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Hi everybody!
In an effort to make critters with 917 a little more palatable to hunt, we've reduced the critical damage of the first cycle of 917 when cast against players. The hope is that this should make the spell a little easier to work with.
We'll be watching how this affects 917 when cast against players closely, and may continue to work with the spell if deemed necessary.
Thanks, and let me know what you think! (If you have the guts to go check it out)
~ Konacon
Gave elder tree spirits a shot. I was hunting with a sorc so we kept 703 up for the most part, but eventually the elder tree spirit got a 917 cast off on me. Open roll of course. Severed my leg. 12 round stun. Then died with next cycle.
Hard pass still.
Hard pass still.
| As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear. |
| Whick's body sways back and forth for a bit. |
| * Whick drops dead at your feet! |
I'd also like that <whatever it was> that I posted about, where a three-point failure (end result == 103) gave me a completely stupid-duration stun (I think it was like 8 or 10 or 12 rounds or something).
Those results should NOT be affected by the armor worn, as appears to be the case, because armor is already addressed in the CvA part of the equation. (And if you're going for verisimilitude, it hurts a LOT less to take a "you fall down" crit wearing robes than it does plate armor. Sure, the ground doesn't necessarily hurt all that much... but the armor does. :)
Those results should NOT be affected by the armor worn, as appears to be the case, because armor is already addressed in the CvA part of the equation. (And if you're going for verisimilitude, it hurts a LOT less to take a "you fall down" crit wearing robes than it does plate armor. Sure, the ground doesn't necessarily hurt all that much... but the armor does. :)
Some feedback based on initial testing. TLDR: 917 is still deadly!
An excerpt from a recent arch wight hunting expedition:
An arch wight gestures at you!
The ground beneath your feet suddenly frosts and rumbles violently!
Icy stalagmites burst from the ground beneath you!
[SMR result: 128 (Open d100: 44)]
... 1 point of damage!
Minor puncture to the left leg.
>ne
Icy stalagmites burst from the ground beneath you!
[SMR result: 157 (Open d100: 72)]
... 13 points of damage!
Strike pierces calf!
You are knocked to the ground!
You are stunned for 3 rounds!
!SP>
You are still stunned.
!SP>
The earth cracks beneath you, releasing a column of frigid air!
[SMR result: 80 (Open d100: -71, Bonus: 69)]
You dodge out of the way!
!SP>
An arch wight chants an evil incantation.
!SP>
A dark shambler swings a blackened twohanded sword at you!
AS: +145 vs DS: +195 with AvD: +42 + d100 roll: +52 = +44
A clean miss.
!SP>symbol of transcendence
With difficulty, you manage to will yourself into the space between the corporeal and ethereal realms.
!SP>
[ Symbol of Transcendence: +0:00:30, 0:00:30 remaining. ]
[sexual-favors: - 148 = 20,637 (+/- 104)]
The earth cracks beneath you, releasing a column of frigid air!
[SMR result: 163 (Open d100: 11, Bonus: 69)]
... 13 points of damage!
Hard blow to the left hand sends fingers flying.
Sure is handy to have them reform.
!SP>
Icy stalagmites burst from the ground beneath you!
[SMR result: 165 (Open d100: 11, Bonus: 70)]
... 9 points of damage!
A strong blow bursts the right calf open in a spray of vapor.
New muscle erupts from the middle of the wound, consuming the injured tissue.
!SP>
Icy stalagmites burst from the ground beneath you!
[SMR result: 289 (Open d100: 134, Bonus: 71)]
... 27 points of damage!
Painful attack flays the leg from thigh to calf.
New skin lies, snakelike, beneath the old.
The ground beneath you suddenly calms.
!SP>
An arch wight gestures at you!
CS: +120 - TD: +107 + CvA: +12 + d100: +20 - +15 == +30
Warded off!
!SP>
An arch wight swings a blackened scimitar at you!
You stumble dazedly, somehow managing to evade the attack!
!SP>
A dark shambler swings a blackened twohanded sword at you!
