Previous Thread
Previous
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
>>ain't no way a 44th thief is going to take on a 120plus? or whatever you are now.its not a matter of "text-hurt". shayddow isn't suicidal.
"I and my character lament the good old days, where we didn't have to die for what we believed in."
>>ain't no way a 44th thief is going to take on a 120plus? or whatever you are now.its not a matter of "text-hurt". shayddow isn't suicidal.
Didn't say it has to be you or one of your characters. Seems like you are the only one who has an issue with it, though. People don't screw with Lel, in general. It's not because she's a big crazy awesome thief. It's because people like her. She picked the right people to be friends with. I'd like to think I made good RP choices.
If you made good RP choices and could convince Lel that there's a reason (any reason) for her to not sell lockpicks, she wouldn't sell them. But no one has ever made a good argument to her for that in game.
- Badmommasquirrel
You push a tiny beanbag homunculus along the ground, exclaiming, "Super-'Monculus hunts for juicy angleworms!"
Didn't say it has to be you or one of your characters. Seems like you are the only one who has an issue with it, though. People don't screw with Lel, in general. It's not because she's a big crazy awesome thief. It's because people like her. She picked the right people to be friends with. I'd like to think I made good RP choices.
If you made good RP choices and could convince Lel that there's a reason (any reason) for her to not sell lockpicks, she wouldn't sell them. But no one has ever made a good argument to her for that in game.
- Badmommasquirrel
You push a tiny beanbag homunculus along the ground, exclaiming, "Super-'Monculus hunts for juicy angleworms!"
like i said though, its a dead horse, because everyone will be able to carve lockpicks once 3.0 is out and running. the powers-that-be have already decided. So I'm not gonna beat a dead horse.
As for RP'ed choices with Shayddow's friends, those who were members of the ru'at besides shayddow are no longer playing. Neither are Fums, Max, Severl, or others which were part and parcel of the old Thief RP group. None of which is my fault.
War is Peace, Truth is Lies. -george orwell
As for RP'ed choices with Shayddow's friends, those who were members of the ru'at besides shayddow are no longer playing. Neither are Fums, Max, Severl, or others which were part and parcel of the old Thief RP group. None of which is my fault.
War is Peace, Truth is Lies. -george orwell
>>Didn't say it has to be you or one of your characters.
Which would also massively decrease the likelihood of successful RP turning into a consult, since we're reminiscing about the past.
Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson
AIM - RykenDR
Which would also massively decrease the likelihood of successful RP turning into a consult, since we're reminiscing about the past.
Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson
AIM - RykenDR
>And no one knows whether he got a talking to or a Warning for doing it either. Not saying he did, I'm just saying that he or anyone else may have done what they did and taken their lumps from us afterwards. It's not like we announce who gets warnings or cautions or even talked to.
So nobody can provide examples, and unless one of those old chaps pops in to enlighten us we will only have what we remember to go on. Perhaps it was all player driven, perhaps not. I don't disagree that it should be player driven, but I think it is a pipe dream asking for it to happen again.
I hope someone proves me wrong and the guild becomes great again and we have some fun etc but I think most people are content to carry on watching the numbers rise. The Thief community is non existent, these folders are a wasteland, we have had no meaningful GM input into the guild in over a year and from the amount of arguing over PvP in other folders it would only create another headache, fizzle out and we will be back where we are now.
Bleak? Realistic? You decide.
So nobody can provide examples, and unless one of those old chaps pops in to enlighten us we will only have what we remember to go on. Perhaps it was all player driven, perhaps not. I don't disagree that it should be player driven, but I think it is a pipe dream asking for it to happen again.
I hope someone proves me wrong and the guild becomes great again and we have some fun etc but I think most people are content to carry on watching the numbers rise. The Thief community is non existent, these folders are a wasteland, we have had no meaningful GM input into the guild in over a year and from the amount of arguing over PvP in other folders it would only create another headache, fizzle out and we will be back where we are now.
Bleak? Realistic? You decide.
>>like i said though, its a dead horse, because everyone will be able to carve lockpicks once 3.0 is out and running. the powers-that-be have already decided. So I'm not gonna beat a dead horse.
You're focusing on lamenting about one tree and ignoring the entire forest, though.
The point is that the guild doesn't uphold certain standards that players created because players stopped upholding them. Yes, it is true that at times GMNPCs supported what players were doing, but without those players the GMs wouldn't have done it to begin with.
