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Hi,
I don't often keep up with the trader area of this forum, but I wanted to ask a question...
Will there ever be a plaza in Therenborough? I would love it if there was, would definately move my trader there
Lots of people live in Therenborough/Lang/Rossmans, and are always asking for traders and such, but not many traders come that far north due to their shops being in Riverhaven.
I think it could be an great addition to a booming population in the north
Somni
>There was a poll and the poll resulted in Therengia's plaza being placed in Riverhaven. For your gratification, it wasn't even close.
yep the plaza was originally in theren, but this made the therengians unhappy, and henceforth it was moved to riverhaven (5 seconds away from crossing plaza..... ingenious, i know)
yep the plaza was originally in theren, but this made the therengians unhappy, and henceforth it was moved to riverhaven (5 seconds away from crossing plaza..... ingenious, i know)
aaahh, I see, shame, that seems pretty silly to me to be honest, given the length of boat rides between Crossing/Haven and all the way up to Theren/Lang.
I spend time in Haven, Rossmans, Lang, and Therenborough, and see by far more people in Lang if anything.
Can I ask for a small plaza of my own? One shop, next to the gem shop, so I can sell pouches for people? ;o)
I spend time in Haven, Rossmans, Lang, and Therenborough, and see by far more people in Lang if anything.
Can I ask for a small plaza of my own? One shop, next to the gem shop, so I can sell pouches for people? ;o)
I might be beating a dead horse here, but I'm going to ask anyway...
Why can't we have one in Therenborough and one in Riverhaven? Its a populated enough area
Are there any plans to expand the one in Haven, like they did in Crossing? I never shop in crossing now, because the plaza is to big. How about if we don't expand it, cus several of the shops are vacant anyway, and then we build one in Therenborough? Give people the option? I know at least 5 who would move their shop from Haven to Theren today given the chance
I'm happy to do this in roleplay, ask the Baron and such, come up with reasons he would like, get people backing it, and so on, but if the answer from the trader GM is going to be a definate no, then I'll drop it and go sulk somewhere else
Why can't we have one in Therenborough and one in Riverhaven? Its a populated enough area
Are there any plans to expand the one in Haven, like they did in Crossing? I never shop in crossing now, because the plaza is to big. How about if we don't expand it, cus several of the shops are vacant anyway, and then we build one in Therenborough? Give people the option? I know at least 5 who would move their shop from Haven to Theren today given the chance
I'm happy to do this in roleplay, ask the Baron and such, come up with reasons he would like, get people backing it, and so on, but if the answer from the trader GM is going to be a definate no, then I'll drop it and go sulk somewhere else
When the votes came up, I was one of the few that voted for the shops to be in Theren. My reasoning was not only the time it takes to travel from Haven, but also it seems to be a more skilled player base for the most part. Of course I deal in weapons, and I see a need there. I certainly would support a plaza in Theren and consider moving on my part. With that being said, I realize how difficult it is creating the plazas and appreciate all of the work that has gone into the shops already.
~Player of Crimsondae
>>I might be beating a dead horse here, but I'm going to ask anyway...
>>Why can't we have one in Therenborough and one in Riverhaven? Its a populated enough area
GM Quote:
For now, that's the way of it. It's a lot easier to say 'Which province am I in' than 'which city am I in', and the former was the way I used when I wrote shops. In the long run, I plan to expand this, but it's a technical challenge that was easiest avoided for the initial push.
Source:
http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Traders/Response%20to%20GM%60Official%20Announcements/view/853
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Apu
>>Why can't we have one in Therenborough and one in Riverhaven? Its a populated enough area
GM Quote:
For now, that's the way of it. It's a lot easier to say 'Which province am I in' than 'which city am I in', and the former was the way I used when I wrote shops. In the long run, I plan to expand this, but it's a technical challenge that was easiest avoided for the initial push.
Source:
http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Traders/Response%20to%20GM%60Official%20Announcements/view/853
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Apu
One of the main reason for Riverhaven is that you can get some of the younger circle people to come to your shop. It is much harder for younger players to go to Theren than it is for the older players to come to Riverhaven. Plus if you were in Riverhaven and had the choice to shop in Crossing or Theren, you are going to Crossing. If you are in Theren, well you have to come to Riverhaven first. Economics just make Riverhaven a better place for a shop as a trader.
