I agree with you Dhani, that the so-called "elders" of the guild should try to assist in the guidance of the new members. There's one striking flaw there though. As you move up, progressing in skill, the common path leads you away from the populace, out to the islands and other far away areas, thus turning you into the loners that you spoke of.

It often falls upon the middle guys, those in the 30s and 40s, that still inhabit the cities, to guide the young. I do recommend though, that those mid-range folks seek their own guidance from the elders, from time to time.

~Bre


"Mans only limitation is that he has no limitations" ~Bruce Lee 1941-1973

Unfortunately its only gonna get worse.

Due to how badly stealth has been screwed up, elders are forced to find the 1 critter that can teach them hidin, then another place for a critter to teach locks & disarm, stalk, backstab, etc.

And because the pawn shops are so screwed up, another place to learn steal, if ya intend to make any sort of profit.

So due to how the elders have been <smitten>, the young won't have much guidance.

~Weak of arm,lousy roars;
terrible aim, awful health;
broken fingers, no real stealth;
leave em dead,cause you cant do more;
lost your coins,on the floor;
greetings! now you're out the door~
>

There's a difference between training, and training well. I could train everything I need in Crossing, but its not feasible, nor very practical. Its finding that balance of what you want/need, and for the majority of higher circle Thieves its away from crossing for 1 reason or another.


-Greg

I also agree than they need teaching, and I also agree that usually it's us "middle guys" that do it. I am almost 30th, but the reason I am not, is that I tend to sacrifice a lot of hard core training so I can be there to help out the rookies. I may not know all the ropes, but I do my homework keeping up with the boards really helps, and looking into the old code and all that isn't hard to do either) and ask elders that will give me the time of day. It's rather funny because sometimes I get into discussions in the Crossing guild and people always assume I am some high ranking veteran just from the way my character acts. (Perhaps it's because I role play...eh who knows) Anyway, A lot of the younger don't want to be helped unless it is a free ride. I remember when I was young, it took me a while just to find the crossing guild...and I've done just about everything 100% on my own from then on (This was my first and only DR character, so I still needed to find my way around) Although I did get a nudge in the right direction for Riverhaven...but never more than a nudge. I guess what I am saying here is there is a lack of communication everywhere. Young don't want to approach the elders and the elders don't want to deal with the young. We need to schedule more thiefly gatherings that are spread by word of mouth only, or at the novice nights. Speaking of which lack in attendance severely. We can't start repairing our guild if we can't collect all the pieces and fit them together.

Those who want free rides i ignore.

I make people EARN help by proving they arent stupid.

Like the Riverhaven thing.

There is a certain thing that i WISH i had of been told.. so that i wouldnt have pulled my hair out and got so frustraded over it.

I tell that small little tidbit to anyone asking. It isnt a secret, its more about the mechanics of how things work.. which.. is completely stupid in my opinion but then thats just me. Im stubborn enough that if i REALLY need to see a GL, i travel to Crossing and talk to the original GL.

That being said.. there is a happy medium out there. Some elders havent the foggiest idea where that is. They hear something that is unacceptable or questionable.. even in the safety of the guild and its "Shut up or die" then a bunch ass-kissing young ones with no actual courage jump on and "Ya ya ya!"
egg on this pillar of our guild <roll eyes> and then to prove that this 70+ circle thief is just THAT much of a hero.. he "enforces" the newbie by shooting and killing the person in the haven.

Yup, my hero. For nothing more than voicing an opinion and wondering why its thought of as a wrong opinion.
Then there are the folk who just hand things over to people with a map, compass, detailed 4-page instruction manuals and a trail of bird-seed.

There IS a happy medium. Help these people. Dont open the door for em.. but let them know with a hint where the door can be found.. let them work it out.

Then we come to kookies.. which in my opinion is handled very badly as well. Id like to know where and when. Just that simple because there is in fact, very little to look forward to in this guild other that those kookies.
I also dont have or want to waste the time.. galavanting all over elanthia every time i circle just to see IF i got something.

There doesnt need to be a list.. perhaps an IG way.. pay K a plat and he will tell you.. "Well, you are missing 2 important skills and i suggest going to talk to Joe and Mary about getting them taught to you.

Of if you ARE eligible for a kookie, you get told by whomever you are asking.. "I heard Frank wants to talk to you about something."

Its time consuming enough to just plain ole train these days without spending eternity going over all og God's back-40 looking for things that may or may not be there.

I was told a few things about kookies i have now before i was ready.. and it only made me MORE eager to get them.. which i did.

