shouldn't have it. Did someone just mention evasion? Is it one of your 'top 3 skills?'
>Empaths use magic more than any other guild. No magic for anyone else! Again, sound stupid?
As the top ten was mentioned before, I'm going with that. All four major magic skills, shield, and evasion are all in my top ten on my prime paladin. So, ha!
Anyway, you are discussing entire skills when making your examples. Paladins are not asking for a special ability in magic or evasion. We are asking for a special ability in shield usage. Every one else will still be able to use a shield even without shield bash and already has access to shield bashing with their right hand.
Player of Linras Cauldrath
>> This I can't really argue with. Shield bash was in the original documentation for DR, along with disarm. (Weapon, not trap.) Kind of odd that they would include things that weren't implemented yet.
This is along the same lines. When disarm comes out, I'm sure you'll want a piece of the action, but if shield bash is implemented as Paladin only, due to your being armor primary, then using the same logic, disarm (and pommel bash) can only be Barbarian usable.
>> As the top ten was mentioned before, I'm going with that. All four major magic skills, shield, and evasion are all in my top ten on my prime paladin. So, ha!
Looking back, it was the top ten, so I give. <g>
>>Every one else will still be able to use a shield even without shield bash and already has access to shield bashing with their right hand.
It's still the principle of it. Making techniques like this (and choke) guild only is just plain stupid. How would my character, who uses a shield nearly every battle, not have figured out how to bash someone with it? (I can see how Pureblade wouldn't be able to figure out how to choke something, but the rest of you should be able to.)
This is along the same lines. When disarm comes out, I'm sure you'll want a piece of the action, but if shield bash is implemented as Paladin only, due to your being armor primary, then using the same logic, disarm (and pommel bash) can only be Barbarian usable.
>> As the top ten was mentioned before, I'm going with that. All four major magic skills, shield, and evasion are all in my top ten on my prime paladin. So, ha!
Looking back, it was the top ten, so I give. <g>
>>Every one else will still be able to use a shield even without shield bash and already has access to shield bashing with their right hand.
It's still the principle of it. Making techniques like this (and choke) guild only is just plain stupid. How would my character, who uses a shield nearly every battle, not have figured out how to bash someone with it? (I can see how Pureblade wouldn't be able to figure out how to choke something, but the rest of you should be able to.)
I think that all combat abilities should be open to all guilds, and properly bonused. I think that it should be intructed by a guild, as in barbs would teach choke, Paladins could teach shield bash, etc.
If modeled after the horse instruct system, I think it could benefit all players. It takes away the special move from the guild that has it, but the special move is not what defines the guild. It also provides an avenue for IC freindships, as the horse system has done.
Combat is combat whether its jab/draw, grapple/choke, or parry/shield bash -- hence special moves should not ever have been guild owned.
I do not understand why anyone would advocate a "guild only" combat manuever. It is only serving to promote senseless GvG arguments.
-Slaris
If modeled after the horse instruct system, I think it could benefit all players. It takes away the special move from the guild that has it, but the special move is not what defines the guild. It also provides an avenue for IC freindships, as the horse system has done.
Combat is combat whether its jab/draw, grapple/choke, or parry/shield bash -- hence special moves should not ever have been guild owned.
I do not understand why anyone would advocate a "guild only" combat manuever. It is only serving to promote senseless GvG arguments.
-Slaris
>This is along the same lines. When disarm comes out, I'm sure you'll want a piece of the action, but if shield bash is implemented as Paladin only, due to your being armor primary, then using the same logic, disarm (and pommel bash) can only be Barbarian usable.
Barb's got a point.
Litharius
Barb's got a point.
Litharius
Removing or temporarily hindering a weapon by blocking, ripping it out of an opponents hands, a standling grapple, or that cool swishing it outta thier hands so that it sticks in the ground 50 feet away is another example of a combat ability that anyone should be able to accomplish with enough weapon skill, strength, agility, and training.
-Slaris, swishing "S"'s on dead critters in a hunting ground near you.
(for Slaris, not Superman)
(or Spiderman <snicker>)
-Slaris, swishing "S"'s on dead critters in a hunting ground near you.
(for Slaris, not Superman)
(or Spiderman <snicker>)
>>Why because the term "disarm" is in their primary skill set?
More because using speed and agility to incapacitate someone is more Thief like, mainly due to the abilities they already have. The Ranger part I threw in there because Rangers, being hunters of wild animals or whatever, probably know the best ways to hog tie.. and normally the first step in that is making the thing unable to claw them stupid <G>
More because using speed and agility to incapacitate someone is more Thief like, mainly due to the abilities they already have. The Ranger part I threw in there because Rangers, being hunters of wild animals or whatever, probably know the best ways to hog tie.. and normally the first step in that is making the thing unable to claw them stupid <G>
I like Slaris's idea. That actually makes a lot of sense.
>>I thought pommel bash was the barbarian's shield bash.
I don't know what it's really going to turn out to be like, but when Agonar does it, he knocks people unconscious. <g>
>>Personally, I think Thieves and Rangers should disarm weapons.
Honestly, it should be open to everyone with enough skill, but Barbarians, Paladins, Thieves, War Mages, and Rangers, at least, should get it, in that order. Maybe switch War Mages and Rangers. Come to think of it, Bards should know how to do it too. Bah, everyone should be able to learn how.
>>I thought pommel bash was the barbarian's shield bash.
I don't know what it's really going to turn out to be like, but when Agonar does it, he knocks people unconscious. <g>
>>Personally, I think Thieves and Rangers should disarm weapons.
Honestly, it should be open to everyone with enough skill, but Barbarians, Paladins, Thieves, War Mages, and Rangers, at least, should get it, in that order. Maybe switch War Mages and Rangers. Come to think of it, Bards should know how to do it too. Bah, everyone should be able to learn how.
<<More because using speed and agility to incapacitate someone is more Thief like, mainly due to the abilities they already have. The Ranger part I threw in there because Rangers, being hunters of wild animals or whatever, probably know the best ways to hog tie.. and normally the first step in that is making the thing unable to claw them stupid <G> >>
I don't see thieves as being the disarming sort. They are more along the lines of kill them by any means necessary...As far as Rangers go; being able to subdue an animal and hogtie them is far different from taking a sword out of the hand of a humanoid creature...
--Just a Squire
I don't see thieves as being the disarming sort. They are more along the lines of kill them by any means necessary...As far as Rangers go; being able to subdue an animal and hogtie them is far different from taking a sword out of the hand of a humanoid creature...
--Just a Squire
>>I don't see thieves as being the disarming sort. They are more along the lines of kill them by any means necessary...
I can't really see a thief using it the same way as, say, a Barbarian, but I can see a thief taking their opponent's weapon right out of their hand with a quick twist of their opponent's arm, a la Jackie Chan.
I can't really see a thief using it the same way as, say, a Barbarian, but I can see a thief taking their opponent's weapon right out of their hand with a quick twist of their opponent's arm, a la Jackie Chan.
