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Average height ranges:
Gor'Togs: 8 - 10 feet male, 7.5 - 9.5 feet female
Kaldar: 6.5 - 8 feet male and female
Elves: 6 - 7 feet male, 5.5 - 6.5 feet female
Elotheans: 5.75 - 6.25 feet male, 5.25 - 6 feet female
S'Kra Mur: 5.75 - 6.25 feet female, 5.25 - 6 feet male
Humans, Rakash: 5.5 - 6 feet male, 5 - 5.75 feet female
Prydaen: 5.25 - 5.75 feet male, 5 - 5.5 feet female
Dwarves: 4.5 - 5.5 feet male, 4 - 5 feet female
Halflings: 3 - 4 feet male and female
Gnomes: 1.75 - 2.5 feet male and female
I had just allways kind of imagined gor togs and S'kra mur to have their female gender being the larger of the two. in nature we see lots of species where thats true. maybe its just me though.
> S'Kra Mur: 5.75 - 6.25 feet female, 5.25 - 6 feet male
S'kra females are larger.
I guess you were wrong about Togs
~Y
*Your witty comment here.* http://www.coalition.fairmont.nu
S'kra females are larger.
I guess you were wrong about Togs
~Y
*Your witty comment here.* http://www.coalition.fairmont.nu
>> Gnomes: 1.75 - 2.5 feet male and female
IMHO Gnomes are just impossibly small to be a PC race. My 4 m.o. baby is 25 inches (2 feet and 1 inch) tall. This would make him about average height for an adult gnome. I cannot begin to describe how ludicrous it would be for someone his size to wield a weapon as long as a scimitar, much less a broadsword/mace/shortbow etc., or to strap on a journey pack for that matter.
Yes, this is a game and there is necesarily a good deal of 'suspend your disbelief' required in day-to-day play. However, this is just a bit much. I'd say, make them about 6 inches shorter than halflings, on average (so, 2.5 - 3.5 feet). That would still be excessively small for 'realistic' purposes, but would not grate on the nerves quite as much.
Cydrik, et al.
IMHO Gnomes are just impossibly small to be a PC race. My 4 m.o. baby is 25 inches (2 feet and 1 inch) tall. This would make him about average height for an adult gnome. I cannot begin to describe how ludicrous it would be for someone his size to wield a weapon as long as a scimitar, much less a broadsword/mace/shortbow etc., or to strap on a journey pack for that matter.
Yes, this is a game and there is necesarily a good deal of 'suspend your disbelief' required in day-to-day play. However, this is just a bit much. I'd say, make them about 6 inches shorter than halflings, on average (so, 2.5 - 3.5 feet). That would still be excessively small for 'realistic' purposes, but would not grate on the nerves quite as much.
Cydrik, et al.
>>Gnomes: 1.75 - 2.5 feet male and female
Sounds about right to me based on most fantsy literature that has gnomes in it. They are a small race, around 2 feet tall or so.
If you do not like it, you can always imagine them as taller, not like there is someone stopping your imagination.
Brabs
Gnome go squish good. Got to love being a 'Tog.
What's mine is mine, what's yours is mine, what's not bolted down is mine, if it can be pried up it isn't bolted down.
Sounds about right to me based on most fantsy literature that has gnomes in it. They are a small race, around 2 feet tall or so.
If you do not like it, you can always imagine them as taller, not like there is someone stopping your imagination.
Brabs
Gnome go squish good. Got to love being a 'Tog.
What's mine is mine, what's yours is mine, what's not bolted down is mine, if it can be pried up it isn't bolted down.
> I cannot begin to describe how ludicrous it would be for someone his size to wield a weapon as long as a scimitar, much less a broadsword/mace/shortbow etc., or to strap on a journey pack for that matter.
This isn't a problem with the gnome themselves; it's an issue with players using items that are OOC for their characters. There are weapons and armor that would fit a gnome. If gnomes don't use them, then it's just rather silly on the players part. I mean it would be ludicrous if a Tog wore the tiny armor that's sold in Arthe, but it doesn't mean Togs should be smaller.
~Y
*Your witty comment here.*
http://www.coalition.fairmont.nu
This isn't a problem with the gnome themselves; it's an issue with players using items that are OOC for their characters. There are weapons and armor that would fit a gnome. If gnomes don't use them, then it's just rather silly on the players part. I mean it would be ludicrous if a Tog wore the tiny armor that's sold in Arthe, but it doesn't mean Togs should be smaller.
~Y
*Your witty comment here.*
http://www.coalition.fairmont.nu
From us Gnomes point of view...well, atleast mine...we were very glad we weren't made any taller. Originaly we were told 2 foot was the shortest we could be and everyone I met and asked said that was exactly how tall they were. Yes, the reality of things is that most equipment could not be used by someone that small. We Gnomes agree with this and we have asked for that to be fixed but not by enlarging the Gnome but shrinking the equipment. We've gotten that with armor but not much else so far.
