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Howdy,
I was trying to buy some of the trader jewelry for my Trader from the Crossing Trader shop, but none of it seemed to be working. Did this get turned off with the last update to TJ? Am I mistaken as to which items are supposed to be special?
Also, very annoying thing I noticed: you can't appraise anything in the Trader shop. Is this intentional? I would love to be able to get more information about the items before I purchase them (especially in this case where I dropped 50+ plats on worthless jewelry)!
Thanks!
GENT
<<I was trying to buy some of the trader jewelry for my Trader from the Crossing Trader shop, but none of it seemed to be working. Did this get turned off with the last update to TJ? Am I mistaken as to which items are supposed to be special?
Which pieces were you looking at specifically?
Nikpack
Which pieces were you looking at specifically?
Nikpack
For general purposes "Trader Jewelry" is not "Jewelry from the Trader's Store." I'm not familiar enough with the shop inventories to know if any of them offer actual "Trader Jewelry."
I can however help describe what "Trader Jewelry" does look like. Unfortunately, since it requires appraising the item, you'll need to be willing to spend to experiment, or hope you can find the data on E-pedia. The not being able to appraise stuff in the Trader shops is awfully annoying.
Let's start with my platinum lunchbox. (HE shop item)
This it's appraisal while worn. The key line here is the "obviously a specially made item." This tells me this item has Trader Jewelry appraisal features.
The platinum lunchbox is obviously a specially made item.
The platinum lunchbox is a container, and can be opened and closed.
It appears that the platinum lunchbox can be worn attached to a belt.
You are certain that the platinum lunchbox weighs exactly 78 stones.
You are certain that the platinum lunchbox is worth exactly 1240250 dokoras, 1718750 kronars, or 1375000 lirums.
Now this is the same lunchbox, while held in my hand. Now this appraisal is obviously not a "normal one." It includes the materials in the lunchbox, as well as the crafter's identity.
You are certain that the lunchbox's beautifully engraved platinum is worth exactly 451000 dokoras, 625000 kronars, or 500000 lirums.
You are certain that the lunchbox's finely faceted diamond is worth exactly 541200 dokoras, 750000 kronars, or 600000 lirums.
It appears that the platinum lunchbox can be worn attached to a belt.
You are certain that the platinum lunchbox weighs exactly 78 stones.
You are certain that the platinum lunchbox is worth exactly 1240250 dokoras, 1718750 kronars, or 1375000 lirums.
You are certain that the platinum lunchbox was crafted by a master artisan.
Most of my items came from quests or festivals, though the Ratha Trader Shop has some knives that are very good for appraisal, if nothing else.
a gem-encrusted golden goblet (Incidental, Akigwe's Tower)
You are certain that the goblet's finely facetted ruby is worth exactly 59171 dokoras, 82000 kronars, or 65600 lirums.
You are certain that the goblet's finely facetted emerald is worth exactly 48708 dokoras, 67500 kronars, or 54000 lirums.
You are certain that the goblet's nicely facetted amethyst is worth exactly 8433 dokoras, 11687 kronars, or 9350 lirums.
You are certain that the goblet's very nicely burnished gold is worth exactly 142876 dokoras, 198000 kronars, or 158400 lirums.
The golden goblet is made with metal.
You are certain that the golden goblet weighs exactly 20 stones.
You are certain that the golden goblet is worth exactly 270600 dokoras, 375000 kronars, or 300000 lirums.
You have no clear idea about who crafted the golden goblet.
A steel throwing hammer with a leather-wrapped handle is a heavy thrown and heavy blunt melee-ranged weapon. (Akigwe's End Prize)
You are certain that it could do:
no puncture damage
poor slice damage
very great impact damage
You are certain that the hammer is inadequately balanced and is reasonably suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the throwing hammer is rather reinforced against damage, and is in pristine condition.
You are certain that the hammer's masterfully forged steel is worth exactly 10697 dokoras, 14825 kronars, or 11860 lirums.
You are certain that the hammer's expertly emblazoned gold is worth exactly 8298 dokoras, 11500 kronars, or 9200 lirums.
You are certain that the hammer's skillfully wrapped leather is worth exactly 685 dokoras, 950 kronars, or 760 lirums.
The throwing hammer is made with metal.
You are certain that the throwing hammer weighs exactly 50 stones.
You are certain that the throwing hammer is worth exactly 24602 dokoras, 34093 kronars, or 27275 lirums.
You are certain that the throwing hammer was crafted by a Dwarven artisan.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
Hopefully all of that will help you correctly identify "Trader Jewelry" or "Trader Appraisal" items in the future. Assuming you're in an environment where you can appraise them.
I can however help describe what "Trader Jewelry" does look like. Unfortunately, since it requires appraising the item, you'll need to be willing to spend to experiment, or hope you can find the data on E-pedia. The not being able to appraise stuff in the Trader shops is awfully annoying.
