Previous Thread
Previous
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
After much futile discussion with the Ur-Daemon tainted Luukosians of the Sanctum of Scales, extermination squads from neighboring Phannus were sent into the decaying Luukosian stronghold to put a stop to the troubles there once and for all.
They're lurks now. Oops.
However, their significant efforts against the Luukosian population have resulted in fewer massive swarms in the Sanctum. (This is a roundabout way of saying that spawn rates and population pressures there have been brought more in line with other areas of similar level.)
Auchand
As someone who is well post-cap, I find this very disappointing. It was the one area in the game that was actually challenging unlike the other capped hunting grounds. The extra swarming also added an excitement factor. I hope that this can be reconsidered in the near future.
Siierra O'Leigha
Faith Healer
Devout Follower of Imaera
Siierra O'Leigha
Faith Healer
Devout Follower of Imaera
>As someone who is well post-cap, I find this very disappointing. It was the one area in the game that was actually challenging unlike the other capped hunting grounds. The extra swarming also added an excitement factor. I hope that this can be reconsidered in the near future.
I'd like to think that it will still be challenging, but we'll collect data going forward to make sure we've got it dialed in right. The swarms when groups were there were frequently oppressive, though!
As far as more challenging stuff, I hear you.
Auchand
Captain of the Firebird
I'd like to think that it will still be challenging, but we'll collect data going forward to make sure we've got it dialed in right. The swarms when groups were there were frequently oppressive, though!
As far as more challenging stuff, I hear you.
Auchand
Captain of the Firebird
Spirit of compromise is always goood. But that proposal would not be a great deal for those who don't like the swarms. The rest area with easy access to both the creatures and the vat is inside the spire. Resting anywhere else safe requires crossing the sea of fire. Splitting it the reverse way (swarms on the floor) would also be a bad deal, as you would have to cross that area to enter the "regular" hunting.
A workable compromise would require more work from staff. If the spire were higher, the mega swarms could be kept to the topmost floors and above, which leaves a clear path to the vat and the rest area. Or a room could be added on the ground floor. But those are all changes that would require altering the area design.
I'm not sure making those changes just to keep the spawn rate at this level would make sense. The spawn rate was a little bit insane, TBH. Was fun to 950 once and be fried, but that was crazy.
I'm with Siierra. This is a disappointing change. It takes long enough to fry in the area, and the swarms made hunting risky and exciting.
Instead of complaining, as a solo hunter I paid attention, used PEER, moved quickly and overall changed my other tactics when swarms were present.
P.S.
Setting a couple of gold rings takes care of the sea of fire issue.
Instead of complaining, as a solo hunter I paid attention, used PEER, moved quickly and overall changed my other tactics when swarms were present.
P.S.
Setting a couple of gold rings takes care of the sea of fire issue.
<<Spirit of compromise is always good. But that proposal would not be a great deal for those who don't like the swarms.
There is always every other capped hunting ground, this was the one that swarms. Its a joke without swarms as the mobs are crazy easy one on one. It sounds like everyone wants an even easier Nelemar, a hunting ground without risk.
~Sabotage
There is always every other capped hunting ground, this was the one that swarms. Its a joke without swarms as the mobs are crazy easy one on one. It sounds like everyone wants an even easier Nelemar, a hunting ground without risk.
~Sabotage
<<Okay, so you've abandoned compromise proposals. Got it.
I'm not trying to hide that I would rather they just change it back to how it was, but instead offered what I think is a fair compromise. Have a "deep end" of the sanctum and then the "shallow end". You don't like it cause there's still some danger to the zone. Each zone has its own challenges and this change takes away all the challenge. This place is now easier than Nelemar, which is the easiest place to hunt at cap.
~Sabotage
I'm not trying to hide that I would rather they just change it back to how it was, but instead offered what I think is a fair compromise. Have a "deep end" of the sanctum and then the "shallow end". You don't like it cause there's still some danger to the zone. Each zone has its own challenges and this change takes away all the challenge. This place is now easier than Nelemar, which is the easiest place to hunt at cap.
~Sabotage
I think it's probably too early to say that this has caused major changes to the Sanctum's difficulty under most circumstances.
There was an extreme situation regularly occurring where the Sanctum was flooded with creatures. This was due to a few factors--large player groups and Provoke combining with abnormally high spawn rates and spawn caps.
That's not to diminish any of the concerns here. We'll keep an eye on things and adjust as necessary.
Auchand
There was an extreme situation regularly occurring where the Sanctum was flooded with creatures. This was due to a few factors--large player groups and Provoke combining with abnormally high spawn rates and spawn caps.
