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>We skew perception so that individuals imagine illusions, rather than the illusions being visible to all personnel in the area. Though there are some cases where we do make sparkly things happen in the air(Nexus, Naga's Blessing, etc) but those are less illusions and more side effects of the songs.
Bardic illusions probably skew more towards creation of hard-light actual objects, than true illusion in the sense traders are getting. More similar to MM illusion I would assume. Isn't Aether Wolves technically an illusion spell?
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
>>On the flip side, traders just don't get that whole tkt thing or teleportation. They just don't make sense to them.
TKT absolutely makes sense for Traders. Our only actual offensive ability at the moment is basically a copy of TKT, where you throw a tiny projectile at a ridiculous speed (except it stuns instead of deals damage). Even going with the "supernatural bordering on magic" suggestions for Trader Magic 3.0, some version of TKT and telekinetic storm were natural fits (where the projectile would have to be coin(s) that were in our pocket, and would cost us money). Also it sounds like this is planned to be an integral part of the Fabrication tree (mentioned as "producing deadly darts"). I sort of hope they keep the flavor of making it cost money to use, but I also hope they don't because it's a pain in the butt. Can't decide
I definitely agree on teleportation. Doesn't make sense in any form similar to what MMs currently have, although I could maybe see something like being able to "teleport" to the location of our Caravan (which would sort of be more like Ranger scouting than MM teleporting). And one ability that I really hope we get is the ability to make our caravan "teleport" to our location if it has no crates on it - that is sort of teleportation-related but doesn't step on MM toes at all imo
The main thing though where it makes sense for Traders to get a very similar copy of an iconic MM ability is predictions, except self-only. Being "masters of appraisal" should definitely lend itself to being able to focus on analyzing your performance at a particular skill and then enhancing your results beyond your base skill ranks would have allowed. This has already been discussed in great detail about why this makes sense for Traders, and it seems like Socharis was referring to this in the Negotiation spellbook
>>It would be interesting if Traders were still ICly NMUs but are able to use jewelry to channel sunlight/moonlight into causing magical effects.
People seem down on this idea, although I could see this working fine, where mechanically everything works the same as "real magic", but the IC messaging is worded as if we are using devices. So instead of prep spell 10 = "Apu raises his arms and chants like a monk who forgot to honor his vow of poverty", you might do prep spell 10 = "Apu fiddles with his platinum-inlaid, animite-encrusted golden elephant trinket studded with diamonds, rubies and emeralds", and then have some similarly ostentatiously gaudy messaging for harness, target, cast, etc. Doesn't really matter what the messaging is as long as the mechanics are the same, and as long as the spells are powerful
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
TKT absolutely makes sense for Traders. Our only actual offensive ability at the moment is basically a copy of TKT, where you throw a tiny projectile at a ridiculous speed (except it stuns instead of deals damage). Even going with the "supernatural bordering on magic" suggestions for Trader Magic 3.0, some version of TKT and telekinetic storm were natural fits (where the projectile would have to be coin(s) that were in our pocket, and would cost us money). Also it sounds like this is planned to be an integral part of the Fabrication tree (mentioned as "producing deadly darts"). I sort of hope they keep the flavor of making it cost money to use, but I also hope they don't because it's a pain in the butt. Can't decide
I definitely agree on teleportation. Doesn't make sense in any form similar to what MMs currently have, although I could maybe see something like being able to "teleport" to the location of our Caravan (which would sort of be more like Ranger scouting than MM teleporting). And one ability that I really hope we get is the ability to make our caravan "teleport" to our location if it has no crates on it - that is sort of teleportation-related but doesn't step on MM toes at all imo
The main thing though where it makes sense for Traders to get a very similar copy of an iconic MM ability is predictions, except self-only. Being "masters of appraisal" should definitely lend itself to being able to focus on analyzing your performance at a particular skill and then enhancing your results beyond your base skill ranks would have allowed. This has already been discussed in great detail about why this makes sense for Traders, and it seems like Socharis was referring to this in the Negotiation spellbook
>>It would be interesting if Traders were still ICly NMUs but are able to use jewelry to channel sunlight/moonlight into causing magical effects.
People seem down on this idea, although I could see this working fine, where mechanically everything works the same as "real magic", but the IC messaging is worded as if we are using devices. So instead of prep spell 10 = "Apu raises his arms and chants like a monk who forgot to honor his vow of poverty", you might do prep spell 10 = "Apu fiddles with his platinum-inlaid, animite-encrusted golden elephant trinket studded with diamonds, rubies and emeralds", and then have some similarly ostentatiously gaudy messaging for harness, target, cast, etc. Doesn't really matter what the messaging is as long as the mechanics are the same, and as long as the spells are powerful
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
Wow!