Let's start with my platinum lunchbox. (HE shop item)
This it's appraisal while worn. The key line here is the "obviously a specially made item." This tells me this item has Trader Jewelry appraisal features.
The platinum lunchbox is obviously a specially made item.
The platinum lunchbox is a container, and can be opened and closed.
It appears that the platinum lunchbox can be worn attached to a belt.
You are certain that the platinum lunchbox weighs exactly 78 stones.
You are certain that the platinum lunchbox is worth exactly 1240250 dokoras, 1718750 kronars, or 1375000 lirums.
Now this is the same lunchbox, while held in my hand. Now this appraisal is obviously not a "normal one." It includes the materials in the lunchbox, as well as the crafter's identity.
You are certain that the lunchbox's beautifully engraved platinum is worth exactly 451000 dokoras, 625000 kronars, or 500000 lirums.
You are certain that the lunchbox's finely faceted diamond is worth exactly 541200 dokoras, 750000 kronars, or 600000 lirums.
It appears that the platinum lunchbox can be worn attached to a belt.
You are certain that the platinum lunchbox weighs exactly 78 stones.
You are certain that the platinum lunchbox is worth exactly 1240250 dokoras, 1718750 kronars, or 1375000 lirums.
You are certain that the platinum lunchbox was crafted by a master artisan.
Most of my items came from quests or festivals, though the Ratha Trader Shop has some knives that are very good for appraisal, if nothing else.
a gem-encrusted golden goblet (Incidental, Akigwe's Tower)
You are certain that the goblet's finely facetted ruby is worth exactly 59171 dokoras, 82000 kronars, or 65600 lirums.
You are certain that the goblet's finely facetted emerald is worth exactly 48708 dokoras, 67500 kronars, or 54000 lirums.
You are certain that the goblet's nicely facetted amethyst is worth exactly 8433 dokoras, 11687 kronars, or 9350 lirums.
You are certain that the goblet's very nicely burnished gold is worth exactly 142876 dokoras, 198000 kronars, or 158400 lirums.
The golden goblet is made with metal.
You are certain that the golden goblet weighs exactly 20 stones.
You are certain that the golden goblet is worth exactly 270600 dokoras, 375000 kronars, or 300000 lirums.
You have no clear idea about who crafted the golden goblet.
A steel throwing hammer with a leather-wrapped handle is a heavy thrown and heavy blunt melee-ranged weapon. (Akigwe's End Prize)
You are certain that it could do:
no puncture damage
poor slice damage
very great impact damage
You are certain that the hammer is inadequately balanced and is reasonably suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the throwing hammer is rather reinforced against damage, and is in pristine condition.
You are certain that the hammer's masterfully forged steel is worth exactly 10697 dokoras, 14825 kronars, or 11860 lirums.
You are certain that the hammer's expertly emblazoned gold is worth exactly 8298 dokoras, 11500 kronars, or 9200 lirums.
You are certain that the hammer's skillfully wrapped leather is worth exactly 685 dokoras, 950 kronars, or 760 lirums.
The throwing hammer is made with metal.
You are certain that the throwing hammer weighs exactly 50 stones.
You are certain that the throwing hammer is worth exactly 24602 dokoras, 34093 kronars, or 27275 lirums.
You are certain that the throwing hammer was crafted by a Dwarven artisan.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
Hopefully all of that will help you correctly identify "Trader Jewelry" or "Trader Appraisal" items in the future. Assuming you're in an environment where you can appraise them.
GARBAGE23OMF's post is spot on. I'll toss a bit more into the mix, since it can be difficult to identify them in shops.
Firstly, you need a base amount of appraisal to trigger it. There's also a random factor added in, so you may need multiple appraises if you're in the wobbly zone. Assuming you have the skill, and you're a trader, then you'll always see the "The {item} is obviously a specially made item." line when it's NOT in your hands.
When I get a chance, I'll take a look at the trader shops to see if they do something to block appraisals that would stop the above from happening.
SGM Zadraes
Logistics Lead
Premium Lead
Trader Guild Advocate
Firstly, you need a base amount of appraisal to trigger it. There's also a random factor added in, so you may need multiple appraises if you're in the wobbly zone. Assuming you have the skill, and you're a trader, then you'll always see the "The {item} is obviously a specially made item." line when it's NOT in your hands.
When I get a chance, I'll take a look at the trader shops to see if they do something to block appraisals that would stop the above from happening.
SGM Zadraes
Logistics Lead
Premium Lead
Trader Guild Advocate
>>When I get a chance, I'll take a look at the trader shops to see if they do something to block appraisals that would stop the above from happening.
You can only get the "trader" appraisal if you are holding the item in your hand. Though you should get "The <item> is obviously a specially made item." when appraising it on the table.