AS: +145 vs DS: +171 with AvD: +42 + d100 roll: +40 = +56
A clean miss.
!SP>stance defensive
> group open
> stand
You are now in a defensive stance.
!P>
Your group status is now open.
!P>
You stand back up.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
!R>
!>ne
You trudge off, moving northeast.
Notes: I was waiting for the arch wight to cast and was prepared to move immediately northeast, yet the second cycle came so fast, no time to react (I don't script hunt, where's the fun in that?). So the first crit cycle was indeed lessened (by a lot). But the second cycle was just as deadly as before (stuns you, prones you, allows all following cycles to chew you up) and came very quickly (2 seconds is so fast). I thank symbol of transcendence for allowing me to survive this encounter. The earthen fury episode in prior days, no survival at all.
This is from a 18th trained dwarf cleric, fully 1x Physical Fitness, 2x Perception (because ranged), wearing 215 and 313 and 6x HCP double leather armor. Oh and had ranger mobility as well. So least amount of builtin maneuver defense from race and giving up 2 trainings to the arch wight, but still deadly.
Not sure what to suggest for this spell. Don't want to nerf player use. Perhaps a bit more time between cycles? 3 seconds between even. Would still be deadly to critters.
An excerpt from a recent arch wight hunting expedition:
An arch wight gestures at you!
The ground beneath your feet suddenly frosts and rumbles violently!
Icy stalagmites burst from the ground beneath you!
[SMR result: 128 (Open d100: 44)]
... 1 point of damage!
Minor puncture to the left leg.
>ne
Icy stalagmites burst from the ground beneath you!
[SMR result: 157 (Open d100: 72)]
... 13 points of damage!
Strike pierces calf!
You are knocked to the ground!
You are stunned for 3 rounds!
!SP>
You are still stunned.
!SP>
The earth cracks beneath you, releasing a column of frigid air!
[SMR result: 80 (Open d100: -71, Bonus: 69)]
You dodge out of the way!
!SP>
An arch wight chants an evil incantation.
!SP>
A dark shambler swings a blackened twohanded sword at you!
AS: +145 vs DS: +195 with AvD: +42 + d100 roll: +52 = +44
A clean miss.
!SP>symbol of transcendence
With difficulty, you manage to will yourself into the space between the corporeal and ethereal realms.
!SP>
[ Symbol of Transcendence: +0:00:30, 0:00:30 remaining. ]
[sexual-favors: - 148 = 20,637 (+/- 104)]
The earth cracks beneath you, releasing a column of frigid air!
[SMR result: 163 (Open d100: 11, Bonus: 69)]
... 13 points of damage!
Hard blow to the left hand sends fingers flying.
Sure is handy to have them reform.
!SP>
Icy stalagmites burst from the ground beneath you!
[SMR result: 165 (Open d100: 11, Bonus: 70)]
... 9 points of damage!
A strong blow bursts the right calf open in a spray of vapor.
New muscle erupts from the middle of the wound, consuming the injured tissue.
!SP>
Icy stalagmites burst from the ground beneath you!
[SMR result: 289 (Open d100: 134, Bonus: 71)]
... 27 points of damage!
Painful attack flays the leg from thigh to calf.
New skin lies, snakelike, beneath the old.
The ground beneath you suddenly calms.
!SP>
An arch wight gestures at you!
CS: +120 - TD: +107 + CvA: +12 + d100: +20 - +15 == +30
Warded off!
!SP>
An arch wight swings a blackened scimitar at you!
You stumble dazedly, somehow managing to evade the attack!
!SP>
A dark shambler swings a blackened twohanded sword at you!
AS: +145 vs DS: +171 with AvD: +42 + d100 roll: +40 = +56
A clean miss.
!SP>stance defensive
> group open
> stand
You are now in a defensive stance.
!P>
Your group status is now open.
!P>
You stand back up.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
!R>
!>ne
You trudge off, moving northeast.
