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Do the GM's have a plan for evening out the those people that sit and afk script MD to 800+ ranks with those that actually worked hard at the keyboard for their 300+ MD? It would'nt seem fair to set the benchmark of quality in enchanting really high because of some afk suedo-ninja scripting monkeys. I hate the idea of people getting rewarded for cheating. I think combat weapon and armor enchants need to be weighted fairly heavily on weapon and armor ranks for that reason. Im hoping someone that has scripted magic up to the extreme and only learned the basic ammount of weapon and armor skills to circle wont be able to take advantage of something as special as enchants. They should'nt be allowed to make the best enchants.
"I hate when mimes get in your face and don't say anything."
"Yeah, I usually kick them in the 'nads and they say something.
Usually it's ooh...unh...aahh."
Beavis & Butthead
I realize there are people with 800+ in MD that got it at the keyboard. I have one thing to say, Good lord you've got alot of time on your hands. I Guess i mostly just wanted to hear the GM's thoughts. I imagine the topic has been mention. Maybe they got an idea how they will make it fair for everyone. I guess i just want some reassurance that Warmage Scripto wont have the best enchanting skills.
"You nut-hook! Die!"
"You nut-hook! Die!"
I have actually brought up this issue before. It is a serious one. Yes, various skills have been scripted, afk and otherwise, from DR's inception.
However, and let us be honest -- several of our own HEAVILY afk-scripted(+had multiple players behind the wheel) in order to train MD back when it was incredibly (and unintentionally) easy to learn, getting into the 800-1000 rank mark -- years ago.
I must add my concern that the enchanting system might allow these people to have an EXTREME advantage over the mages of today, or any mage that has been trained up or created over the past few years.
Meanne is an older character, but I never really 'abused' MD to get it into the high ranks (for fast leveling purposes).
Basically what I'm saying is that there should definitely be realistic caps on how much MD can factor into the Enchanting system, considering that in the earlier days, WMs took the skill to EXTREME levels that can no longer really be matched by todays mages.
What should the cap be, if they consider one? Anywhere from 400-600 ranks. Anything above that -- shouldn't count.
I don't expect to make any friends with this post, but it's the truth.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
However, and let us be honest -- several of our own HEAVILY afk-scripted(+had multiple players behind the wheel) in order to train MD back when it was incredibly (and unintentionally) easy to learn, getting into the 800-1000 rank mark -- years ago.
I must add my concern that the enchanting system might allow these people to have an EXTREME advantage over the mages of today, or any mage that has been trained up or created over the past few years.
Meanne is an older character, but I never really 'abused' MD to get it into the high ranks (for fast leveling purposes).
Basically what I'm saying is that there should definitely be realistic caps on how much MD can factor into the Enchanting system, considering that in the earlier days, WMs took the skill to EXTREME levels that can no longer really be matched by todays mages.
What should the cap be, if they consider one? Anywhere from 400-600 ranks. Anything above that -- shouldn't count.
I don't expect to make any friends with this post, but it's the truth.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
I understand the concern, it just seems to me that if you say Ok, devices were easily scripted so 600 ranks caps out the devices portion of the equation. The rest is based on mech. Yay for the person who scripted mechlore to 800. Ok ok mech's no good lets cap it at 600 too. Yay to the person who scripted scholarship. Scholarship would have been tough pre spellbooks but people that scripted in teams also taught and or listened for hours on end as well.
Short of creating a new skill that everyone has to start at zero you won't be able to stop a lucky scripter from benefiting. Starting everyone from zero would in some respects be fair but i would feel jipped having hoped for and in some regards trained for an enchantment system for years.
The game is at a tough point for new creation systems. The gm's can either set the difficulty at a level where a good number of people will have the product capped from day one. Or you set the best possible product so difficult in terms of ranks to acquire that younger mages feel too discouraged to even try.
Perhaps some sort of counter system for products made could level the playing field making sure that the person making the best has not only the ranks but has made the most product. Ofcourse then you have markets flooded due to mass production or creators destroying their own product to keep the quanity down. A year or two goes by and once again new mages are discouraged because so and so has made 50,000 super wands so how can I catch up.
I understand wanting the balance and safeguards to be there. I just can't imagine a possible solution.
Taf
<<Do the GM's have a plan for evening out the those people that sit and afk script MD to 800+ ranks with those that actually worked hard at the keyboard for their 300+ MD?
It would be unfair to undermine skills by making high ranks irrelevant. Those with the highest skills SHOULD be the best at any endeavor in which the skills are used. All of the skills that would logically be appropriate to most enchantments would seem to have been easily scriptable ... if you don't use MD, what would you use? PM? Certainly while lore skills may play a part, enchanting is primarily a magical process so magical skills should be the dominant factor.
