Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 05:35 PM CDT
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>>MULEHERD

1 metaspell (1 spell slot), and 1 tech will get that weapon to Tier 4, which is crafted steel. Add more techs if you want more weapons to be crafted quality (which the bigger weapons can take several hundred ranks to master-craft with hi-steel). Bypassing 100s of ranks of Forging with 1 spell slot and 25 ranks in Forging doesn't seem like a steep penalty (or even a penalty).
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 05:39 PM CDT
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>>Bypassing 100s of ranks of Forging with 1 spell slot and 25 ranks in Forging doesn't seem like a steep penalty (or even a penalty).

It's a nod to the forging system, no more and no less. Just like Moon Mages can come up with T5 moonblades with only 25 ranks in Forging (50 without a hobby/career) invested.

-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Calvino Italo
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 05:41 PM CDT
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>>It's a nod to the forging system, no more and no less. Just like Moon Mages can come up with T5 moonblades with only 25 ranks in Forging (50 without a hobby/career) invested.

Not complaining about the system. Complaining about the complaining of a system that only adds more for the guild.
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 05:43 PM CDT
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Ahh. Carry on.

-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Calvino Italo
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 05:49 PM CDT
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<<All by itself, a tech will only get you to tier 3.

No it won't. In order to have the tech apply its effects you first need to know the metaspell Reinforced Infusions, which sets the minimum tier to 3 already just for knowing it (as do all of the metaspells.) I.e. a tech (or very rare metal which also requires the metaspell) will get you tier 4. Having both tech and very rare metal would make it tier 5.



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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 06:02 PM CDT
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could there be some way to adjust balance/suited for strength on the weapons with skill and/or techniques?

"Game balance is sobbing over in the corner as it considers the ramifications of AoE Blufmor Garaen. Your spell slots send their condolences." - GM Raesh
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 06:08 PM CDT
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It does go up with them.

Summoned crude stone scimitar is fairly/decent;y
Metaspell only and Metaspell and Tech stone scimitar is decently/decently

Guessing another jump maybe with rare ingot summon/tech/metaspell?

I've been playing with this and filling it in today some.

https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elemental_weapon

[20:11] Chatter[Arathael] Usually only get skill when it's successful.
[20:13] Chatter[Morpion] Thats why Arathael has 0.00 ranks in Getting Girls
[20:14] Chatter[Arathael] =(
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 06:10 PM CDT
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>>Tier 3 is storebought grade.

For what it's worth, this is my understanding of the tiers. The tier system seems to be a bit fuzzy so your mileage may vary. I'm also referencing only base stats, not the way scripts and other fun stuff bump up tiers. I also am sure that GM-tools can allow some variety in these, but so far I've pretty much only seen GMs produce stuff at 5 density.

Tier 2 is what [most] stores from 2.0 sell. Crossing broadsword quality stuff. If you want to put it in 3.0 terms, imagine what something with 80 hardness (lowsteel) has.

Tier 3 is 5 density midsteel, aka 85 hardness. AFAIK, regular run of the mill festival shops can sell T3 items without any crazy markup/limited editions/etc (unless that's what the GM wants, of course). This is what they mean by Tier 3 being "normal shops".

Tier 4 is 5 density highsteel, aka 90 hardness (only without the bad durability of highsteel). Some festival shops sell this stuff, but it's expensive/limited edition/etc.

Tier 5 is 5 density rare-metal, aka 95 hardness. Fancier quest drops and quest end prizes with a script attached have stats that are T5 (the quest end prize having some extra script is what makes it T6 though)

Tier 6 is 5 density ultra-rare metal. 99 hardness. Your tyrium/vardites, stat-wise.



Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 06:11 PM CDT
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>No it won't. In order to have the tech apply its effects you first need to know the metaspell Reinforced Infusions, which sets the minimum tier to 3 already just for knowing it (as do all of the metaspells.) I.e. a tech (or very rare metal which also requires the metaspell) will get you tier 4.

Oh, right, of course... but this still leaves you with something completely mundane. Like, "People literally hand out weapons of this grade to new players," mundane. So you're technically correct, but it's unimportant by any practical measure with respect to balance, and still makes it very silly to wring one's hands over "just" 25 ranks.