That's not to diminish any of the concerns here. We'll keep an eye on things and adjust as necessary.
Auchand
<"Go use another hunting ground" sounds less like the spirit of compromise.>
Compromise means there were other hunting grounds where one can be a special snowflake and enjoy a soporific, riskless hunting experience. This was the only place where it was a rush, dangerous, exciting, and where I had to use my skills and tactics to the max. I just ran through there and it was sad. And took forever. I've now lost my only hunting ground because some couldn't hack it.
As a SH local, I'd have to very much disagree with the curiously vocal yet ultimately minority segment here declaiming the change. The massive swarms caused by MA armies with Provoke made this area less of a challenge and more of a completely lost opportunity. If this truly downtweaks that, you'll still be able to run your ten man bigshots and stripmine another cap/post-cap hunting area inbetween Reims, it's just that the rest of us will be able to enjoy it again.
-james, bristenn's player
-james, bristenn's player
| You think to yourself, "FFF-" |
| A giant white bunny hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you! |
| You evade the bolt by a hair! |
If you're down-tuning the swarms, you need to tweak the periapt. Previously, the periapt drained so many charges upon entry that you needed to hunt two heads worth of experience to refill the periapt for a single use. With the reduction of the swarms, it's going to take way too long to refill your periapt now, and that means the entry mechanics will be much more annoying to manage.
I'd like to see the periapt be more like the confluence soulstone. Allow it to hold a ton of charges and using the periapt doesn't drain so many at once, so you could use it a lot more frequently. This would allow bounties to more readily completed within the Sanctum. Many bounties are done fast enough that you don't recharge your periapt, then you have to go back and forth.. etc etc.
Entry mechanics are going to need review now that the swarms are gone.
I'd like to see the periapt be more like the confluence soulstone. Allow it to hold a ton of charges and using the periapt doesn't drain so many at once, so you could use it a lot more frequently. This would allow bounties to more readily completed within the Sanctum. Many bounties are done fast enough that you don't recharge your periapt, then you have to go back and forth.. etc etc.
Entry mechanics are going to need review now that the swarms are gone.
>This was due to a few factors--large player groups and Provoke combining with abnormally high spawn rates and spawn caps.
Good or bad change, I don't have a dog in that fight. But I do think it's icky to have to balance a hunting ground around MA groups. That seems a symptom of a larger problem.
~Land Pirate Maylan~
Good or bad change, I don't have a dog in that fight. But I do think it's icky to have to balance a hunting ground around MA groups. That seems a symptom of a larger problem.
~Land Pirate Maylan~
I accept that I might be in a minority (or plurality?) of players who LIKE the super-swarms that the 8+ person monk group has been creating, but I initially find this change discouraging. I'll reserve judgment on the change until I see how it's working in action. :)
But rather than a hit to the overall spawn rate, why not a ceiling on the number of monsters?
The idea of an area where swarms can occur, and are less likely to occur, is also appealing (as is anything that creates more options, rather than fewer).
There's different kinds of challenges. I liked the sanctum style of challenge that came from the swarm. The me vs 100 monsters type of fun. I don't like the oh, here's a level 110 undead that sheer fears you and you're dead challenge or the oh, here's a magic immune creature you can't do anything about challenge.
Sanctum had a good swarm fun and swarm challenge. Bring that back, don't turn it into scatter 2.0
Sanctum had a good swarm fun and swarm challenge. Bring that back, don't turn it into scatter 2.0
<<If hunters want more of a challenge for the Sanctum, we can certainly look into that. However, we can also do that without having to use swarms.>>
But it being a swarmy area was its thing, which was neat to have as the means for providing that challenege since no where else did that. I think overall reducing the spawns from 300 things is fine, it just feels like the bottom end of the creature scaling needs to be brought back up some. How it felt last night (which was a busy time of night with the provoke crew that got the area nerfed there) was fine, not as fun as it used to be but fine.
With a more normal spread of people this afternoon, it is definitely not fine.
But it being a swarmy area was its thing, which was neat to have as the means for providing that challenege since no where else did that. I think overall reducing the spawns from 300 things is fine, it just feels like the bottom end of the creature scaling needs to be brought back up some. How it felt last night (which was a busy time of night with the provoke crew that got the area nerfed there) was fine, not as fun as it used to be but fine.
With a more normal spread of people this afternoon, it is definitely not fine.