Abison/Rystien
You can only get the "trader" appraisal if you are holding the item in your hand. Though you should get "The <item> is obviously a specially made item." when appraising it on the table.
Abison/Rystien
Any chance for non-Traders to be able to get the "The <item> is obviously a specially made item." line with enough skill?
I don't want my non-Trader character to get the material breakdown Trader bonus (well, I wouldn't be against it, but that's another issue), but I would like the ability to tell if it's something special for Traders. Just for the sake of being able to highlight stuff on epedia as "hey this is something a Trader might want to know about" or knowing if it would be something cool for a Trader for my own purposes.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
I don't want my non-Trader character to get the material breakdown Trader bonus (well, I wouldn't be against it, but that's another issue), but I would like the ability to tell if it's something special for Traders. Just for the sake of being able to highlight stuff on epedia as "hey this is something a Trader might want to know about" or knowing if it would be something cool for a Trader for my own purposes.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
>>You can only get the "trader" appraisal if you are holding the item in your hand. Though you should get "The <item> is obviously a specially made item." when appraising it on the table.
This has always greatly annoyed me and I hope something can be done about it (although perhaps it can't). There have occasionally been "trader jewelry" items at festivals, like the lunchbox mentioned above, but it's impossible to test whether an item teaches appraisal until AFTER you shell out 100+ plat for it. So we're kinda stuck with either paying tons of plats for items that probably end up worthless (if they don't teach well) or passing on buying items we desperately need for training appraisal
That's always been my 2nd biggest issue with the whole push to make appraisal trained by trader jewelry items (1st biggest issue being the cap on appraisal exp per action that Zadraes mentioned). I'd love to see some way to test items without having to purchase them first, it makes the system incredibly difficult to utilize
>>3) The attendant hireling will soon be getting an INVENTORY option. As long as you're holding a container in your right hand, he'll rummage through it and provide you with a vault-book style list of its contents. There's no fee for this.
How is this different than just typing "i <container>"? Is that already a vault-book style list?
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
This has always greatly annoyed me and I hope something can be done about it (although perhaps it can't). There have occasionally been "trader jewelry" items at festivals, like the lunchbox mentioned above, but it's impossible to test whether an item teaches appraisal until AFTER you shell out 100+ plat for it. So we're kinda stuck with either paying tons of plats for items that probably end up worthless (if they don't teach well) or passing on buying items we desperately need for training appraisal
That's always been my 2nd biggest issue with the whole push to make appraisal trained by trader jewelry items (1st biggest issue being the cap on appraisal exp per action that Zadraes mentioned). I'd love to see some way to test items without having to purchase them first, it makes the system incredibly difficult to utilize
>>3) The attendant hireling will soon be getting an INVENTORY option. As long as you're holding a container in your right hand, he'll rummage through it and provide you with a vault-book style list of its contents. There's no fee for this.
How is this different than just typing "i <container>"? Is that already a vault-book style list?
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
>>>How is this different than just typing "i <container>"? Is that already a vault-book style list?
I'm assuming it works like the storage books, which will include the nested contents of containers within the container you're holding in a nice formatted method, which is obviously not something you'd get with look or rummage.
I'm assuming it works like the storage books, which will include the nested contents of containers within the container you're holding in a nice formatted method, which is obviously not something you'd get with look or rummage.
>>I'm assuming it works like the storage books, which will include the nested contents of containers within the container you're holding in a nice formatted method, which is obviously not something you'd get with look or rummage.
Well, "i <container>" puts the output the exact same nice formatting method as storage books (which I assume is the same as vault books, but I'm not premie), although I suppose it does not show nested containers without doing a full "i list" which does have annoyingly long roundtime
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
Well, "i <container>" puts the output the exact same nice formatting method as storage books (which I assume is the same as vault books, but I'm not premie), although I suppose it does not show nested containers without doing a full "i list" which does have annoyingly long roundtime
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
How high is the base amount of Appraisal now? I remember that I could purchase the items in the Crossing Trader shop without any skill and learn from them. This was before the recent update.
The items in question, which I remember being Trader Jewelry from before the recent update:
carved jade necklace with polished bronze clasps
crystal bracelet inlaid with precious stones
gloriously polished jade ring inlaid with bronze gremlins
polished white gold earrings set with two tear-shaped amethysts
polished white gold ring set with a large amethyst
serpentine platinum ring displaying a lustrous fang pearl
white gold necklace displaying a large amethyst pendant
agate ring with a bronze serpentine band
ivory necklace inlaid with gold unicorns
rose quartz brooch set in filigreed silver
silver earring set with a small red garnet
white topaz bracelet with a copper welkin clasp
I was also under the impression that this item was supposed to fall under the NEW Trader Jewelry system:
olivewood contract case embossed with a jade sana'ati tree
based on this post: http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Post:New_Trader_Appraisal_system_-_10/13/2011_-_10:51
Also mentioned in that post was that the old system should be working, which is why I'm confused. I don't think ALL the items in the list above were TJ before, but I am certain that a handful were under the old system. And I'm almost certain that I was able to get at least a few lines of special information from them, even with sub 50 ranks in Appraisal.
