Previous Thread
Previous
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
It amazes me how any complaint or mention of the word "fair" in a post automatically means whining or crying. I do not think the people who have those insanely high ranks by the old system should be penalized. I do not think they are bad people. I am not jealous of them etc... In -my opinion- it should simply be taken into account. That, I think, is the basis for the statements.
My counter question is what would it -hurt- to add a new skill of enchanting into the equation -along with- MD and other skills? I am not stating that it could not hurt, I'm genuinely interested in everyone's opinions because I cannot see how it would cause a problem. Those with high skills will have an advantage regardless, which is fine. If they wish to specialize in enchanting, they should be more than willing to spend time practicing the new skill along with their bonus from high ranks in MD others do not have.
At least with a new skill it opens the ability up for those who do not have enormous skill to get -significantly- involved. And for those who will who will play the convinient, "you just want it to cater to your subpar character" card, I have stated before and will stated again (for the slow ones who didn't get it the first time) Seihjin will most likely -not- be anywhere near an elite enchanter.
This skill interests me more as the player than Seihjin though I'll play with it and see what happens. I would simply like to see an opportunity for characters to make a decision whether to specialize in enchanting or not. I know enchanting does not equal careers system, but I think it has the potential to be an ability wm can specialize in by sacrificing training in other areas to focus on enchanting.
B-Hon (since there are so many Brandons ;)
"Son, when you get older, many people will read way more into your posts than what is really there."
So, her original problem with that is that she wont even be near the top end because of the way MD was before hand. All I have is to say Boo-hoo for you and anyone else its not like it was ever meant to be a huge money maker its just supposed to be a WM system for us to use if we see fit. Doesnt matter if Joe-Blow is better than you or anyone else.
>>So, her original problem with that is that she wont even be near the top end because of the way MD was before hand. All I have is to say Boo-hoo for you and anyone else its not like it was ever meant to be a huge money maker its just supposed to be a WM system for us to use if we see fit. Doesnt matter if Joe-Blow is better than you or anyone else.
How come you keep reading things into posts that are NOT there?
Her original post was an attempt to remind the PTB that MD should not be the be-all or end-all of WM Enchanting, especially since there are still many characters around whose MD ranks are extremely high from the early days when MD was an all-too-easy skill to gain. It was mainly an attempt to remind the GMs that the whole point of WM Enchanting is to have something available even for those without the uber-skills held by those people who have been playing non-stop since the GEnie Beta days...
After all, my main character, only 15th circle, and only started last year, has enough MD (60+) that, under the old reqs, he would never have been required to train it again, other than for the overall ranks. Yet that amount of MD is not enough to actually DO anything with it, not use cambrinth while worn, shape an FR cloud, or even bond his sigilated ring easily (if at all).
~Kyn
Indigoe's Weapon Compendium: http://members.cox.net/trader-indigoe/weapon.html
Gidske's Armor Guide: http://www.heromachine.com/drealms/
Mac OS X FE: http://home.attbi.com/~fury42/
Smegul's Calculators: http://www.terkowitz.com/
How come you keep reading things into posts that are NOT there?
Her original post was an attempt to remind the PTB that MD should not be the be-all or end-all of WM Enchanting, especially since there are still many characters around whose MD ranks are extremely high from the early days when MD was an all-too-easy skill to gain. It was mainly an attempt to remind the GMs that the whole point of WM Enchanting is to have something available even for those without the uber-skills held by those people who have been playing non-stop since the GEnie Beta days...
After all, my main character, only 15th circle, and only started last year, has enough MD (60+) that, under the old reqs, he would never have been required to train it again, other than for the overall ranks. Yet that amount of MD is not enough to actually DO anything with it, not use cambrinth while worn, shape an FR cloud, or even bond his sigilated ring easily (if at all).
~Kyn
Indigoe's Weapon Compendium: http://members.cox.net/trader-indigoe/weapon.html
Gidske's Armor Guide: http://www.heromachine.com/drealms/
Mac OS X FE: http://home.attbi.com/~fury42/
Smegul's Calculators: http://www.terkowitz.com/
Obviously, we can't base this system on skill ranks, because someone might accidentally train those skills and throw everything off.
Therefore, I propose we base this system on the characters haircut. The cooler the haircut, the better the enchanted weapon.
-Frogspawn
Simutronics: When it comes to customer service, they stop at nothing.
Therefore, I propose we base this system on the characters haircut. The cooler the haircut, the better the enchanted weapon.
-Frogspawn
Simutronics: When it comes to customer service, they stop at nothing.
<<Obviously, we can't base this system on skill ranks, because someone might accidentally train those skills and throw everything off.
>>
Cute and entertaining as usual, but I don't recall anyone suggesting such a thing.
"What is a warrior's worth, when there is no one left to fight?" - Lord Seihjin Verackai
>>
Cute and entertaining as usual, but I don't recall anyone suggesting such a thing.
"What is a warrior's worth, when there is no one left to fight?" - Lord Seihjin Verackai
>>Her original post was an attempt to remind the PTB that MD should not be the be-all or end-all of WM Enchanting, especially since there are still many characters around whose MD ranks are extremely high from the early days when MD was an all-too-easy skill to gain.
Good for them.
>It was mainly an attempt to remind the GMs that the whole point of WM Enchanting is to have something available even for those without the uber-skills held by those people who have been playing non-stop since the GEnie Beta days...
So because some ppl have high skill there gonna base it off them so that you wont be able to learn?? AH HA I see now it all makes sense...wait no it doesnt. How could the skills anyone else have possibly effect WM enchantin on a person to person basis. They just said the higher you go the better it can get so youll just need more skill for it. The only thing they will have is an easier time using the higher stuff it in no way effects its availability of enchanting to the common WM because Joe 6-Pack has 800 ranks in MD. Its not like hes gonna steal all the enchanting power in the realm so everyone cant use it. I still see no point in this post except her contempt for ppl with more ranks in a skill that she didnt/wasnt around for to take advantage of when it was workin as inteded for so long that no one ever noticed.