It would be unfair to undermine skills by making high ranks irrelevant. Those with the highest skills SHOULD be the best at any endeavor in which the skills are used. All of the skills that would logically be appropriate to most enchantments would seem to have been easily scriptable ... if you don't use MD, what would you use? PM? Certainly while lore skills may play a part, enchanting is primarily a magical process so magical skills should be the dominant factor.
No matter what skills you use for the enchanting formula, there are problems with it.
Combat skills: Weapons and armor.
Combat scripts, and multi-plays get these well above the par.
PM, harness, PP, MD:
Script-tastic.
TM:
Same as combat.
Scholarship:
Spellbooks, beofre spellbooks it was patterns for a month or three, and again, multiplay can add to any of these skills.
Mech:
Mmmm, freeze-bucket-ey.
See what I mean?
I personally use a ton and a half of ATK scripts. I have plenty that train skills, so I don't get a hand cramp typing in the same commands over and over, not to mention letting me talk and such while doing something you'd normally be able to talk during. I mean, can you fold paper and speak at the same time? I thought so.
Accipam is by no means a powerhouse. I've had fun playing him, and he's halfway decent at a few things. My MD is in the 200s, with scholarship and mech in the 140s. I don't expect to be hitting any caps, or monopolizing the market, I just expect to be able to make something good enough that I'll probably use it pretty frequently, and friends will appreciate the boost from time to time.
-Accipam
Combat skills: Weapons and armor.
Combat scripts, and multi-plays get these well above the par.
PM, harness, PP, MD:
Script-tastic.
TM:
Same as combat.
Scholarship:
Spellbooks, beofre spellbooks it was patterns for a month or three, and again, multiplay can add to any of these skills.
Mech:
Mmmm, freeze-bucket-ey.
See what I mean?
I personally use a ton and a half of ATK scripts. I have plenty that train skills, so I don't get a hand cramp typing in the same commands over and over, not to mention letting me talk and such while doing something you'd normally be able to talk during. I mean, can you fold paper and speak at the same time? I thought so.
Accipam is by no means a powerhouse. I've had fun playing him, and he's halfway decent at a few things. My MD is in the 200s, with scholarship and mech in the 140s. I don't expect to be hitting any caps, or monopolizing the market, I just expect to be able to make something good enough that I'll probably use it pretty frequently, and friends will appreciate the boost from time to time.
-Accipam
The easiest way to deal with this is to introduce an brand new skill (maybe enchanting lore?). That way MD and ML play a portion of it, but need to have XYZ skill to implement it.
Just a thought.
Woodcubb of Ilithi
You have crystal blue eyes. You are bald, with dark brown skin. You are clean shaven. You have a tattoo of a huge Taisidonian pearl nestled inside an opened oyster on your arm.
Just a thought.
Woodcubb of Ilithi
You have crystal blue eyes. You are bald, with dark brown skin. You are clean shaven. You have a tattoo of a huge Taisidonian pearl nestled inside an opened oyster on your arm.
Yea but if that happens and the only way to get it is actually enchanting. Sure the first 100-200 ranks arent bad(maybe assuming costs arent to deep/materials to far out of the way). But what happens when you get to higher ranks and it becomes a day endeavor for 1 rank in Enchanting lore a day full of expensive enchanting work. Also assuming that enchantes get progressively harder or you get more as your enchante lore skill moves up that give more exp per make. I think you all need to not worry about whos ranks in what because face it if your not someone playing alot or have 5 other guys play you around the clock or your not on TF your never gonna beat the guys that are anyway even if its a new skill. So making a new skill to try to thwart power gamers is really in the end only hurting yourself. Cause lets face it the power gamers are gonna beat your pants off with this skill to as soon as they find the fastest/cheapest/quickest way to make and distribute/sell/script whatever it is.
PS
Whoever complained about not using a bug/abuse system to gain uber ranks in MD when everyone else did. Thats another reason the power gamer will beat you. They dont care about abusing the system if its a bug that everyone else is using or not its all a means to an end. Which is getting skills and having ranks because in the end thats all that matters, not how you got the ranks but how many you have.
PS
Whoever complained about not using a bug/abuse system to gain uber ranks in MD when everyone else did. Thats another reason the power gamer will beat you. They dont care about abusing the system if its a bug that everyone else is using or not its all a means to an end. Which is getting skills and having ranks because in the end thats all that matters, not how you got the ranks but how many you have.