I am seriously floored. I spent all of yesterday (and much of today), telling myself over and over again that it was an April Fools.
To find out it isn't? Let's just say I'm pretty delighted! Especially since the only guild I've ever played (or had interest in playing) in DR is Trader. This expands the guild in so many possable directions!
It's going to be very interesting to watch the information and ideas around this evolve!
-Echelonia
I am seriously floored. I spent all of yesterday (and much of today), telling myself over and over again that it was an April Fools.
To find out it isn't? Let's just say I'm pretty delighted! Especially since the only guild I've ever played (or had interest in playing) in DR is Trader. This expands the guild in so many possable directions!
It's going to be very interesting to watch the information and ideas around this evolve!
-Echelonia
Ahaha this is great fun as it introduces another guild to learn in battle and combat against :3
I truly hope this creates some powerful Traders that enjoy fighting!
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
I truly hope this creates some powerful Traders that enjoy fighting!
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
>Post 1214
>Paragraph 1
Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of it basically making darts we could throw with LT. Kind of like Steelstars. Either way, weapon or TM skill, it'll be a tert, so not exactly something spectacularly game-changing.
>Paragraph 2
I would agree on the former, but not the latter. Believe it was Armifer who stated that the tasks of making a MG big enough for a caravan is just physically beyond a single spellcaster. (Though I could have sworn way, WAY back when that caravans could go through MG)
>Paragraph 3
Now this I entirely disagree with, as stepping too much on MM toes. Got to keep in mind that Astrology is the MM Guild-only skill, will soon become a primary skill for them, and is going to have to be used for predictions.
I'm thinking that MM will be seers and psychics and masters of mental domination (and pure arcane annihilation, at least compared to Traders, with their TM spells), using their inherent link to the Plane of Probability for predictions, yada yada. While Traders approach it from a more "every day" perspective, using a more common sense approach with a business/political leaning. If DR was a university, think physics students vs. (modern) liberal arts and business majors. The former are more into theory about how it all works, the other is more applied.
I hadn't thought about the navigation by stars approach until someone brought it up earlier, but I do like that too. Obviously MM are aware of the 3-dimensional nature of constellations based on lore behind Enchanting, but to a person on earth in medieval times for comparison to DR, they appear flat and unchanging and usable for navigation. That might be worth investigating, particularly since we do know that some constellations are in the north, some are in the south. I just don't know where Traders would go with that, since most of our stuff is pretty much "Yo, driver/pilot, go to (destination)".
>Paragraph 4
Anything involving gems and jewelry I'm all for. I don't really care what it is, does, or how brokenly OP or useless it is.
>~Leilond
We can has spreadsheet updates? (Not that I really need to since I'm so close to 100th I just go with that).
Naniaki
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
>Paragraph 1
Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of it basically making darts we could throw with LT. Kind of like Steelstars. Either way, weapon or TM skill, it'll be a tert, so not exactly something spectacularly game-changing.
>Paragraph 2
I would agree on the former, but not the latter. Believe it was Armifer who stated that the tasks of making a MG big enough for a caravan is just physically beyond a single spellcaster. (Though I could have sworn way, WAY back when that caravans could go through MG)
>Paragraph 3
Now this I entirely disagree with, as stepping too much on MM toes. Got to keep in mind that Astrology is the MM Guild-only skill, will soon become a primary skill for them, and is going to have to be used for predictions.
I'm thinking that MM will be seers and psychics and masters of mental domination (and pure arcane annihilation, at least compared to Traders, with their TM spells), using their inherent link to the Plane of Probability for predictions, yada yada. While Traders approach it from a more "every day" perspective, using a more common sense approach with a business/political leaning. If DR was a university, think physics students vs. (modern) liberal arts and business majors. The former are more into theory about how it all works, the other is more applied.
I hadn't thought about the navigation by stars approach until someone brought it up earlier, but I do like that too. Obviously MM are aware of the 3-dimensional nature of constellations based on lore behind Enchanting, but to a person on earth in medieval times for comparison to DR, they appear flat and unchanging and usable for navigation. That might be worth investigating, particularly since we do know that some constellations are in the north, some are in the south. I just don't know where Traders would go with that, since most of our stuff is pretty much "Yo, driver/pilot, go to (destination)".
>Paragraph 4
Anything involving gems and jewelry I'm all for. I don't really care what it is, does, or how brokenly OP or useless it is.
>~Leilond
We can has spreadsheet updates? (Not that I really need to since I'm so close to 100th I just go with that).
Naniaki
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
>Paragraph 2
>>I would agree on the former, but not the latter. Believe it was Armifer who stated that the tasks of making a MG big enough for a caravan is just physically beyond a single spellcaster. (Though I could have sworn way, WAY back when that caravans could go through MG)
Laziest quoting method ever! I think you're responding to my post though?
