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>LB which will be much more avoidable.
LB already works under rules similar to the announced system of converting parry into evasion... except maybe worse because it just multiplies evasion directly. Did anyone ever get the exact numbers? That nerf happened like a year ago.
...also who the heck is there to compare Wythor's tenure to? Seriously? His announcements are half the entire WM GM announcements folder and GMs who spent most of their time having fallen off the planet.
GAH. What kind of pants-on-head nostalgia is this? GAH.
THAT SAID...
>
I'd like to know what it means to be a Warrior Mage in Dragonrealms again, does anyone really know?
There are like a half-dozen threads about this in our forum... I suggest looking them up for anyone who hasn't glanced over at least one of them... but there's still never really been an answer. The 'soul' of the guild is the biggest missing element right now.
Then again, finding that soul is being hampered by a lot of WMs who only seem able to conceptualize the guild in terms of the numbers the game is spitting out.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
>>I'd like to know what it means to be a Warrior Mage in Dragonrealms again, does anyone really know? What real edge in combat do we hold, how do we separate ourselves from any other combat mage out there?
Currently, the Warrior Mage edge is Bigger Numbers. I do not fault Wythor for going for this approach, since it is the approach Warrior Mage developers have always taken, and he took considerable care to balance this with disadvantages, spell synergies, and otherwise not do the whole Aether Lash thing. However, it is an untenable position that will not continue to exist.
In the New World Order, the Warrior Mage edge will be a wide variety of offensive magic spells supplemented with combat-utility temporary weapon enchantments. We've also compromised on a way to add meaningful familiar combat into the mix, though that is not a Magic 3 release goal.
>>...spells getting released that have been in QC for over a year with a parasite of bugs attached with it?
For what it's worth, the messaging bugs were mine. I changed most of BG's TM messaging prior to release.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Currently, the Warrior Mage edge is Bigger Numbers. I do not fault Wythor for going for this approach, since it is the approach Warrior Mage developers have always taken, and he took considerable care to balance this with disadvantages, spell synergies, and otherwise not do the whole Aether Lash thing. However, it is an untenable position that will not continue to exist.
In the New World Order, the Warrior Mage edge will be a wide variety of offensive magic spells supplemented with combat-utility temporary weapon enchantments. We've also compromised on a way to add meaningful familiar combat into the mix, though that is not a Magic 3 release goal.
>>...spells getting released that have been in QC for over a year with a parasite of bugs attached with it?
For what it's worth, the messaging bugs were mine. I changed most of BG's TM messaging prior to release.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
>>In the New World Order, the Warrior Mage edge will be a wide variety of offensive magic spells supplemented with combat-utility temporary weapon enchantments.
This seems to be the only thing we having going for us currently, a wide variety of offensive spells, most of which that serve the same purpose. Though that's one of the major goals for 3.0 with spell usage, to knock off the redundancy in the current system.
More specifically, in what way will Targeted Magic continue to be the specialty of War Magi, comparative to a Moon Mage's ability with perception, a Cleric's ability with harnessing... ect.
>>We've also compromised on a way to add meaningful familiar combat into the mix, though that is not a Magic 3 release goal.
This sounds great, but hopefully were not going to be borrowing the current system from Necromancers. I'm sure we would all love to hear more details concerning this.
Which would be worse? To live as a monster or to die as a good man?
This seems to be the only thing we having going for us currently, a wide variety of offensive spells, most of which that serve the same purpose. Though that's one of the major goals for 3.0 with spell usage, to knock off the redundancy in the current system.
More specifically, in what way will Targeted Magic continue to be the specialty of War Magi, comparative to a Moon Mage's ability with perception, a Cleric's ability with harnessing... ect.
>>We've also compromised on a way to add meaningful familiar combat into the mix, though that is not a Magic 3 release goal.
This sounds great, but hopefully were not going to be borrowing the current system from Necromancers. I'm sure we would all love to hear more details concerning this.
Which would be worse? To live as a monster or to die as a good man?
>>That's not exactly what I had in mind, I don't want a spell to become useless unless otherwise combined in the 'matrix' of another. I'd like to see them have multiple uses outside of just a single type of action.
As a matter of game balance, I will not allow one plus one to equal three.
The options for spell synergies are:
1: Aesthetic changes.
2: Lateral changes (a zero-sum edit, or removing one feature to "make room" for another).
3: An avenue for investing more spell slots to pay for the 3rd+ effect.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
As a matter of game balance, I will not allow one plus one to equal three.
The options for spell synergies are:
1: Aesthetic changes.
2: Lateral changes (a zero-sum edit, or removing one feature to "make room" for another).
3: An avenue for investing more spell slots to pay for the 3rd+ effect.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
>More specifically, in what way will Targeted Magic continue to be the specialty of War Magi, comparative to a Moon Mage's ability with perception, a Cleric's ability with harnessing... ect.