I am definately in favor of enchanting being a new skill. It seems a sophisticated and in-depth enough skill to have a category all its own. Something this big and so long-awaited for the guild should start from scratch. I think very few (there will always be some) could complain about having to earn their ranks and bennefit from their labor from zero since not a single wm in game has ever had any significant experience in enchanting an item (unlike forgers who currently have enormous forging exp and would be slighted if the new forging system doesn't take their prior knowledge/exp into account). Fair enough? I have to agree.
"What is a warrior's worth, when there is no one left to fight?" - Lord Seihjin Verackai
"What is a warrior's worth, when there is no one left to fight?" - Lord Seihjin Verackai
Im gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there. First of all
>>As people have stated before, you can count on lore skills playing a good part, as well as MD. The other magic skills will also probably play a part. As my thought process is going right now, if weapon skills do play a part, it probably wont be as significant as those other skills. A lot can change between now and then, so don't sweat too much over it right now :). One of the important parts of any system is that it is accessible and useable by a majority of the people who it's intended for. I'm not going to put all the horrendous man hours that it will take into this project, just so only 1% of the guild can use it. Granted, a lot of the powers of Enchanting are being designed for higher levels, but I'm hoping to include a wide range of skill levels into this.
>Valdrik
So sure there could be a lore or lore skills. But MD is going to play a good part of it no matter what according to that so doesnt really matter. After the lore split Im sure a few lores might play into it. They probably arent going to make an enchanting lore though. Probably get rolled into artistry or metalworking or something so theres more ways to work it than having to fail/make enchantes to get them.
>>As people have stated before, you can count on lore skills playing a good part, as well as MD. The other magic skills will also probably play a part. As my thought process is going right now, if weapon skills do play a part, it probably wont be as significant as those other skills. A lot can change between now and then, so don't sweat too much over it right now :). One of the important parts of any system is that it is accessible and useable by a majority of the people who it's intended for. I'm not going to put all the horrendous man hours that it will take into this project, just so only 1% of the guild can use it. Granted, a lot of the powers of Enchanting are being designed for higher levels, but I'm hoping to include a wide range of skill levels into this.
>Valdrik
So sure there could be a lore or lore skills. But MD is going to play a good part of it no matter what according to that so doesnt really matter. After the lore split Im sure a few lores might play into it. They probably arent going to make an enchanting lore though. Probably get rolled into artistry or metalworking or something so theres more ways to work it than having to fail/make enchantes to get them.
<< I'm not going to put all the horrendous man hours that it will take into this project, just so only 1% of the guild can use it. Granted, a lot of the powers of Enchanting are being designed for higher levels, but I'm hoping to include a wide range of skill levels into this.
>>
Its a little comforting that many different skills will play a role. In dealing with MD, just how large of a gap would you estimate there is between those I've been hearing about with 800-1000 ranks of MD and people at expert or savant level? If there is a large gap than I can only wonder how the equation will handle such a discrepency; 1% of the wms with that high of skill will either be extremely overqualified by being way over the caps (will there be caps?) or the bar will have to be raised to some ungodly number to make those few people have to work for something too.
"What is a warrior's worth, when there is no one left to fight?" - Lord Seihjin Verackai
>>
Its a little comforting that many different skills will play a role. In dealing with MD, just how large of a gap would you estimate there is between those I've been hearing about with 800-1000 ranks of MD and people at expert or savant level? If there is a large gap than I can only wonder how the equation will handle such a discrepency; 1% of the wms with that high of skill will either be extremely overqualified by being way over the caps (will there be caps?) or the bar will have to be raised to some ungodly number to make those few people have to work for something too.
"What is a warrior's worth, when there is no one left to fight?" - Lord Seihjin Verackai
<<1% of the wms with that high of skill will either be extremely overqualified by being way over the caps (will there be caps?) or the bar will have to be raised to some ungodly number to make those few people have to work for something too.>>
I'd assume 1% will be overqualified for most things (no not myself), and some enchantments will be up there so high they won't have the overall skills to do so. Just because someone has a huge amount of MD doesn't nessicarily mean that their MD skill will overcome all other skills needed to do enchanting. One thing I don't think people are paying much attention too is that learning the system and working with it will probably be like half of the finished product. If you look at moon mage enchanting or forging, you can have all the skills in the world but if you don't spend alot of time figuring out what affects what and how things work within that system that person with less ranks than you can put out a better product than you are ever going too.
Beliel
I'd assume 1% will be overqualified for most things (no not myself), and some enchantments will be up there so high they won't have the overall skills to do so. Just because someone has a huge amount of MD doesn't nessicarily mean that their MD skill will overcome all other skills needed to do enchanting. One thing I don't think people are paying much attention too is that learning the system and working with it will probably be like half of the finished product. If you look at moon mage enchanting or forging, you can have all the skills in the world but if you don't spend alot of time figuring out what affects what and how things work within that system that person with less ranks than you can put out a better product than you are ever going too.