Good for them.
>It was mainly an attempt to remind the GMs that the whole point of WM Enchanting is to have something available even for those without the uber-skills held by those people who have been playing non-stop since the GEnie Beta days...
So because some ppl have high skill there gonna base it off them so that you wont be able to learn?? AH HA I see now it all makes sense...wait no it doesnt. How could the skills anyone else have possibly effect WM enchantin on a person to person basis. They just said the higher you go the better it can get so youll just need more skill for it. The only thing they will have is an easier time using the higher stuff it in no way effects its availability of enchanting to the common WM because Joe 6-Pack has 800 ranks in MD. Its not like hes gonna steal all the enchanting power in the realm so everyone cant use it. I still see no point in this post except her contempt for ppl with more ranks in a skill that she didnt/wasnt around for to take advantage of when it was workin as inteded for so long that no one ever noticed.
>>It makes sense that MD will be playing a significant role into enchanting if you look back at what MD does, then compare it to what enchanting is.
But it won't be the be-all-end-all, which is what I said. :P
They'll be more than just devices, so people who trained devices heavy when it was extra-easy to train (and its still easy to train now, but anyway...) won't definitely dominate the market.
But it won't be the be-all-end-all, which is what I said. :P
They'll be more than just devices, so people who trained devices heavy when it was extra-easy to train (and its still easy to train now, but anyway...) won't definitely dominate the market.
| Need a babelfish for DragonRealms? |
| http://www.bakshiloa.com/libraryindex.html |
I think the point is that a system that bases itself on characters with very high ranks in a skill, especially characters with ranks higher than they would have if they trained with the current system, then people that have been training that skill under the new system or whatever may not be able to do much of anything. She was just trying to make sure that the GMs didn't just look at the numbers of the highest characters' MD and instead take into account everybody's MD ranks to see the whole enchanting picture in regards to MD.
-Durnil
-Durnil
<<She was just trying to make sure that the GMs didn't just look at the numbers of the highest characters' MD and instead take into account everybody's MD ranks to see the whole enchanting picture in regards to MD.
I am sure the GMs will make enchanting available to almost all warrior mages, not just those with 800+ skills.
Trebber
I am sure the GMs will make enchanting available to almost all warrior mages, not just those with 800+ skills.
Trebber
Thank you those who understood what I was trying to say.
[And just as an added note, you DO realize that it's going to take probably 5-10 RL years for anyone to catch up to those who trained under the 'old' system? Literally. 5 to 10 REAL LIFE years. The gap is THAT big.]
Anyways. I slipped my reminder in, and that's all that matters :)
Thank you again for listening, those that did.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
[And just as an added note, you DO realize that it's going to take probably 5-10 RL years for anyone to catch up to those who trained under the 'old' system? Literally. 5 to 10 REAL LIFE years. The gap is THAT big.]
Anyways. I slipped my reminder in, and that's all that matters :)
Thank you again for listening, those that did.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
>>And just as an added note, you DO realize that it's going to take probably 5-10 RL years for anyone to catch up to those who trained under the 'old' system? Literally. 5 to 10 REAL LIFE years. The gap is THAT big.
Well, seeing how this would mean they started training 5-10 years later, I don't see how this is a huge travesty.
-Frogspawn
Simutronics: When it comes to customer service, they stop at nothing.
Well, seeing how this would mean they started training 5-10 years later, I don't see how this is a huge travesty.
-Frogspawn
Simutronics: When it comes to customer service, they stop at nothing.
<<Well, seeing how this would mean they started training 5-10 years later, I don't see how this is a huge travesty.>>
You know I didn't mean it like that.
If someone were to drop everything right now and start training ONLY MD, they would catch it up in maybe 5 years. I'm not talking someone who just rolled up a Warrior Mage. I'm talking about our level 90+ Warrior Mages who didn't 'use' MD under the old broken runes methodology.
"UR JEALOZ OMG U DIDNT TRAIN BACK THEN WITH RUNEZ SO UR JEALOUS OF THOSE THAT DID!"
Back then it was frowned upon heavily if you had strong MD and neglected your other magical skills, those that did were considered mildly pariahcal. Anyone with any care at all for their character's development simply... didn't do it.
But once again, that's not the issue here. The issue is that there is a large, irrepairable gap in the MD skill. Once again, I've made that point alreadyl, I hope, and little else needs to be said.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
You know I didn't mean it like that.
If someone were to drop everything right now and start training ONLY MD, they would catch it up in maybe 5 years. I'm not talking someone who just rolled up a Warrior Mage. I'm talking about our level 90+ Warrior Mages who didn't 'use' MD under the old broken runes methodology.
"UR JEALOZ OMG U DIDNT TRAIN BACK THEN WITH RUNEZ SO UR JEALOUS OF THOSE THAT DID!"
Back then it was frowned upon heavily if you had strong MD and neglected your other magical skills, those that did were considered mildly pariahcal. Anyone with any care at all for their character's development simply... didn't do it.
But once again, that's not the issue here. The issue is that there is a large, irrepairable gap in the MD skill. Once again, I've made that point alreadyl, I hope, and little else needs to be said.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
<<Well, seeing how this would mean they started training 5-10 years later, I don't see how this is a huge travesty.>>
You know I didn't mean it like that.
If someone were to drop everything right now and start training ONLY MD, they would catch it up in maybe 5 years. I'm not talking someone who just rolled up a Warrior Mage. I'm talking about our level 90+ Warrior Mages who didn't 'use' MD under the old broken runes methodology.