Notes: I was waiting for the arch wight to cast and was prepared to move immediately northeast, yet the second cycle came so fast, no time to react (I don't script hunt, where's the fun in that?). So the first crit cycle was indeed lessened (by a lot). But the second cycle was just as deadly as before (stuns you, prones you, allows all following cycles to chew you up) and came very quickly (2 seconds is so fast). I thank symbol of transcendence for allowing me to survive this encounter. The earthen fury episode in prior days, no survival at all.
This is from a 18th trained dwarf cleric, fully 1x Physical Fitness, 2x Perception (because ranged), wearing 215 and 313 and 6x HCP double leather armor. Oh and had ranger mobility as well. So least amount of builtin maneuver defense from race and giving up 2 trainings to the arch wight, but still deadly.
Not sure what to suggest for this spell. Don't want to nerf player use. Perhaps a bit more time between cycles? 3 seconds between even. Would still be deadly to critters.
In the interest of keeping my wizard friends happy, I will join the vast majority of hunters and just avoid creatures that cast 917.
This time, died due to blood loss, with symbol of transcendence running to reduce further crits:
An arch wight gestures at you!
The ground beneath your feet suddenly frosts and rumbles violently!
Icy stalagmites burst from the ground beneath you!
[SMR result: 181 (Open d100: 82)]
... 16 points of damage!
Well placed shot pierces knee, that hurt!
You are knocked to the ground!
You are stunned for 5 rounds!
!SP>
You are still stunned.
!SP>
You are still stunned.
!SP>
You are still stunned.
!SP>
You are still stunned.
!SP>stance defensive
You are still stunned.
!SP>
The earth cracks beneath you, releasing a column of frigid air!
[SMR result: 178 (Open d100: 10, Bonus: 69)]
... 28 points of damage!
Icy blast takes right arm off at the shoulder!
!SP>stance defensive
[script done]
You are still stunned.
!SP>symbol of transcendence
With difficulty, you manage to will yourself into the space between the corporeal and ethereal realms.
!SP>
[sexual-favors: - 148 = 20,564 (+/- 140)]
[ Symbol of Transcendence: +0:00:30, 0:00:30 remaining. ]
The earth cracks beneath you, releasing a column of frigid air!
[SMR result: 215 (Open d100: 39, Bonus: 77)]
... 34 points of damage!
Massive blow obliterates the right knee.
You falter as a sickly light flows freely down your leg.
!SP>
An arch wight swings a blackened scimitar at you!
AS: +156 vs DS: +197 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +51 = +38
A clean miss.
!SP>
Icy stalagmites burst from the ground beneath you!
[SMR result: 209 (Open d100: 30, Bonus: 81)]
... 28 points of damage!
Body swirls violently from a strong hit to the back.
Neat effect!
!SP>
The earth cracks beneath you, releasing a column of frigid air!
[SMR result: 253 (Open d100: 70, Bonus: 84)]
... 50 points of damage!
Mighty blow rips through your chest, causing you to pause as you reform.
!SP>
The earth cracks beneath you, releasing a column of frigid air!
[SMR result: 247 (Open d100: 58, Bonus: 90)]
... 20 points of damage!
Hard strike shatters arm into vapor.
The arm reforms before your eyes!
You suddenly feel less protected.
The deep blue glow leaves you.
The layer of protection fades away.
The brilliant aura fades away from you.
You feel the protection of your deity's influence fade.
A white glow rushes away from you.
You feel yourself being pulled back fully into the corporeal realm.
The ground beneath you suddenly calms.
You feel less confident.
The dim aura fades from around you.
Your sense of faith and conviction wanes.
The powerful look leaves you.
A faint silvery glow fades from around you.
The light blue glow leaves you.
It seems you have died, my friend. Although you cannot do anything, you are keenly aware of what is going on around you...
You mentally give a sigh of relief as you remember that the Goddess Lorminstra owes you a favor.
...departing in 16 mins...
DEAD>
This time, died due to blood loss, with symbol of transcendence running to reduce further crits:
An arch wight gestures at you!
The ground beneath your feet suddenly frosts and rumbles violently!
Icy stalagmites burst from the ground beneath you!
[SMR result: 181 (Open d100: 82)]
... 16 points of damage!