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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 06:48 PM CDT
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I'm looking at this probably more from the perspective of nothing abilities wise to look forward to anymore. So TO ME, agree or not, setting the bar so low as a basic tech of 25 ranks to start making "better then regular summoned crude stone weapons" is a waste and a saturation of abilities you gain right from the jump off in most guilds.

Awesome that all War Mages can start right out the gate using these, but basically you can top them out for say all Edged weapons in about 50-100 ranks of forging and some 1 spell slot meta spells (circles 1-50 we get a slot per circle) then add some rare materials and you're done. This doesn't add anything but less chance of lowering quality of ingots when summoned.

I love the release been playing with it for a large part of my day. I just wish they'd leave some parts harder to attain so the older players had stuff to work on.

[20:11] Chatter[Arathael] Usually only get skill when it's successful.
[20:13] Chatter[Morpion] Thats why Arathael has 0.00 ranks in Getting Girls
[20:14] Chatter[Arathael] =(
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 08:07 PM CDT
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fiery greatsword Fire damage of doom - rawr!!!!

It teaches okay, not the best, but better than some methods.

Random questions since I have preview spells:
So in order to shape you need aether/expansive infusions? Otherwise you only get your primary (up to quaternary or quinary? No bow love) weapon, and its turn options?

-Can the rare metal be cut? Like 1/3 trash or even a true alloy; or does it have to be pure 100% that material(not quality)

-Can earth be an alternative to stone?

-Fiery works most of the time normally fire defaults to my firecat lighter.

-had issues making LE/SE(tried both - HE worked fine) weapons from elemental forms, even using 'icy bola' or 'fiery greatsword' to make sure it wasn't tapping something else

-so do they last forever? Assuming it's not on the ground for 10 seconds? Or intentionally breaks?



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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 08:29 PM CDT
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>the values I posted were taken from Ndin's post in the other thread and I didn't think to check if it was the tier 2 or tier 3 stats.

Non-premie WM. Was saddened to see the metaspells were on premium preview, so I can only play with the base model for now.

-Master Ndin
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Ndin
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 08:31 PM CDT
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<<So in order to shape you need aether/expansive infusions? Otherwise you only get your primary (up to quaternary or quinary? No bow love) weapon, and its turn options?

In order to SHAPE you just need aether infusions. If you don't have this metaspell you can only create your highest melee or thrown weapon and its TURN variation. In both cases the weapons created will be either a tier 2 weapon if you know no metaspells at all, or tier 3 if you know any other metaspell. If you know the earth infusion then you can extend this to 4th or 5th tier.

Earth infusions gives you the ability to improve the tier of the weapon via weaponsmithing techniques and very rare metal ingots. This is the only way to reach tier 4 and tier 5 weapons. If you don't know the aether infusion then this will only apply to your highest melee or thrown weapon and its TURN variation.



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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 09:40 PM CDT
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>Can the rare metal be cut?

I am intentionally not revealing how the rare metal stuff works. This is the only PAFO portion of the system, and I like it that way.

>Can earth be an alternative to stone?

Yes... As soon as I get rid of some of the more pressing bugs. Remind me if this hasn't happened in a week or two.

>had issues making LE/SE(tried both - HE worked fine) weapons from elemental forms, even using 'icy bola' or 'fiery greatsword' to make sure it wasn't tapping something else

One of those more pressing bugs is the parsing issue(s). I recently put something in that should help with this.

>so do they last forever? Assuming it's not on the ground for 10 seconds? Or intentionally breaks?

Currently, yes. This is subject to change.

>you can only create your highest melee or thrown weapon

Your highest melee weapon. All thrown templates require Expansive Infusions, even if they are higher than all melee weapons.

> I just wish they'd leave some parts harder to attain so the older players had stuff to work on.

This was intentionally designed as a low-level way to train Summoning. I hated the fact that the only way to train it from first circle was to fill a pool you can't use.

Javac
That one guy

If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 09:48 PM CDT
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>>Can earth be an alternative to stone?