"UR JEALOZ OMG U DIDNT TRAIN BACK THEN WITH RUNEZ SO UR JEALOUS OF THOSE THAT DID!"
Back then it was frowned upon heavily if you had strong MD and neglected your other magical skills, those that did were considered mildly pariahcal. Anyone with any care at all for their character's development simply... didn't do it.
But once again, that's not the issue here. The issue is that there is a large, irrepairable gap in the MD skill. Once again, I've made that point already, I hope, and little else needs to be said.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
You know I didn't mean it like that.
If someone were to drop everything right now and start training ONLY MD, they would catch it up in maybe 5 years. I'm not talking someone who just rolled up a Warrior Mage. I'm talking about our level 90+ Warrior Mages who didn't 'use' MD under the old broken runes methodology.
"UR JEALOZ OMG U DIDNT TRAIN BACK THEN WITH RUNEZ SO UR JEALOUS OF THOSE THAT DID!"
Back then it was frowned upon heavily if you had strong MD and neglected your other magical skills, those that did were considered mildly pariahcal. Anyone with any care at all for their character's development simply... didn't do it.
But once again, that's not the issue here. The issue is that there is a large, irrepairable gap in the MD skill. Once again, I've made that point already, I hope, and little else needs to be said.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
<<I think the point is that a system that bases itself on characters with very high ranks in a skill, especially characters with ranks higher than they would have if they trained with the current system, then people that have been training that skill under the new system or whatever may not be able to do much of anything. She was just trying to make sure that the GMs didn't just look at the numbers of the highest characters' MD and instead take into account everybody's MD ranks to see the whole enchanting picture in regards to MD.
-Durnil>>
She shouldn't be concerned of that, because..
<<I'm not 100% sure, honestly. I have yet to propose sentient weapons. So none of the other GMs knows exactly what I'm planning on, in that capacity yet. The Weapon Enchanting Proposal is in, and Sentient Weapons comes after Weapon Enchanting. That's more or less the progression, enchanting gets juicier as you get higher. The Weapon Enchanting has very basic stuff that lower level WMs can do, and then there's advanced stuff for higher level WMs. And then, at a certain point, you can work your way towards having a Sentient Weapon. So right now, all I can tell you is that it relates in that instruments can be sentient.>>
Post 377 by Valdrik in this folder
There will be various levels of Weapon Enchanting as stated by GM Valdrik from the Warrior Mage proposal of the enchanting system. It sounds like Valdrik is already looking at the numbers to make this as fun and efficient for a variety of Warrior Mages (low circle/high circle/low MD/high MD).
<<They'll be more than just devices, so people who trained devices heavy when it was extra-easy to train (and its still easy to train now, but anyway...) won't definitely dominate the market.>>
Right. There will be more to become a better enchanter then just MD. For instance, you may need Scholarship, along with a few stats. These are facts mentioned by Valdrik and Rigby in particular, as they keep you guys updated.
<<But it won't be the be-all-end-all, which is what I said. :P>>
Your right PB, I misread there.
To say what Meanne was mentioning of how it was somehow "unfair" that Warrior Mages in the past gained MD ranks easily in the past is absurd. MD ranks is one of the absolute first things you think an enchanter would need (based on the magic skills available). I can easily say it's unfair that you've been playing more time then I have, so I deserve your ranks. Whatever possible system was available in the past, if they did not get a warning by the GMs, then you can't say anything. If they did get a warning for it, then that's what they deserve.
What I would recommend is that everyone thinks of possible ways to improve Weapon Enchanting and stop squabbling over what's fair/not fair from the past. The past is over. If the problem continues today, post that in the complaints folder. But, think of what you have available to you now and the future as far as Enchanting goes.
-Ruffles
P! P is what people do when they see us! HAHAHAHAHA!
-Durnil>>
She shouldn't be concerned of that, because..
<<I'm not 100% sure, honestly. I have yet to propose sentient weapons. So none of the other GMs knows exactly what I'm planning on, in that capacity yet. The Weapon Enchanting Proposal is in, and Sentient Weapons comes after Weapon Enchanting. That's more or less the progression, enchanting gets juicier as you get higher. The Weapon Enchanting has very basic stuff that lower level WMs can do, and then there's advanced stuff for higher level WMs. And then, at a certain point, you can work your way towards having a Sentient Weapon. So right now, all I can tell you is that it relates in that instruments can be sentient.>>
Post 377 by Valdrik in this folder
There will be various levels of Weapon Enchanting as stated by GM Valdrik from the Warrior Mage proposal of the enchanting system. It sounds like Valdrik is already looking at the numbers to make this as fun and efficient for a variety of Warrior Mages (low circle/high circle/low MD/high MD).
<<They'll be more than just devices, so people who trained devices heavy when it was extra-easy to train (and its still easy to train now, but anyway...) won't definitely dominate the market.>>
Right. There will be more to become a better enchanter then just MD. For instance, you may need Scholarship, along with a few stats. These are facts mentioned by Valdrik and Rigby in particular, as they keep you guys updated.
<<But it won't be the be-all-end-all, which is what I said. :P>>
Your right PB, I misread there.
To say what Meanne was mentioning of how it was somehow "unfair" that Warrior Mages in the past gained MD ranks easily in the past is absurd. MD ranks is one of the absolute first things you think an enchanter would need (based on the magic skills available). I can easily say it's unfair that you've been playing more time then I have, so I deserve your ranks. Whatever possible system was available in the past, if they did not get a warning by the GMs, then you can't say anything. If they did get a warning for it, then that's what they deserve.