Abison
Abison
I fought hard for Muspari and Theren over Haven, but hey the votes won. I think it was even coded for Theren, I think it was called the Therenborough Plaza on the inside or dumped you in Therenborough on the day it opened.
IIRC maybe it's a system limitation that there can only be one plaza per province, and spreading tables everywhere was equally tricky?
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
IIRC maybe it's a system limitation that there can only be one plaza per province, and spreading tables everywhere was equally tricky?
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
I'm not going to go into the mechanics of how the system is setup as GM Socharis developed the system and did a wonderful job on it. However, let me play devil's advocate for a moment?
Creating an area like the plaza is no simple 2-3 hour task, it involves many things behind the scenes. Several times in the past, the Trader team has been told, "If we had tables in (insert town/city), we would definitely use them!". Several other Traders agree and we stop some project we are working on because of the numerous requests and go make the guild a new area (Ratha anyone?). Then we open it and get a thank you or two but don't worry because we had 5-6 Traders AT LEAST that wanted it. In efforts to see how well areas are used, we have tools that tell how often areas are rented and I can tell you that Ratha's tables are rarely used compared to the promises on the boards of them being needed. There is no way that 5 different Traders have ever rented them in a given month past the first couple of months that they opened.
This is NOT to say that we don't want to make things that the guild wants, but we also have to decide if you really want it, or if it's just someone mentioning it and people agreeing because they just aren't completely opposed to the idea. I never mind doing the work if it is something that players will truly use and it is within my abilities, but it isn't much fun to do it when you spend a lot of time and then see a system or area just sit there either.
Disclaimer: I am not saying that Theren will never get a plaza. It is just me commenting on the current trend and wondering if it will really be used much.
Best Regards,
~GM Arnimas
"Wealth is not his that has it, but his who enjoys it."
-Benjamin Franklin
Creating an area like the plaza is no simple 2-3 hour task, it involves many things behind the scenes. Several times in the past, the Trader team has been told, "If we had tables in (insert town/city), we would definitely use them!". Several other Traders agree and we stop some project we are working on because of the numerous requests and go make the guild a new area (Ratha anyone?). Then we open it and get a thank you or two but don't worry because we had 5-6 Traders AT LEAST that wanted it. In efforts to see how well areas are used, we have tools that tell how often areas are rented and I can tell you that Ratha's tables are rarely used compared to the promises on the boards of them being needed. There is no way that 5 different Traders have ever rented them in a given month past the first couple of months that they opened.
This is NOT to say that we don't want to make things that the guild wants, but we also have to decide if you really want it, or if it's just someone mentioning it and people agreeing because they just aren't completely opposed to the idea. I never mind doing the work if it is something that players will truly use and it is within my abilities, but it isn't much fun to do it when you spend a lot of time and then see a system or area just sit there either.
Disclaimer: I am not saying that Theren will never get a plaza. It is just me commenting on the current trend and wondering if it will really be used much.
Best Regards,
~GM Arnimas
"Wealth is not his that has it, but his who enjoys it."
-Benjamin Franklin
Arnimas, thank you for the great reply, and the full explanation.
Personally, I am working on a bit of a chain of shops, so I have 3 traders, its a bit of a roleplay thing me and a few friends are working towards.
My main character is General of Theren Guard, so I never leave the area. I am sure there are many others who don't leave the area, mainly cus we can't swim back ;o)
I completely undestan the work that must go into this, and doing something like this would obviously have a knock on effect to other tasks you have in the list.
I can promise that I would take on 3 of these shops alone (if I get there before everyone else) as my plan would suit a lot better in Therenbrough.