If so, then in one case my idea had nothing to do with transporting a caravan, it was about transporting the Trader to the spot that your caravan is at. Even that is admittedly a stretch because it would pretty much be a ripoff of Teleport, where positioning your caravan would be the equivalent of setting a moonbeam (except with a 10 plat fine if you don't go back to feed your moonbeam). It sounds kinda neat to always be connected to your caravan like a traveling hearthstone, but it's not all that great an idea or anything
In the other version, that would indeed involve moving a caravan but the actual magical portion would just be more like a telepathic link between the Trader and his animals (or to be more lame but maybe more realistic, between the Trader and his caravan driver), and then a few minute wait before the caravan shows up while it "travels" (much like a familiar traveling to locate someone). I think it would be fair to believe that a caravan could travel much faster than normal if it had no crates on it (and this restriction is also necessary so that contract/commod trading wouldn't be a joke).
I would really LOVE to see the ability to telepathically call an unloaded caravan to my location. It would be an absolutely tremendous quality of life improvement that would allow using a caravan while hunting. It's something that we already can do by just moving the caravan manually, but that's such a pain in the ass to manage that basically no one ever bothers, which is a shame - training all 7 armor types to take advantage of being Armor Secondary sure would be a hell of a lot easier with a storage box at my side. It would make for a great esoteric ritual Utility spell imo
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
>>I would agree on the former, but not the latter. Believe it was Armifer who stated that the tasks of making a MG big enough for a caravan is just physically beyond a single spellcaster. (Though I could have sworn way, WAY back when that caravans could go through MG)
Laziest quoting method ever! I think you're responding to my post though?
If so, then in one case my idea had nothing to do with transporting a caravan, it was about transporting the Trader to the spot that your caravan is at. Even that is admittedly a stretch because it would pretty much be a ripoff of Teleport, where positioning your caravan would be the equivalent of setting a moonbeam (except with a 10 plat fine if you don't go back to feed your moonbeam). It sounds kinda neat to always be connected to your caravan like a traveling hearthstone, but it's not all that great an idea or anything
In the other version, that would indeed involve moving a caravan but the actual magical portion would just be more like a telepathic link between the Trader and his animals (or to be more lame but maybe more realistic, between the Trader and his caravan driver), and then a few minute wait before the caravan shows up while it "travels" (much like a familiar traveling to locate someone). I think it would be fair to believe that a caravan could travel much faster than normal if it had no crates on it (and this restriction is also necessary so that contract/commod trading wouldn't be a joke).
I would really LOVE to see the ability to telepathically call an unloaded caravan to my location. It would be an absolutely tremendous quality of life improvement that would allow using a caravan while hunting. It's something that we already can do by just moving the caravan manually, but that's such a pain in the ass to manage that basically no one ever bothers, which is a shame - training all 7 armor types to take advantage of being Armor Secondary sure would be a hell of a lot easier with a storage box at my side. It would make for a great esoteric ritual Utility spell imo
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
I would point out that moving an unloaded caravan all over the mainland is quite easy already. Return empty caravan to guild. Catch moon beam to distant point on mainland. Rent caravan at guild. Voila. I don't see how a "magic ability" that enabled empty caravans to travel steps on anybody's toes or changes the status qou all that much.
>>I could maybe see something like being able to "teleport" to the location of our Caravan (which would sort of be more like Ranger scouting than MM teleporting). And one ability that I really ho
TBH, if this ever happens it will probably be a mundane ability. There's no reason to add magic (beyond some supernatural bond with your donkeys) to taking you to it or the other way around. Or, as you mention in a later post, some manner of psychic locational stuff that's less refined than the MM toys.
>>Especially since the only guild I've ever played (or had interest in playing) in DR is Trader.
I think this is the first time those words have ever been put in that order. My congratulations. :-D
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
TBH, if this ever happens it will probably be a mundane ability. There's no reason to add magic (beyond some supernatural bond with your donkeys) to taking you to it or the other way around. Or, as you mention in a later post, some manner of psychic locational stuff that's less refined than the MM toys.
>>Especially since the only guild I've ever played (or had interest in playing) in DR is Trader.
I think this is the first time those words have ever been put in that order. My congratulations. :-D
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
>>I would point out that moving an unloaded caravan all over the mainland is quite easy already. Return empty caravan to guild. Catch moon beam to distant point on mainland. Rent caravan at guild. Voila. I don't see how a "magic ability" that enabled empty caravans to travel steps on anybody's toes or changes the status qou all that much.