>Yes... As soon as I get rid of some of the more pressing bugs. Remind me if this hasn't happened in a week or two.

Uuh, along the lines of this, I was somewhat shocked to see someone fill in the adjective for a lightning weapon as 'shocking.' Is that for real? If so it should probably be some less surprising word like arcing.


>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 09:57 PM CDT
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>Uuh, along the lines of this, I was somewhat shocked to see someone fill in the adjective for a lightning weapon as 'shocking.'

I don't know what you mean. The adjective for weapons that do electric damage is 'electric'.

Javac
That one guy

If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 10:02 PM CDT
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Hey gang, I am sorry to clog the queue here, but I am at a loss as to how all this works.

I was able to summon a crude stone scimitar.

My goal is to be able to summon Tier 5 scimitars and quarterstaves.

I see mention of rare metals, forging skills, and metaspells, but not sure how they all come together to get me to my goals.

Assuming I only want forging as a hobby, not a career, how can I go about reaching my goal - I realize there's a ton of work ahead. Can someone PM me on what I need to do? I am mostly confused by which forging techniques I'll need and what constitutes a rare metal.

Gah - so much to learn since I returned to this game.

__
"Technically correct" is the worst kind of correct.
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 10:07 PM CDT
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<<Uuh, along the lines of this, I was somewhat shocked to see someone fill in the adjective for a lightning weapon as 'shocking.' Is that for real? If so it should probably be some less surprising word like arcing.

I just took a guess based on the names of the infusion metaspells and how they matched the element type for the other two. I created a newbie warrior mage on my premium account to test, and it is actually an electric <weapon>. Fixing the wiki now.



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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 10:10 PM CDT
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Just in case you all didn't try it out. Mark of Arhat reacts to the weapons

The branded lines of fire on a Dragon Priest zealot burn with a faint red color!
< Driving in with naturally fluid movements, you swing an icy broadsword at a Dragon Priest zealot. A Dragon Priest zealot badly fails to block with a dark steel lata'oloh with an curved oak hilt.
The broadsword lands a hard (6/23) hit to the zealot's chest.
[You're winded, adeptly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
[Roundtime 4 sec.]

[20:11] Chatter[Arathael] Usually only get skill when it's successful.
[20:13] Chatter[Morpion] Thats why Arathael has 0.00 ranks in Getting Girls
[20:14] Chatter[Arathael] =(
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 10:21 PM CDT
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<<Hey gang, I am sorry to clog the queue here, but I am at a loss as to how all this works.
<<Assuming I only want forging as a hobby, not a career, how can I go about reaching my goal - I realize there's a ton of work ahead.

Most of what you want to know is here: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elemental_weapon

As for crafting... You don't need a career or hobby in weaponsmithing in order to create higher tier elemental weapons. You just need skill in Forging which is what grants techniques. That said, if you want to create tier 5 weapons of every kind you'll need a total of 11 weaponsmithing techniques which would take 700 ranks. A career or hobby gives you additional bonus techniques above and beyond the base ones from skill, so you could get there faster than that if willing to spend one of your permanent career or hobby choices on it. If you went with a career or a hobby you could get all eleven as early as 200 ranks.

If you don't want to create tier 5 weapons of all of the types, only the ones you use regularly then you'll need to figure out which techniques you need for those weapons and how many slots you'll need.
Techniques needed: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elemental_weapon#Templates in the table under 'W/S Tech'
Technique tree: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Weaponsmithing_Techniques
Technique slots earned: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Crafting#Technique_Slots

Very rare metals are listed here: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Category:Crafting_materials#Forging_Materials
Basically sort the rare metals table by price and everything that is more expensive than platinum should work.



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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 10:22 PM CDT
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>Most of what you want to know is here...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii wil always love yoooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuu!

Thank you for this. Huge help!

__
"Technically correct" is the worst kind of correct.
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/23/2015 10:39 PM CDT
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>I just took a guess based on the names of the infusion metaspells and how they matched the element type for the other two.

My soule bitake I unto Sathanas, I expected some noob to be mucking up Elanthipedia with inaccuracies, not the editors! Shaaame.