So, it seems that the best way to begin embracing those player based standards is by having players go recruit other players to also support those player based standards. In the long run, other players might have other standards that they as players created. It's also possible that those players might have better influence and the GMNPCs might sway toward those players because they're more willing to die/fight/uphold their standards, and maybe the GMNPC would respect those standards more than the standards of the characters who sorta just shrug and go "oh well at least I asked time to lament on the forums instead of keep RPing"
You're focusing on lamenting about one tree and ignoring the entire forest, though.
The point is that the guild doesn't uphold certain standards that players created because players stopped upholding them. Yes, it is true that at times GMNPCs supported what players were doing, but without those players the GMs wouldn't have done it to begin with.
So, it seems that the best way to begin embracing those player based standards is by having players go recruit other players to also support those player based standards. In the long run, other players might have other standards that they as players created. It's also possible that those players might have better influence and the GMNPCs might sway toward those players because they're more willing to die/fight/uphold their standards, and maybe the GMNPC would respect those standards more than the standards of the characters who sorta just shrug and go "oh well at least I asked time to lament on the forums instead of keep RPing"
I doubt very much it will happen, when we can't even express the opinion that much was lost of the flavor of the guild when the old tog was offed via our signature, without over-enthusiastic board monitor censorship stiffles that. So is RP going to fare much better?
War is Peace, Truth is Lies. -george orwell
War is Peace, Truth is Lies. -george orwell
>>I doubt very much it will happen, when we can't even express the opinion that much was lost of the flavor of the guild when the old tog was offed via our signature, without over-enthusiastic board monitor censorship stiffles that.
You can tell there's too much censorship because this thread was created over three months ago and has 100+ responses with around a dozen from Solomon and other GMs.
You can tell there's too much censorship because this thread was created over three months ago and has 100+ responses with around a dozen from Solomon and other GMs.
No one was being "over-enthusiastic". If you don't know by now, and you very well should know by now, we have policies regarding disruption, negativity and posts of a non-constructive nature.
Folks need to remember that if you don't ever do anything but nit-pick, blame, accuse, lament, and cast dispersions left and right, your voice will quickly stop being heard.
Not saying you're in that boat, Gonif, but your drum-banging protest signature proclaiming the death of the guild was nothing more than disruptive blame-throwing and stuff like that certainly doesn't do you any favors when it comes to putting weight to your opinions.
Solomon
Folks need to remember that if you don't ever do anything but nit-pick, blame, accuse, lament, and cast dispersions left and right, your voice will quickly stop being heard.
Not saying you're in that boat, Gonif, but your drum-banging protest signature proclaiming the death of the guild was nothing more than disruptive blame-throwing and stuff like that certainly doesn't do you any favors when it comes to putting weight to your opinions.
Solomon
Since Solomon seems to have been visiting a lot lately, this is more directly to him:
Traders Selling, and Basically Storing thiefish items in their store. Does this suggest whether their Open or not that they're acting in a way that gives full consent on that character, and any characters that are knowing supporting this (possibly Thieves giving the items away, Mules that from time to time handle them, obviously the trader that 'rents/owns/operates' the shop).
I don't have much of a view of the good old days when GMs really were backing us, though the Sewer guild just seemed awesome. There was a flare to me, that just doesn't exist in the current one (go with that where you may).
As far as training rooms, I'm not asking for a do it all. Definitely not a free for all.
Things that might be nice is a climbing area, it might be cool if we had to mine it, and we bump into a watering hole (for a little swimming).
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Traders Selling, and Basically Storing thiefish items in their store. Does this suggest whether their Open or not that they're acting in a way that gives full consent on that character, and any characters that are knowing supporting this (possibly Thieves giving the items away, Mules that from time to time handle them, obviously the trader that 'rents/owns/operates' the shop).
I don't have much of a view of the good old days when GMs really were backing us, though the Sewer guild just seemed awesome. There was a flare to me, that just doesn't exist in the current one (go with that where you may).
As far as training rooms, I'm not asking for a do it all. Definitely not a free for all.
Things that might be nice is a climbing area, it might be cool if we had to mine it, and we bump into a watering hole (for a little swimming).