Beliel
Something I would like to see is different skills have more influence in different enchants. That MD doesn't overqualify those people for everything automatically. It brings more variance into the enchanting system too. So MageBob can make the best FiryEnchantA, but can't make IcyEnchantA worth anything. But MageJoe can make the best IcyEnchantB, but not so great FiryEnchantB.
Sigilist Opieus Tuer ~ Human Warrior Mage
The enemy invariably attacks on one of two occasions:
1. When you're ready for them.
2. When you're not ready for them..
Sigilist Opieus Tuer ~ Human Warrior Mage
The enemy invariably attacks on one of two occasions:
1. When you're ready for them.
2. When you're not ready for them..
<< I am definately in favor of enchanting being a new skill. It seems a sophisticated and in-depth enough skill to have a category all its own. Something this big and so long-awaited for the guild should start from scratch. I think very few (there will always be some) could complain about having to earn their ranks and bennefit from their labor from zero since not a single wm in game has ever had any significant experience in enchanting an item (unlike forgers who currently have enormous forging exp and would be slighted if the new forging system doesn't take their prior knowledge/exp into account). Fair enough? I have to agree.? >>
1 year from now it'll be abused and the same complaints will be heard.
In any given situation, you provide a reward and people will exploit it. It is human nature. What needs to happen is a more efficient method of stopping the exploitation. Not the invention of another skill. Optimally, a new skill combined with a "limitation factor" would be an option.
Imagine creating "Enchant Lore". You can only enchant once every day. Mr. Script0r is suddenly on the same playing ground with everyone else.
Beyond that I don't personally know what to suggest. Please keep in mind the old saying, "Build a better mouse trap, and the world will build a better idiot.". Well that is a combination of two old adages, but I think that best describes the situation. Whatever response Solomon and Co. comes up with, it will be defeated to one degree or another in less time then it took for them to develop it.
Be rational not emotional people. I made that mistake when I returned to DR after being gone for 5+ years and all it got me was a bunch of removed posts and 10 points on my next blood pressure reading.
Elriic Melnebone
~For the Balance!
~I have returned!
1 year from now it'll be abused and the same complaints will be heard.
In any given situation, you provide a reward and people will exploit it. It is human nature. What needs to happen is a more efficient method of stopping the exploitation. Not the invention of another skill. Optimally, a new skill combined with a "limitation factor" would be an option.
Imagine creating "Enchant Lore". You can only enchant once every day. Mr. Script0r is suddenly on the same playing ground with everyone else.
Beyond that I don't personally know what to suggest. Please keep in mind the old saying, "Build a better mouse trap, and the world will build a better idiot.". Well that is a combination of two old adages, but I think that best describes the situation. Whatever response Solomon and Co. comes up with, it will be defeated to one degree or another in less time then it took for them to develop it.
Be rational not emotional people. I made that mistake when I returned to DR after being gone for 5+ years and all it got me was a bunch of removed posts and 10 points on my next blood pressure reading.
Elriic Melnebone
~For the Balance!
~I have returned!
<<Be rational not emotional people. I made that mistake when I returned to DR after being gone for 5+ years and all it got me was a bunch of removed posts and 10 points on my next blood pressure reading>>
I certainly hope you didn't read emotion into that, there really wasn't any. We may disagree, but I think proposing a new skill is rational, just not the only answer nor what everyone will agree with ;)
<<In any given situation, you provide a reward and people will exploit it. It is human nature. What needs to happen is a more efficient method of stopping the exploitation. Not the invention of another skill. >>
That may be, but with the new rewrites and experience on the GM staff with system abuse etc... I don't think it will be nearly to the degree it was exploited in the past. That in addition to people all starting from scratch make for a more balanced release in my opinion.
Brawling was a new skill added. Is this argument to bennefit my character? Nah. Just like brawling, I doubt I will ever have the time or motivation to compete with someone who is willing to sit in front of the computer for 6 hours a day or more trying to be the best at an IG skill. At least that person did not start off with an enormous advantage however, so I think it is more balanced.
In general, I like to see is new PC becoming the best or at least near elite level at something as opposed to the same high circle characters being recycled as the elite in everything. I know that will not happen completely but anytime a new skill is released there is the potential for new characters to become very efficient.
From what I hear, the career system will cater to this, forcing players to make a decision on what to specialize in and being rewarded accordingly, though I am hoping enchanting will be similar.