How about we take this more to roleplay? Rally some support from the citizens, write to the Baron, ask brigades to back the idea? I'd even go so far as to have Theren Guard sponsor the whole thing
If we did the roleplay in game, and got enough people backing it, with comments like "I'd love it" and "I'd definately move there", then maybe we could talk on the matter? But yes, I totally see your point, its ok a couple of people asking, then nobody using it after so much work that would be needed
Somni
Personally, I am working on a bit of a chain of shops, so I have 3 traders, its a bit of a roleplay thing me and a few friends are working towards.
My main character is General of Theren Guard, so I never leave the area. I am sure there are many others who don't leave the area, mainly cus we can't swim back ;o)
I completely undestan the work that must go into this, and doing something like this would obviously have a knock on effect to other tasks you have in the list.
I can promise that I would take on 3 of these shops alone (if I get there before everyone else) as my plan would suit a lot better in Therenbrough.
How about we take this more to roleplay? Rally some support from the citizens, write to the Baron, ask brigades to back the idea? I'd even go so far as to have Theren Guard sponsor the whole thing
If we did the roleplay in game, and got enough people backing it, with comments like "I'd love it" and "I'd definately move there", then maybe we could talk on the matter? But yes, I totally see your point, its ok a couple of people asking, then nobody using it after so much work that would be needed
Somni
I'm not a trader. I would be interested in a few things though.
How many active traders are there? How interesting is it to play a trader? How rewarding is it to play a trader?
I don't ask this because I want to be a trader. I ask this because it seems pretty rare to actually see any traders.
This game is thick with moon mages. I love playing a moon mage. It seems many people see the rewards of playing one.
My point is: would it hurt to show some love to traders? Maybe there would be more of them if it was more (fill in the blank) to play a trader. Maybe there are many people playing traders and I hardly ever see them.
You're a moon mage: death should come as no surprise.
How many active traders are there? How interesting is it to play a trader? How rewarding is it to play a trader?
I don't ask this because I want to be a trader. I ask this because it seems pretty rare to actually see any traders.
This game is thick with moon mages. I love playing a moon mage. It seems many people see the rewards of playing one.
My point is: would it hurt to show some love to traders? Maybe there would be more of them if it was more (fill in the blank) to play a trader. Maybe there are many people playing traders and I hardly ever see them.
You're a moon mage: death should come as no surprise.
I have two traders, on separate accounts, that I had had a goal to have them 'co-own' a shop... Then I played them for a while, and learned how dreadfully different and how much re-learning and a learning curve there was. For me at the time, the newness of the trader guild wasn't enough to get over the hurdles, and the characters are now covered by the equivalent of electronic text dust.
They're also dwarves, and it seems like there is a bit of dwarf activity in the race: dwarf folder: subfolder. I think I may retry the dwarven duo soon.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
They're also dwarves, and it seems like there is a bit of dwarf activity in the race: dwarf folder: subfolder. I think I may retry the dwarven duo soon.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Regarding traders, I think I like them so much because they are so different. Being a trader is a totally different game to any other guild, and thats what I love about it.
Don't get me wrong, my warrior mage will always be my main character, but a trader is a very close second.
It depends how you play a trader. If you going to login for 8 hours a day and run a contracts script, then you will no doubt hate being a trader, its no fun, and you don't really make that much money, you might as well be a combat guild and go kill things.
If you work up the ranks by selling pouches to lock trading, and get a little shop going, its a bit like running your own business, and can be very profitable and enjoyable. Finding new goods to trade in, trying to stay on top of the market, judge prices going up and down, its great fun, and no need to be scripting X hours a day.
Personally I would like to see them have some ability to help them fight, given the small combat reqs they have, but its no biggy at all. The shops have helped make life easier for traders, but what its also done is allowed people to keep a trader on the back burner, and the shop to open when you set it to. I'd like to see some kind of gain for traders who stay in their shops and offer a full trader experience to their customers, but I have no idea what. Maybe if people got a reward for having the trader logged in and being in their shop, we wouldn't see so many just stock their shop and go back to playing the barbarian/cleric/thief?
Just my view, but in summary, I love the trader because its so different, and love having the shops for the way I want my traders to roleplay a business
Don't get me wrong, my warrior mage will always be my main character, but a trader is a very close second.