I still dont know everything about this guild and probably never will. I still take the ferry traveling to Leth, i still have a 3 in 5 chance of seeing the birds in haven and ive NEVER YET rememberd what the hell im supposed to do in Ratha.. all 4 times ive been there because its such a stupid syntax thing that i just go away angry and forget what i did.

Anywho, off track there.

You want to know an answer to a question that regards the guild and guild secrets and abilities? Make a few friends first, prove yourself and most people who know will clue you in with tidbits. Dont just barge into the haven at 2nd circle and say When can i get BLAHBLah and Can anyone show me where the BOOYAKA is.. or How do i get a FRANKFURTER from DAIRYQUEEN so i can talk to BORISHNIKOV.

Make friends.. let people who have been around 3 and 4 years or 50 and 60 circles get to know you.. get to see you are good people and you are solid and your word is to be trusted.. rise up through the ranks a bit.. you arent getting much before 10-20th anyways so relax.

I try to help people out as much as i can.. but if i dont know you.. why should i trust you? Ive made my bones already to myself and ive got nothing to prove to anyone in this guild.. sept that i can have more survival than Soim at his circle :) But i dont huk people up with plats till tomorrow, loan people my equipment, buy people ANYTHING, go trash talk the mages, go steal from paladins and make them chase us,go ferry-thugging.
I just hunt, pick boxes and steal when i have to <or see an irresistable mark> i dont like bullies or punks or anyone getting beat on 3 on 1 for no reason, and thats just me. I'll give advice.. it might not be right but its my advice.. I wont send kids to DS looking for whatever.

In some ways i dont look at it as OUR guild. I look at it as MY guild. I try to rep my guild as well as i can.. but that doesnt mean im an autotron spouting off memorized accolades about this leader and that leader. I am a free thinker, i make my OWN opinions and i wont be forced in a direction i dont want to go.

The newer folks need to be guided in the right direction. Use force when neccissary..but not only and always.

and never ramble.




" I am, the best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be." Brett 'The Hitman' Hart

~Dusk~

if you go running in and stabbing or thumping everyone that you think is bending the rules, then yes you're going to get warned or possibly locked out. Words work so much better than violence.

~Bre


"Mans only limitation is that he has no limitations" ~Bruce Lee 1941-1973

>>if you go running in and stabbing or thumping everyone that you think is bending the rules, then yes you're going to get warned or possibly locked out. Words work so much better than violence.


>Says you. Heh.


>Subai
~

I unfortunatly have seen this. There was a youngin in the guild awile back talking that we should bond together with the other guilds or something like that. Several of us tryed to exsplain things to him but he was like a broken record, saying the same thing over and over.

I will teach to those who will listen, everyone else I'll stab


~A voice from the shadows

---

You have no chance at hiding from a ship's rat.
Fear the rat!