A big way is the Pathway system, however that susses out.
A secondary way is 'more options'. Warrior Mages will have the most methods of trying to kill people with magic, so that in general if they know the weak point of a target, they will have the spell to exploit that.
Other guilds will be more limited in their selections, having well-rounded but not exhaustive capabilities.
-Z
A big way is the Pathway system, however that susses out.
A secondary way is 'more options'. Warrior Mages will have the most methods of trying to kill people with magic, so that in general if they know the weak point of a target, they will have the spell to exploit that.
Other guilds will be more limited in their selections, having well-rounded but not exhaustive capabilities.
-Z
>>This sounds great, but hopefully were not going to be borrowing the current system from Necromancers. I'm sure we would all love to hear more details concerning this.
The basic idea is that you will gain access to a Cyclic spell that makes your familiar combat-ready, which will continue to be the case until the Cyclic spell is dropped or runs out of gas. In effect, the familiar becomes a form of "spell damage" in the Attunement cost sense, and not an independent damage multiplier on top of your weapon and spellcasting capabilities.
However, I stress again this is not a Magic 3 release goal. I bring it up only because it's something that we've talked about in the recent past, and I wanted to clarify that our position had changed.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
The basic idea is that you will gain access to a Cyclic spell that makes your familiar combat-ready, which will continue to be the case until the Cyclic spell is dropped or runs out of gas. In effect, the familiar becomes a form of "spell damage" in the Attunement cost sense, and not an independent damage multiplier on top of your weapon and spellcasting capabilities.
However, I stress again this is not a Magic 3 release goal. I bring it up only because it's something that we've talked about in the recent past, and I wanted to clarify that our position had changed.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
>>1: Aesthetic changes.
2: Lateral changes (a zero-sum edit, or removing one feature to "make room" for another).
3: An avenue for investing more spell slots to pay for the 3rd+ effect.<<
I can dig that line of thought. I'm really not looking for a way to see War Mages to have unbalanced spells at their disposal just a more..dynamic way of using magic in general. It seems too linear and static the way it currently stands.
2: Lateral changes (a zero-sum edit, or removing one feature to "make room" for another).
3: An avenue for investing more spell slots to pay for the 3rd+ effect.<<
I can dig that line of thought. I'm really not looking for a way to see War Mages to have unbalanced spells at their disposal just a more..dynamic way of using magic in general. It seems too linear and static the way it currently stands.
>>so that in general if they know the weak point of a target, they will have the spell to exploit that.
With advantages of being the TM guild, how do we explore the weak points of a target to use corresponding spells?
You know what bothers me in a big way, is that Warmages are the supposed 'master of elements', yet we cannot completely reign in that advantage.
All critters in DragonRealms have elemental weakness, correct? Why is that we don't have a way to discern this, or some way to discover their elemental attributes.
Which would be worse? To live as a monster or to die as a good man?
With advantages of being the TM guild, how do we explore the weak points of a target to use corresponding spells?
You know what bothers me in a big way, is that Warmages are the supposed 'master of elements', yet we cannot completely reign in that advantage.
All critters in DragonRealms have elemental weakness, correct? Why is that we don't have a way to discern this, or some way to discover their elemental attributes.
Which would be worse? To live as a monster or to die as a good man?
>>A secondary way is 'more options'. Warrior Mages will have the most methods of trying to kill people with magic, so that in general if they know the weak point of a target, they will have the spell to exploit that.
I have always felt this to be a benefit of Warrior Mages. How about a spell or ability that will let the Mage find out what that weakness is in their opponent? It could be a pathway perceive ability. They can perceive the flow of aether around their target and find that Fire or Electricity or what have you would flow easiest at the target. If part of the goal of DragonRealms 3.0 is to make combat last longer, this would really give a bonus to Warrior Mages.
I have always felt this to be a benefit of Warrior Mages. How about a spell or ability that will let the Mage find out what that weakness is in their opponent? It could be a pathway perceive ability. They can perceive the flow of aether around their target and find that Fire or Electricity or what have you would flow easiest at the target. If part of the goal of DragonRealms 3.0 is to make combat last longer, this would really give a bonus to Warrior Mages.
I'm a bit curious about a few spells and what will happen with them since we don't want so much redundancy in our spells.
TC and SD are effect stun effect spells. One is area wide and one gives nerve damage.
Tremor and Vertigo are unbalance/knock down spells. One can't be cast indoors but has room effect capability.
Are there current ideas for making these a bit more unique in functionality or are they considered different enough to be kept as is? Are you near the point in the revamp that you're seeking them?
Is there a possibility Tremor could be cast inside but not indoors giving it potential to cause falling debris such as rocks or stalagtites in caves or sewers?