What I would recommend is that everyone thinks of possible ways to improve Weapon Enchanting and stop squabbling over what's fair/not fair from the past. The past is over. If the problem continues today, post that in the complaints folder. But, think of what you have available to you now and the future as far as Enchanting goes.
-Ruffles
P! P is what people do when they see us! HAHAHAHAHA!
You don't understand, at all. Maybe it's because you weren't around then, I don't know.
They were mindlocking the skill in less than a minute.
Scripting it, both afk and otherwise around the clock.
Having, in most cases, friends or spouses log in to script the skill to ensure it could be done around the clock.
Why? To quickly level under our old "Overall Magic" Requirement Schemata.
You do not understand the SHEER DAMAGE it did to this guild. There is a huge, irrepairable gap and I cannot stress that enough.
In any system there is the potential for abuse, I'm not saying there isn't in others, this was just a markedly detrimental example. I'm honestly going to drop this topic now because I know I am not coming across very well. Some will understand, some won't.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
They were mindlocking the skill in less than a minute.
Scripting it, both afk and otherwise around the clock.
Having, in most cases, friends or spouses log in to script the skill to ensure it could be done around the clock.
Why? To quickly level under our old "Overall Magic" Requirement Schemata.
You do not understand the SHEER DAMAGE it did to this guild. There is a huge, irrepairable gap and I cannot stress that enough.
In any system there is the potential for abuse, I'm not saying there isn't in others, this was just a markedly detrimental example. I'm honestly going to drop this topic now because I know I am not coming across very well. Some will understand, some won't.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
It's always possible they may decide to make enchantments for WMs work like MMs.
I don't think they consider MD ranks at all.
I don't think they consider MD ranks at all.
| Need a babelfish for DragonRealms? |
| http://www.bakshiloa.com/libraryindex.html |
Its no more easy to gain then than it is now. I thought you meant the exp gain was outta whack. MD is so easy now you just charge like 5 things and cast and it brings you to instant mindlocked. I gain like 2-3 ranks a day with over 360+ MD on TF its not a hard skill to train even in combat I can keep it mindlocked charging 11 and casting before I do everything. There was no dmg done than that cant be done now. Its just not as practical to train MD to circle since you need TM still.
>>They were mindlocking the skill in less than a minute.
Scripting it, both afk and otherwise around the clock.
Having, in most cases, friends or spouses log in to script the skill to ensure it could be done around the clock.
Nothing has been changed to prevent people from doing this. Except that it takees more than a minute to lock it now (which doesn't matter much, seeing as they're scripting it around the clock anyways).
-Frogspawn
Simutronics: When it comes to customer service, they stop at nothing.
Scripting it, both afk and otherwise around the clock.
Having, in most cases, friends or spouses log in to script the skill to ensure it could be done around the clock.
Nothing has been changed to prevent people from doing this. Except that it takees more than a minute to lock it now (which doesn't matter much, seeing as they're scripting it around the clock anyways).
-Frogspawn
Simutronics: When it comes to customer service, they stop at nothing.
The real change is that we can't level solely off of MD anymore. People aren't spending all their time learning MD like they used to, which I guess is a good thing.
Either way, taking 50 seconds to lock MD is still a large difference from the what -- five to ten minutes it might take now? It might not seem like a huge difference, but it is, especially if you know where to look. You simply CANT train MD as easily or as quickly as you used to be able to, not by a long shot. It's not that difficult still, until you get into the higher ranks (800ish, presumeably), but its a LOT more difficult than it used to be. You have to put things into perspective.
The gap created then is clearer than ever now. Just look at our Guild's Roster.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
Either way, taking 50 seconds to lock MD is still a large difference from the what -- five to ten minutes it might take now? It might not seem like a huge difference, but it is, especially if you know where to look. You simply CANT train MD as easily or as quickly as you used to be able to, not by a long shot. It's not that difficult still, until you get into the higher ranks (800ish, presumeably), but its a LOT more difficult than it used to be. You have to put things into perspective.
The gap created then is clearer than ever now. Just look at our Guild's Roster.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
<<Scripting it, both afk and otherwise around the clock.
<<Having, in most cases, friends or spouses log in to script the skill to ensure it could be done around the clock.
Assertion.
<<You do not understand the SHEER DAMAGE it did to this guild. There is a huge, irrepairable gap and I cannot stress that enough.
Opinion.
<<Some will understand, some won't.
Some will agree, some won't.
<<Nothing has been changed to prevent people from doing this. Except that it takees more than a minute to lock it now (which doesn't matter much, seeing as they're scripting it around the clock anyways).
Exactly.
<<Having, in most cases, friends or spouses log in to script the skill to ensure it could be done around the clock.
Assertion.
<<You do not understand the SHEER DAMAGE it did to this guild. There is a huge, irrepairable gap and I cannot stress that enough.
Opinion.
<<Some will understand, some won't.
Some will agree, some won't.
<<Nothing has been changed to prevent people from doing this. Except that it takees more than a minute to lock it now (which doesn't matter much, seeing as they're scripting it around the clock anyways).
Exactly.
>You do not understand the SHEER DAMAGE it did to this guild. There is a huge, irrepairable gap and I cannot stress that enough.
You can stress this enough, and you have. If your 37th post didn't do the trick, I don't imagine your 38th has the real kicker that's going to make everyone see the light.
Regardless of whether or not GMs take gigantic MD ranks into account (She hasn't enough brought up the changes to post 300 skill learning that were put into place), the system will turn out fine. They aren't dumb.
Enchanting won't be solely based on MD any more than any aspect of magic is based on a single factor.
Now, let's continue to post ideas that have been suggested 400 times. I'll start it off:
I've got this great idea, why don't we couple an aspect of a weapon with an element, like fire raises slice! I know it's complicated, but see if you can keep up...