Excerpt from "Chronicles of a Commoner"...
"I sat apart from the others, head down, eyes averted, mouth closed. Few seemed to notice I was there at all, and any who did quickly lost interest upon discovering that lint and crumbs were the extent of my immediate wealth. I did not have much to say, and anything I might have offered into the constant stream of conversation was eventually stated by someone with previously established authority in the topic of discussion. There was no need to state my position on any matter, particularly if I happened to contradict the opinion of someone older and presumably more knowledgable. Perhaps that made me a coward. Perhaps. If the instinct of self-preservation is the solitary mechanism of cowardice, then the number of dead heroes requires no further explanation.
"I was no smarter than anyone else, but I knew this place well enough. I had seen bolt-perforated bodies drop for little more than a sideways glance, and that made me a pretty quick study in the art of minding my own business. Brotherhood, it seemed, came bundled with a generous helping of sibling rivalry, and enough older siblings willing to share a taste of it with anyone who seemed needy. Not everyone who was treated to a bit of Brotherly love knew precisely why they had been chosen to receive such affection, but I observed one common trait among those I had witnessed: they demonstrated great facility with the operation of their mouths, but comparitively little with their ears. This was the way of things, and had been since long before anyone seemed able to recall. Discretion was a small fee to expect from any who knew of this place, and those who would not pay soon found themselves with debts of far greater excess.
"A gruff man with a wide scar across his cheek approached from an adjoining hallway, pausing near the entrance. I kept my head down, but took note of his movements out of the corner of my eye. Clearly someone of authority within the Brotherhood, he scanned the room for a moment with a deepening scowl, his disgust becoming increasingly evident. 'Those of you who wish to become Enforcers of the Code,' he bellowed, 'follow me.' He turned and strode briskly away, and with a thunderous roar of triumph that rose from the assembled brethren, the room quickly emptied into the hallway behind him.
"Doubtful of any possible contribution I could make to the quickly receding tide of frenzied, crossbow-waving Enforcer hopefuls, I took my pipe from my pouch, lit it, and leaned back against a nearby table. I could not remember the last time it was so quiet in the gathering hall, and I blew a series of smoke rings into the undisturbed air, watching them expand into nothingness.
"There was certainly no shortage of those willing to drive home the fine points of the Code, provided those points were on the tip of a crossbow bolt. What I found myself wondering was how anyone might be expected to know if they were in breach of the Code if the only way to be certain was to perform some type of action, or speak up about a some subject, and count the number of crossbow bolts embedded in your torso afterward. Perhaps the Code was not without its flaws, but I reasoned that if a concept could be Enforced, it could likely be Encouraged as well. Such things were not for me to decide, and Enforcement had always been the Law. This was no place for the weak, and Enforcement had proven itself an effective deterrent against those who would find only struggle and failure within its walls. Culling the herd was the only real way to preserve it, and those defects that were removed were necessary sacrifices.
"Lost for a moment between my thoughts and the steady draw and orange glow of my pipe, I started at the sudden arrival of a stranger. A glance told me enough about her -- a novice with the wide-eyed, frightened, dazed stare of one who just wandered in off the street. I'd seen that look often enough to know it fades quickly in these corridors, replaced by piercing, darting glances and a tensed, ready posture. Turning my pipe around between my thumb and forefinger, I pointed the long stem at her menacingly and said, 'Look here, girlie.' I sprang to my feet and tucked away my pipe. 'There are a few things you'll want to know.'
"I clamped my hand over her mouth and lead her out of the area, finally stopping in the middle of a long passage. 'You see that?' I asked, pointing north. After a moment, she nodded as much as I expect she could. 'You see that?' I asked, then pointing south. She nodded again. 'Good, because those are the only things keeping you alive at the moment, and don't forget it. If you have a lapse in memory, there are about thirty people with crossbows whose company I just left, and they will come looking for you. I don't claim to know their business, but safe money says you won't like whatever happens to you in their care.' I took my hand away from her mouth. 'Got anything to say?'
"She looked at me for a moment, shook her head, and pointed north."

>You people do realize this is the "In Character" Thief folder, yes?

Give that guy a cookie.. Folks, this is an In Character folder.. try it, ya might like it.


Shakahn

---

Thieves respect property; they merely wish the property to become their property that they may more perfectly respect it.
-- (The Man Who Was Thursday, 1908)

Of course we should "bond" wit otha guilds.

We should get all close and snuggle up to em an den remove wutevers in they pockits without 'em bein da wiser. Capeesh?

Schvartz


~Weak of arm,lousy roars;
terrible aim, awful health;
broken fingers, no real stealth;
leave em dead,cause you cant do more; lost your coins,on the floor;
greetings! now you're out the door~
>

Haha,..I dig it Ven!

~Nakeeta

heh, vrulle shot his crossbow at everyone i think. very anti-social, that one.

i lived to tell the tale, partly because in those days I wore one of those plumed helms <HP> i stole from riverhaven.... <G>

ahhh, the days when armor wasn't so severely penalized, and thieves weren't cubby-holed into "you must wear leather. you can't do this, you must not do that.".

schvartz


~Weak of arm, lousy roars;
terrible aim, awful health;
broken fingers, no real stealth;
leave em dead, cause you cant do more; lost your coins, on the floor;
greetings! now you're out the door~
>

The ways I see it, there's only one lesson the young need to be mentored, and that's shut up. Don't talk, be secret, there is no guild. Now, way I figure, the Big K explains that to everybody when they join, so really, how much more mentoring do they need, eh?


The Alley Cat

Isn't that why there are Mentor Thief Novice Nights?

---

Give a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for a day.

Set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
- Terry Pratchett, 'Jingo'

<<Isn't that why there are Mentor Thief Novice Nights?>>

Yes, because for the most part, everyone else just kills them.

~Fillia, Master of the Cupcake

"Muhyoujou na itoshii hito yo
Doukamada kuruwazu ni ite ne" -Kirito

>>Yes, because for the most part, everyone else just kills them.

I agree.

Need a babelfish for DragonRealms?

http://www.bakshiloa.com/libraryindex.html

Some folks is kind, some folks isn't. I've seen dead eyes on the faces of legends. I've met real cordial people with calm clear voices. Some tells me things, useful things. Others dismisses me as some uppity youngster. Most sits about, silent like. I may be from Knife, but I'm no fool.

They should be examples. They shouldn't be focused on inappropriate talk, but on being examples in the business. Then they have status to me.

I wrote this, I did.

Chanchu