Well placed shot pierces knee, that hurt!
You are knocked to the ground!
You are stunned for 5 rounds!
!SP>
You are still stunned.
!SP>
You are still stunned.
!SP>
You are still stunned.
!SP>
You are still stunned.
!SP>stance defensive
You are still stunned.
!SP>
The earth cracks beneath you, releasing a column of frigid air!
[SMR result: 178 (Open d100: 10, Bonus: 69)]
... 28 points of damage!
Icy blast takes right arm off at the shoulder!
!SP>stance defensive
[script done]
You are still stunned.
!SP>symbol of transcendence
With difficulty, you manage to will yourself into the space between the corporeal and ethereal realms.
!SP>
[sexual-favors: - 148 = 20,564 (+/- 140)]
[ Symbol of Transcendence: +0:00:30, 0:00:30 remaining. ]
The earth cracks beneath you, releasing a column of frigid air!
[SMR result: 215 (Open d100: 39, Bonus: 77)]
... 34 points of damage!
Massive blow obliterates the right knee.
You falter as a sickly light flows freely down your leg.
!SP>
An arch wight swings a blackened scimitar at you!
AS: +156 vs DS: +197 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +51 = +38
A clean miss.
!SP>
Icy stalagmites burst from the ground beneath you!
[SMR result: 209 (Open d100: 30, Bonus: 81)]
... 28 points of damage!
Body swirls violently from a strong hit to the back.
Neat effect!
!SP>
The earth cracks beneath you, releasing a column of frigid air!
[SMR result: 253 (Open d100: 70, Bonus: 84)]
... 50 points of damage!
Mighty blow rips through your chest, causing you to pause as you reform.
!SP>
The earth cracks beneath you, releasing a column of frigid air!
[SMR result: 247 (Open d100: 58, Bonus: 90)]
... 20 points of damage!
Hard strike shatters arm into vapor.
The arm reforms before your eyes!
You suddenly feel less protected.
The deep blue glow leaves you.
The layer of protection fades away.
The brilliant aura fades away from you.
You feel the protection of your deity's influence fade.
A white glow rushes away from you.
You feel yourself being pulled back fully into the corporeal realm.
The ground beneath you suddenly calms.
You feel less confident.
The dim aura fades from around you.
Your sense of faith and conviction wanes.
The powerful look leaves you.
A faint silvery glow fades from around you.
The light blue glow leaves you.
It seems you have died, my friend. Although you cannot do anything, you are keenly aware of what is going on around you...
You mentally give a sigh of relief as you remember that the Goddess Lorminstra owes you a favor.
...departing in 16 mins...
DEAD>
>Notes: I was waiting for the arch wight to cast and was prepared to move immediately northeast, yet the second cycle came so fast, no time to react (I don't script hunt, where's the fun in that?). So the first crit cycle was indeed lessened (by a lot). But the second cycle was just as deadly as before (stuns you, prones you, allows all following cycles to chew you up) and came very quickly (2 seconds is so fast).
+1.
2s is too fast to avoid the second round. I have to be 3s faster than a critter to stance dance it, 2s faster and that sort of thing happens to me all the time.
+1.
2s is too fast to avoid the second round. I have to be 3s faster than a critter to stance dance it, 2s faster and that sort of thing happens to me all the time.
If the critter is 2 trains over you and you're a pre-cap cleric, you should probably be hit and stunned by initial round. The spell is then designed to be more effective once you are less capable of avoiding it, so it seems to work just fine to me after the nerf. Asking for it to be toned down more when you are over-hunting doesn't seem right. Personally, I don't want this spell nerfed at all, AND IF ANYTHING, make sure it's prone to resistance. Either fire or cold or make it nature (since it's "earthen fury" yet fire or cold based in part).
- Arshwikk
Nope.
But I frequently have two characters in the same room and see the actions done (by one) on the screen of the other perceptibly sooner than they appear on the screen of the one doing the action.
Also, since the Wizard only displays RT once it has received the information to do so, there are many times when I'm able to start the next action--either physical attack after hard-RT, or prep/cast after soft--at "more than one but less than three" seconds still on my countdown.