>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/24/2015 02:15 AM CDT
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>>If you don't want to create tier 5 weapons of all of the types, only the ones you use regularly then you'll need to figure out which techniques you need for those weapons and how many slots you'll need.

What's missing to get the t5 data for the chart? Is there anything else needed that's not listed?

"Game balance is sobbing over in the corner as it considers the ramifications of AoE Blufmor Garaen. Your spell slots send their condolences." - GM Raesh
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/24/2015 06:08 AM CDT
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>>What's missing to get the t5 data for the chart?

I'd guess someone with a very rare metal ingot they're willing to give up for testing, and enough tech slots for all the weapons. Shuffling techs around can get expensive.
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/24/2015 07:21 AM CDT
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It'll be interesting to see how significantly adding fire and lightening/cold damage to a weapon increases its capabilities. That Warmies can produce a T5 quality weapon that also has hefty elemental damage buffs is certainly a selling point for the guild now.
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/24/2015 08:41 AM CDT
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Very extreme fire on my greatsword - so the slice became the fire damage (basically)
Bola was no/no/no and like somewhat mod fire- so like throwing an actual fireball

It was similar in Test awhile back as far as the damage swaps.

Shaping techs for elemental arrows? :P
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/24/2015 08:46 AM CDT
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Oh and with the air metaspell I got 1 RT on everything - summon, swap, and turn with just under 1000 summoning.
I could make about 4? Weapons before I was outta resolve

Handy but not game breaking

___________________
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/24/2015 01:41 PM CDT
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>Can earth be an alternative to stone?

EARTH and EARTHEN are now alternatives to STONE.

Javac
That one guy

If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/24/2015 06:18 PM CDT
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<<>Can earth be an alternative to stone?
<<EARTH and EARTHEN are now alternatives to STONE.

How about making SHOCKING be an option for ELECTRIC to match the name of the infusion.



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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/24/2015 06:21 PM CDT
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I motion that we add "Cherry" "Lime" and "Grape" as synonyms.

-Raesh

(Bonus points to Javac if he actually does this)

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/24/2015 06:27 PM CDT
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<<I motion that we add "Cherry" "Lime" and "Grape" as synonyms.

Fanta, fanta! Wanta fanta!



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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/26/2015 06:32 PM CDT
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The maul and heavy sledgehammer 2HB have the same appraisals since they use the same weapon template. Should there be another option? all the other skills are different enough, either weight, balance or damage attributes.


Also I did something weird - again...


so... summon weapon 2hb, turn maul, shape maul to icy/fiery/etc, and it keeps the stone adjective.

fiery stone heavy sledgehammer, icy stone, electric stone... seems to be just with sledgehammers, and just with the stone versions. Like the maul was fine, greatsword was fine, or if I turned a fiery/icy/electric sword into a maul then turned it, it didn't have the stone adjective.

turning it into a maul and back fixees it and makes the stone part go away.


Obviously the game is broken and we're all doomed.

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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/26/2015 07:26 PM CDT
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>fiery stone heavy sledgehammer

Should be fixed.

Javac
That one guy

If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/26/2015 09:52 PM CDT
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Javac,

If there's any way possible you could make an elemental arrow... even if it's just a storebought appraising one... i would reroll to Warmage and never look back.

Scholars write history in books; Warriors write it in blood.
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/27/2015 07:10 AM CDT
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>If there's any way possible you could make an elemental arrow

Manabow is sweet. Let me add elemental magic to it also! (and make YS get rid of shield penalty!)

You get a silvery grey-black alerce shortbow tinged with reddish highlights from inside your silverweave backpack.

>l shortbow
Long known for its symbiotic relationship with natural mineral deposits, the unique sample of alerce used to craft this weapon appears to have incorporated veins of cambrinth.

> load short

As you draw back the string of your alerce shortbow, you feel a tugging sensation before an incandescent ethereal mist coalesces into a golden arrow, loading the weapon!
Your small shield makes the task more difficult.
Roundtime: 4 sec.

> recall short

The alerce shortbow is imbued with special properties created by Lograr, renowned Gnome enchanter. The distinguished artisan derived inspiration for many of his mystical incantations from observations of natural phenomena in the surrounding environment during his many expeditions.