It comes down to how much you want to roleplay it. There are two methods to this I believe. One, pretend everything you have was made for a Gnome. When you buy your first Crossing scimitar, you pretend that they pull down one of the Gnome sized ones from the wall. Clothing was tailored for your build, ect, ect. The second is to only use things that seem realistic for a Gnome. Always use light edges and only wear Gnome armor. I play a combination of these, I use primarily light edges and short bows, at most wielding an 18 stone scimitar which is about as small as you can get. I will never pick up a longbow because it would be impossible for a Gnome to even pull one back. But, since I don't want to run around naked I buy normal clothing and consider it as having been made for my size in the first place (even if it does weigh 4 times what my Gnome armor does in some cases).
It comes down to how much you want to roleplay it. There are two methods to this I believe. One, pretend everything you have was made for a Gnome. When you buy your first Crossing scimitar, you pretend that they pull down one of the Gnome sized ones from the wall. Clothing was tailored for your build, ect, ect. The second is to only use things that seem realistic for a Gnome. Always use light edges and only wear Gnome armor. I play a combination of these, I use primarily light edges and short bows, at most wielding an 18 stone scimitar which is about as small as you can get. I will never pick up a longbow because it would be impossible for a Gnome to even pull one back. But, since I don't want to run around naked I buy normal clothing and consider it as having been made for my size in the first place (even if it does weigh 4 times what my Gnome armor does in some cases).
>>It comes down to how much you want to roleplay it. There are two methods to this I believe. One, pretend everything you have was made for a Gnome. When you buy your first Crossing scimitar, you pretend that they pull down one of the Gnome sized ones from the wall. Clothing was tailored for your build, ect, ect. The second is to only use things that seem realistic for a Gnome.<<
I agree with this. I think you need to keep in mind a little of each. Game mechanics are going to force certain choices on you when you decide to play a character with low strength. For example, using a two-handed edged or heavy plate is going to be very difficult due to the RT and burden each will give you.
However, I also feel that we shouldn't assume that all items are made to human specifications only. In Elanthia, having 11 races is the norm, and it would only make sense that shopkeepers (especially since not all are human either) would sell items to accomodate everyone.
When you walk into a store to buy a "cloak" do you pick out one that is obviously 10 sizes too big? No, you go straight to the section that sells things in your size. Likewise, I imagine the merchants in Elanthia do the same, catering to each customer's needs. When my halfling bought her first longbow, she bought one designed for halfling hands, and if she were to fletch her own now, she should most certainly make one that is halfling sized, not human-sized. To me the name "longbow" is relative to the size of the user/maker and not to any one race inparticular. Ideally, my halfling's longbow would be a shortbow in the hands of a Twiceling, but that's probably way to difficult to code, (nevermind the complications involved with buying/selling used weapons) so we are left to RP that distinction ourselves.
Fizzia Fuzzlewump's Player
I agree with this. I think you need to keep in mind a little of each. Game mechanics are going to force certain choices on you when you decide to play a character with low strength. For example, using a two-handed edged or heavy plate is going to be very difficult due to the RT and burden each will give you.
However, I also feel that we shouldn't assume that all items are made to human specifications only. In Elanthia, having 11 races is the norm, and it would only make sense that shopkeepers (especially since not all are human either) would sell items to accomodate everyone.
When you walk into a store to buy a "cloak" do you pick out one that is obviously 10 sizes too big? No, you go straight to the section that sells things in your size. Likewise, I imagine the merchants in Elanthia do the same, catering to each customer's needs. When my halfling bought her first longbow, she bought one designed for halfling hands, and if she were to fletch her own now, she should most certainly make one that is halfling sized, not human-sized. To me the name "longbow" is relative to the size of the user/maker and not to any one race inparticular. Ideally, my halfling's longbow would be a shortbow in the hands of a Twiceling, but that's probably way to difficult to code, (nevermind the complications involved with buying/selling used weapons) so we are left to RP that distinction ourselves.
Fizzia Fuzzlewump's Player
"Ideally, my halfling's longbow would be a shortbow in the hands of a Twiceling, but that's probably way to difficult to code, (nevermind the complications involved with buying/selling used weapons)"
Coding such sizes
Is simple with few items
We have so many
It still may be done
And objects no longer change
Like spandex fabric
With new racial size
Changing things like the seaons
Who would be happy?
Racial encumbrance!
Flames fanned with pheonix feathers
Would sizes be worse?
-Robert
Coding such sizes
Is simple with few items
We have so many
It still may be done
And objects no longer change
Like spandex fabric
With new racial size
Changing things like the seaons
Who would be happy?
Racial encumbrance!
Flames fanned with pheonix feathers
Would sizes be worse?
-Robert
>>Oh yeah, actual medieval people were between 4 and 5 feet, I believe. Pikes were 11 feet long, so the hight ratio issue is moot as well.<<
There is an entire world of difference between how you use a pike in combat and how you use, to grab the example in this thread, a scimitar.
Generally, I agree with the idea that items should be assumed to be 'gnome sized.' The only problem my mind has with this is weapons. A gnome sized scimitar is, at best, a weird looking dagger. Setting a gnome-sized pike wouldn't stop a calvery charge, but it just might trip one.
Larcus' Player
There is an entire world of difference between how you use a pike in combat and how you use, to grab the example in this thread, a scimitar.