Nester
You can stress this enough, and you have. If your 37th post didn't do the trick, I don't imagine your 38th has the real kicker that's going to make everyone see the light.
Regardless of whether or not GMs take gigantic MD ranks into account (She hasn't enough brought up the changes to post 300 skill learning that were put into place), the system will turn out fine. They aren't dumb.
Enchanting won't be solely based on MD any more than any aspect of magic is based on a single factor.
Now, let's continue to post ideas that have been suggested 400 times. I'll start it off:
I've got this great idea, why don't we couple an aspect of a weapon with an element, like fire raises slice! I know it's complicated, but see if you can keep up...
Nester
Hmm, I wonder how many of the people biting Meanne's head off have an inordinate amount of MD? Afraid Meanne will get changes made to WM enchanting so you won't be top dog with those massively cheap MD ranks, perhaps? She has a valid point and hopefully the GM's will take it into consideration. Don't like it? Feel free to leave.
Celain
Celain
>>Hmm, I wonder how many of the people biting Meanne's head off have an inordinate amount of MD? Afraid Meanne will get changes made to WM enchanting so you won't be top dog with those massively cheap MD ranks, perhaps? She has a valid point and hopefully the GM's will take it into consideration. Don't like it? Feel free to leave.
I dont think I have that much. Less than 400 but it trains fairly easy so I dont see why she has any room to complain if she doesnt have it can start now. I know a few ppl with 600+ but the fact of the matter is shes complaining to get a system looked at for ppl with less when the system looks like its going to be a WM by WM basis anyway and its already been stated there will be stuff from newb to grandmaster lvl. I dont see why shes complaining except to make it so that it gets moved to some skill that nobody has so she can have equal footing to be a money maker against anyone else. If her posts looked like anything other than that Id agree with her but frankly it does not.
I dont think I have that much. Less than 400 but it trains fairly easy so I dont see why she has any room to complain if she doesnt have it can start now. I know a few ppl with 600+ but the fact of the matter is shes complaining to get a system looked at for ppl with less when the system looks like its going to be a WM by WM basis anyway and its already been stated there will be stuff from newb to grandmaster lvl. I dont see why shes complaining except to make it so that it gets moved to some skill that nobody has so she can have equal footing to be a money maker against anyone else. If her posts looked like anything other than that Id agree with her but frankly it does not.
<<Hmm, I wonder how many of the people biting Meanne's head off have an inordinate amount of MD?
It's my lowest magic.
<<Afraid Meanne will get changes made to WM enchanting so you won't be top dog with those massively cheap MD ranks, perhaps?
Of course not. The GMs aren't idiots.
<<She has a valid point and hopefully the GM's will take it into consideration.
They aren't going to make an enchanting system only the top 1% of the guild can use. Nor are they going to make MD ranks ineffective on account of MD scripting conspiracy theories.
<<Don't like it?
Don't like what?
<<Feel free to leave.
Where did that come from?
It's my lowest magic.
<<Afraid Meanne will get changes made to WM enchanting so you won't be top dog with those massively cheap MD ranks, perhaps?
Of course not. The GMs aren't idiots.
<<She has a valid point and hopefully the GM's will take it into consideration.
They aren't going to make an enchanting system only the top 1% of the guild can use. Nor are they going to make MD ranks ineffective on account of MD scripting conspiracy theories.
<<Don't like it?
Don't like what?
<<Feel free to leave.
Where did that come from?
<<I dont think I have that much. Less than 400 but it trains fairly easy so I dont see why she has any room to complain if she doesnt have it can start now. I know a few ppl with 600+ but the fact of the matter is shes complaining to get a system looked at for ppl with less when the system looks like its going to be a WM by WM basis anyway and its already been stated there will be stuff from newb to grandmaster lvl. I dont see why shes complaining except to make it so that it gets moved to some skill that nobody has so she can have equal footing to be a money maker against anyone else. If her posts looked like anything other than that Id agree with her but frankly it does not. >>
I do not expect or want to make money off of Enchanting. Though, of course it would be nice if we had anything WORTH other guilds paying money for. Nor do I expect to be the best at Enchanting, my MD happens to be my second lowest magical skill. I have already made it quite clear what my concerns are, and if you missed them -- personal finance wasn't on the list.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
I do not expect or want to make money off of Enchanting. Though, of course it would be nice if we had anything WORTH other guilds paying money for. Nor do I expect to be the best at Enchanting, my MD happens to be my second lowest magical skill. I have already made it quite clear what my concerns are, and if you missed them -- personal finance wasn't on the list.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
I dunno..personally, as one of those Genie Beta people that Kyn was referring to, I understand where Meanne is coming from. We had little respect for those that circled through massive MD skill, rather than by learning combat magics.
On the other hand, most of those were the same people who took advantage of the permissability of scripting at the time, and generally achieved substahtially greater levels in most skills using the same methods. How many of those characters still exist now I couldn't say, but I'd venture that the majority of them are gone.
But bottom line is, assuming a new skill was created to take the place of MD in enchanting, you'd quickly find that same group of people doing there best to find a way to power train it, and rapidly outpace the rest of the guild...
Regardless, as long as enchanting provides a satisfactory level of usefulness for the "average" trained mage...ie one with 4 to 6 ranks of MD per circle, it will be worth having. All I know is I couldn't write a script even to move from point a to point b if my life depended on it, so I'm glad I'm not in TF.
Anfindel
Bullwinkle: Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit outta my hat...
Rocky the Rabid Squirrel: Again? Die Moose Die !!
On the other hand, most of those were the same people who took advantage of the permissability of scripting at the time, and generally achieved substahtially greater levels in most skills using the same methods. How many of those characters still exist now I couldn't say, but I'd venture that the majority of them are gone.