We've been monitoring the Sanctum of Scales for a long time now. Ultimately, we adjusted the spawn rates for the following reasons:
1) its spawn rates were unintentionally set up improperly compared to other hunting areas, we initially left them in place until it was clearly causing the other issues below:
2) it caused performance issues.
3) it became completely unhuntable by many professions who don't have as reliable AoE attacks.
4) it trivialized the hunting experience for those who do have reliable AoE attacks by taking only seconds to hunt.
5) it led to orders of magnitude more silver gain than other hunting areas for specifically those characters with strong AoE.
6) it was considered the hardest hunting area when it was not designed to be that way. The Scatter is meant to be our current capstone hunting area as is reflected by the creature levels.
GameMaster Estild
1) its spawn rates were unintentionally set up improperly compared to other hunting areas, we initially left them in place until it was clearly causing the other issues below:
2) it caused performance issues.
3) it became completely unhuntable by many professions who don't have as reliable AoE attacks.
4) it trivialized the hunting experience for those who do have reliable AoE attacks by taking only seconds to hunt.
5) it led to orders of magnitude more silver gain than other hunting areas for specifically those characters with strong AoE.
6) it was considered the hardest hunting area when it was not designed to be that way. The Scatter is meant to be our current capstone hunting area as is reflected by the creature levels.
GameMaster Estild
Estild,
So long as you have a mind to adjust capped hunting difficulty, would you consider making some part of otf harder? North is the obvious candidate. It should have accomplished that on paper with champions, but they are really only a shadow of their original invasion incarnations. North has the least loot and most hunting pressure and that is a sign to me that it is under powered. I don't think all otf needs to be harder, freshly capped people need to hunt too, but I for one would love something more challenging out east.
I vote this is done by giving champions spell cleave and 117, but would settle for any dirty tricks you find appropriate.
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.
So long as you have a mind to adjust capped hunting difficulty, would you consider making some part of otf harder? North is the obvious candidate. It should have accomplished that on paper with champions, but they are really only a shadow of their original invasion incarnations. North has the least loot and most hunting pressure and that is a sign to me that it is under powered. I don't think all otf needs to be harder, freshly capped people need to hunt too, but I for one would love something more challenging out east.
I vote this is done by giving champions spell cleave and 117, but would settle for any dirty tricks you find appropriate.
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.
<As a SH local, I'd have to very much disagree with the curiously vocal yet ultimately minority segment here declaiming the change. The massive swarms caused by MA armies with Provoke made this area less of a challenge and more of a completely lost opportunity. If this truly downtweaks that, you'll still be able to run your ten man bigshots and stripmine another cap/post-cap hunting area inbetween Reims, it's just that the rest of us will be able to enjoy it again.
-james, bristenn's player>
My main is a 100% solo hunter SH local, resident and citizen. I was doing just fine and now that experience is gone. Before, others had the ability to experience it or go somewhere else. Now, no one can. Not such a mystifying concept as to why I am vocal about it.
-james, bristenn's player>
My main is a 100% solo hunter SH local, resident and citizen. I was doing just fine and now that experience is gone. Before, others had the ability to experience it or go somewhere else. Now, no one can. Not such a mystifying concept as to why I am vocal about it.
<There's different kinds of challenges. I liked the sanctum style of challenge that came from the swarm. The me vs 100 monsters type of fun. I don't like the oh, here's a level 110 undead that sheer fears you and you're dead challenge or the oh, here's a magic immune creature you can't do anything about challenge.
Sanctum had a good swarm fun and swarm challenge. Bring that back, don't turn it into scatter 2.0 >
100% concur with this. The fighting masses of monsters appeals to me both on a mechanical, skill, and narrative basis (think LoTR or Avenvgers). Difficulty from spell strips, environmental effects, and random creature immunity, is cheap and unappealing.
Sanctum had a good swarm fun and swarm challenge. Bring that back, don't turn it into scatter 2.0 >
100% concur with this. The fighting masses of monsters appeals to me both on a mechanical, skill, and narrative basis (think LoTR or Avenvgers). Difficulty from spell strips, environmental effects, and random creature immunity, is cheap and unappealing.
3) it became completely unhuntable by many professions who don't have as reliable AoE attacks.
This, a thousand times this. I understand that for some professions, if hunting solo, you would have an advantage over other professions in regards to managing swarms. This area has been off limits to me because I do not possess a skill of swarm management. For years we asked for a capped hunting ground that wouldn't take us far away from our preferred area and we finally got it. I was excited until I realized that I was not able to manage it solo...heck, even had trouble with someone else. If the swarms were caused by MA hunters and provoke being used, it doesn't give a fair advantage to a solo hunter.