That actually doesn't work at all if you use your storage box (and if you don't use your storage box, ur doin Trader rong). Also I'm not sure if that works with a POC - anyone know? I've never even attempted to return a caravan since well before POCs came out, so I actually have no idea if you can return a POC or whether those have to be stabled as well
Even if for some reason you have an empty storage box, hunting grounds tend to not be right next to places that you can rent a caravan, so even then it is a huge pain in the ass to manually walk it back and forth every hunting trip
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
That actually doesn't work at all if you use your storage box (and if you don't use your storage box, ur doin Trader rong). Also I'm not sure if that works with a POC - anyone know? I've never even attempted to return a caravan since well before POCs came out, so I actually have no idea if you can return a POC or whether those have to be stabled as well
Even if for some reason you have an empty storage box, hunting grounds tend to not be right next to places that you can rent a caravan, so even then it is a huge pain in the ass to manually walk it back and forth every hunting trip
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
>>Or, as you mention in a later post, some manner of psychic locational stuff that's less refined than the MM toys.
Well actually it could just be justified right now with a new hireling ability, I'm not picky
(although I like the telepathic connection to our POC animals, that's cool)
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
Well actually it could just be justified right now with a new hireling ability, I'm not picky
(although I like the telepathic connection to our POC animals, that's cool)
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
>>> That actually doesn't work at all if you use your storage box (and if you don't use your storage box
Painfully aware of this sir, trying to hammer down an organizational system now as it's contents exploded with new leather. I inferred, wrongly, when you said "no crates" that the state you were describing included "also an empty storage box." My bad. I'd kill for even a mundane way to have my caravan follow me on it's own with just my storage box on it.
Painfully aware of this sir, trying to hammer down an organizational system now as it's contents exploded with new leather. I inferred, wrongly, when you said "no crates" that the state you were describing included "also an empty storage box." My bad. I'd kill for even a mundane way to have my caravan follow me on it's own with just my storage box on it.
>>I inferred, wrongly, when you said "no crates" that the state you were describing included "also an empty storage box."
Yeah I was just thinking the main thing is you definitely need a restriction so that trading contracts wouldn't become: ask for contract, run to next outpost in 5 seconds, call caravan, turn in contract, repeat - that would obviously be silly. Storage boxes don't impact contract/commod trading so think those are fair to have on a caravan while moving it quickly
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
Yeah I was just thinking the main thing is you definitely need a restriction so that trading contracts wouldn't become: ask for contract, run to next outpost in 5 seconds, call caravan, turn in contract, repeat - that would obviously be silly. Storage boxes don't impact contract/commod trading so think those are fair to have on a caravan while moving it quickly
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
>Laziest quoting method ever! I think you're responding to my post though?
Yeah, I was quoting you. Didn't feel like quoting your entire post to dissect, as I felt it would have been too lengthy. I originally was planning to paraphrase the quotes by topic of each paragraph but yeah, got lazy.
>you use your storage box (and if you don't use your storage box, ur doin Trader rong)
I don't use my storage box. :)
I have in the past, once, but didn't feel like paying the fee to take it in/out of stabling, the upkeep to keep my caravan stabled, or keep babying it when I did haveit out.
>I've never even attempted to return a caravan since well before POCs came out, so I actually have no idea if you can return a POC or whether those have to be stabled as well
I'm pretty sure (as sure as one can be without actually owning a POC), that the POC is your default caravan and you can return it and rent it back.
Looking it up, Arnimas' teaser post on it says they can be returned. (Trader GM Announcement 243)
>I'd kill for even a mundane way to have my caravan follow me on it's own with just my storage box on it.
I probably would too, the functionality of basically a Shadow Servant is beyond esteem. I regularly load up a shadow servant with 7-11 tied bundles, and carry 2 of my own before leaving a hunting ground every couple of days to sell. (Granted I go through the Ways across provinces which makes it a little risky, hence something to not do at the drop of a hat).
Perhaps caravans could be coded to work like a shadow servant when they don't have a shipping crate, and like a typical caravan when they do.
Naniaki
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
Yeah, I was quoting you. Didn't feel like quoting your entire post to dissect, as I felt it would have been too lengthy. I originally was planning to paraphrase the quotes by topic of each paragraph but yeah, got lazy.
>you use your storage box (and if you don't use your storage box, ur doin Trader rong)
I don't use my storage box. :)
I have in the past, once, but didn't feel like paying the fee to take it in/out of stabling, the upkeep to keep my caravan stabled, or keep babying it when I did haveit out.
>I've never even attempted to return a caravan since well before POCs came out, so I actually have no idea if you can return a POC or whether those have to be stabled as well
I'm pretty sure (as sure as one can be without actually owning a POC), that the POC is your default caravan and you can return it and rent it back.
Looking it up, Arnimas' teaser post on it says they can be returned. (Trader GM Announcement 243)
>I'd kill for even a mundane way to have my caravan follow me on it's own with just my storage box on it.
