Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/22/2015 10:31 PM CDT
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the initial summon doesn't require anything other than to be a warmage, I had it when i logged in. the metaspells, even if not signature, require the ability and are therefor useless to anyone else.

I've not heard of spells playing off guild perks before, so.. who knows what these are. I always saw signature as "you could, but you can't"

"Game balance is sobbing over in the corner as it considers the ramifications of AoE Blufmor Garaen. Your spell slots send their condolences." - GM Raesh
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/22/2015 10:38 PM CDT
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<<I've not heard of spells playing off guild perks before, so.. who knows what these are.

Spiteful Rebirth
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Spiteful_Rebirth

<<the initial summon doesn't require anything other than to be a warmage, I had it when i logged in.

Yup, me too. That ability isn't a metaspell. The metaspells are, which is what I'm asking about.

<<the metaspells, even if not signature, require the ability and are therefor useless to anyone else.

I understand clearly that mechanically it doesn't matter if they're signature or not. They still have a designation of being signature or not, however, and I would like elanthipedia to accurately reflect that designation. Either a GM response, or someone who can DISCERN them would be able to let me know. I can't on my warrior mage, because his account isn't premium and I don't have a high enough level warrior mage on the premium account to be able to get the full discern messaging.



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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/22/2015 11:32 PM CDT
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>if they are signature or not, and if they can be learned from a guildleader or are scroll only.

They are signature (since what would anybody else do with them), and can be learned from a guildleader once the preview is over.

Javac
That one guy

If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/22/2015 11:38 PM CDT
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I wasn't aware that discern reported scroll/signature state. It must need an absurd amount of arcana if it does.


>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/22/2015 11:53 PM CDT
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How do you learn these metaspells?
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 12:06 AM CDT
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Any chance reinforce stone could make them last a bit longer while sheathed/out of hand? Seems like about 30-40 seconds right now.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 12:10 AM CDT
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Can more than one metaspell apply to a weapon, or do you have to pick and choose? Like can I take the earth one and hold an awesome ingot and make something good, and then make it be on fire?

- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 12:19 AM CDT
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I think they're just passive effects, so holding an ingot and using SUMMON WEAPON FIRE or SHAPE <weapon> TO FIRE will apply both effects.



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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 12:35 AM CDT
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Is the ingot consumed when using the earth one?

Mazrian
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 01:17 AM CDT
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As an aside - just because it's a metaspell doesn't mean it's scroll only. There's a large overlap between the two, but it's not 1:1.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 08:32 AM CDT
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>How do you learn these metaspells?

You currently can't because they are on preview. Once the preview has ended, you will be able to learn them from any Guildleader.

>Any chance reinforce stone could make them last a bit longer while sheathed/out of hand?

There is a chance. I have to fix another bug when I get home from work, but will ask about making this cantrip work again.

>Is the ingot consumed when using the earth one?

No. However, there is a chance for quality loss, and under a certain skill level relative to the volume of the ingot you will always see a quality loss.

>Can more than one metaspell apply to a weapon, or do you have to pick and choose?
>I think they're just passive effects, so holding an ingot and using SUMMON WEAPON FIRE or SHAPE <weapon> TO FIRE will apply both effects.

The only metaspell effects that can't be simultaneously used are the Elemental damage ones. The weapon will only do one Elemental damage type, unless you also cast Ignite on it. For example, you should be able to SUMMON WEAPON {skill/element} {skill/element} or SHAPE {weapon} to {skill/element} {skill/element} to do it all in one step. If your weapon is elemental when you shape it to a different template or turn it, the new weapon will be that element as well, unless you specify a different one with SHAPE. TURN does not consider options.

>summon weapon ht fire
Closing your eyes, you grunt briefly in effort as you sense a small fiery ethereal fissure open in front of you. Thrusting your hand through, you draw out a fiery javelin. As you open your eyes, the fissure closes.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
>glance
You glance down to see a fiery javelin in your right hand and a damite ingot in your left hand.
>shape javelin to lt ice
You reach out with your will and reshape your javelin into a bola.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
>glance
You glance down to see an icy bola in your right hand and a damite ingot in your left hand.
>turn bola to electric
That doesn't seem to do much.
>turn bola
You reach out with your will and reshape your bola into an icy boomerang.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
>break boomer
Focusing your will, you rip the icy boomerang asunder, returning it to the Elemental planes.