These both happen regularly & reliably, if perhaps not necessarily to the extent of "every hunt, every day." And completely disjoint from exceptional lag, like HoA on Reim.
But I frequently have two characters in the same room and see the actions done (by one) on the screen of the other perceptibly sooner than they appear on the screen of the one doing the action.
Also, since the Wizard only displays RT once it has received the information to do so, there are many times when I'm able to start the next action--either physical attack after hard-RT, or prep/cast after soft--at "more than one but less than three" seconds still on my countdown.
These both happen regularly & reliably, if perhaps not necessarily to the extent of "every hunt, every day." And completely disjoint from exceptional lag, like HoA on Reim.
SMRv2 seems a LOT harder to defend than CML, which also plays into it. I have about a 20% chance to be hit by kiramon defenders CML hamstring, and about a 50% chance to be hit by workers SMRv2 stun, despite the workers being 6 levels lower and having no CM training but decent SMRv2 training. 50:50 is really a pretty high chance to get hit by something you can't learn from and where you are decently trained in the defense skills.
> SMRv2 seems a LOT harder to defend than CML, which also plays into it. I have about a 20% chance to be hit by kiramon defenders CML hamstring, and about a 50% chance to be hit by workers SMRv2 stun, despite the workers being 6 levels lower and having no CM training but decent SMRv2 training. 50:50 is really a pretty high chance to get hit by something you can't learn from and where you are decently trained in the defense skills.
I'd be interested to see numbers for this. What stance are you in when you're saying 50% chance to get hit by something 6 levels lower than you? Can you tell me what your training (At least in SMRv2 skills) is? I can take a look at the kiramon workers stun if you post some logs. This might be intended but it's worth checking up on.
~ Konacon
I'd be interested to see numbers for this. What stance are you in when you're saying 50% chance to get hit by something 6 levels lower than you? Can you tell me what your training (At least in SMRv2 skills) is? I can take a look at the kiramon workers stun if you post some logs. This might be intended but it's worth checking up on.
~ Konacon
| I'd be interested to see numbers for this. What stance are you in when you're saying 50% chance to get hit by something 6 levels lower than you? Can you tell me what your training (At least in SMRv2 skills) is? I can take a look at the kiramon workers stun if you post some logs. This might be intended but it's worth checking up on. |
| ~ Konacon |
Hey! No cheating. You can poke your nose in and look at the code.
Try figuring out SMRv2 defense against 917 on your own......it's a chore! I've sunk a lot of hours into it and I'm still hitting walls that I'm trying to break down.
What I know that plays a factor:
I know how encumbrance impacts things
I have a very good understanding how armor impacts things
I have an understanding how CM/Perception/Dodge/PF ranks add to things
I have a very good unerstanding how wizard spell ranks play into things
I don't know how caster level vs target plays out
I know some info about stance, but not how it all works into it all
I realize race impacts results, but no concrete data to back things up
I seem to have found a limit on the allowed penalty to your character's SMRv2 defenese, but I don't know how everything is all calculated because it seems to vary for a couple of reasons that I may or may not be on the right track to figure out.
Aside from AGI and DEX being beneficial to your SMRv2 defense, I don't know how they impact it.
I can honestly say, with the 20+ hours I've put into learning this stuff, I probably have about 15% of it all figured out.
So, why not just save me the headache and show me the equation to SMRv2 defense? You'll feel better at the end of the day for doing such a thing.
>I'd be interested to see numbers for this. What stance are you in when you're saying 50% chance to get hit by something 6 levels lower than you?
Guarded or defensive, and its now 11 level levels lower than me, not 6. (Defenders are now 5 levels lower than me with the 10-20% chance on CML hamstring and workers are 6 levels lower than defenders, with occasional ones (keen? canny?) having an SMRv2 stun ability that has a much higher chance to hit me).