I probably would too, the functionality of basically a Shadow Servant is beyond esteem. I regularly load up a shadow servant with 7-11 tied bundles, and carry 2 of my own before leaving a hunting ground every couple of days to sell. (Granted I go through the Ways across provinces which makes it a little risky, hence something to not do at the drop of a hat).
Perhaps caravans could be coded to work like a shadow servant when they don't have a shipping crate, and like a typical caravan when they do.
Naniaki
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
Having known Xip and his wife <a very skilled Moon Mage> years ago, I'd attribute it to her teaching him lunar magic, then he just spread it to all the other traders, including some of the guildleaders. :-)
He did have very nice ranks in magic from her teaching him constantly, by the way.
And I still want to see Kssarh jump out of his tower....
[Uzmam] "<chat>" "what you seem to not realize is that I'd love for Uzmam to be outed. That way she could have Divult finally apprentice her and I could learn those slips"
He did have very nice ranks in magic from her teaching him constantly, by the way.
And I still want to see Kssarh jump out of his tower....
[Uzmam] "<chat>" "what you seem to not realize is that I'd love for Uzmam to be outed. That way she could have Divult finally apprentice her and I could learn those slips"
because I don't think staff will EVER be okay with caravans that travels faster than they do and possibly skip over boundaries they weren't intended to, etc etc.
hehe. you climb up a tree. your caravan follows you.
mountain-climbing yaks, thats the story, and i'm sticking to it...
[Uzmam] "<chat>" "what you seem to not realize is that I'd love for Uzmam to be outed. That way she could have Divult finally apprentice her and I could learn those slips"
hehe. you climb up a tree. your caravan follows you.
mountain-climbing yaks, thats the story, and i'm sticking to it...
[Uzmam] "<chat>" "what you seem to not realize is that I'd love for Uzmam to be outed. That way she could have Divult finally apprentice her and I could learn those slips"
IMO, I don't think Traders have a "this is what the guild is about"-level of connection to traveling. It seems more like Traders fell into having to travel a lot by the nature of caravans being the staple way to learn Trading for so long.
As more ways to learn Trading come out, I think the usage of caravans to the point of "look, we're all about traveling with caravans!" will decrease, sans situations like Apu cited where Traders are taking advantage of the extra storage space they provide.
>>I would really LOVE to see the ability to telepathically call an unloaded caravan to my location. It would be an absolutely tremendous quality of life improvement that would allow using a caravan while hunting.
Maybe caravans can be linked up to the pet system, which might be linked to COMMAND like the way mudmen/zombies are. So all you'd have to do is have whatever working (or just a natural ability) and COMMAND CARAVAN TO COME or something. It seems like the most reasonable setup.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
As more ways to learn Trading come out, I think the usage of caravans to the point of "look, we're all about traveling with caravans!" will decrease, sans situations like Apu cited where Traders are taking advantage of the extra storage space they provide.
>>I would really LOVE to see the ability to telepathically call an unloaded caravan to my location. It would be an absolutely tremendous quality of life improvement that would allow using a caravan while hunting.
Maybe caravans can be linked up to the pet system, which might be linked to COMMAND like the way mudmen/zombies are. So all you'd have to do is have whatever working (or just a natural ability) and COMMAND CARAVAN TO COME or something. It seems like the most reasonable setup.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
>because I don't think staff will EVER be okay with caravans that travels faster than they do and possibly skip over boundaries they weren't intended to, etc etc.
Suppose a caravan following me into a closet might be a bit much. :)
However, I disagree on caravans traveling faster than people like shadow servants. A really burdened shadow servant can take minutes to travel just a few rooms in Crossing. This is, however, influenced by skill and/or mana (I know skill does, not sure on the mana).
Naniaki
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
Suppose a caravan following me into a closet might be a bit much. :)
However, I disagree on caravans traveling faster than people like shadow servants. A really burdened shadow servant can take minutes to travel just a few rooms in Crossing. This is, however, influenced by skill and/or mana (I know skill does, not sure on the mana).
Naniaki
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
>>Illusion magic is largely moon dependent. A light-giving moon (Xibar or Yavash) needs to be up for most of the spells to work.
Does this mean that the moon just has to be in the sky, or that we will have to be able to see the moon? Basically asking if these kinds of spells will work indoors.
Abison/Rystien
Does this mean that the moon just has to be in the sky, or that we will have to be able to see the moon? Basically asking if these kinds of spells will work indoors.
Abison/Rystien
>>Does this mean that the moon just has to be in the sky, or that we will have to be able to see the moon? Basically asking if these kinds of spells will work indoors.