But bottom line is, assuming a new skill was created to take the place of MD in enchanting, you'd quickly find that same group of people doing there best to find a way to power train it, and rapidly outpace the rest of the guild...
Regardless, as long as enchanting provides a satisfactory level of usefulness for the "average" trained mage...ie one with 4 to 6 ranks of MD per circle, it will be worth having. All I know is I couldn't write a script even to move from point a to point b if my life depended on it, so I'm glad I'm not in TF.
Anfindel
Bullwinkle: Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit outta my hat...
Rocky the Rabid Squirrel: Again? Die Moose Die !!
>>>>Hmm, I wonder how many of the people biting Meanne's head off have an inordinate amount of MD? Afraid Meanne will get changes made to WM enchanting so you won't be top dog with those massively cheap MD ranks, perhaps? She has a valid point and hopefully the GM's will take it into consideration. Don't like it? Feel free to leave.
I have 2500 MD, all gained while AFK scripting before the bug was fixed.
All your enchanting are belong to me.
-Frogspawn
Simutronics: When it comes to customer service, they stop at nothing.
I have 2500 MD, all gained while AFK scripting before the bug was fixed.
All your enchanting are belong to me.
-Frogspawn
Simutronics: When it comes to customer service, they stop at nothing.
A rank is a rank... no matter how or when it was gained it's still a rank. Some things have gotten easier in DR, some things have gotten harder.
Any action in DR should use the appropriate skill to check against. Just because some people got X ranks when it was easier to train does not justify it in not being used.
Wanting something a certain way so that other people aren't better at something then you on a mud is just useless wishing, for the most part there will always be someone better then you at something.
Fear that the use of MD will cause you to make less money from enchanting is also unfounded. As only the top X will make the vast majority of the money from any creation system. You are most likely not going to be in the top X. I had a post in the enchantment folder of how to make sure WM enchanting was profitable to ye random WM.
I could rail against people who got easy combats in crocs. Or people who shot fire sprites in the eye for mega-TM. Or those that permastunned adan'f with TC.
Just suck up and deal people.
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
Make Me Feel Better... Visit http://www.zairius.com/fractals
Any action in DR should use the appropriate skill to check against. Just because some people got X ranks when it was easier to train does not justify it in not being used.
Wanting something a certain way so that other people aren't better at something then you on a mud is just useless wishing, for the most part there will always be someone better then you at something.
Fear that the use of MD will cause you to make less money from enchanting is also unfounded. As only the top X will make the vast majority of the money from any creation system. You are most likely not going to be in the top X. I had a post in the enchantment folder of how to make sure WM enchanting was profitable to ye random WM.
I could rail against people who got easy combats in crocs. Or people who shot fire sprites in the eye for mega-TM. Or those that permastunned adan'f with TC.
Just suck up and deal people.
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
Make Me Feel Better... Visit http://www.zairius.com/fractals
<<Any action in DR should use the appropriate skill to check against. Just because some people got X ranks when it was easier to train does not justify it in not being used.>>
It will take years and years for the high level mages today who did NOT use the skill like some did "back in the day" to catch up. It's not just a matter of saying "Wah they have X ranks and I have Y ranks, build it around me instead!" It's the matter of "Crap, I have Y ranks and even if I dropped *everything else* it would take me like five RL years to even have a glimmer of a chance of catching up! This gap has the potential of being very messy for Warrior Mages as a whole." Yes, even with MD as "easy" as it is to train today. I've said before that I'm not really a fan of the MD skill and do not expect to make the best MD's. The gap is so large that those at the 'high end' double the skill of those who trained regularly, without gunghoing on MD back when it was broken, yes, broken.
Nor do I expect to make a profit off of the system, though I certainly hope that some Warrior Mages can. My character, as I have already mentioned, is extremely well off financially. Extremely. I make money just fine on my own, with or without Enchanting. It is really the least of my concerns when addressing this topic and I truly wish people would stop insinuating that it is my primary motivation.
I appologize for having to repost yet again on this subject but I do hate when my intentions are misjudged. I hope that clarified things somewhat for you.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
It will take years and years for the high level mages today who did NOT use the skill like some did "back in the day" to catch up. It's not just a matter of saying "Wah they have X ranks and I have Y ranks, build it around me instead!" It's the matter of "Crap, I have Y ranks and even if I dropped *everything else* it would take me like five RL years to even have a glimmer of a chance of catching up! This gap has the potential of being very messy for Warrior Mages as a whole." Yes, even with MD as "easy" as it is to train today. I've said before that I'm not really a fan of the MD skill and do not expect to make the best MD's. The gap is so large that those at the 'high end' double the skill of those who trained regularly, without gunghoing on MD back when it was broken, yes, broken.
Nor do I expect to make a profit off of the system, though I certainly hope that some Warrior Mages can. My character, as I have already mentioned, is extremely well off financially. Extremely. I make money just fine on my own, with or without Enchanting. It is really the least of my concerns when addressing this topic and I truly wish people would stop insinuating that it is my primary motivation.
I appologize for having to repost yet again on this subject but I do hate when my intentions are misjudged. I hope that clarified things somewhat for you.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
>it would take me like five RL years to even have a glimmer of a chance of catching up! This gap has the potential of being very messy for Warrior Mages as a whole."
And that is why we should lobby that any MD ranks required be based off how difficult they wish the task to be and not on trying to make sure only the top X can do a certain enchantment. Granted this is totally holistic anyways.
I do agree that one should not have to have 600 or 700 or 800+ MD ranks to make worthwhile enchantments.