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
<<Traders Selling, and Basically Storing thiefish items in their store. Does this suggest whether their Open or not that they're acting in a way that gives full consent on that character, and any characters that are knowing supporting this (possibly Thieves giving the items away, Mules that from time to time handle them, obviously the trader that 'rents/owns/operates' the shop).>>
Personally, I think that makes them fair game. Officially, I'm going to say we probably need to discuss it a little.
<<Things that might be nice is a climbing area, it might be cool if we had to mine it, and we bump into a watering hole (for a little swimming). >>
The problem is those sorts of things would allow private, protected training (and scripting) without anyone else being able to get there and use them.
Solomon
Personally, I think that makes them fair game. Officially, I'm going to say we probably need to discuss it a little.
<<Things that might be nice is a climbing area, it might be cool if we had to mine it, and we bump into a watering hole (for a little swimming). >>
The problem is those sorts of things would allow private, protected training (and scripting) without anyone else being able to get there and use them.
Solomon
>>The problem is those sorts of things would allow private, protected training (and scripting) without anyone else being able to get there and use them.<<
I kind of get your point, however, what exactly are you talking about in terms of "protected training". Couldn't I set my profile to closed and go climb the tree in langen for a few hours, listen to the classes, and even go for a swim? I feel like that is "protected". The reason I threw out the climbing wall in guild" suggestion was to allow thieves a place to congregate alone and perhaps help formulate some comrade like the old guild feel where there were always a few people training up in the guild.
I get that its probably not going to happen, but I'm not sure I get the reason completely.
I kind of get your point, however, what exactly are you talking about in terms of "protected training". Couldn't I set my profile to closed and go climb the tree in langen for a few hours, listen to the classes, and even go for a swim? I feel like that is "protected". The reason I threw out the climbing wall in guild" suggestion was to allow thieves a place to congregate alone and perhaps help formulate some comrade like the old guild feel where there were always a few people training up in the guild.
I get that its probably not going to happen, but I'm not sure I get the reason completely.
<<I kind of get your point, however, what exactly are you talking about in terms of "protected training". Couldn't I set my profile to closed and go climb the tree in langen for a few hours, listen to the classes, and even go for a swim? I feel like that is "protected". The reason I threw out the climbing wall in guild" suggestion was to allow thieves a place to congregate alone and perhaps help formulate some comrade like the old guild feel where there were always a few people training up in the guild>>
But doing so out in the open means more people have access to you, Closed or otherwise.
I understand what you're saying and understand the goal you're trying to achieve. From a game-fairness standpoint, however, we wouldn't put something like that in a guild (especially in a hidden one), just like we wouldn't put training opportunities in the Crossing Jail Cell and we don't allow experience gain inside Vaults.
Solomon
But doing so out in the open means more people have access to you, Closed or otherwise.
I understand what you're saying and understand the goal you're trying to achieve. From a game-fairness standpoint, however, we wouldn't put something like that in a guild (especially in a hidden one), just like we wouldn't put training opportunities in the Crossing Jail Cell and we don't allow experience gain inside Vaults.
Solomon
>> I understand what you're saying and understand the goal you're trying to achieve. From a game-fairness standpoint, however, we wouldn't put something like that in a guild (especially in a hidden one), just like we wouldn't put training opportunities in the Crossing Jail Cell and we don't allow experience gain inside Vaults.
Ultimately, the current setup is inferior to other guild-related gathering spots, though, primarily due to the lack of foraging (and thus the lack of Mech exp gain).
Could we at least get dirt/rock foraging turned on in the Den?
You typed Roar Help. Good for you!
Ultimately, the current setup is inferior to other guild-related gathering spots, though, primarily due to the lack of foraging (and thus the lack of Mech exp gain).
Could we at least get dirt/rock foraging turned on in the Den?
You typed Roar Help. Good for you!
>>The point is that the guild doesn't uphold certain standards that players created because players stopped upholding them. Yes, it is true that at times GMNPCs supported what players were doing, but without those players the GMs wouldn't have done it to begin with.
I disagree. I know Soim did end up getting a warning (singular) for unconsented PvP related to guild enforcement, but I can't remember if he stopped giving a crap about the guild at that time or if it was a delayed reaction. I also think, ironically, it was Ambika-related.
Regardless, the fact was from 96 to 99 Thieves were basically free to self-police. Thieves weren't considered to have a "closed" stance as far as PvP went. This was thoroughly supported by the Thief Gurus, who would even spirit the Thieves out of consequence for handling guild business.