"What is a warrior's worth, when there is no one left to fight?" - Lord Seihjin Verackai
I certainly hope you didn't read emotion into that, there really wasn't any. We may disagree, but I think proposing a new skill is rational, just not the only answer nor what everyone will agree with ;)
<<In any given situation, you provide a reward and people will exploit it. It is human nature. What needs to happen is a more efficient method of stopping the exploitation. Not the invention of another skill. >>
That may be, but with the new rewrites and experience on the GM staff with system abuse etc... I don't think it will be nearly to the degree it was exploited in the past. That in addition to people all starting from scratch make for a more balanced release in my opinion.
Brawling was a new skill added. Is this argument to bennefit my character? Nah. Just like brawling, I doubt I will ever have the time or motivation to compete with someone who is willing to sit in front of the computer for 6 hours a day or more trying to be the best at an IG skill. At least that person did not start off with an enormous advantage however, so I think it is more balanced.
In general, I like to see is new PC becoming the best or at least near elite level at something as opposed to the same high circle characters being recycled as the elite in everything. I know that will not happen completely but anytime a new skill is released there is the potential for new characters to become very efficient.
From what I hear, the career system will cater to this, forcing players to make a decision on what to specialize in and being rewarded accordingly, though I am hoping enchanting will be similar.
"What is a warrior's worth, when there is no one left to fight?" - Lord Seihjin Verackai
I always enjoy coming to this folder and reading everyone's inputs into enchanting (I hope our team does as well). The GMs have put in time on this topic and many prelim type stuff has been done. However, enchanting is a year out from happening. I really like the counter idea and an enchanting skill. I would like for the enchanting skill to be a magic skill and not a lore skill though.
Who knows what evil lurks in the minds of our team. I am confident they will do their best to make the system enjoyable.
Trebber
Who knows what evil lurks in the minds of our team. I am confident they will do their best to make the system enjoyable.
Trebber
I personally oppose the idea of an 'enchanting' skill, as the usefulness of the currenly existing skills appropriate for the task is already strained at best. No reason to make them even more irrelevant because some people seem to be jealous that they aren't the ones with the highest skills and want the playing field leveled for their own self interests.
I think that an enchanting skill would be a little to limiting. I'd much rather see a lore skill that expand into other abilities and such. Magic skills as they are cover just about ever aspect of magic the way it works in DR. A lore skill that does not rely on mana but could be learned through enchanting and maybe even the AP ability would be a nice addition.
"Oderint dum metuant."
"Oderint dum metuant."
I don't care much about the seperate "Enchanting" skill proposition.
<<Its a little comforting that many different skills will play a role. In dealing with MD, just how large of a gap would you estimate there is between those I've been hearing about with 800-1000 ranks of MD and people at expert or savant level? If there is a large gap than I can only wonder how the equation will handle such a discrepency; 1% of the wms with that high of skill will either be extremely overqualified by being way over the caps (will there be caps?) or the bar will have to be raised to some ungodly number to make those few people have to work for something too.>>
Exactly, Seihjin. The discrepency gap between those who abused MD in the past and the high level Warrior Mages of today is still sick. Those who abused it then have often double, or TRIPLE the MD ranks of most 90+ Warrior Mages "today". It is a HUGE difference, and it DOES need to be accounted for.
I'm not saying we should cripple the system because of these people, but look at how Enchanting for MMs is built. There are caps on how much MD factors into the enchanting equation, at what rank more MD ranks don't really help that much. I'll assume that they looked at MM's MD skill before setting the bar. I believe the concern is making sure that when our GMs review equations and such when it comes time to make Warrior Mage enchanting -- that they recognize said discrepancy (with our MD skill) and don't build the system around them.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
<<Its a little comforting that many different skills will play a role. In dealing with MD, just how large of a gap would you estimate there is between those I've been hearing about with 800-1000 ranks of MD and people at expert or savant level? If there is a large gap than I can only wonder how the equation will handle such a discrepency; 1% of the wms with that high of skill will either be extremely overqualified by being way over the caps (will there be caps?) or the bar will have to be raised to some ungodly number to make those few people have to work for something too.>>
Exactly, Seihjin. The discrepency gap between those who abused MD in the past and the high level Warrior Mages of today is still sick. Those who abused it then have often double, or TRIPLE the MD ranks of most 90+ Warrior Mages "today". It is a HUGE difference, and it DOES need to be accounted for.
I'm not saying we should cripple the system because of these people, but look at how Enchanting for MMs is built. There are caps on how much MD factors into the enchanting equation, at what rank more MD ranks don't really help that much. I'll assume that they looked at MM's MD skill before setting the bar. I believe the concern is making sure that when our GMs review equations and such when it comes time to make Warrior Mage enchanting -- that they recognize said discrepancy (with our MD skill) and don't build the system around them.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
Until it was announced that a bug had been found, nobody, including the staff, knew that MD was 'broken'. It was how the system worked as far as everyone was concerned, and nobody was 'abusing' anything. They were simply USING the system as provided. Stop using charged terminology to make the folks who's ranks you appear by these posts to be jealous of sound like cheaters.