I'm not sure yet - It'll depend on how we implement it.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
I'm not sure yet - It'll depend on how we implement it.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
>>Or, as you mention in a later post, some manner of psychic locational stuff that's less refined than the MM toys.
>Well actually it could just be justified right now with a new hireling ability, I'm not picky
Isn't there already a hireling locate ability? A couple weeks ago I was looking to do some business with a trader and just before they walked in I saw something like one of the atmospheric messages in the plaza, which looks like it might have been a hireling.
>>I think this is the first time those words have ever been put in that order. My congratulations. :-D<<
I will admit I have bounced back and forth over the years between GS and DR. The recent release of crafting and the upcoming Mech Lore split at long last is what lured me back, because of the tremendous RP avenues I felt that it would open up in playing a Trader! The future introduction of the Trader Magic system just amplifies that incrementally!
Having become so disenchanted with the lack of flexibility in GS (being wholly build based vs skill based) I'm so pleased I've come back to DR at what seems to be the perfect time to create a character for the long, long haul. :D
-Echelonia
I will admit I have bounced back and forth over the years between GS and DR. The recent release of crafting and the upcoming Mech Lore split at long last is what lured me back, because of the tremendous RP avenues I felt that it would open up in playing a Trader! The future introduction of the Trader Magic system just amplifies that incrementally!
Having become so disenchanted with the lack of flexibility in GS (being wholly build based vs skill based) I'm so pleased I've come back to DR at what seems to be the perfect time to create a character for the long, long haul. :D
-Echelonia
Just some notes...
>>[Shadow servant movement] is, however, influenced by skill and/or mana (I know skill does, not sure on the mana).
Mana certainly influences it. I haven't noticed skill influence my servant in the slightest, except to fit more items into it and be able to cast at a higher amount.
>>Back in the good old days caravans could go through Moon Gates
Caravans can still go through moon gates at select locations, unless this bug was fixed. A friend and I reported this a few months ago.
-- Player of Eyuve
>>[Shadow servant movement] is, however, influenced by skill and/or mana (I know skill does, not sure on the mana).
Mana certainly influences it. I haven't noticed skill influence my servant in the slightest, except to fit more items into it and be able to cast at a higher amount.
>>Back in the good old days caravans could go through Moon Gates
Caravans can still go through moon gates at select locations, unless this bug was fixed. A friend and I reported this a few months ago.
-- Player of Eyuve
>Mana certainly influences it. I haven't noticed skill influence my servant in the slightest, except to fit more items into it and be able to cast at a higher amount.
I have the fortune of access to a 69th MM (though I started using Servant around 54 or so), and a 139th MM. And the servant of the 139th MM, despite being considerably loaded more (thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of stones), updates its location more often than the servant of the 66th MM when burdened with only a few hundred stones of stuff. I only ever use min prep cast on servants.
In the same way, I notice a difference between rejuvenating with a 15th circle cleric, a 30th circle cleric (barely meeting the magic reqs) and rejuvenating with a 62nd cleric (with magics more around 80th circle). The first isn't equipped to even compare to the other two, but my rejuv script is the same with the higher ones. And I find it takes more min+12 mana casts to move through the aura ranges to get to a silver aura. Likewise with the actual act of Resurrection.
Granted, I don't think a difference would be noticeable with just a 10 circle gap or a 50 rank difference, but I'm talking more like the differences between 150 and 450 PM, or 400 PM and 1000 PM, using the same mana amounts.
Naniaki
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
I have the fortune of access to a 69th MM (though I started using Servant around 54 or so), and a 139th MM. And the servant of the 139th MM, despite being considerably loaded more (thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of stones), updates its location more often than the servant of the 66th MM when burdened with only a few hundred stones of stuff. I only ever use min prep cast on servants.
In the same way, I notice a difference between rejuvenating with a 15th circle cleric, a 30th circle cleric (barely meeting the magic reqs) and rejuvenating with a 62nd cleric (with magics more around 80th circle). The first isn't equipped to even compare to the other two, but my rejuv script is the same with the higher ones. And I find it takes more min+12 mana casts to move through the aura ranges to get to a silver aura. Likewise with the actual act of Resurrection.
Granted, I don't think a difference would be noticeable with just a 10 circle gap or a 50 rank difference, but I'm talking more like the differences between 150 and 450 PM, or 400 PM and 1000 PM, using the same mana amounts.
Naniaki
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
>>I think Traders and Moon Mages would do well, at this point, to assume we will share little more than attunement to lunar mana and an inevitable love of all things red, blue, and black. There was a subtle reference to the forceful manipulation of luck (Teleologic Sorcery) in the post which piqued my curiosity wondering how Traders would interact with such magic without a connection to the Plane of Probability, but I know They will figure something out.