Ultimately it comes down to a chicken vs. egg argument. Solomon's stance is that chickens came first. I assert it was eggs. It's an irreconcilable argument.
I disagree. I know Soim did end up getting a warning (singular) for unconsented PvP related to guild enforcement, but I can't remember if he stopped giving a crap about the guild at that time or if it was a delayed reaction. I also think, ironically, it was Ambika-related.
Regardless, the fact was from 96 to 99 Thieves were basically free to self-police. Thieves weren't considered to have a "closed" stance as far as PvP went. This was thoroughly supported by the Thief Gurus, who would even spirit the Thieves out of consequence for handling guild business.
Ultimately it comes down to a chicken vs. egg argument. Solomon's stance is that chickens came first. I assert it was eggs. It's an irreconcilable argument.
>>But as he said, it's because our guild is closed off to everyone else, I get it now... We can still make this work let me think on it.
Rangers are going to want a swimming and climbing available in their guild. Necromancers may want something. And so on.
I suggest someone step up and try to form a new Code. Initially there may not be much support, but all you need is to get 3 or 4 reasonably strong Thieves (from 50-100th) to band together and wreck havoc. Eventually they'll make a name for themselves and become notorious. Maybe more would join. Send the events gms a message and create an event. Try to get someone to grab control of Kalag and participate. Give it multiple tries. I guarantee there will be some kind of impact, and then you could build from there.
Thieves have so many roleplaying opportunities it's just crazy. Kalag the Black dying should've sparked a huge amount of potential for RP. I know it's easier said than done, but I feel like I know how to generate some RP and the Thief guild is ripe for it.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Rangers are going to want a swimming and climbing available in their guild. Necromancers may want something. And so on.
I suggest someone step up and try to form a new Code. Initially there may not be much support, but all you need is to get 3 or 4 reasonably strong Thieves (from 50-100th) to band together and wreck havoc. Eventually they'll make a name for themselves and become notorious. Maybe more would join. Send the events gms a message and create an event. Try to get someone to grab control of Kalag and participate. Give it multiple tries. I guarantee there will be some kind of impact, and then you could build from there.
Thieves have so many roleplaying opportunities it's just crazy. Kalag the Black dying should've sparked a huge amount of potential for RP. I know it's easier said than done, but I feel like I know how to generate some RP and the Thief guild is ripe for it.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
<<Sitting and waiting won't accomplish anything.
Vin is really hitting the nail on the head. Listen, I get your frustration I really do but you can change things if you just try. I am going to give you an example of how things can change if you desire change and put some effort into it.
NOTE: This is going to sound like I am patting myself on the back, but that is not the case as that is not really how I am. However, I think it is a good example of "doing" leading to substantive changes.
Background and Mindset Five Years Ago: Yeah, the paladin guild really blows and has for a long time with regard to development. Who knows? Maybe that is changing on the horizon, who knows?
So, five years ago I decided that (i) I would speak out on the forums more on paladin development and (ii) (most importantly for this thread) create something for the guild that I found enjoyable. As I looked around for something enjoyable, I found that what the paladin guild DID have was a pre-made roleplay and the foundations of some pretty cool history.
What I did:
1. I really dove head first into the history of the paladin guild. Oddly, I didn't find much but I did find this interesting little thing called "The Code" written in a random spot, on an unusual arch in Shard. After asking around, no one really knew that the Code existed absent a GM post making the Code and that it was a rather hot topic on our forums many years ago.
2. I had my main character (Madigan) adopt the Code and start following it to the letter. This created a ton of enjoyment for me personally as it was pre-made RP.
3. Most importantly for this thread, I decided to start teaching the Code and talking about the Code to every paladin I came across. I also had my character (Madigan) start taking on "Squires" with the sole topic of learning being, well the Code of course.
4. I started posting these "journal entries" to push the roleplay more into the public eye. I am sure they are pretty corny to some folks, but it gave me personal enjoyment and it also had the side benefit of making more roleplay revolving around this "Code" and raised awareness of the Code.
The Perceived Results:
1. From this idea came 14 Squires that have learned the Code.
2. The paladin guild has an actual event based (in part) on the Code.
3. I have personally met and RP'ed with more people based on this quirky idea than anything else I ever did in the game.
What does it mean for you:
Well, it seems that your situation is very similar (sans the bad development of your guild) in that you have this "Olde Code" that has been lost (or perceived to have been lost) and you are struggling with reliving the old days.