Any ideas? I apologize if I'm being dense. Trying to learn more about the guild in anticipation of the changes ahead!
GENT
The items in question, which I remember being Trader Jewelry from before the recent update:
carved jade necklace with polished bronze clasps
crystal bracelet inlaid with precious stones
gloriously polished jade ring inlaid with bronze gremlins
polished white gold earrings set with two tear-shaped amethysts
polished white gold ring set with a large amethyst
serpentine platinum ring displaying a lustrous fang pearl
white gold necklace displaying a large amethyst pendant
agate ring with a bronze serpentine band
ivory necklace inlaid with gold unicorns
rose quartz brooch set in filigreed silver
silver earring set with a small red garnet
white topaz bracelet with a copper welkin clasp
I was also under the impression that this item was supposed to fall under the NEW Trader Jewelry system:
olivewood contract case embossed with a jade sana'ati tree
based on this post: http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Post:New_Trader_Appraisal_system_-_10/13/2011_-_10:51
Also mentioned in that post was that the old system should be working, which is why I'm confused. I don't think ALL the items in the list above were TJ before, but I am certain that a handful were under the old system. And I'm almost certain that I was able to get at least a few lines of special information from them, even with sub 50 ranks in Appraisal.
Any ideas? I apologize if I'm being dense. Trying to learn more about the guild in anticipation of the changes ahead!
GENT
>Any chance for non-Traders to be able to get the "The <item> is obviously a specially made item." line with enough skill?
There would be no bonuses to this as far as exp goes, but sure. I have no problems making them more easily identified. There are currently two variants of these mechanics in play. I've only fixed one of them -- the newer, easier-to-work-with version. The older one will take more time, but I'll see what I can do with it too.
>I'd love to see some way to test items without having to purchase them first, it makes the system incredibly difficult to utilize
I'll need to get some time with Socharis to see what our options are here. In general, appraising items from shops teaches poorly because we don't want people using fest grounds or visiting merchants to train their appraisal. It's an old system with flaws, though, and there's certainly room for improvement with time.
>1st biggest issue being the cap on appraisal exp per action that Zadraes mentioned
We're looking into options for this. Plat and TF were testing some tweaks a few weeks back. Most of these caps have been done away with, but in the case of appraisal, things with multiple components (trader jewelry, untied gem pouches and bundles, etc) can potentially lock someone with a single appraisal with that cap removed. What other skill in the game can you lock with a single 8-second time investment? That isn't something we're comfortable with. We'd like it to change, too, but it's not as simple as just removing the cap in this particular case.
>How is this different than just typing "i <container>"? Is that already a vault-book style list?
Not quite. I don't think INVENTORY handles nested containers. The attendant will function more like the storage books, which are also based off Premium's vault book mechanics. It's similar to the INVENTORY LIST option, but focused on a single held container. This was an easy update to make and it filled someone's request, so I felt it to be worth the time. Not everyone will find it useful, but it will be a new option available to those who do.
SGM Zadraes
Logistics Lead
Premium Lead
Trader Guild Advocate
There would be no bonuses to this as far as exp goes, but sure. I have no problems making them more easily identified. There are currently two variants of these mechanics in play. I've only fixed one of them -- the newer, easier-to-work-with version. The older one will take more time, but I'll see what I can do with it too.
>I'd love to see some way to test items without having to purchase them first, it makes the system incredibly difficult to utilize
I'll need to get some time with Socharis to see what our options are here. In general, appraising items from shops teaches poorly because we don't want people using fest grounds or visiting merchants to train their appraisal. It's an old system with flaws, though, and there's certainly room for improvement with time.
>1st biggest issue being the cap on appraisal exp per action that Zadraes mentioned
We're looking into options for this. Plat and TF were testing some tweaks a few weeks back. Most of these caps have been done away with, but in the case of appraisal, things with multiple components (trader jewelry, untied gem pouches and bundles, etc) can potentially lock someone with a single appraisal with that cap removed. What other skill in the game can you lock with a single 8-second time investment? That isn't something we're comfortable with. We'd like it to change, too, but it's not as simple as just removing the cap in this particular case.
>How is this different than just typing "i <container>"? Is that already a vault-book style list?
Not quite. I don't think INVENTORY handles nested containers. The attendant will function more like the storage books, which are also based off Premium's vault book mechanics. It's similar to the INVENTORY LIST option, but focused on a single held container. This was an easy update to make and it filled someone's request, so I felt it to be worth the time. Not everyone will find it useful, but it will be a new option available to those who do.