You laugh when you think of how funny you looked in a mirror the last time.
TC and SD are effect stun effect spells. One is area wide and one gives nerve damage.
Tremor and Vertigo are unbalance/knock down spells. One can't be cast indoors but has room effect capability.
Are there current ideas for making these a bit more unique in functionality or are they considered different enough to be kept as is? Are you near the point in the revamp that you're seeking them?
Is there a possibility Tremor could be cast inside but not indoors giving it potential to cause falling debris such as rocks or stalagtites in caves or sewers?
You laugh when you think of how funny you looked in a mirror the last time.
>Is there a possibility Tremor could be cast inside but not indoors giving it potential to cause falling debris such as rocks or stalagtites in caves or sewers?
The more likely case is that Tremor probably gets to be cast anywhere but might be more/less costly to cast depending where you are.
-Z
The more likely case is that Tremor probably gets to be cast anywhere but might be more/less costly to cast depending where you are.
-Z
>>I can dig that line of thought. I'm really not looking for a way to see War Mages to have unbalanced spells at their disposal just a more..dynamic way of using magic in general. It seems too linear and static the way it currently stands.
A small part of that is intentional, calling to the mechanistic quality of magic on Elanthia. Unlike Earth, it's not natural philosophy or alchemy, but magic that has given birth to the faint beginnings of the scientific revolution. This gets explored in more detail with the Moon Mages (which is structured as essentially a parody of academia) and Necromancers (who, in their own sick way, rely on themes of humanism and modernity).
A larger part of it is simply the need to reign in the concept of magic to make it work in a game where the people who can bend reality with their brains need to be on par with the people who choose not to.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
A small part of that is intentional, calling to the mechanistic quality of magic on Elanthia. Unlike Earth, it's not natural philosophy or alchemy, but magic that has given birth to the faint beginnings of the scientific revolution. This gets explored in more detail with the Moon Mages (which is structured as essentially a parody of academia) and Necromancers (who, in their own sick way, rely on themes of humanism and modernity).
A larger part of it is simply the need to reign in the concept of magic to make it work in a game where the people who can bend reality with their brains need to be on par with the people who choose not to.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
>>A larger part of it is simply the need to reign in the concept of magic to make it work in a game where the people who can bend reality with their brains need to be on par with the people who choose not to.<<
I always played around with the concept that the various types of 'mana' that Elanthia is laden with would be some past remnants of titanic forces, residual power left behind by Powers/Species beyond the conceptions of moral or even the Immortals understanding and that toying with the fabric of reality via this source of energy could have deadly consequences - such as when we try to combine different manas together and you see exploding limbs.
Of course, I guess most people wouldn't enjoy having that chance for every spell they cast. :P
I always played around with the concept that the various types of 'mana' that Elanthia is laden with would be some past remnants of titanic forces, residual power left behind by Powers/Species beyond the conceptions of moral or even the Immortals understanding and that toying with the fabric of reality via this source of energy could have deadly consequences - such as when we try to combine different manas together and you see exploding limbs.
Of course, I guess most people wouldn't enjoy having that chance for every spell they cast. :P
>>I would in fact like players better able to discern the armor properties of a creature.
Are you saying that critters haven't been properly exposed to elemental attributes? Where one creature, take for example a water sprite, is vulnerable to electricity based attacks and resistant to water based attacks?
Which would be worse? To live as a monster or to die as a good man?
Are you saying that critters haven't been properly exposed to elemental attributes? Where one creature, take for example a water sprite, is vulnerable to electricity based attacks and resistant to water based attacks?
Which would be worse? To live as a monster or to die as a good man?
>Are you saying that critters haven't been properly exposed to elemental attributes? Where one creature, take for example a water sprite, is vulnerable to electricity based attacks and resistant to water based attacks?
That's correct, that's not actually how it works in general. Creatures have armor just like the armor you wear, and it has similar attributes. So 'weak' against would simply mean they have the least armor to.
-Z
That's correct, that's not actually how it works in general. Creatures have armor just like the armor you wear, and it has similar attributes. So 'weak' against would simply mean they have the least armor to.
-Z
>>That's correct, that's not actually how it works in general.
But of course there are some armorless critters out there in which their entire composition revolves around elemental fluency? Especially sprites, snow goblins, firecats, frostweavers, snowbeasts, dryads... ect.
I know most resistances spawn off of armor reducing comoponents, but don't the people/creatures have any natural elemental attributes? If not, how come?
Which would be worse? To live as a monster or to die as a good man?
But of course there are some armorless critters out there in which their entire composition revolves around elemental fluency? Especially sprites, snow goblins, firecats, frostweavers, snowbeasts, dryads... ect.
I know most resistances spawn off of armor reducing comoponents, but don't the people/creatures have any natural elemental attributes? If not, how come?