What can you do:
1. Start taking on some younger members (or older) and teach them the Code.
2. Live the Code through your actions, and get the word out IG and out of game about what your character is doing.
3. As with any good RP, it will take a long time and consistent roleplay on your part. However, it is totally within your control and you can accomplish your goal I think.
Madigan
Vin is really hitting the nail on the head. Listen, I get your frustration I really do but you can change things if you just try. I am going to give you an example of how things can change if you desire change and put some effort into it.
NOTE: This is going to sound like I am patting myself on the back, but that is not the case as that is not really how I am. However, I think it is a good example of "doing" leading to substantive changes.
Background and Mindset Five Years Ago: Yeah, the paladin guild really blows and has for a long time with regard to development. Who knows? Maybe that is changing on the horizon, who knows?
So, five years ago I decided that (i) I would speak out on the forums more on paladin development and (ii) (most importantly for this thread) create something for the guild that I found enjoyable. As I looked around for something enjoyable, I found that what the paladin guild DID have was a pre-made roleplay and the foundations of some pretty cool history.
What I did:
1. I really dove head first into the history of the paladin guild. Oddly, I didn't find much but I did find this interesting little thing called "The Code" written in a random spot, on an unusual arch in Shard. After asking around, no one really knew that the Code existed absent a GM post making the Code and that it was a rather hot topic on our forums many years ago.
2. I had my main character (Madigan) adopt the Code and start following it to the letter. This created a ton of enjoyment for me personally as it was pre-made RP.
3. Most importantly for this thread, I decided to start teaching the Code and talking about the Code to every paladin I came across. I also had my character (Madigan) start taking on "Squires" with the sole topic of learning being, well the Code of course.
4. I started posting these "journal entries" to push the roleplay more into the public eye. I am sure they are pretty corny to some folks, but it gave me personal enjoyment and it also had the side benefit of making more roleplay revolving around this "Code" and raised awareness of the Code.
The Perceived Results:
1. From this idea came 14 Squires that have learned the Code.
2. The paladin guild has an actual event based (in part) on the Code.
3. I have personally met and RP'ed with more people based on this quirky idea than anything else I ever did in the game.
What does it mean for you:
Well, it seems that your situation is very similar (sans the bad development of your guild) in that you have this "Olde Code" that has been lost (or perceived to have been lost) and you are struggling with reliving the old days.
What can you do:
1. Start taking on some younger members (or older) and teach them the Code.
2. Live the Code through your actions, and get the word out IG and out of game about what your character is doing.
3. As with any good RP, it will take a long time and consistent roleplay on your part. However, it is totally within your control and you can accomplish your goal I think.
Madigan
Madigan couldn't be more right, and Solomon (now I feel dirty) as well. The players made the guild what it was then. It doesn't seem anyone has the fire in their belly to do it again. Sometimes it took a GM to inspire us,but it didn't take direct involvement. And as far as old names not being around...it's just a name. As flattering it is for me to be mentioned, all I really did was fight (mainly Jrendel...wow I miss him) and stood up for what my twisted perception of right was.
Subs
Subs
>>As flattering it is for me to be mentioned, all I really did was fight (mainly Jrendel...wow I miss him) and stood up for what my twisted perception of right was.
If it boggles your mind less, you can swap Tulmara's name with yours. Anyway, it's good to see you're not gone.
Like I said before, my Thief is a glorified NPC locksmith now. I won't have more than an hour here and there to play until after Christmas, likely. But I might give actually playing a whirl then.
If it boggles your mind less, you can swap Tulmara's name with yours. Anyway, it's good to see you're not gone.
Like I said before, my Thief is a glorified NPC locksmith now. I won't have more than an hour here and there to play until after Christmas, likely. But I might give actually playing a whirl then.
Solomon thought we should discuss this concept of traders selling 'Thieves Items', that is things like Fade and Ambika weapons.
Where I'd like to start is what is annoying about this, is displays things and puts items out in the open that are Thieves, while we are supposed to be this Organization that is secret, hush-hush, stealthy, shadowy. Further, while they are out on display the only course to remove them, to truly remove them is to buy the items.