I am thrilled to be able to use the area as I like getting boxes and treasure we don't get with bandits. Bandits have become so predictable too.
Speaking softly to Raelee, Kilthal says, "Many things would be different if people listened to ye."
Speaking to Kilthal, Raelee says, "Believe me. I am painfully aware of that."
You could hunt the third floor and usually the second floor completely fine as any profession. The third floor especially basically never swarmed, the second especially on the south end was generally clear as well.
The area was certainly, dramatically, better if you have a strong aoe but if all you wanted was a place you could hunt by the landing literally anyone could do the old third / second floor completely fine 95% of the time. I've hunted the sanctum primarily for years and only had the third floor in a state i'd say wasn't doable for anyone a handful of times.
It's actually worse now, really. You could always do the third regardless of who else was around, now spawn rates are seemingly uniform across the entirety of the area so the third is spawning way more things when the place is packed / provoked and it's not nearly as safe for a solo hunter as it was before the change. The top floor was also generally speaking exclusively shapers and sents, now it's everything so there's more lurks clogging it up than i've ever seen previously.
So if your goal was "i want to hunt the place safely solo", could have actually tried or asked people who knew the area already and discovered you could.
You actually have it worse now probably, more often than not.
The area was certainly, dramatically, better if you have a strong aoe but if all you wanted was a place you could hunt by the landing literally anyone could do the old third / second floor completely fine 95% of the time. I've hunted the sanctum primarily for years and only had the third floor in a state i'd say wasn't doable for anyone a handful of times.
It's actually worse now, really. You could always do the third regardless of who else was around, now spawn rates are seemingly uniform across the entirety of the area so the third is spawning way more things when the place is packed / provoked and it's not nearly as safe for a solo hunter as it was before the change. The top floor was also generally speaking exclusively shapers and sents, now it's everything so there's more lurks clogging it up than i've ever seen previously.
So if your goal was "i want to hunt the place safely solo", could have actually tried or asked people who knew the area already and discovered you could.
You actually have it worse now probably, more often than not.
I respect all the feedback thus far I just want to add a few more thoughts of my own:
As someone who has hunted here since it opened as both a solo hunter and a group hunter the Sanctum allows those of us who are more skilled and were bored with the ''lesser'' and yes I say lesser capped hunting grounds,to experience the many creature maneuvers combined with the swarms made it quite exciting because you actually have to PAY ATTENTION at all times and PLAY your character while hunting. Not just wander around aimlessly casting at something with no effort involved.
I personally don't feel that an entire hunting area should be toned down due to the actions of ONE large group. Who I will say just as an aside in my experience with them is a very courteous individual to others. If they were going to be around, they would inform others when going in and out, they would help raise, heal or rescue anyone that may have of unfortunately fell to their demise while they were hunting. There was and is a channel set up for communication that anyone can join via LNet called ''SoS''.
As I mentioned before I am quite disappointed in this change as it makes my play time much less enjoyable as a hunter now, but I do feel that a compromise would be fair by potentially making part of the area quieter for those that feel they aren't skilled or comfortable enough to hunt the way it was before and the other portion for those of us that want the added wow factor, excitement and challenge the swarms brought.
Siierra O'Leigha
Faith Healer
Devout Follower of Imaera
As someone who has hunted here since it opened as both a solo hunter and a group hunter the Sanctum allows those of us who are more skilled and were bored with the ''lesser'' and yes I say lesser capped hunting grounds,to experience the many creature maneuvers combined with the swarms made it quite exciting because you actually have to PAY ATTENTION at all times and PLAY your character while hunting. Not just wander around aimlessly casting at something with no effort involved.
I personally don't feel that an entire hunting area should be toned down due to the actions of ONE large group. Who I will say just as an aside in my experience with them is a very courteous individual to others. If they were going to be around, they would inform others when going in and out, they would help raise, heal or rescue anyone that may have of unfortunately fell to their demise while they were hunting. There was and is a channel set up for communication that anyone can join via LNet called ''SoS''.
As I mentioned before I am quite disappointed in this change as it makes my play time much less enjoyable as a hunter now, but I do feel that a compromise would be fair by potentially making part of the area quieter for those that feel they aren't skilled or comfortable enough to hunt the way it was before and the other portion for those of us that want the added wow factor, excitement and challenge the swarms brought.