SGM Zadraes
Logistics Lead
Premium Lead
Trader Guild Advocate
>How high is the base amount of Appraisal now?
That wasn't changed, and it's the same on the old version of these as well as the new.
>{item lists}
These are both accurate. The first list are items under the old system. The contract case is one of the newer items.
>which is why I'm confused.
I'm confused as to why you're confused. Both systems are in place, one is just MUCH easier for GMs to make new items with and uses more modern mechanics (easier for us to fix if something breaks). The update that I'm making to the newer ones, from my original post, addresses one such issue. Currently, the live version is ONLY teaching for the first "extra" appraisal line. If something has a platinum line, a jade line, a crystal line and a bronze line (that's an ugly item, eh?), you're only learning at present for the platinum-related info on the item. You're not getting the exp for evaluating the jade, crystal and bronze. Once the update is in place, you'll be getting exp for each of them. The items under the OLD system (your first list) teach for each component, as they should.
SGM Zadraes
Logistics Lead
Premium Lead
Trader Guild Advocate
That wasn't changed, and it's the same on the old version of these as well as the new.
>{item lists}
These are both accurate. The first list are items under the old system. The contract case is one of the newer items.
>which is why I'm confused.
I'm confused as to why you're confused. Both systems are in place, one is just MUCH easier for GMs to make new items with and uses more modern mechanics (easier for us to fix if something breaks). The update that I'm making to the newer ones, from my original post, addresses one such issue. Currently, the live version is ONLY teaching for the first "extra" appraisal line. If something has a platinum line, a jade line, a crystal line and a bronze line (that's an ugly item, eh?), you're only learning at present for the platinum-related info on the item. You're not getting the exp for evaluating the jade, crystal and bronze. Once the update is in place, you'll be getting exp for each of them. The items under the OLD system (your first list) teach for each component, as they should.
SGM Zadraes
Logistics Lead
Premium Lead
Trader Guild Advocate
>>I'll need to get some time with Socharis to see what our options are here. In general, appraising items from shops teaches poorly because we don't want people using fest grounds or visiting merchants to train their appraisal. It's an old system with flaws, though, and there's certainly room for improvement with time.
I don't see why this would be a dealbreaker since A) would anyone really do that, I mean REALLY?, and B) it's no different than having a permanent location like Raven's Court where you can go study items to learn scholarship/appraisal
A bigger issue would seem to be that learning appraisal from Trader Jewelry items for sale would probably require being able to learn from worn Trader Jewelry items without the requirement to hold the item. Shockingly, I'd also like to see that restriction removed, since not having to hold something is less work than having to hold something - but it was clearly an intended feature of the original design.
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
I don't see why this would be a dealbreaker since A) would anyone really do that, I mean REALLY?, and B) it's no different than having a permanent location like Raven's Court where you can go study items to learn scholarship/appraisal
A bigger issue would seem to be that learning appraisal from Trader Jewelry items for sale would probably require being able to learn from worn Trader Jewelry items without the requirement to hold the item. Shockingly, I'd also like to see that restriction removed, since not having to hold something is less work than having to hold something - but it was clearly an intended feature of the original design.
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
>A) would anyone really do that, I mean REALLY?
Absolutely.
>Shockingly, I'd also like to see that restriction removed,
I'm not opposed to the idea, but I didn't create these mechanics. I'm mostly resolving a bug with my modification, and I don't want to go crazy changing their very nature when they aren't "mine", so to speak. I'll bounce it to the folks responsible and if they're ok with it, we'll see what we can do.
I'll point out that there is some element of realism to consider. For example, if we make a headband, how exactly are you going to examine all those intricate details while it's up above your eyes? Playability vs realism. I'll bounce it for consideration.
SGM Zadraes
Logistics Lead
Premium Lead
Trader Guild Advocate
Absolutely.
>Shockingly, I'd also like to see that restriction removed,
I'm not opposed to the idea, but I didn't create these mechanics. I'm mostly resolving a bug with my modification, and I don't want to go crazy changing their very nature when they aren't "mine", so to speak. I'll bounce it to the folks responsible and if they're ok with it, we'll see what we can do.
I'll point out that there is some element of realism to consider. For example, if we make a headband, how exactly are you going to examine all those intricate details while it's up above your eyes? Playability vs realism. I'll bounce it for consideration.
SGM Zadraes
Logistics Lead
Premium Lead
Trader Guild Advocate
>>For example, if we make a headband, how exactly are you going to examine all those intricate details while it's up above your eyes? Playability vs realism. I'll bounce it for consideration.
Assume you remove it and put it back on? (As those are 0 rt actions)
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Assume you remove it and put it back on? (As those are 0 rt actions)
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
>>Any chance for non-Traders to be able to get the "The <item> is obviously a specially made item." line with enough skill?