Javac
That one guy

If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 01:33 PM CDT
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I figured out the problem I was having with shaping the weapon to a LE weapon. Turns out that there are a lot of people whose names start with "LE" and if you're in the room with them, the shaping will not be successful. Move away, everything is fine. Any chance this could be fixed?
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 01:38 PM CDT
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Do we have/can we have what techniques give us what in regards to the ability?

As a weaponsmith, can't wait for this to go off preview. I'm already trying to figure out what spells I can drop to maximize the options.

Game balance is sobbing over in the corner as it considers the ramifications of AoE Blufmor Garaen. Your spell slots send their condolences." - GM Raesh
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 02:16 PM CDT
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What's the highest tier weapon that can be created with the ability?

Base 2 + 1 for Metaspell + 1 for Crafting Technique = 4? Or can additional techniques and/or better metal add another tier?






Mazrian
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 02:19 PM CDT
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I will try this out with Tyrium after work.

- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 02:27 PM CDT
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> Base 2 + 1 for Metaspell + 1 for Crafting Technique = 4? Or can additional techniques and/or better metal add another tier?

My impression is 5 if you have the earth metaspell, the appropriate technique, and are using rare metal.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 02:30 PM CDT
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> I will try this out with Tyrium after work.

There's no need. Javac said that it treats all very rare or better metals the same.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 02:52 PM CDT
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>Turns out that there are a lot of people whose names start with "LE"

I will see about adding multi-word versions of SE, SB, LE, LB, 2HE, LT, HT, and 2HB this evening when I get home. Fixing LE to work is probably not feasible due to the parser, but I'll investigate.

Javac
That one guy

If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 02:58 PM CDT
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>There's no need. Javac said that it treats all very rare or better metals the same.

I know he said all the same and excludes platinum and gold, but any confirmation on exact ones? And if Elanthipedia page marked correctly for the Very Rare (Audrualm is Unique and Very Rare on the list, but isn't mineable). Figure be a good time to make sure our info is completely up to date.

Per https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Crafting_Materials#Rare_Metals_2
>Very Rare
Animite
Audrualm
Damite
Glaes
Haralun
Kertig



[20:11] Chatter[Arathael] Usually only get skill when it's successful.
[20:13] Chatter[Morpion] Thats why Arathael has 0.00 ranks in Getting Girls
[20:14] Chatter[Arathael] =(
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 03:08 PM CDT
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>I know he said all the same and excludes platinum and gold, but any confirmation on exact ones?

When I originally pushed it out, it included Rare and better. Now it is Very Rare and better, that's why platinum and gold no longer work, they're rare. Unique falls under "and better", or should.

Javac
That one guy

If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 03:24 PM CDT
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> When I originally pushed it out, it included Rare and better. Now it is Very Rare and better, that's why platinum and gold no longer work, they're rare.

Right, but the question was what precisely constitutes a very rare. My impression:

Rare: Darkstone, Electrum, Lumium, Muracite, Niniam, Platinum, Gold.
Very Rare: Animite, Damite, Glaes, Haralun, Kertig.
Unique: Audrualm, Icesteel, Kadepa(?), Orichalcum, Silversteel, Tyrium, Vardite.
No idea: Niello.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 03:31 PM CDT
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>No idea: Niello.

Niello I expect would fall into the unique category. It's not mineable that I've seen at all and has only been given as prizes from festival tasks/games.



>whisper card geva
Geva is unlikely to appreciate your gift.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 03:32 PM CDT
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> Niello I expect would fall into the unique category. It's not mineable that I've seen at all and has only been given as prizes from festival tasks/games.

I thought the plan was to make it a crucible recipe, though. Copper + silver + lead.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 03:45 PM CDT
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>I thought the plan was to make it a crucible recipe, though. Copper + silver + lead.