Now level 51 aeletoi sorc, been hunting Teras kiramon since about level 40, though the workers only got their funny stuff well after I started there. Teras defenders are level 46, workers 40 (either the wiki is wrong on their level or levels vary between hunting grounds, I haven't checked the other places kiramon are found)
1x PF, 1x perception, no CM. Standard sorc spells (nothing beyond mana spellup and society abilities)
I noticed the same thing on waerns too, getting hit very easily by SMRv2 when I couldn't learn from them, but there wasn't anything else to calibrate that against.
Guarded or defensive, and its now 11 level levels lower than me, not 6. (Defenders are now 5 levels lower than me with the 10-20% chance on CML hamstring and workers are 6 levels lower than defenders, with occasional ones (keen? canny?) having an SMRv2 stun ability that has a much higher chance to hit me).
Now level 51 aeletoi sorc, been hunting Teras kiramon since about level 40, though the workers only got their funny stuff well after I started there. Teras defenders are level 46, workers 40 (either the wiki is wrong on their level or levels vary between hunting grounds, I haven't checked the other places kiramon are found)
1x PF, 1x perception, no CM. Standard sorc spells (nothing beyond mana spellup and society abilities)
I noticed the same thing on waerns too, getting hit very easily by SMRv2 when I couldn't learn from them, but there wasn't anything else to calibrate that against.
> So, why not just save me the headache and show me the equation to SMRv2 defense? You'll feel better at the end of the day for doing such a thing.
Mere mortals were not meant to have such information!
I would actually love to, but at this time it's still something we've decided to keep to ourselves. I do think it's really cool that you're trying to figure it all out, and I love reading the posts about what you've found!
~ Konacon
Mere mortals were not meant to have such information!
I would actually love to, but at this time it's still something we've decided to keep to ourselves. I do think it's really cool that you're trying to figure it all out, and I love reading the posts about what you've found!
~ Konacon
"I've been saying that "2s at server-speed" is too fast for humans at the other end of an (inherently laggy) internet connection since the bloody thing came out." -- Me, message #166
.
And I repeat (without the profanity that got my last "repeat" pulled):
GMs!
TWO SECOND CYCLES IS TOO FAST FOR DAMAGE OUTPUT TO PLAYERS!
Fix the (^%^&%&ing thing already, will you?!?!?
.
And I repeat (without the profanity that got my last "repeat" pulled):
GMs!
TWO SECOND CYCLES IS TOO FAST FOR DAMAGE OUTPUT TO PLAYERS!
Fix the (^%^&%&ing thing already, will you?!?!?
Its not only 917, other effects have been created or moved to 2s cycles. 2s cycles are the new standard. The only reason you aren't being zapped by 309 in 2s cycles is that the old 309 wasn't an attack spell so no critters got it by default.
Boil should have been moved to a critter circle and lower level critters left with it. 917 is unfair at level 20, but not unreasonably nasty at level 60. 2s cycles was always a silly argument about why this wasn't done. 2s cycles advantage bots over human players and the argument that you should script in an unresponsive manner so that you can deal with a new challenge in the game should never have been used as an excuse for not adjusting which critters had 917.
Boil should have been moved to a critter circle and lower level critters left with it. 917 is unfair at level 20, but not unreasonably nasty at level 60. 2s cycles was always a silly argument about why this wasn't done. 2s cycles advantage bots over human players and the argument that you should script in an unresponsive manner so that you can deal with a new challenge in the game should never have been used as an excuse for not adjusting which critters had 917.
For the Earthen Fury in question, which sparked my (most recent!) outrage, I actually managed to survive long enough to get off TWO (2!) "shout rally" to get stood up.
Of course, the simple fact that I had to fire off two (2!) of them is because of the stupid fargin' muzzafrazzem TWO FREAKIN' SECOND CYCLE in the first place.
.
.
And, of course: still got waxed by the later cycles, so. Yeah.
.
IT'S TOO FAST!
Grow a hint!
Of course, the simple fact that I had to fire off two (2!) of them is because of the stupid fargin' muzzafrazzem TWO FREAKIN' SECOND CYCLE in the first place.
.
.
And, of course: still got waxed by the later cycles, so. Yeah.
.
IT'S TOO FAST!
Grow a hint!