Generally, I agree with the idea that items should be assumed to be 'gnome sized.' The only problem my mind has with this is weapons. A gnome sized scimitar is, at best, a weird looking dagger. Setting a gnome-sized pike wouldn't stop a calvery charge, but it just might trip one.
Larcus' Player
Actually, a Gnome and Tog with 20 Str aren't as strong as each other, unless they've made the changes to that live.
Gnomes aren't phased by others who find our fighting funny looking. We're more interested in results. Plus some of us get a kick out of the comic nature of the whole thing, ala the tiny mouse chopping the cat in two with the six foot axe.
So, when the Gnome pulls out his battle axe and gets an evil glint in his eye, he's up to something which is probably going to hurt.
Gnomes aren't phased by others who find our fighting funny looking. We're more interested in results. Plus some of us get a kick out of the comic nature of the whole thing, ala the tiny mouse chopping the cat in two with the six foot axe.
So, when the Gnome pulls out his battle axe and gets an evil glint in his eye, he's up to something which is probably going to hurt.
>>Oh yeah, actual medieval people were between 4 and 5 feet <<
Ermm...no.
Maybe a couple inches shorter than we are today, but in no way as short as all that. There's a limt to how far diet will effect height before malnutrition kills them...and even the peasants and serfs in the middle ages actually didn't eat all that badly. They might not have eaten as well as we do today, but their diet certainly beat the heck out of what people were eating during the time period of the industrial revolution. If you think about it, these were the people who were raisin' the crops and tending the chickens...and you know farm work can raise up some big ol' boys today.
______Not a repair, a consolation for the marred world, but something deeper, closer to the true heart of things, fiercer, more dangerous and more beautiful, something that had never gone wrong to begin with...High Wizardry
Ermm...no.
Maybe a couple inches shorter than we are today, but in no way as short as all that. There's a limt to how far diet will effect height before malnutrition kills them...and even the peasants and serfs in the middle ages actually didn't eat all that badly. They might not have eaten as well as we do today, but their diet certainly beat the heck out of what people were eating during the time period of the industrial revolution. If you think about it, these were the people who were raisin' the crops and tending the chickens...and you know farm work can raise up some big ol' boys today.
______Not a repair, a consolation for the marred world, but something deeper, closer to the true heart of things, fiercer, more dangerous and more beautiful, something that had never gone wrong to begin with...High Wizardry
(whoops, lets fix that...)
http://www.plimoth.org/Library/l-short.htm
Viola. Average medeival height surveyed in the range of 5'6" and 3/4th" for men, 5' 1" and 1/2" for women.
This average held out well untill the 17th century, after which American colonists began to exhibit a higher average. Pun not intended.
Ironically, the medeival averages are roughly what the lowest standard deviation of average height is in America, now. This makes me feel better, somehow.
-Robert, 5'6" and 1/2"
http://www.plimoth.org/Library/l-short.htm
Viola. Average medeival height surveyed in the range of 5'6" and 3/4th" for men, 5' 1" and 1/2" for women.
This average held out well untill the 17th century, after which American colonists began to exhibit a higher average. Pun not intended.
Ironically, the medeival averages are roughly what the lowest standard deviation of average height is in America, now. This makes me feel better, somehow.
-Robert, 5'6" and 1/2"
I'm beginning to think that if I make it to Simucon, 5'10 or so'll make me look quite tall in comparison. It's much like the warm feeling you get around small children as you realize you're quite tall.
______Not a repair, a consolation for the marred world, but something deeper, closer to the true heart of things, fiercer, more dangerous and more beautiful, something that had never gone wrong to begin with...High Wizardry
______Not a repair, a consolation for the marred world, but something deeper, closer to the true heart of things, fiercer, more dangerous and more beautiful, something that had never gone wrong to begin with...High Wizardry
>>I'm beginning to think that if I make it to Simucon, 5'10 or so'll make me look quite tall in comparison. It's much like the warm feeling you get around small children as you realize you're quite tall.
As long as you don't stand next to me (6'3"), Chastain (6'4") or SIMU-Andy (not sure, but gotta be at least 6'5", the guy's a BEAR!), as well as several others. :-D
~~~Krin
who laughs every time he sees Andy give Taffei a hug, looks like the bear playing with his new rag doll
As long as you don't stand next to me (6'3"), Chastain (6'4") or SIMU-Andy (not sure, but gotta be at least 6'5", the guy's a BEAR!), as well as several others. :-D
~~~Krin
who laughs every time he sees Andy give Taffei a hug, looks like the bear playing with his new rag doll
That's alright...I'll just hang out with the short people and the ladies and leave you big guys to your own devices. ;) Stomping on buildings, kicking over cars, the like.
______Not a repair, a consolation for the marred world, but something deeper, closer to the true heart of things, fiercer, more dangerous and more beautiful, something that had never gone wrong to begin with...High Wizardry
______Not a repair, a consolation for the marred world, but something deeper, closer to the true heart of things, fiercer, more dangerous and more beautiful, something that had never gone wrong to begin with...High Wizardry