It depends how you play a trader. If you going to login for 8 hours a day and run a contracts script, then you will no doubt hate being a trader, its no fun, and you don't really make that much money, you might as well be a combat guild and go kill things.
If you work up the ranks by selling pouches to lock trading, and get a little shop going, its a bit like running your own business, and can be very profitable and enjoyable. Finding new goods to trade in, trying to stay on top of the market, judge prices going up and down, its great fun, and no need to be scripting X hours a day.
Personally I would like to see them have some ability to help them fight, given the small combat reqs they have, but its no biggy at all. The shops have helped make life easier for traders, but what its also done is allowed people to keep a trader on the back burner, and the shop to open when you set it to. I'd like to see some kind of gain for traders who stay in their shops and offer a full trader experience to their customers, but I have no idea what. Maybe if people got a reward for having the trader logged in and being in their shop, we wouldn't see so many just stock their shop and go back to playing the barbarian/cleric/thief?
Just my view, but in summary, I love the trader because its so different, and love having the shops for the way I want my traders to roleplay a business
<<How many active traders are there? How interesting is it to play a trader? How rewarding is it to play a trader?
What do you consider "active?" If you're talking about someone logs on and plays that character all day as a primary character, maybe 6 or 7.
How interesting is it? Not at all.
How rewarding is it? I guess that depends on you. Most hunters will be making more hourly than a Trader by the time they can hunt and skin celpeze.
<<I don't ask this because I want to be a trader. I ask this because it seems pretty rare to actually see any traders.
Oh, Traders are all around you. Fests are a particularly good time to spot Traders.
<<This game is thick with moon mages. I love playing a moon mage. It seems many people see the rewards of playing one.
Near-instant travel is an unbelievable perk.
<<My point is: would it hurt to show some love to traders? Maybe there would be more of them if it was more (fill in the blank) to play a trader. Maybe there are many people playing traders and I hardly ever see them.
People are split on what would make Traders better, however. If you simply turn Traders into another hunting guild, you may as well simply shut the guild down and offer Traders a chance to become members of another guild. But if it goes back to the situation where Traders make much more than most equivalently-trained hunters, you just get more Trader alts running contracts and mucking up the commodities system. Yet that's what about half of the full-timers want. The other half want more options in non-combat stuff, and that appears to be the direction development is likely to go.
What do you consider "active?" If you're talking about someone logs on and plays that character all day as a primary character, maybe 6 or 7.
How interesting is it? Not at all.
How rewarding is it? I guess that depends on you. Most hunters will be making more hourly than a Trader by the time they can hunt and skin celpeze.
<<I don't ask this because I want to be a trader. I ask this because it seems pretty rare to actually see any traders.
Oh, Traders are all around you. Fests are a particularly good time to spot Traders.
<<This game is thick with moon mages. I love playing a moon mage. It seems many people see the rewards of playing one.
Near-instant travel is an unbelievable perk.
<<My point is: would it hurt to show some love to traders? Maybe there would be more of them if it was more (fill in the blank) to play a trader. Maybe there are many people playing traders and I hardly ever see them.
People are split on what would make Traders better, however. If you simply turn Traders into another hunting guild, you may as well simply shut the guild down and offer Traders a chance to become members of another guild. But if it goes back to the situation where Traders make much more than most equivalently-trained hunters, you just get more Trader alts running contracts and mucking up the commodities system. Yet that's what about half of the full-timers want. The other half want more options in non-combat stuff, and that appears to be the direction development is likely to go.
>>But if it goes back to the situation where Traders make much more than most equivalently-trained hunters, you just get more Trader alts running contracts and mucking up the commodities system.
I think the real challenge is getting them a slew of abilities that will allow them to excel more in combat than they do currently, more in crafting than nearly any other guild, and -- most directly addressing your point -- give them serious opportunities to make a lot of coin without simply giving them a bigger "press here for X coins" button (e.g., hunting, contracts).
I think it can be done. Shops have allowed traders much more access to discussing items with the main population, which opens up more opportunities for buying that super-widget low and selling high later. Giving them better furrier crates would allow them to buy up bundles from hunters in the field. Perhaps they could have access to a kind of guild contract system, where they are able to contract the aid of (PC) moon mages to help them deliver items. These are abilities that can net serious profit, but only for those paying attention.