I'd just like to Echo this. As much as I actually look forward to having more lunar users, it would be wise not to view it as getting the abilities of a moon mage. Much like Bards share Elemental Magic with Warrior Mages there is only a themetic similarity between them and very little else. Although I look forward to see what kind of abilities come out of Cthulu-verse Lite.
Also, Moon Mages don't make illusions. This is a misnomer. Moon Mages make hard light(or shadow) constructs, any illusionary effect of our spells is purely a secondary feature. For example the shimmering globe of fire around shear.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga
I'd just like to Echo this. As much as I actually look forward to having more lunar users, it would be wise not to view it as getting the abilities of a moon mage. Much like Bards share Elemental Magic with Warrior Mages there is only a themetic similarity between them and very little else. Although I look forward to see what kind of abilities come out of Cthulu-verse Lite.
Also, Moon Mages don't make illusions. This is a misnomer. Moon Mages make hard light(or shadow) constructs, any illusionary effect of our spells is purely a secondary feature. For example the shimmering globe of fire around shear.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga
>>...[Shadow servant] updates its location more often than the servant of the 66th MM when burdened with only a few hundred stones of stuff. I only ever use min prep cast on servants.
Cool, thanks for the data. I only ever use max prep, and it blinks to me so quickly I've never seen a difference.
-- Player of Eyuve
Cool, thanks for the data. I only ever use max prep, and it blinks to me so quickly I've never seen a difference.
-- Player of Eyuve
<<the original Shapeshifter made a killing at trading and money until the GMs put a stop to it.>>
actually the caravan itself didn't go thru moongates. originally when you removed a crate from the caravan the crate was still intact and with enough strength, you could run the crates yourself to the outpost without the caravan. So he'd get
a contract to Leth Deriel, pull the crate off the caravan, and his pal would gate him there, he'd drop the crate where the caravan would normally stand, and voila. money.
[Uzmam] "<chat>" "what you seem to not realize is that I'd love for Uzmam to be outed. That way she could have Divult finally apprentice her and I could learn those slips"
actually the caravan itself didn't go thru moongates. originally when you removed a crate from the caravan the crate was still intact and with enough strength, you could run the crates yourself to the outpost without the caravan. So he'd get
a contract to Leth Deriel, pull the crate off the caravan, and his pal would gate him there, he'd drop the crate where the caravan would normally stand, and voila. money.
[Uzmam] "<chat>" "what you seem to not realize is that I'd love for Uzmam to be outed. That way she could have Divult finally apprentice her and I could learn those slips"
I think it's cool that Traders are getting .... lunar magic. I always thought Traders would do better as Treasure Hunters akin to Indian Jones awhile also trading. Maybe this will push them in the right direction. So make cool lunar magic stuff with Traders and loot etc.
Chance to find double gems? Yes pls.
Also... How are you going to write in the fact that moon mages will not have access to trader Lunar magic when MM are the end/all be all of lunar magic?
Chance to find double gems? Yes pls.
Also... How are you going to write in the fact that moon mages will not have access to trader Lunar magic when MM are the end/all be all of lunar magic?
How are you going to write in the fact that moon mages will not have access to trader Lunar magic when MM are the end/all be all of lunar magic
more or less the same way war mages will not have access to bardic enchantes when MM are the end/all of elemental magic?
And both rangers and empaths have life but rangers can kill living stuff, whereas empaths only can kill constructs without suffering shock.
Different focus for different guilds.
[Uzmam] "<chat>" "what you seem to not realize is that I'd love for Uzmam to be outed. That way she could have Divult finally apprentice her and I could learn those slips"
more or less the same way war mages will not have access to bardic enchantes when MM are the end/all of elemental magic?
And both rangers and empaths have life but rangers can kill living stuff, whereas empaths only can kill constructs without suffering shock.
Different focus for different guilds.
[Uzmam] "<chat>" "what you seem to not realize is that I'd love for Uzmam to be outed. That way she could have Divult finally apprentice her and I could learn those slips"
>>>I would really LOVE to see the ability to telepathically call an unloaded caravan to my location.<<<<<
I know I am a little late jumping into the discussion, but I am truly enjoying the direction that things are taking, and like Brynnhilde will do whatever is necessary to advance in the guild. I like the idea that this too will give us more options as a trader to pursue. The suggestion for being able to call for our caravan would be fantastic, whether it is by mundane ability (stable boy or hireling) or magical. This is my biggest pain running routes. In real life if I have a guest knock at the door, go to answer it and 'quit' the game, it's not like being able to retreat and quit in a hunting ground. I have to either lead the caravan to the nearest stable or let it starve and die. I'd also like the ability to be able to summon a hireling to take the caravan to the nearest stable for pick up at a later time.
Great job on everything of late. The recent changes and development of late in both the trader guild and the overall game have just been tremendous. Thanks for all the dedication and hard work!