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
Make Me Feel Better... Visit http://www.zairius.com/fractals
And that is why we should lobby that any MD ranks required be based off how difficult they wish the task to be and not on trying to make sure only the top X can do a certain enchantment. Granted this is totally holistic anyways.
I do agree that one should not have to have 600 or 700 or 800+ MD ranks to make worthwhile enchantments.
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
Make Me Feel Better... Visit http://www.zairius.com/fractals
<<It will take years and years for the high level mages today who did NOT use the skill like some did "back in the day" to catch up. >>
<<It's the matter of "Crap, I have Y ranks and even if I dropped *everything else* it would take me like five RL years to even have a glimmer of a chance of catching up! This gap has the potential of being very messy for Warrior Mages as a whole." Yes, even with MD as "easy" as it is to train today. I've said before that I'm not really a fan of the MD skill and do not expect to make the best MD's. The gap is so large that those at the 'high end' double the skill of those who trained regularly, without gunghoing on MD back when it was broken, yes, broken.>>
Meanne, didn't you point out that you were going to stop posting about this? We understand your point. People have responded and you have responded with the same argument.
<<I appologize for having to repost yet again on this subject but I do hate when my intentions are misjudged. I hope that clarified things somewhat for you.>>
No need to apologize, just try a different approach to introducing ideas for Warrior Mage Enchanting.
-Ruffles
"You do not understand the SHEER DAMAGE it did to this guild. There is a huge, irrepairable gap and I cannot stress that enough." - Meanne
<<It's the matter of "Crap, I have Y ranks and even if I dropped *everything else* it would take me like five RL years to even have a glimmer of a chance of catching up! This gap has the potential of being very messy for Warrior Mages as a whole." Yes, even with MD as "easy" as it is to train today. I've said before that I'm not really a fan of the MD skill and do not expect to make the best MD's. The gap is so large that those at the 'high end' double the skill of those who trained regularly, without gunghoing on MD back when it was broken, yes, broken.>>
Meanne, didn't you point out that you were going to stop posting about this? We understand your point. People have responded and you have responded with the same argument.
<<I appologize for having to repost yet again on this subject but I do hate when my intentions are misjudged. I hope that clarified things somewhat for you.>>
No need to apologize, just try a different approach to introducing ideas for Warrior Mage Enchanting.
-Ruffles
"You do not understand the SHEER DAMAGE it did to this guild. There is a huge, irrepairable gap and I cannot stress that enough." - Meanne
>>It will take years and years for the high level mages today who did NOT use the skill like some did "back in the day" to catch up.
All this shows is a blatent lack of understanding of how the experience system works.
The increase in learning from a method that locks a skill in two minutes and a method that locks a skill in 10 minutes is 8 minutes at most (technically less, but I don't care enough to point that out).
If these people are training the skill as you assert they are, this difference is trivial. Hell, assume they train it 16 hours a day. That's an 8 minute bonus to learning, out of 960 minutes of learning. They've just achieved a harrowing .8% increase in learning. Gods, may ye striketh them down for their insolence.
-Frogspawn
Simutronics: When it comes to customer service, they stop at nothing.
All this shows is a blatent lack of understanding of how the experience system works.
The increase in learning from a method that locks a skill in two minutes and a method that locks a skill in 10 minutes is 8 minutes at most (technically less, but I don't care enough to point that out).
If these people are training the skill as you assert they are, this difference is trivial. Hell, assume they train it 16 hours a day. That's an 8 minute bonus to learning, out of 960 minutes of learning. They've just achieved a harrowing .8% increase in learning. Gods, may ye striketh them down for their insolence.
-Frogspawn
Simutronics: When it comes to customer service, they stop at nothing.
I appreciate your constructive criticisms Rufhelous, but your Account Name appears to lack the obligatory DR- or SIMU- prefix.
In other words, when did you become a GM?
I did say I was going to stop posting on the issue, but that didn't stop other people's personal attacks. I think they warranted a response, and I am well within my rights to make one.
Thank you.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
In other words, when did you become a GM?
I did say I was going to stop posting on the issue, but that didn't stop other people's personal attacks. I think they warranted a response, and I am well within my rights to make one.
Thank you.
~/\/\eanne~
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
IM me @: BlackfireMagess
I'd just like to throw my two cents in here.
While some people are expressing concerns about high MD ranks, I'd just like to say that, as MD stands now, I've no trouble at all keeping the skill mindlocked. Now how is this different than "abusing" a game mechanic that wasn't considered abuse (by the GM's, which is key) until it was fixed?
Any lamebrain with 3 friends can keep a barb's weapons mindlocked 24/7.
Any lamebrain with 3 friends can keep a WM's MD mindlocked 24/7.
Past AND Present. What's the problem here?
Back when I played my character during the early days, he had healthy MD ranks, and kept it locked nearly 100% of the time, yet it wasn't his highest skill. The other magics were mindlocked 100% of the time as well. So, just because one magic skill that was easy to learn is being used in an enchanting system, people are crying?
But I guess I'm missing the point too.
It sounds to me like some people are not understanding the difference between "heavy role" and "end-all be-all". The latter asserts that nothing can be done to surpass the said skill in effectiveness, no matter what. The former means that it will have a large part in the process.
"Heavy role" could mean that at one point in the process of enchanting, the MD skill is taken into account as a skill check. This DOES NOT exclude other skills from being checked in the SAME manner at other points in the process. I'm sure the GM's are intelligent enough to create a system where one single skill is not the end-all be-all of an entire crafting system.
But I digress. I doubt this logic will dry any tears. We now return you to your regularly scheduled posting.
While some people are expressing concerns about high MD ranks, I'd just like to say that, as MD stands now, I've no trouble at all keeping the skill mindlocked. Now how is this different than "abusing" a game mechanic that wasn't considered abuse (by the GM's, which is key) until it was fixed?