There is no documentation on what inspired Lograr to develop the energy bow. Instead, only rumors have filtered down through history. One verbal account is that Lograr saw a falling star and was inspired to create a weapon based on its appearance. Other accounts mention silver fish darting through a stream and another fireworks.

Regardless of the origin of his idea, Lograr's enchanting did have a side effect. Any enchanting always drained energy of some sort from the weapon's user. Lograr was never able to prevent this and was even remarked to have said that it was only logical that the weapon functioned in that manner. However, through much experimenting, we was able to direct the type of energy drained and created versions of the weapon for each type of drained energy.
Roundtime: 2 sec.

R> app short careful

A silvery grey-black alerce shortbow tinged with reddish highlights is a short bow type weapon.
A silvery grey-black alerce shortbow tinged with reddish highlights trains the bow skill.

The alerce shortbow is extremely well designed for improving the force of your attacks.

You are certain that the shortbow is soundly (8/14) balanced and is fairly (5/14) suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.

You are certain that the alerce shortbow is appreciably susceptible to damage (7/18), and is in pristine condition (98-100%).

It appears that the alerce shortbow can be slung over one shoulder.
You are certain that the alerce shortbow weighs exactly 20 stones.
You are unable to determine the value of the alerce shortbow.
Roundtime: 16 seconds.

R> app arr on short

You are certain that it could do:
fair (5/26) puncture damage
low (3/26) slice damage
moderate (7/26) impact damage

no fire damage
no cold damage
no electric damage

The golden arrow is terribly designed for improving the force of your attacks.

You are certain that the golden arrow is appreciably susceptible to damage (7/18), and is in pristine condition (98-100%).



[20:11] Chatter[Arathael] Usually only get skill when it's successful.
[20:13] Chatter[Morpion] Thats why Arathael has 0.00 ranks in Getting Girls
[20:14] Chatter[Arathael] =(
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/27/2015 11:05 AM CDT
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Typo:

However, through much experimenting, we was able to direct the type of energy drained and created versions of the weapon for each type of drained energy.



Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/27/2015 12:57 PM CDT
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>However, through much experimenting, we was able to direct the type of energy drained and created versions of the weapon for each type of drained energy.

I'll pass this a long, but it might help if you (the owner) BUG it as well.

Javac
That one guy

If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/27/2015 01:16 PM CDT
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I'm confused, Are those bows available in Prime? I had no idea they even existed. Do they have long and composite versions as well?

damn, something else to hunt down.

Rehlyn

A Maelshyvean shadow beast slows long enough to deeply inhale some of the swirling shadows surrounding it. After a moment, it sighs with great releif and blackness oozes from its ears and nostrils.
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/27/2015 02:11 PM CDT
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Bow is from last HE auction. So there should be one in Prime. I bought it over Plat side. There is a crossbow that goes off spirit too. Only 2 weapons I know of like them. https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Hollow_Eve_Festival_414_Auction Prime side Lukretia bought it.

Lemme add some fire tho Javac pweeeaase?

[20:11] Chatter[Arathael] Usually only get skill when it's successful.
[20:13] Chatter[Morpion] Thats why Arathael has 0.00 ranks in Getting Girls
[20:14] Chatter[Arathael] =(
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Re: Elemental weapon questions... on 03/28/2015 12:37 PM CDT
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Might just be nitpicking. But is it possible to add in an adjective or something to the stone versions so it shows what 'tier' or techs/spells/ingot in play?

For instance
tier 2 -Crude stone xxxxxx
tier 3 -stone xxxxxx
tier 4 -exceptional stone xxxxxx
tier 4 -outstanding stone xxxxxx
tier 5 -masterfully-crafted stone xxxxxx

These words just taken from the crafting levels chart I'm sure someone with more creativity come up with better. Unless this would make the elemental forms go crazy.


[20:11] Chatter[Arathael] Usually only get skill when it's successful.
[20:13] Chatter[Morpion] Thats why Arathael has 0.00 ranks in Getting Girls
[20:14] Chatter[Arathael] =(
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