I never took part in the cabal uprising a while ago but I've always been interested in them. I suspect I have the same reason as all the other people who didn't bother, they weren't made official. Now that magic is practically complete again, and things are starting to fall in place, I think in a few weeks when valdrik gets back we should push for recognition once more. Valdrik said he was planning to work on elemental specialization, which to me it seems is essentially what cabals are, and since they have been lingering around so long it would make sense to implement them in some way.

As much as I dislike comparing things with other guilds it is hard not to take a look at moon mages and their sects, which are basically their version of cabals. They are dotted across elanthia, each with their own history, pre and post titles, spell bonuses, and cantrips which mostly require a small quest but are far superior to our own. These traits all add depth and a sense of direction for the people that wish to follow them, which to me is a highly desireable notion, and I feel the warrior mage guild would benfit greatly from such things.

~Sardric~

Back when hyram was guru he advised us all to push toward bringing cabals in to being, because if they started out as player-run then it would be a good base to start making them official. That was the uprising, when everyone started joining cabals and working on them etc. But it died.

~Sardric~

>>because hyram said they wouldnt be offical<<

Yep exactly. He meant well really, but I guess something got in the way of progress. I don't think we were ever informed of the exact reason why cabals weren't to become official though. Now, I've noticed that this thread isn't getting a great deal of attention, which is fair enough, that's the way the boards work, but I implore you as warrior mages to make one last stand for cabals. I'm not talking about protesting, rioting, PvP, PvGM, PvWhatever.. I'm talking about questioning Valdrik (no, not like the spanish inquisition ;P) or whomever it may concern, and showing that there is a widespread interest. Even if it doesn't work, at least we tried, and at least we'll know where we stand. I know I'm not the only Warrior Mage that cares about it.

~Sardric~

Well, speaking from working with the Steel Cabal, we basically gave up after a few tries with the GMs. We even made a Cabal ring with one of them at one point, he was about to release them to us, when word from above stopped him, that started the decline in Cabals.

-Iron

<<I think there is a broad interesting in cabals with all Warrior Mages

Then I'll correct your misconception. I'm not interested in them at all, and in fact oppose guild development staff resources being directed to such 'fringe' endeavors. Man-hours spent coding for the guild should be to the benefit of the whole guild, not one elemental fan club at a time.

>>I'm not interested in them at all

Heh, Nevy=Guild majority.

Actually, though, I'd have to agree with your sentiment that most of the guild isn't interested in Cabals. I don't even know if there are a majority of mages on the forums who favor cabals, and I believe if you just randomly asked most of the War Mages if they favored making Cabals a GM-sponsored thing they wouldn't know what you were talking about. Cabals were a forum phenomenon and I wouldn't be surprised if under 10% of the non-forum reading players have ever heard of a Cabal in terms of our Guild.

Plus with the Magic re-write, the way spells are being chosen have changed. I personally don't have more than 3 spells in any one book and am more a follower of funtionality and economy than any particular element.

~Katrenos

I personally don't see why Cabals would have to be something that 90% of all WMs got involved with anyway. DR as a whole needs more options, not just for each guild, but for every individual. Aside from the choice of enhancing a non-standard skill that doesn't make much of an impact to the character, everyone's current paths are pretty linear. Moon mages have taken a reasonable step away from that dullness, but for the most part, everyone is still boxed in.

I'd like to see clans, political parties, countless creation skills, academic conclaves, religious sects, you name it. Cabals could be just one choice out of many, and an option that Warrior Mages can take - or leave.

What I am hearing is that some people don't want these things, because they don't apply to everyone across the board. Of course they don't. By their very nature, their very value, they apply only to people who find them interesting and suitable to their character's path. If everyone did them, they would lose their function.

Does that mean we should never apply GM time to something that isn't used by the majority of the players? In that case, we should not see the 100th level quest for many years yet. Togball was created, and I think it's a wonderful thing for the gameworld - even though the number of people playing Togs, and playing Togs that want to play ball, is pretty limited compared to the rest of the population. Was it a waste to devote GM time to it?

I don't think we can make that sort of blanket judgement about the worth of a project based solely on the number of people it will involve. There are other issues to consider, such as the need for 'sideways' expansion in the game and for more choices in character development.

---Brett

Well said Brett, some very good points there. It's obvious that not everyone is interested in cabals, but there is a percentage of us that still are. I can completely understand why a person would rather not focus themselves on a certain element, but I beleive when Valdrik spoke of specialization he mentioned that people who opted to remain a general element mage would still have some kind of benefit. But anyway, cabals would at least offer a set of career choices to broaden the guild. I think most people who are opposed to this tend to think that joining a cabal would restrict you to the corresponding element, but I doubt that was ever an intended feature.

Moon mage sects don't really restrict them in any way, they can still cast any spell they like and as far as I know they don't get penalties. It's just a road you can choose to follow if you so desire, much like Brett was saying.

~Sardric~