We could possibly enter into conflicts with the person, and they may die 1 time, and chose to honor the resulting death with removal of the items from their shop. They could die 10 times, and remove the offending items from their shop. They could die
100 times, and remove the offending items from the shop. They could die 1000 times, and then remove the offending items from their shop. So on and so forth.
Nothing is forcing their hand, its just text death, so what, so players seem to have a great time despite their text dying, and whatever matters.
It is this point that leaves me, at leaving them alone for the most part. It'll take time to take on the party, and whether or not I can get up to any of those kill points, the player still has the choice of just keeping the item on their shelf.
To me, as this is a world, a world where we play roles, taking on a role that is offensive to the Thieves Guild (which at least some thieves agree on this, Sebastienne Dane seems to think its rather weak but others seem to be against it... The concept behind the news and announcement of the Fade items, would suggest it should be offensive, but... but I don't get much of a world view on that) should result in well the Thieves Guild doing something to you.
Why I bring that last part up is, that while I as a player wouldn't like non-Thieves to have Thieves items in there vault. So what, its not on display, its almost an OOC part of the game, you can't train or learn in there, your gweth doesn't work.
So once again, my big problem, is what is really going to stop a character from selling Thieves items in their shop. Killing them, if it were allowed, which from what Solomon suggested in having it be discussed, I'm not even sure if he's willing to see the point of them acting in a manner which essentially leaves them open, that is allows Thieves to act on them as if they have consent on them.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Where I'd like to start is what is annoying about this, is displays things and puts items out in the open that are Thieves, while we are supposed to be this Organization that is secret, hush-hush, stealthy, shadowy. Further, while they are out on display the only course to remove them, to truly remove them is to buy the items.
We could possibly enter into conflicts with the person, and they may die 1 time, and chose to honor the resulting death with removal of the items from their shop. They could die 10 times, and remove the offending items from their shop. They could die
100 times, and remove the offending items from the shop. They could die 1000 times, and then remove the offending items from their shop. So on and so forth.
Nothing is forcing their hand, its just text death, so what, so players seem to have a great time despite their text dying, and whatever matters.
It is this point that leaves me, at leaving them alone for the most part. It'll take time to take on the party, and whether or not I can get up to any of those kill points, the player still has the choice of just keeping the item on their shelf.
To me, as this is a world, a world where we play roles, taking on a role that is offensive to the Thieves Guild (which at least some thieves agree on this, Sebastienne Dane seems to think its rather weak but others seem to be against it... The concept behind the news and announcement of the Fade items, would suggest it should be offensive, but... but I don't get much of a world view on that) should result in well the Thieves Guild doing something to you.
Why I bring that last part up is, that while I as a player wouldn't like non-Thieves to have Thieves items in there vault. So what, its not on display, its almost an OOC part of the game, you can't train or learn in there, your gweth doesn't work.
So once again, my big problem, is what is really going to stop a character from selling Thieves items in their shop. Killing them, if it were allowed, which from what Solomon suggested in having it be discussed, I'm not even sure if he's willing to see the point of them acting in a manner which essentially leaves them open, that is allows Thieves to act on them as if they have consent on them.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
When I initially heard about it I was dismayed but I didn't have the full picture. From what I understand the weapons are out on the table to provoke some PvP. Tiesse designed them specifically to promote PvP so in that regard there is nothing wrong with it. If you catch a non Thief with an Ambika weapon, you can have them thugged, but the beauty of the Fade weapons is that possessing them and refusing to relinquish them gives you consent to try and bring them back into guild hands.
The question is whether anyone is concerned enough to do anything about it. I did when they first came out, called someone out who had a pair of the crossbows on them, but they turned out to be a guilded Thief. Apart from that I haven't seen anyone else trying to flaunt them or use them.
The question is whether anyone is concerned enough to do anything about it. I did when they first came out, called someone out who had a pair of the crossbows on them, but they turned out to be a guilded Thief. Apart from that I haven't seen anyone else trying to flaunt them or use them.
<<From a game-fairness standpoint, however, we wouldn't put something like that in a guild (especially in a hidden one), >>
can't Moonmages train magic up the wazoo within sect halls? Which are inaccessible not only from other guilds but to anyone outside their sect? how would this be so different?
War is Peace, Truth is Lies. -george orwell
can't Moonmages train magic up the wazoo within sect halls? Which are inaccessible not only from other guilds but to anyone outside their sect? how would this be so different?