Siierra O'Leigha
Faith Healer
Devout Follower of Imaera
I more or less echo Siierra's general sentiment. I only recently began to regularly hunt SoS and truly enjoyed the need to be 100% on your game or you risked getting demolished. The challenge of a huge swarm was the most fun I'd had in GS in a long time. Capping in GS is actually kind of a bummer to me at this point, because the areas are either babytown frolics easy (OTF, Nelemar, Sanctum after this change) logistically obnoxious but still pretty fun to hunt (Scatter), or obviously not designed to be hunted by all professions which is fine (this is the Confluence, to me). I'm so bored of Nelemar that I've started rolling more alts just to not play my capped characters as much. I wish I'd discovered SoS earlier and gotten more fun out of it.
I'm sure it'll still be fun. The idea of an area designated to have heavier swarms is a fair compromise as well.
However this change is literally brand new and what I'm seeing here is just the classic knee jerk that always happens when something changes. Give it a shot, procure measurable evidence of your Licel brand Fun per Hour mileage going down, then bring up your concerns. There's always room to compromise, especially now- whereas previously, there was none due to the issues thr GMs have addressed.
As for KWARTON, I do not recognize your account name. Who?
-james, bristenn's player
However this change is literally brand new and what I'm seeing here is just the classic knee jerk that always happens when something changes. Give it a shot, procure measurable evidence of your Licel brand Fun per Hour mileage going down, then bring up your concerns. There's always room to compromise, especially now- whereas previously, there was none due to the issues thr GMs have addressed.
As for KWARTON, I do not recognize your account name. Who?
-james, bristenn's player
| You think to yourself, "FFF-" |
| A giant white bunny hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you! |
| You evade the bolt by a hair! |
<<For years we asked for a capped hunting ground that wouldn't take us far away from our preferred area and we finally got it. I was excited until I realized that I was not able to manage it solo...heck, even had trouble with someone else.
Confluence, warcamps, the Rift... There were always options, just this is closer and easier now for you.
~Sabotage
Confluence, warcamps, the Rift... There were always options, just this is closer and easier now for you.
~Sabotage
<because you actually have to PAY ATTENTION at all times and PLAY your character while hunting. Not just wander around aimlessly casting at something with no effort involved.
This is exactly what I am looking forward to. I'm not a caster and I don't have AoE so I do have to pay attention, and carefully. Now instead of having to be careful to avoid someone else's swarms, I can enjoy actually playing. I've been killed in the Sanctum more by other peoples spells and swarms without even getting a few rooms than I can count. I stopped hunting there completely because it was just walking into death and that is no fun for me. I like the challenge, as many do. It's about finding that balance for everyone and maybe there will be a compromise that will work but for now, I'm happy to be given the option to enjoy the game more.
And I agree with Bristenn's player, this seems like a very knee jerk reaction to something that hasn't even been played out yet.
Speaking softly to Raelee, Kilthal says, "Many things would be different if people listened to ye."
Speaking to Kilthal, Raelee says, "Believe me. I am painfully aware of that."
This is exactly what I am looking forward to. I'm not a caster and I don't have AoE so I do have to pay attention, and carefully. Now instead of having to be careful to avoid someone else's swarms, I can enjoy actually playing. I've been killed in the Sanctum more by other peoples spells and swarms without even getting a few rooms than I can count. I stopped hunting there completely because it was just walking into death and that is no fun for me. I like the challenge, as many do. It's about finding that balance for everyone and maybe there will be a compromise that will work but for now, I'm happy to be given the option to enjoy the game more.
And I agree with Bristenn's player, this seems like a very knee jerk reaction to something that hasn't even been played out yet.
Speaking softly to Raelee, Kilthal says, "Many things would be different if people listened to ye."
Speaking to Kilthal, Raelee says, "Believe me. I am painfully aware of that."
<<This is exactly what I am looking forward to. I'm not a caster and I don't have AoE so I do have to pay attention, and carefully. Now instead of having to be careful to avoid someone else's swarms, I can enjoy actually playing. I've been killed in the Sanctum more by other peoples spells and swarms without even getting a few rooms than I can count. I stopped hunting there completely because it was just walking into death and that is no fun for me. I like the challenge, as many do. It's about finding that balance for everyone and maybe there will be a compromise that will work but for now, I'm happy to be given the option to enjoy the game more.>>
You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who has hunted the sanctum more than me (there are people, but not a lot).
I've died exactly once to other people's spells. Been hit with more ewaves but on the order of more like 10 than 100.
Everyone complaining here sounds like they never really hunted the area more than once.
You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who has hunted the sanctum more than me (there are people, but not a lot).
I've died exactly once to other people's spells. Been hit with more ewaves but on the order of more like 10 than 100.
Everyone complaining here sounds like they never really hunted the area more than once.