Any lamebrain with 3 friends can keep a barb's weapons mindlocked 24/7.
Any lamebrain with 3 friends can keep a WM's MD mindlocked 24/7.
Past AND Present. What's the problem here?
Back when I played my character during the early days, he had healthy MD ranks, and kept it locked nearly 100% of the time, yet it wasn't his highest skill. The other magics were mindlocked 100% of the time as well. So, just because one magic skill that was easy to learn is being used in an enchanting system, people are crying?
But I guess I'm missing the point too.
It sounds to me like some people are not understanding the difference between "heavy role" and "end-all be-all". The latter asserts that nothing can be done to surpass the said skill in effectiveness, no matter what. The former means that it will have a large part in the process.
"Heavy role" could mean that at one point in the process of enchanting, the MD skill is taken into account as a skill check. This DOES NOT exclude other skills from being checked in the SAME manner at other points in the process. I'm sure the GM's are intelligent enough to create a system where one single skill is not the end-all be-all of an entire crafting system.
But I digress. I doubt this logic will dry any tears. We now return you to your regularly scheduled posting.
The Gm's should hear players concerns on both sides of the arguement. I for one believe everyone that plays the game helps shape it in some way intentionally or unintentionally. I have to believe that the GMS listen and take our concerns into consideration or id just not play. I dont know if putting a cap on MD and then basing it off a bunch of other skills is the right thing to do or not. It might be good short term but then it would really be hard to raise a tertiary skill if it were the determining factor after a certain point to keep improving in the long term. Take barbs for example. In order for them to make a great sword, they need high skills in 4 primary skills and to an extent a fair ammount of mech lore which is a tertiary skill for them. If they capped the skills it takes to make good sword at 500 and then based further improvements on mech lore you might see slower improvement on weapons and you would loose the specialization in weapon classes(someone making a Great HE, Good ME, average LE). I think the thing that concerns most people is how are those (scripted/Broken or whatever) MD ranks going to be looked at in the equations. Is it going to be based so heavily on MD that you cant be near the best at enchanting unless you have 800+ MD or worse yet average at 400? I hope that the skills needed in calculating quality of enchanting will be based evenly between all 5 magics and scholorship with armor/weapon skill figured in on armor and weapon enchants. That would insure that someone wouldnt be the best at all enchants because they happen to be in the right place at the right time with their cambrinth or didnt get caught cheating. I cant answer for other but competition is one of the things that keeps me playing. I like to forge and have accepted the fact that I wont ever be the best at making swords. However, I keep trying with hopes of someday being the best swordmaking warmage.
"You nut-hook! Die!"
"You nut-hook! Die!"
Maybe they will base it on tiers, much like learning TM. Flaming sword enchante will be a newb enchante and teach from like 0-100 and after 100 youve capped it and it no longer gets better for you but you get to move up to the next enchante earth sword, then that teaches to something caps and so on so forth till you get the Fireball scimitar of Vanquishing that caps at 900 ranks. Thatll give you to look forward to + make it so you could sell the same stuff as anyone else within your ranks and anything under you would be makeable to the cap.
I understand where Meanne is coming from, she raises a very valid concern. One factor is not only how much time it took to learn but what you could do to learn it. I can lock MD fairly swiftly with my method, takes about 15 minutes, and I can do it when traveling through familiar territory, when I reach good mana rooms. If this bug, whatever it was, allowed people to train MD with barely any time or effort then I can see being able to quickly shoot up in ranks. First off MD will likely be a factor, at least I think so, it makes sense, right?
Though these people have done nothing inherently wrong there is not a big rift between players with massive amounts MD and what is possible to be learned now a days. It's easy to say "Shut up and quit whining and go train." At the same time the people in the upper echelons of MD are training and gaining the same amount of skill, maintaining the rift.
This is more than an issue of fairness and who should be able to do what. This could pose a significant design problem for Warrior Mage Enchanting, one that could bog up the process. The GM team working on it will have to deal with creating a skill the all or a good majority of Warrior Mages will have a use for, and they will have to create one that will last on into the future.
These major disreprencies in ranks, due to a bug (an error in the game) has the designing a skill for that could take into account people with 700+ MD who got it very early in their careers against people who have circle reqs for the skill (bare minimum). How can they design something for 100 ranks and not instantly have people with 800 ranks crafting top of the line stuff? Yet, factor in people with immense amounts of MD but not leave people with a few ranks above required with a useless skill because their ranks are high enough to produce anything useful?
Was a good point to bring up in my opinion, I hope you all can see what difficulties this issue really creates.
"Oderint dum metuant."
Though these people have done nothing inherently wrong there is not a big rift between players with massive amounts MD and what is possible to be learned now a days. It's easy to say "Shut up and quit whining and go train." At the same time the people in the upper echelons of MD are training and gaining the same amount of skill, maintaining the rift.
This is more than an issue of fairness and who should be able to do what. This could pose a significant design problem for Warrior Mage Enchanting, one that could bog up the process. The GM team working on it will have to deal with creating a skill the all or a good majority of Warrior Mages will have a use for, and they will have to create one that will last on into the future.
These major disreprencies in ranks, due to a bug (an error in the game) has the designing a skill for that could take into account people with 700+ MD who got it very early in their careers against people who have circle reqs for the skill (bare minimum). How can they design something for 100 ranks and not instantly have people with 800 ranks crafting top of the line stuff? Yet, factor in people with immense amounts of MD but not leave people with a few ranks above required with a useless skill because their ranks are high enough to produce anything useful?
Was a good point to bring up in my opinion, I hope you all can see what difficulties this issue really creates.
"Oderint dum metuant."