>>Until it was announced that a bug had been found, nobody, including the staff, knew that MD was 'broken'
Heh, for years everyone knew it was easy magic ranks. Especially to those who scripted. Even back then, people would make comments about high MD ranks. Maybe some didn't know it was "broken" but they sure knew it was the easy way to level with no target req after 120 (I think) or so.
Mia
There is nothing more liberating than dancing barefoot.
Heh, for years everyone knew it was easy magic ranks. Especially to those who scripted. Even back then, people would make comments about high MD ranks. Maybe some didn't know it was "broken" but they sure knew it was the easy way to level with no target req after 120 (I think) or so.
Mia
There is nothing more liberating than dancing barefoot.
>>So? It was the system as provided. Using it for what it was didn't constitute abuse. It was the way the skill was trained. If training that skill was abuse, then training any skill is abuse
Yep, just get what ya can while ya can, till the GM's notice. Then systems are changed so everyone is screwed. Gotta love the war mage mentality at times.
Mia
There is nothing more liberating than dancing barefoot.
Yep, just get what ya can while ya can, till the GM's notice. Then systems are changed so everyone is screwed. Gotta love the war mage mentality at times.
Mia
There is nothing more liberating than dancing barefoot.
<<Yep, just get what ya can while ya can, till the GM's notice. Then systems are changed so everyone is screwed. Gotta love the war mage mentality at times.
I wasn't aware that training offended your delicate sensibilities. I guess I should stop my origami abuse, and my TM abuse and my swimming abuse and my climbing abuse and my armor abuse and ...
I wasn't aware that training offended your delicate sensibilities. I guess I should stop my origami abuse, and my TM abuse and my swimming abuse and my climbing abuse and my armor abuse and ...
<<I wasn't aware that training offended your delicate sensibilities. I guess I should stop my origami abuse, and my TM abuse and my swimming abuse and my climbing abuse and my armor abuse and ... >>
. . . yes you should mister. Oh, and stop that foraging abuse to while yer at it.
(shakes finger at you)
Woodcubb of Ilithi
You have crystal blue eyes. You are bald, with dark brown skin. You are clean shaven. You have a tattoo of a huge Taisidonian pearl nestled inside an opened oyster on your arm.
. . . yes you should mister. Oh, and stop that foraging abuse to while yer at it.
(shakes finger at you)
Woodcubb of Ilithi
You have crystal blue eyes. You are bald, with dark brown skin. You are clean shaven. You have a tattoo of a huge Taisidonian pearl nestled inside an opened oyster on your arm.
I'm not jealous -- I have pride in my character, a character that I trained, and didn't buy. I could never be jealous of such a thing.
<<<I wasn't aware that training offended your delicate sensibilities. I guess I should stop my origami abuse, and my TM abuse and my swimming abuse and my climbing abuse and my armor abuse and >>
I see you missed the point. Completely. Even back then, as Miabelle pointed out, those who abused rune/MD heavily were looked down upon, even before the GMs addressed the issue, the players knew.
But the point of my post was not that I have contempt for these people (which I do), but that I am worried that a major system is going to cater to them, and not the real warrior mages. Either way, it's in the GMs hands, my point has been made and that's all I could hope to accomplish.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
<<<I wasn't aware that training offended your delicate sensibilities. I guess I should stop my origami abuse, and my TM abuse and my swimming abuse and my climbing abuse and my armor abuse and >>
I see you missed the point. Completely. Even back then, as Miabelle pointed out, those who abused rune/MD heavily were looked down upon, even before the GMs addressed the issue, the players knew.
But the point of my post was not that I have contempt for these people (which I do), but that I am worried that a major system is going to cater to them, and not the real warrior mages. Either way, it's in the GMs hands, my point has been made and that's all I could hope to accomplish.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
<<Even back then, as Miabelle pointed out, those who abused rune/MD heavily were looked down
And what exactly constituted abuse as opposed to training? Were they doing something different than everyone else? Were they using some bugged item? Were they using a command or verb the rest of us didn't use? Given that there was only one real way to work the skill, and that pretty much everyone did it the same way, how are some folk who had greater than zero ranks abusers and others not? Because they had more time to play? Because they worked harder?
I didn't miss the point. I disagreed.
And what exactly constituted abuse as opposed to training? Were they doing something different than everyone else? Were they using some bugged item? Were they using a command or verb the rest of us didn't use? Given that there was only one real way to work the skill, and that pretty much everyone did it the same way, how are some folk who had greater than zero ranks abusers and others not? Because they had more time to play? Because they worked harder?