>>If you simply turn Traders into another hunting guild, you may as well simply shut the guild down and offer Traders a chance to become members of another guild.
Just as a quick note -- I think it is possible to give good combat abilities without having enormous combat requirements. See: Moon Mages.
-- Player of Eyuve
I think the real challenge is getting them a slew of abilities that will allow them to excel more in combat than they do currently, more in crafting than nearly any other guild, and -- most directly addressing your point -- give them serious opportunities to make a lot of coin without simply giving them a bigger "press here for X coins" button (e.g., hunting, contracts).
I think it can be done. Shops have allowed traders much more access to discussing items with the main population, which opens up more opportunities for buying that super-widget low and selling high later. Giving them better furrier crates would allow them to buy up bundles from hunters in the field. Perhaps they could have access to a kind of guild contract system, where they are able to contract the aid of (PC) moon mages to help them deliver items. These are abilities that can net serious profit, but only for those paying attention.
>>If you simply turn Traders into another hunting guild, you may as well simply shut the guild down and offer Traders a chance to become members of another guild.
Just as a quick note -- I think it is possible to give good combat abilities without having enormous combat requirements. See: Moon Mages.
-- Player of Eyuve
>I think it can be done. Shops have allowed traders much more access to discussing items with the main population, which opens up more opportunities for buying that super-widget low and selling high later. Giving them better furrier crates would allow them to buy up bundles from hunters in the field. Perhaps they could have access to a kind of guild contract system, where they are able to contract the aid of (PC) moon mages to help them deliver items. These are abilities that can net serious profit, but only for those paying attention.
And smuggling through the Thieves...
Oh and in regard to Traders having more in combat... ahh not my suggestion. I think they need something a bit more interesting at a lower level. Cool factor without the huge coding/system requirements of something like the shop. POC, I think that should stay up there... maybe a POA, personally owned animal, at like 10 or 20, something close that would be easier?
I never got to far with my traders, so I may just never have seen first hand the cool factors.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
<<I think the real challenge is getting them a slew of abilities that will allow them to excel more in combat than they do currently, more in crafting than nearly any other guild, and -- most directly addressing your point -- give them serious opportunities to make a lot of coin without simply giving them a bigger "press here for X coins" button (e.g., hunting, contracts).
Commodities is supposed to be the new avenue for revenue, but I honestly can't see it being better than hunting or you'll just end up with four dozen Trader alts doing the Riverhaven to Crossing commodity run.
<<Just as a quick note -- I think it is possible to give good combat abilities without having enormous combat requirements. See: Moon Mages.
Moon Mages are magic primary and thus always going to be in a much better place than a non-prime guild because they have to be able to learn every magic skill well, including TM.
Commodities is supposed to be the new avenue for revenue, but I honestly can't see it being better than hunting or you'll just end up with four dozen Trader alts doing the Riverhaven to Crossing commodity run.
<<Just as a quick note -- I think it is possible to give good combat abilities without having enormous combat requirements. See: Moon Mages.
Moon Mages are magic primary and thus always going to be in a much better place than a non-prime guild because they have to be able to learn every magic skill well, including TM.
>>Commodities is supposed to be the new avenue for revenue, but I honestly can't see it being better than hunting or you'll just end up with four dozen Trader alts doing the Riverhaven to Crossing commodity run.
If it were me designing it, I'd make it so that it's better than hunting -- but only if you're paying attention. You might make the most profit on a given day by pulling out those kegs of ale you've had in a warehouse for months, or you might have to do a work order of weapons and rush it to Steelclaw Clan. My goal would be enough complexity that it would be difficult to script, because there'd be no simple "buy X here and sell it there" that would yield incredible profits every single time. (Those options would exist, but would be moderate compared to hunting.)
>>Moon Mages are magic primary and thus always going to be in a much better place than a non-prime guild because they have to be able to learn every magic skill well, including TM.
They don't have to learn TM to advance, due to the general magic requirements. Also, TM is just one skill -- which means it can be learned via teaching. It's entirely possible to have a high level MM with very low combats.