>There would be no bonuses to this as far as exp goes, but sure. I have no problems making them more easily identified. There are currently two variants of these mechanics in play. I've only fixed one of them -- the newer, easier-to-work-with version. The older one will take more time, but I'll see what I can do with it too.
Thanks for looking into this Zadraes. I'm fine with there being no extra exp-bonus for non-traders. It's just nice to be able to identify an item as trader jewlery even as a non-trader. I will be able to ID what makes an item mechanically special (other than the pretty look), or if I'm at a fest I will be able to easily identify what I might want to pick up for me alt trader.
Nikpack
>There would be no bonuses to this as far as exp goes, but sure. I have no problems making them more easily identified. There are currently two variants of these mechanics in play. I've only fixed one of them -- the newer, easier-to-work-with version. The older one will take more time, but I'll see what I can do with it too.
Thanks for looking into this Zadraes. I'm fine with there being no extra exp-bonus for non-traders. It's just nice to be able to identify an item as trader jewlery even as a non-trader. I will be able to ID what makes an item mechanically special (other than the pretty look), or if I'm at a fest I will be able to easily identify what I might want to pick up for me alt trader.
Nikpack
>>I'm fine with there being no extra exp-bonus for non-traders. It's just nice to be able to identify an item as trader jewlery even as a non-trader.
Yeah, agreed. Dutosa only got his lunchbox because a mutual friend grabbed the wrong one, and afterward by lucky chance what I thought was a total waste of 150 plat turned out to have a good use.
-- Player of Eyuve
Yeah, agreed. Dutosa only got his lunchbox because a mutual friend grabbed the wrong one, and afterward by lucky chance what I thought was a total waste of 150 plat turned out to have a good use.
-- Player of Eyuve
>>I'm fine with there being no extra exp-bonus for non-traders. It's just nice to be able to identify an item as trader jewlery even as a non-trader.
TBH I'd rather see the Trader-only aspect of it go away and just let everyone use "Trader jewelry" to train appraisal. It's a ridiculously difficult skill for everyone to train, so why not focus appraisal's (very tiny) development effort one generic system that everyone can use?
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
TBH I'd rather see the Trader-only aspect of it go away and just let everyone use "Trader jewelry" to train appraisal. It's a ridiculously difficult skill for everyone to train, so why not focus appraisal's (very tiny) development effort one generic system that everyone can use?
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
>>TBH I'd rather see the Trader-only aspect of it go away and just let everyone use "Trader jewelry" to train appraisal. It's a ridiculously difficult skill for everyone to train, so why not focus appraisal's (very tiny) development effort one generic system that everyone can use?
I'm all for it, too, mainly because I think that if it was opened up more items might get coded to work that way (and I some better ways to see my appraisal function), but for the time being I just want to get the "low hanging non skill giving so barely any reason to have a debate about it" fruit.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
I'm all for it, too, mainly because I think that if it was opened up more items might get coded to work that way (and I some better ways to see my appraisal function), but for the time being I just want to get the "low hanging non skill giving so barely any reason to have a debate about it" fruit.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
Don't get your hopes up on that. Appraisal, as a system, is not a trader thing. I have no definitive say involving it, and it's a beast for someone else to tackle.
Trader jewelry, though, is a trader system. Two different trader GMs created the system over the years, and multiple others have contributed to it. For now, it's appropriate to the guild and not something I care to open up. Bundles and pouches are currently capable of teaching as well as these items and aren't restricted.
SGM Zadraes
Logistics Lead
Premium Lead
Trader Guild Advocate
Trader jewelry, though, is a trader system. Two different trader GMs created the system over the years, and multiple others have contributed to it. For now, it's appropriate to the guild and not something I care to open up. Bundles and pouches are currently capable of teaching as well as these items and aren't restricted.
SGM Zadraes
Logistics Lead
Premium Lead
Trader Guild Advocate
>>TBH I'd rather see the Trader-only aspect of it go away and just let everyone use "Trader jewelry" to train appraisal. It's a ridiculously difficult skill for everyone to train, so why not focus appraisal's (very tiny) development effort one generic system that everyone can use?
What are you doing bringing logic to the table!?
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
What are you doing bringing logic to the table!?
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
>>Don't get your hopes up on that.
I'm not, honest! That's why I figure the best thing to push for right now is asking to be able to just identify if something is Trader jewelry, because that can help spread the word that something is set up to be all awesome for Traders.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
I'm not, honest! That's why I figure the best thing to push for right now is asking to be able to just identify if something is Trader jewelry, because that can help spread the word that something is set up to be all awesome for Traders.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
>>Bundles and pouches are currently capable of teaching as well as these items and aren't restricted.