~Player of Crimsondae
>How are you going to write in the fact that moon mages will not have access to trader Lunar magic when MM are the end/all be all of lunar magic
They're not really. They have been to date simply the only guild to use lunar. As others said, all the mana types save arcane are shared by multiple guilds. And while the two guilds each use the same mana, and use it according to the centralized theme of that mana, they use it differently.
Rangers vs empaths, bards vs war mages. Cleric/paladin is nearly identical though in my mind.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
They're not really. They have been to date simply the only guild to use lunar. As others said, all the mana types save arcane are shared by multiple guilds. And while the two guilds each use the same mana, and use it according to the centralized theme of that mana, they use it differently.
Rangers vs empaths, bards vs war mages. Cleric/paladin is nearly identical though in my mind.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
<<Just to point out, an Empath earning Empathy by using Manipulate is like a Moon Mage training TM in combat; it's only going to happen if you've trained a tertiary skill set to be on par with your primary skill set. It means you've probably spent no time healing patients or power walking, and basically just live in combat.
To be honest I do this, and it's really not that bad. Your other lores suffer pretty hard though as you spend all your time in game in combat but your always learning empathy.
Beats power walking. I hate power walking. I hate it so hard.
To be honest I do this, and it's really not that bad. Your other lores suffer pretty hard though as you spend all your time in game in combat but your always learning empathy.
Beats power walking. I hate power walking. I hate it so hard.
<<Not refuting what your saying but that's not what he told us at the first or second Vegascon. He came into the general meeting suite pretty stoned though. :P We had to kick him out when he fell over onto a piece of furniture.>>
Probably relevant to point out that that wasn't the original Shapeshifter. No telling what stories the second one had to share, though.
Solomon
Probably relevant to point out that that wasn't the original Shapeshifter. No telling what stories the second one had to share, though.
Solomon
Now that I'm out of the hospital again (this is getting irritating), a bit of the thought behind the Trader books.
First up, my intention is not for Traders to become mini-Moon Mages. Look at the distinction between Rangers and Empaths as more indicative of what I'm trying to do here: both guilds' spells have a clear focus on the concept of Life, but go at it in different directions.
With Lunar it's a bit of a challenge for two reasons.
1) Unlike Elemental, Holy and Life, there is no solid fantasy archetype for what Lunar magic is. Other games and stories have done similar things, the shape of Lunar magic in DR is pretty unique to it.
2) Moon Mages have been the sole users of Lunar Magic, creating a de facto total mastery.
But difficult does not mean impossible, as I hope a reading of the spellbooks shows. What we've tired to do is create avenues where Moon Mage lore has suggested going but never quite got there. Fabrication is the cleanest example: there's been some unstated connection between Lunar mana and magical crystals for a very long time, but nothing has ever come from it. Traders, instead of Moon Mages, will tread new ground here.
Conversely, I do not want Traders to simply ape some of the stuff Moon Mages do just because it is iconic of Moon Mages (see #2 and read it in reverse). I do not intend Traders to explore the parapsychology stuff, or teleportation. Both those things I want to be less definitive of Lunar magic and more of Moon Mages in particular.
Between those two there is still overlap, things that we want to make definitive of Lunar magic across the guilds. The ideas that Lunar magic has a bit of alien "wrongness" to it and that it touches on destiny will still get play.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
First up, my intention is not for Traders to become mini-Moon Mages. Look at the distinction between Rangers and Empaths as more indicative of what I'm trying to do here: both guilds' spells have a clear focus on the concept of Life, but go at it in different directions.
With Lunar it's a bit of a challenge for two reasons.
1) Unlike Elemental, Holy and Life, there is no solid fantasy archetype for what Lunar magic is. Other games and stories have done similar things, the shape of Lunar magic in DR is pretty unique to it.
2) Moon Mages have been the sole users of Lunar Magic, creating a de facto total mastery.
But difficult does not mean impossible, as I hope a reading of the spellbooks shows. What we've tired to do is create avenues where Moon Mage lore has suggested going but never quite got there. Fabrication is the cleanest example: there's been some unstated connection between Lunar mana and magical crystals for a very long time, but nothing has ever come from it. Traders, instead of Moon Mages, will tread new ground here.
Conversely, I do not want Traders to simply ape some of the stuff Moon Mages do just because it is iconic of Moon Mages (see #2 and read it in reverse). I do not intend Traders to explore the parapsychology stuff, or teleportation. Both those things I want to be less definitive of Lunar magic and more of Moon Mages in particular.
Between those two there is still overlap, things that we want to make definitive of Lunar magic across the guilds. The ideas that Lunar magic has a bit of alien "wrongness" to it and that it touches on destiny will still get play.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