War is Peace, Truth is Lies. -george orwell
>can't Moonmages train magic up the wazoo within sect halls? Which are inaccessible not only from other guilds but to anyone outside their sect? how would this be so different?
All mages can train magic anywhere there is not a specific mechanic preventing it. They can also train (le gasp!) vocals, teaching, and a number of other things in there.
The difference is that there is no specific training item/device in the room to aid such. Players carry any training items with them into the sect halls, and...really, if you can't see the difference, I'm sorry. This is as far into an explanation I got.
All mages can train magic anywhere there is not a specific mechanic preventing it. They can also train (le gasp!) vocals, teaching, and a number of other things in there.
The difference is that there is no specific training item/device in the room to aid such. Players carry any training items with them into the sect halls, and...really, if you can't see the difference, I'm sorry. This is as far into an explanation I got.
>>can't Moonmages train magic up the wazoo within sect halls? Which are inaccessible not only from other guilds but to anyone outside their sect? how would this be so different?
The issue isn't that players shouldn't be allowed to train in their guild, it's that players shouldn't have private guild only areas be a one stop shop for their guild requirements.
A better comparison would be why Barbarians don't have training dummies to move weapon skills, or Paladins don't have big rubber pillars that can smack into them to train armor, or why Necromancers don't have a big pile of corpses for Thanatology, etc.
The issue isn't that players shouldn't be allowed to train in their guild, it's that players shouldn't have private guild only areas be a one stop shop for their guild requirements.
A better comparison would be why Barbarians don't have training dummies to move weapon skills, or Paladins don't have big rubber pillars that can smack into them to train armor, or why Necromancers don't have a big pile of corpses for Thanatology, etc.
"one stop shop" - i didn't see a request for a one-stop shop type of area. a wall to climb, or a low-level stealing dummy - which RL thieves of the genre used to train <see oliver twist> wouldn't train all thief requirements, unless you had critters level 1-150, boxes, and all sorts of other things.
War is Peace, Truth is Lies. -george orwell
War is Peace, Truth is Lies. -george orwell
>>i didn't see a request for a one-stop shop type of area. a wall to climb, or a low-level stealing dummy - which RL thieves of the genre used to train <see oliver twist> wouldn't train all thief requirements
"The problem is those sorts of things would allow private, protected training (and scripting) without anyone else being able to get there and use them."
"The problem is those sorts of things would allow private, protected training (and scripting) without anyone else being able to get there and use them."
Hey no giving away guild secrets (I will not repeat the line, because it gives away guild information if a moderator wants to destroy that message).
Back to the point on the Fade weapons and PvP.
What I brought back from: From what I understand the weapons are out on the table to provoke some PvP. Tiesse designed them specifically to promote PvP so in that regard there is nothing wrong with it. If you catch a non Thief with an Ambika weapon, you can have them thugged, but the beauty of the Fade weapons is that possessing them and refusing to relinquish them gives you consent to try and bring them back into guild hands.
Is that it's alright for these weapons to be on the table because PvP is being generated, despite that in this conflict there is no chance of acquiring the weapon?
This is based on a purely mechanical look at this, if a person were to be holding onto the item, then when they die. The item could be returned to a 'proper owner'. Or if they weren't holding onto it, but it was somewhere on their person, then if/when they depart (without the all or items special), then the items would be available to be returned to a 'proper owner'.
For me, for most of my characters to go into PvP is rather a big issue, what I am suggesting is that I won't have my character fly off their handle because of something rather silly. And most of my characters have some logic. And entering into conflict where there is no victory is just sad.
Now maybe I didn't hear things fully, maybe this particular merchant honors the conflict and after losing five times or some arbitrary number they gave the 'proper owner' the item. Well that's great, sorry about this whole long labor and blah blah blah, and yadda yadda yadda. I still suggest that the system as it is allows for someone to hold items out in a showy manner, with little recourse to stop them.
Just for instance, a Trader doesn't need to be in a shop to have it open. Traders can spend very little time in a shop, to do a few maintenance items rarely, and the shop will remain open. As long as it sells right, and all that stuff. A trader could just leave items about, hardly log in, only do maintenance and leave.
Which brings myself to another point, to eliminate the trader, while in a shop just seems well poor form on the part of a shadowy organization. All those trader guards, as witnesses.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Back to the point on the Fade weapons and PvP.