I didn't miss the point. I disagreed.
>>But the point of my post was not that I have contempt for these people (which I do),
But its one of your underlying reasons, others wise it wouldnt be a problem at all.
> but that I am worried that a major system is going to cater to them, and not the real warrior mages.
Its a system there releasing to the WM guild, its going to cater to 'all' WMs not just WMs with 500+ MD, its not a club where if you dont have 500+ MD you cant use it. Just cause you think you wont be able to profit or use it because someone trained MD which is probably only going to be 1/2 of the equation if that since the lore split will put many more lores at there disposal to include thus making it maybe like 1/4 if they get 3 lores to play in (scholar/artistry/metalworking) are 3 that come to mind right off. So if I was you Id be abusing the mechlore system. BTW everyone is a real WM, even if they dont live up to your standards of MD gain. Only sellers cant have claims to fame of real <insert character here>
But its one of your underlying reasons, others wise it wouldnt be a problem at all.
> but that I am worried that a major system is going to cater to them, and not the real warrior mages.
Its a system there releasing to the WM guild, its going to cater to 'all' WMs not just WMs with 500+ MD, its not a club where if you dont have 500+ MD you cant use it. Just cause you think you wont be able to profit or use it because someone trained MD which is probably only going to be 1/2 of the equation if that since the lore split will put many more lores at there disposal to include thus making it maybe like 1/4 if they get 3 lores to play in (scholar/artistry/metalworking) are 3 that come to mind right off. So if I was you Id be abusing the mechlore system. BTW everyone is a real WM, even if they dont live up to your standards of MD gain. Only sellers cant have claims to fame of real <insert character here>
<<And what exactly constituted abuse as opposed to training? Were they doing something different than everyone else? Were they using some bugged item? Were they using a command or verb the rest of us didn't use? Given that there was only one real way to work the skill, and that pretty much everyone did it the same way, how are some folk who had greater than zero ranks abusers and others not? Because they had more time to play? Because they worked harder?>>
Because they leveled solely off of MD ranks, because they had multiple people playing their characters/working MD around the clock in some clases, just to juggernaut up the circle ladder -- once again, almost SOLELY on their MD ranks. This was under the old requirements, mind you.
But yes, you did miss the point, entirely, I'm afraid.
I don't know why I bother posting anymore.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
Because they leveled solely off of MD ranks, because they had multiple people playing their characters/working MD around the clock in some clases, just to juggernaut up the circle ladder -- once again, almost SOLELY on their MD ranks. This was under the old requirements, mind you.
But yes, you did miss the point, entirely, I'm afraid.
I don't know why I bother posting anymore.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
Since DR is a constantly changing game, players must change along with the systems. It's not fair for more experienced players to be penalized for higher ranks of MD (Or whatever skill) just because it was 'easier'.
Some system were easy to learn at one point. Does that make them less meaningful? Absolutely not. If some people scripted MD, then they might have been caught afk scripting. If afk scripting was allowed back during that time period, then those players were still playing under the rules.
This argument is similar to saying (example) - Hi, I would like you to change skinning back so I can learn from it. Oh, but all those higher circle people learned skinning when it was easy, NOOO!!11 etc.
-Ruffles
P! P is what people do when they see us! HAHAHAHAHA!
Some system were easy to learn at one point. Does that make them less meaningful? Absolutely not. If some people scripted MD, then they might have been caught afk scripting. If afk scripting was allowed back during that time period, then those players were still playing under the rules.
This argument is similar to saying (example) - Hi, I would like you to change skinning back so I can learn from it. Oh, but all those higher circle people learned skinning when it was easy, NOOO!!11 etc.
-Ruffles
P! P is what people do when they see us! HAHAHAHAHA!
Sorry Meanne, but I'd have to side with everyone else on this one. Can't look down on people for training a skill the best way it could be, only because its different now. If you did that...then you must look down upon anyone who trained foraging under the old system versus the new system. Because they obviously cheated.
Hawken Armstead, teh King of Commoners
Hawken Armstead, teh King of Commoners
MD isn't going to be the be-all-end-all of enchanting, anyway.
Look at how much MD ranks influence moon mage enchanting.
Look at how much MD ranks influence moon mage enchanting.
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<<MD isn't going to be the be-all-end-all of enchanting, anyway.>>
PB
Let's look into data that we have received from the GMs.