At increased risk of character corruption. Is your assertion really that appraisal training should carry increased risk for loss of your character?
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
At increased risk of character corruption. Is your assertion really that appraisal training should carry increased risk for loss of your character?
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
>Is your assertion really that appraisal training should carry increased risk for loss of your character?
Please don't put words into my mouth. No one forces you (general) to carry so many items that you risk corruption. In fact, there are automated systems in place that do their best to prevent you from reaching that point. If you choose to do so, you choose to accept the risks that come with it.
You (still general) choosing to carry so many items that you can't also have a bundle/pouch available is a situation that you set up for yourself, not one that we encourage or force upon you.
I'll point out (again) that we've already been looking at changes to appraisal to remove (or change) the cap that currently limits things. When larger efforts are focused on the appraisal system, we'll see what else can be done. That, however, has nothing to do with the originally posted planned releases. Those will be going forward as previously detailed.
Further discussion on the overall appraisal system should be directed to the Appraisal area of the Lore forums.
SGM Zadraes
Logistics Lead
Premium Lead
Trader Guild Advocate
Please don't put words into my mouth. No one forces you (general) to carry so many items that you risk corruption. In fact, there are automated systems in place that do their best to prevent you from reaching that point. If you choose to do so, you choose to accept the risks that come with it.
You (still general) choosing to carry so many items that you can't also have a bundle/pouch available is a situation that you set up for yourself, not one that we encourage or force upon you.
I'll point out (again) that we've already been looking at changes to appraisal to remove (or change) the cap that currently limits things. When larger efforts are focused on the appraisal system, we'll see what else can be done. That, however, has nothing to do with the originally posted planned releases. Those will be going forward as previously detailed.
Further discussion on the overall appraisal system should be directed to the Appraisal area of the Lore forums.
SGM Zadraes
Logistics Lead
Premium Lead
Trader Guild Advocate
>>Please don't put words into my mouth.
I'm not. I don't think you fully understand the implications of your suggestion of bundles and gem pouches (which have to be untied to work).
>>No one forces you (general) to carry so many items that you risk corruption. In fact, there are automated systems in place that do their best to prevent you from reaching that point. If you choose to do so, you choose to accept the risks that come with it.
>>You (still general) choosing to carry so many items that you can't also have a bundle/pouch available is a situation that you set up for yourself, not one that we encourage or force upon you.
Look at what Leonid was doing to be able to learn appraisal. Carrying around a full 200 pelt bundle. That's 1/2 of your item allotment before the system starts spamming you. Again, this was your suggestion.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
I'm not. I don't think you fully understand the implications of your suggestion of bundles and gem pouches (which have to be untied to work).
>>No one forces you (general) to carry so many items that you risk corruption. In fact, there are automated systems in place that do their best to prevent you from reaching that point. If you choose to do so, you choose to accept the risks that come with it.
>>You (still general) choosing to carry so many items that you can't also have a bundle/pouch available is a situation that you set up for yourself, not one that we encourage or force upon you.
Look at what Leonid was doing to be able to learn appraisal. Carrying around a full 200 pelt bundle. That's 1/2 of your item allotment before the system starts spamming you. Again, this was your suggestion.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
>>Don't get your hopes up on that.
For me personally, I don't care much since I benefit either way. And there really REALLY ought to be additional development of the appraisal skill regardless of whether Trader jewelry stays Trader-only or not.
But I'd be fine with "losing" the exclusive ability on this though, since appraisal is the most neglected skill in the game when it comes to GM development so it might make sense to just squeeze every bit of benefit out of the miniscule amount of GM hours spent on the skill. Either way it's great to see work done on it
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
For me personally, I don't care much since I benefit either way. And there really REALLY ought to be additional development of the appraisal skill regardless of whether Trader jewelry stays Trader-only or not.
But I'd be fine with "losing" the exclusive ability on this though, since appraisal is the most neglected skill in the game when it comes to GM development so it might make sense to just squeeze every bit of benefit out of the miniscule amount of GM hours spent on the skill. Either way it's great to see work done on it
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
Would it be possible for tied bundles/pouches to teach like their untied counterparts? Maybe the system could mock a value for each gem based on the pouch value divided by number of gems in it.
I imagine someone could theoretically try to game the system by getting a bunch of junk gems and toss in a very high appraisal one or two to artificially inflate the values of all the junk ones, but I don't know if that would even cause any kind of issue.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
I imagine someone could theoretically try to game the system by getting a bunch of junk gems and toss in a very high appraisal one or two to artificially inflate the values of all the junk ones, but I don't know if that would even cause any kind of issue.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
>>For now, it's appropriate to the guild and not something I care to open up.
I just want to say that for the record, I too wouldn't mind seeing it opened up. I see no real thematic reason that only Traders can examine specific gems on a piece of jewelry, and I do have legitimate concerns about appraisal training at high ranks. I hear you that it's not going to happen (anytime soon), but yeah, just wanted to throw in my two cents.