But what it boils down to is that the combat game is FUN, and a huge part of DR. I see no reason to exclude Traders. It is certainly possible to give them a slew of combat abilities but low requirements, so that they can take part if they choose.
-- Player of Eyuve
If it were me designing it, I'd make it so that it's better than hunting -- but only if you're paying attention. You might make the most profit on a given day by pulling out those kegs of ale you've had in a warehouse for months, or you might have to do a work order of weapons and rush it to Steelclaw Clan. My goal would be enough complexity that it would be difficult to script, because there'd be no simple "buy X here and sell it there" that would yield incredible profits every single time. (Those options would exist, but would be moderate compared to hunting.)
>>Moon Mages are magic primary and thus always going to be in a much better place than a non-prime guild because they have to be able to learn every magic skill well, including TM.
They don't have to learn TM to advance, due to the general magic requirements. Also, TM is just one skill -- which means it can be learned via teaching. It's entirely possible to have a high level MM with very low combats.
But what it boils down to is that the combat game is FUN, and a huge part of DR. I see no reason to exclude Traders. It is certainly possible to give them a slew of combat abilities but low requirements, so that they can take part if they choose.
-- Player of Eyuve
Reading the responses to my questions game me a couple ideas.
1) remove hunting requirements.
2) create an in-game method that allows traders a way to advertise. An board of some type in the different cities. With enough skill traders could have an advertisement in Theren for their shop in Shard. The board would list items in their shop and prices. A local board outside the market plaza would show items and prices as well as directions to the shop inside the plaza. The board would be updated via "runners". Customers would still need to go into the shop to buy an item, but it would be easier to shop for items.
You're a moon mage: death should come as no surprise.
1) remove hunting requirements.
2) create an in-game method that allows traders a way to advertise. An board of some type in the different cities. With enough skill traders could have an advertisement in Theren for their shop in Shard. The board would list items in their shop and prices. A local board outside the market plaza would show items and prices as well as directions to the shop inside the plaza. The board would be updated via "runners". Customers would still need to go into the shop to buy an item, but it would be easier to shop for items.
You're a moon mage: death should come as no surprise.
>>If it were me designing it, I'd make it so that it's better than hunting -- but only if you're paying attention. You might make the most profit on a given day by pulling out those kegs of ale you've had in a warehouse for months, or you might have to do a work order of weapons and rush it to Steelclaw Clan. My goal would be enough complexity that it would be difficult to script, because there'd be no simple "buy X here and sell it there" that would yield incredible profits every single time. (Those options would exist, but would be moderate compared to hunting.)
Any game system that can be designed and coded into DR can be scripted pretty easily.
*******
Malkien
Any game system that can be designed and coded into DR can be scripted pretty easily.
*******
Malkien
>>Any game system that can be designed and coded into DR can be scripted pretty easily.
Meh. There's a big difference between scripting well in combat to train many skills and scripting with cambrinth to lock Arcana. Yes, both can be done, but they take different levels of sophistication and time spent creating the script.
Yes, I would expect that any commodities system could be scripted. The goal would be to make it more difficult than "go here and buy X, go there and sell it."
-- Player of Eyuve
Meh. There's a big difference between scripting well in combat to train many skills and scripting with cambrinth to lock Arcana. Yes, both can be done, but they take different levels of sophistication and time spent creating the script.
Yes, I would expect that any commodities system could be scripted. The goal would be to make it more difficult than "go here and buy X, go there and sell it."
-- Player of Eyuve
We've gone waaaay off topic here. If you would like to continue this conversation, let's generate a new thread in the proper folder. Thanks!
Zairyche
DragonRealms Board Monitor
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Zairyche
DragonRealms Board Monitor
If you have questions or comments, please email me at (Mod-Zairyche@play.net) or Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at (DR-
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Shops in Therenborough for Traders of the North, I'd like this please, and willing to do the roleplay and work in game to try this. From what has been said, it is possible, so I suggest if people hear of anything in game, then please get behind it, and lets try to have a Plaza in Therenborough