Well, that would make sense being that's how it is in the real world. However, I don't think that has happened at all or yet. All the Niello I have came from HE crafting tasks and I know others got some from the darkbox too.



>whisper card geva
Geva is unlikely to appreciate your gift.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 03:46 PM CDT
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Javac, I have a couple of questions about rare metals and also summoning skill. Here's what you said:

>>*The ingot must be of a certain quality, and if it is below a certain volume, the quality will be lowered. The volume required to avoid this quality penalty scales with Summoning skill, ending at over 1500 ranks. Regardless of skill, there is always a small random chance of quality loss. The quality loss is very small.

>>No. However, there is a chance for quality loss, and under a certain skill level relative to the volume of the ingot you will always see a quality loss.

Let's see if I'm understanding this correctly:
-If the ingot is below a certain quality, you won't get any bonus from holding it. (Will the quality still be reduced?)
-If it is below a certain volume, the quality will always be lowered.
-This minimum volume reduces with higher summoning skill, capping at beyond 1500 ranks.
-There is no way to work off the random chance of quality reduction.

Ok, one more question. What other role does Summoning skill play in this ability? It seems that it does not increase the stats of the weapon, that is all handled through metaspells, crafting techniques, and rare metal ingots.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 03:48 PM CDT
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> Well, that would make sense being that's how it is in the real world. However, I don't think that has happened at all or yet. All the Niello I have came from HE crafting tasks and I know others got some from the darkbox too.

Oh, it hasn't happened, so all the sources are unique. But it might be behind-the-scenes flagged as common in anticipation of being mixable.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 04:03 PM CDT
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>Oh, it hasn't happened, so all the sources are unique. But it might be behind-the-scenes flagged as common in anticipation of being mixable.

See I doubt that too, since it's on most if not all of the "must provide" lists for alterations.



>whisper card geva
Geva is unlikely to appreciate your gift.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 04:22 PM CDT
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>If the ingot is below a certain quality, you won't get any bonus from holding it. (Will the quality still be reduced?)

This is correct. (The quality should not be reduced if it is below the threshold to provide a bonus.)

>If it is below a certain volume, the quality will always be lowered.
>This minimum volume reduces with higher summoning skill, capping at beyond 1500 ranks.

A certain volume determined by your skill in Summoning, yes. Below 200 ranks in Summoning, you will always see a quality reduction. At 200 ranks, any ingot with volume X or greater will only get reduced by the random. At 200 + Y ranks, any ingot with volume X-1 or greater will only get reduced by the random. Et cetera, et cetera, scaling to over 1500 ranks in Summoning.

>There is no way to work off the random chance of quality reduction.

Correct. There is always a small chance the quality will be reduced. This random doesn't change. You do not get a double penalty for using too small of an ingot and hitting the random.

>What other role does Summoning skill play in this ability?

The other role it provides is RT reduction. All verbs scale down very quickly to a minimum of 5 seconds without the Air metaspell. The Air metaspell provides a further 4 second reduction.

Javac
That one guy

If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 05:13 PM CDT
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Is it too close to Guildfest for me to say "Please sell scrolls that let us modify the weapons similar to the Shield of Light scrolls"? Maybe ones that add cool fluff wave verbs, or change the appearance in some way.

>a fiery broadsword
>a flaming broadsword with a lava-veined stone hilt

etc...

Also this is me suggesting that a pretty sweet merchant would be one that let you take an existing weapon and consume it, adding a third turn option for its weapon type that gives you an identically appraising one. Not sure how technically feasible that is.

- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 06:45 PM CDT
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<<What's the highest tier weapon that can be created with the ability?
<<Base 2 + 1 for Metaspell + 1 for Crafting Technique = 4? Or can additional techniques and/or better metal add another tier?

Your weapon can range from tier 2 to tier 5.

Tier 5 = base 2 + 1 for knowing any metaspell + 1 for crafting technique + 1 for holding a very rare ingot.