-- Player of Eyuve
I just want to say that for the record, I too wouldn't mind seeing it opened up. I see no real thematic reason that only Traders can examine specific gems on a piece of jewelry, and I do have legitimate concerns about appraisal training at high ranks. I hear you that it's not going to happen (anytime soon), but yeah, just wanted to throw in my two cents.
-- Player of Eyuve
Morning,
Discussion on the Appraisal system in general belongs over in the Lore folder.
Discussion on trader specific items is appropriate here.
Snarking, and leaps of logic so you can continue to snark, really needs to go elsewhere, further find a constructive way to express yourself or find something else to do.
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
I'd like to see Trader jewelry get some love. Instead of seeing this when appraising trader jewelry:
You are certain that the pin's nicely carved sapphire is worth exactly 15721 kronars, 12577 lirums, or 11344 dokoras.
You are certain that the pin's simply facetted alexandrite is worth exactly 12200 kronars, 9760 lirums, or 8803 dokoras.
You are certain that the pin's very nicely carved garnet is worth exactly 7940 kronars, 6352 lirums, or 5729 dokoras.
You are certain that the pin's nicely polished peridot is worth exactly 3608 kronars, 2887 lirums, or 2604 dokoras.
The gladiolus pin is made with metal.
It appears that the gladiolus pin can be worn.
You are certain that the gladiolus pin weighs exactly 5 stones.
You are certain that the gladiolus pin is worth exactly nothing.
If trader's could see more gem details like this:
You think it is likely that the pink sapphire has a vitreous luster.
You wonder if the carved sapphire is cloudy.
You are certain that the carved sapphire is unmarked.
You are certain that the carved sapphire weighs exactly 1 stone.
You are certain that the pin's nicely carved sapphire is worth exactly 15721 kronars, 12577 lirums, or 11344 dokoras.
You are certain that the pin's simply facetted alexandrite is worth exactly 12200 kronars, 9760 lirums, or 8803 dokoras.
You are certain that the pin's very nicely carved garnet is worth exactly 7940 kronars, 6352 lirums, or 5729 dokoras.
You are certain that the pin's nicely polished peridot is worth exactly 3608 kronars, 2887 lirums, or 2604 dokoras.
The gladiolus pin is made with metal.
It appears that the gladiolus pin can be worn.
You are certain that the gladiolus pin weighs exactly 5 stones.
You are certain that the gladiolus pin is worth exactly nothing.
So that the details are seen for each carved gem. As an added bonus this might bump up appraisal learning. Some of the gem lines might be unnecessary, but the others might not be.
If we want to open up the trader jewelry to others, I'd like to see the gem details remain Trader only.
Regards,
Sortny/Braunwen
You are certain that the pin's nicely carved sapphire is worth exactly 15721 kronars, 12577 lirums, or 11344 dokoras.
You are certain that the pin's simply facetted alexandrite is worth exactly 12200 kronars, 9760 lirums, or 8803 dokoras.
You are certain that the pin's very nicely carved garnet is worth exactly 7940 kronars, 6352 lirums, or 5729 dokoras.
You are certain that the pin's nicely polished peridot is worth exactly 3608 kronars, 2887 lirums, or 2604 dokoras.
The gladiolus pin is made with metal.
It appears that the gladiolus pin can be worn.
You are certain that the gladiolus pin weighs exactly 5 stones.
You are certain that the gladiolus pin is worth exactly nothing.
If trader's could see more gem details like this:
You think it is likely that the pink sapphire has a vitreous luster.
You wonder if the carved sapphire is cloudy.
You are certain that the carved sapphire is unmarked.
You are certain that the carved sapphire weighs exactly 1 stone.
You are certain that the pin's nicely carved sapphire is worth exactly 15721 kronars, 12577 lirums, or 11344 dokoras.
You are certain that the pin's simply facetted alexandrite is worth exactly 12200 kronars, 9760 lirums, or 8803 dokoras.
You are certain that the pin's very nicely carved garnet is worth exactly 7940 kronars, 6352 lirums, or 5729 dokoras.
You are certain that the pin's nicely polished peridot is worth exactly 3608 kronars, 2887 lirums, or 2604 dokoras.
The gladiolus pin is made with metal.
It appears that the gladiolus pin can be worn.
You are certain that the gladiolus pin weighs exactly 5 stones.
You are certain that the gladiolus pin is worth exactly nothing.
So that the details are seen for each carved gem. As an added bonus this might bump up appraisal learning. Some of the gem lines might be unnecessary, but the others might not be.
If we want to open up the trader jewelry to others, I'd like to see the gem details remain Trader only.
Regards,
Sortny/Braunwen