Which would be worse? To live as a monster or to die as a good man?
>don't the people/creatures have any natural elemental attributes?
I think what he's saying is that natural elemental attributes are worked into armor. Even if we can't see the armor, every creature has "armor" in the form of their natural skin or what have you.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
I think what he's saying is that natural elemental attributes are worked into armor. Even if we can't see the armor, every creature has "armor" in the form of their natural skin or what have you.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
So for a pretend example:
Frost scythe would be a slot, and the ice weapon aspect would be another slot, (if it's not initially a 2 slot spell). Possibly leaving room for another slot to make larger scythes or some kind of ice enchantment?
If that sounds close...
I'm guessing newbs might get a few slots to start with?
I know we're getting tons more slots but ,With all these new avenues for effects would we get more slots with higher circles?
More skill = more ability to use, understand, learn magic.
As it is now, Gauthus seems to think I need to wait 5 circles before I can learn air bubble or some other spell I've avoided for 100 circles.
_________________________________
An old cranky ogre with no legs says, "Naarg wives all this Naarg wives now."
Frost scythe would be a slot, and the ice weapon aspect would be another slot, (if it's not initially a 2 slot spell). Possibly leaving room for another slot to make larger scythes or some kind of ice enchantment?
If that sounds close...
I'm guessing newbs might get a few slots to start with?
I know we're getting tons more slots but ,With all these new avenues for effects would we get more slots with higher circles?
More skill = more ability to use, understand, learn magic.
As it is now, Gauthus seems to think I need to wait 5 circles before I can learn air bubble or some other spell I've avoided for 100 circles.
_________________________________
An old cranky ogre with no legs says, "Naarg wives all this Naarg wives now."
Damage weaknesses don't tend to be very pronounced, and the huge damage numbers that are normal under the current combat system makes them pretty irrelevant.
It's annoying that damage (and spell) immunities are relatively common, on the flipside. I hate it when critters get to just ignore a spell without a contest.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
It's annoying that damage (and spell) immunities are relatively common, on the flipside. I hate it when critters get to just ignore a spell without a contest.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
>>Is the frost damage TM spell going to be a prereq of sorts for the ice weapon spell, or can we say, jump right to that if we don't want the TM portion?
Part of Magic 3.0 is to get rid of rigid spell trees and pre-reqs so they'll be more fluid.
Big spells like chain lightning and fire rain will still retain the tree-like pre-reqs.
_______________________
Sit down, proud, empty, hollow things that you are! Let this remind you why you once feared the dark.
-Prince Nuada, Hellboy II
Part of Magic 3.0 is to get rid of rigid spell trees and pre-reqs so they'll be more fluid.
Big spells like chain lightning and fire rain will still retain the tree-like pre-reqs.
_______________________
Sit down, proud, empty, hollow things that you are! Let this remind you why you once feared the dark.
-Prince Nuada, Hellboy II
I am aware, but what I am wondering is that, let's say FRS would be a spell that, to have it be as it is now, would take 2 "slots" - one for the TM spell, and one for the weapon creation bit. I am wondering if you can get them in either order, or you need the first to get the second.
- Starlear -
- Starlear -
<<Warrior Mages will have the most methods of trying to kill people with magic>>
groovy.
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
I don't know what all the doom and gloom is about, i'm pretty excited about magic 3.0 and i'm typically one of the most negative, QQing WM's around.
Remember that with the WM skillset and the capability to level by never leaving combat that if you truly want to be an unstoppable fighting force you will get there easier as a WM then with any other guild.
I see our magic only getting more powerful with the changes, the few things we were lacking such as weapon boosts and a greater variety of spell contests are already in the works.
And honestly rewriting DB to anything different from now is an improvement. It's a fun spell if you want to kill noobs fast with it. Face an opponent even remotely close to your skill and they'll laugh at you for even trying. Same goes for a lot of our other spells. I don't remember the last time i used MOA other then for giggles and tingle being our most reliable disabler is just sad.
I've got faith in the GMs now to continue improving the game as well as our guild the way they have done in so many other areas.
Remember that with the WM skillset and the capability to level by never leaving combat that if you truly want to be an unstoppable fighting force you will get there easier as a WM then with any other guild.
I see our magic only getting more powerful with the changes, the few things we were lacking such as weapon boosts and a greater variety of spell contests are already in the works.
And honestly rewriting DB to anything different from now is an improvement. It's a fun spell if you want to kill noobs fast with it. Face an opponent even remotely close to your skill and they'll laugh at you for even trying. Same goes for a lot of our other spells. I don't remember the last time i used MOA other then for giggles and tingle being our most reliable disabler is just sad.
I've got faith in the GMs now to continue improving the game as well as our guild the way they have done in so many other areas.