I've listed the requirements for each tier in a new handy table on the elemental weapons page on the wiki (and incidentally the moonblade page too if you want to compare.)



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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/23/2015 06:53 PM CDT
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>I've listed the requirements for each tier in a new handy table on the elemental weapons page on the wiki (and incidentally the moonblade page too if you want to compare.)

Good call on this. One thing to possibly add is the durability is the same for all weapons at each level from toying with it today. I'm no good at making the wiki pages look nice with formatting.


[20:11] Chatter[Arathael] Usually only get skill when it's successful.
[20:13] Chatter[Morpion] Thats why Arathael has 0.00 ranks in Getting Girls
[20:14] Chatter[Arathael] =(
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/24/2015 08:54 AM CDT
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>Turns out that there are a lot of people whose names start with "LE"

I haven't been able to make LE work when someone whose name starts with Le is in the room, however, you can now use the long version of the skill name to get around this issue.

Javac
That one guy

If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/24/2015 10:04 AM CDT
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I am going to experiment and see if metal density matters.

- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/24/2015 11:24 AM CDT
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>Very extreme fire on my greatsword - so the slice became the fire damage (basically)

I might be not understanding the way this breaks down correctly, but it seems to me that you're taking a hit to slice to basically add the equivalent level of slice damage in the form of fire damage. It's not -x then +x = weapon damage, it's x-1 + x = weapon damage.

Coupled with the fact that the majority of armors have poor elemental resistance, and I have actually no idea what kind of elemental resists critters have (barring an assortment that have immunity to one or another elemental types) and it seems to me Elemental Weapons are hugely powerful, again, especially because you're not just adding a single Element, but with Ignite, actually adding two.

So, you get effectively x-1 slice/impact, +x (or nearly x) in Cold/Lightening, and then +some amount of fire. That's a lot of damage points being applied to these weapons, for ~50 ranks of a secondary skill (forging) and 2-4 spell slots.

Now, mind you, this is for a secondary skill (Weapons) and you can't give these weapons to anyone else, so I don't really think it's a bad thing, persay, but from where I'm sitting, this appears to be an incredibly potent offensive tool for Warmies. I'm impressed and more than a bit jealous.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/24/2015 11:30 AM CDT
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>>Coupled with the fact that the majority of armors have poor elemental resistance

Makes me regret not making more lumium armor during the days when lumium had the electrical/thermal stats of icesteel.



Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/24/2015 11:44 AM CDT
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I'm not really sure where creature elemental armor is at. Anecdotally, I feel pure elemental damage underperforms, especially electricity and to a lesser extent fire. This is equally likely to be confirmation bias since sources of electricity damage used to be more OP or language of grazing hits in spell messaging.

Shockwave's ice/slice feels like it hits a lot harder than CL's fire/electric, but it might only FEEL that way.



>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/24/2015 11:48 AM CDT
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You can appraise monster armor and anything they're wearing when still alive.

The greatsword kept a little slice, I'll post it later and a tiered up version.

Depending on the target it can be good or bad, but seems to do a similar amount of damage against the average critter using a real weapon (when I played in test)

Cabalists always had fire swords. They hurt even with decent elemental protection.

- will loading a spear in my atlatl break things?

- grounding field is useless against the elemental versions of these I'd assume?

___________________
You make a few adjustments to the Zoluren, and you feel confident that it will recognize you as its owner.
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/24/2015 11:56 AM CDT
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Also, can someone clarify for me how the lightening/cold/fire infusion stacks with Ignite?
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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/24/2015 12:03 PM CDT
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Ignite increases the damage proportionally based on the highest damage type, so it would still do the same just based off the elemental stat instead of a physical stat, assuming its the highest of course.



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Re: Elemental Weapons on 03/24/2015 12:05 PM CDT
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Same fire damage it'd add depending on weapon type/size and spell power (up to mod?). Except fire which gets a minor prolly unnoticeable bump, but you get the ignite Atmo effects.

So elelmental type and/or ignite would cause MOA to flare.
And fiery or ignited shock or icy swords would light naphtha.

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