________________________________________________________________________________________
<<Still, you can rest assured that Magic Devices will have a major role, and likely scholarship (for studying old books, that sort of thing). We don't know yet how weapon skills will play a role, or how important casting spells will be. MD is really the only thing I can confirm for certain.>>
Post 360 by Rigby in this folder
<<I'm not 100% sure, honestly. I have yet to propose sentient weapons. So none of the other GMs knows exactly what I'm planning on, in that capacity yet. The Weapon Enchanting Proposal is in, and Sentient Weapons comes after Weapon Enchanting. That's more or less the progression, enchanting gets juicier as you get higher. The Weapon Enchanting has very basic stuff that lower level WMs can do, and then there's advanced stuff for higher level WMs. And then, at a certain point, you can work your way towards having a Sentient Weapon. So right now, all I can tell you is that it relates in that instruments can be sentient.>>
Post 377 by Valdrik in this folder
<<As Rigby said, you can count on Scholarship and MD playing heavy roles in the system itself. As to other skills, we'll see when we get to that crossroads.>>
Post 456 by Valdrik in this folder
<<Though I'm not the foremost authority on the subject, I don't think it would particularly. TM is something completely different than enchanting, and the two don't relate very well.>>
Post 505 by Chakram in this folder
<<Well right now it's still in the proposal stages. It's been modified a bit and undergoing a bit of fine tuning to get it to where we like it.>>
Post 614 by Chakram in this folder
________________________________________________________________________________________
Rigby mentioned that MD and Scholarship will be two main factors into the enchanting system. Valdrik mentioned that Rigby's earlier statement of "MD and Scholarship playing heavy roles in the system" is still the case. That is all that players know for now, unless an event occured IG that mentioned things that aren't posted in this folder.
Chakram also mentioned that TM will have no factor into the enchanting system. Then he mentioned the status of how enchanting is looking at the moment from his perspective (the person behind the scene's viewpoint).
<<MD isn't going to be the be-all-end-all of enchanting, anyway.>>
So going back to your earlier statement, it's incorrect. From what we know as players, MD sounds like it will be a large factor in enchanting. It makes sense that MD will be playing a significant role into enchanting if you look back at what MD does, then compare it to what enchanting is.
Enchanting = The blade is presently made, you fill the blade with a magical source. The blade itself is not magical, but the magical contents (the enchanted spell itself) inside/very closely around the blade are surrounding it.
-Ruffles
P! P is what people do when they see us! HAHAHAHAHA!
PB
Let's look into data that we have received from the GMs.
________________________________________________________________________________________
<<Still, you can rest assured that Magic Devices will have a major role, and likely scholarship (for studying old books, that sort of thing). We don't know yet how weapon skills will play a role, or how important casting spells will be. MD is really the only thing I can confirm for certain.>>
Post 360 by Rigby in this folder
<<I'm not 100% sure, honestly. I have yet to propose sentient weapons. So none of the other GMs knows exactly what I'm planning on, in that capacity yet. The Weapon Enchanting Proposal is in, and Sentient Weapons comes after Weapon Enchanting. That's more or less the progression, enchanting gets juicier as you get higher. The Weapon Enchanting has very basic stuff that lower level WMs can do, and then there's advanced stuff for higher level WMs. And then, at a certain point, you can work your way towards having a Sentient Weapon. So right now, all I can tell you is that it relates in that instruments can be sentient.>>
Post 377 by Valdrik in this folder
<<As Rigby said, you can count on Scholarship and MD playing heavy roles in the system itself. As to other skills, we'll see when we get to that crossroads.>>
Post 456 by Valdrik in this folder
<<Though I'm not the foremost authority on the subject, I don't think it would particularly. TM is something completely different than enchanting, and the two don't relate very well.>>
Post 505 by Chakram in this folder
<<Well right now it's still in the proposal stages. It's been modified a bit and undergoing a bit of fine tuning to get it to where we like it.>>
Post 614 by Chakram in this folder
________________________________________________________________________________________
Rigby mentioned that MD and Scholarship will be two main factors into the enchanting system. Valdrik mentioned that Rigby's earlier statement of "MD and Scholarship playing heavy roles in the system" is still the case. That is all that players know for now, unless an event occured IG that mentioned things that aren't posted in this folder.
Chakram also mentioned that TM will have no factor into the enchanting system. Then he mentioned the status of how enchanting is looking at the moment from his perspective (the person behind the scene's viewpoint).
<<MD isn't going to be the be-all-end-all of enchanting, anyway.>>
So going back to your earlier statement, it's incorrect. From what we know as players, MD sounds like it will be a large factor in enchanting. It makes sense that MD will be playing a significant role into enchanting if you look back at what MD does, then compare it to what enchanting is.
Enchanting = The blade is presently made, you fill the blade with a magical source. The blade itself is not magical, but the magical contents (the enchanted spell itself) inside/very closely around the blade are surrounding it.
-Ruffles
P! P is what people do when they see us! HAHAHAHAHA!