What I brought back from: From what I understand the weapons are out on the table to provoke some PvP. Tiesse designed them specifically to promote PvP so in that regard there is nothing wrong with it. If you catch a non Thief with an Ambika weapon, you can have them thugged, but the beauty of the Fade weapons is that possessing them and refusing to relinquish them gives you consent to try and bring them back into guild hands.
Is that it's alright for these weapons to be on the table because PvP is being generated, despite that in this conflict there is no chance of acquiring the weapon?
This is based on a purely mechanical look at this, if a person were to be holding onto the item, then when they die. The item could be returned to a 'proper owner'. Or if they weren't holding onto it, but it was somewhere on their person, then if/when they depart (without the all or items special), then the items would be available to be returned to a 'proper owner'.
For me, for most of my characters to go into PvP is rather a big issue, what I am suggesting is that I won't have my character fly off their handle because of something rather silly. And most of my characters have some logic. And entering into conflict where there is no victory is just sad.
Now maybe I didn't hear things fully, maybe this particular merchant honors the conflict and after losing five times or some arbitrary number they gave the 'proper owner' the item. Well that's great, sorry about this whole long labor and blah blah blah, and yadda yadda yadda. I still suggest that the system as it is allows for someone to hold items out in a showy manner, with little recourse to stop them.
Just for instance, a Trader doesn't need to be in a shop to have it open. Traders can spend very little time in a shop, to do a few maintenance items rarely, and the shop will remain open. As long as it sells right, and all that stuff. A trader could just leave items about, hardly log in, only do maintenance and leave.
Which brings myself to another point, to eliminate the trader, while in a shop just seems well poor form on the part of a shadowy organization. All those trader guards, as witnesses.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
My drunk 2 cents. I once worked for a fireworks stand in a moderate sized town. Needless to say the rules for fireworks on the fourth were broken down into two categories, snakes, and sparklers(little less silly but joe dirt references are needed...somewhere). I knowing i was going to be working at this stand went to a neiborghing state and bought some of the good stuff. When i saw someone who mentioned, or straight up looked disatisfied with the selection we had, I took them to the back of my truck with the fireworks covered. 100% of the time they paid more for the good stuff and we both went along are day a little happier. If this was roleplayed out it probably wouldn't of been so bad, but than again i didn't accidentaly try to sell fireworks to a fireman. Haveing said thief weapons and selling them is sketchy, haveing your shop open and being god knows where is bull. Selling them face to face with a nod and a smile not knowing who your selling them too is good rp in my opinion. Sticking them on a table of an alt and thinking its kosh. lends nothing to the gaming experience and if i'm wrong tell me but this smells like mech abuse.
Drunk as usuall getting breeeter onlavy once a moth
Drunk as usuall getting breeeter onlavy once a moth
>Is that it's alright for these weapons to be on the table because PvP is being generated, despite that in this conflict there is no chance of acquiring the weapon?
I don't think that there has to be a chance of acquiring the weapons. As long as the owner understands that he is liable to attack and hostile attention from the guild, and is prepared to face them, then it's game on. It may mean that the weapons are never recovered, but maybe someone will buy one. You could try finding out who supplied them and bring the traitor to justice.
I don't think that there has to be a chance of acquiring the weapons. As long as the owner understands that he is liable to attack and hostile attention from the guild, and is prepared to face them, then it's game on. It may mean that the weapons are never recovered, but maybe someone will buy one. You could try finding out who supplied them and bring the traitor to justice.
I think what he is saying is:
1. Fade stuff is there to promote PvP.
2. Displaying the Fade stuff did provoke PvP, all good in the hood.
3. However, nothing I do can make them stop selling the Fade stuff....so is the end game just PvP or can we have a mechanic to make them stop selling the Fade stuff.
My thought was:
Since the intent is PvP, then PvP is the only end game you are intended to receive. Enjoy the fight knowing that nothing you do can make them remove the items.
Madigan
1. Fade stuff is there to promote PvP.
2. Displaying the Fade stuff did provoke PvP, all good in the hood.
3. However, nothing I do can make them stop selling the Fade stuff....so is the end game just PvP or can we have a mechanic to make them stop selling the Fade stuff.
My thought was:
Since the intent is PvP, then PvP is the only end game you are intended to receive. Enjoy the fight knowing that nothing you do can make them remove the items.
Madigan
