More Reward and Less Punishment for GsWiki 'Bugs' on 04/30/2021 03:13 PM CDT
Links-arrows 1
Reply Reply
Today I was chatting with another post-cap sorcerer about goals. We wound up taking a trip to the Test server and playing with some abyran'ra. This is always a load of fun, and please ask Kaldonis some time (he'll hook you up with all the demons). I was disappointed to learn that the work I did with Rolfard and documented on gswiki has been changed in game. I assume a GM read my article and decided I discovered a bug. Yet as the one to discover this "bug", I was not informing nor rewarded: https://gswiki.play.net/Lithe_black_abyran%27ra

Specifically, it seems that the abyran'ra now exhibit less kinship and therefore take a number of random actions rather than insisting to always make their first action taking control of another abyran, should it be present. Once a sorcerer has ~200 Demonology ranks (190 is not sufficient), my testing showed that the sorcerer had a very distinct advantage, and possibly approaching a 100% success outcome against the demon. Even in my testing today the difference of 190 vs 200 ranks was easily confirmed, as with 190 ranks I got badly stunned on the initial encounter, but as soon as I hit the magic number of 200 the abyran'ra was at a distinct disadvantage. I wrote this article about 5 years ago, near when the Test server became essentially statically available to players. I devised an excellent scheme to summon these demons, and so we did figure out how to beat them.

As such, with the proper training, the clever summoner can take advantage of the abyrans' kinship causing the abyran'ra to repeated induce a stun on itself.


That's no longer true. This is very discouraging to me, as it really does not make me feel it is worthwhile to document and share my ideas publicly if the end result is essentially that the mechanics are silently changed. I try to help other players and we all get punished. Can't the GMs changing the code at least have the common courtesy to change the gswiki article they got the information from?

I don't want to overreact, and this could be a coincidence (yet I doubt it). I honestly did not think this was a bug. I felt that a sorcerer with 200 ranks in demonology probably should be able to control a demon, and the fact that the threshold was just about at 200 (very close to the natural maximum) made me feel this was a very clever design choice. I finally got enough post-cap experience to be able to run a FIXSKILL a couple months ago for 201 Demonology ranks specifically for this reason. We are told we may have access to some manner of such lesser demons in the future, so being able to kill a live one "easily" (it's not easy) seems fair. That being said, I don't fundamentally object to the idea that it was changed, but how it was done.

There's another side to this. I've been ever rewarded in game with a little nice note, some pretty nominal experience, and thanks for reporting a bug. Now I know on GSWIKI it only has my account name, but I think you all can figure out who I am (or email DAID@PLAY.NET). How am I supposed to know what GMs consider a bug or not? Certainly I wasn't sneaking around with this information all cloak and dagger like -- I posted it right on gswiki!

If I were to find a proper bug and abuse it silently, I would get in really really deep trouble. Finding and reporting bugs should be rewarded with equal grandeur. Look, if my gswiki post led a GM to change the mechanics of lithe black abyran'ra, can you give Kaldonis +1 Demonology Ascension? Seems like I figured out how they work better than you guys. Some people will read this and think I'm on a power trip, but is it really a crazy idea? I think rewarding characters with Ascension related to what they've done is a pretty cool idea, and the 1k to 2k experience we get for bugfiles is kind of a relic of the past, when 1k experience meant something. It's not even enough to get another set of training points post-cap.

Sorry if I misunderstood the situation, but this is not the first time I've had to suspiciously alter one of the things I posted on gswiki...
Reply Reply
Re: More Reward and Less Punishment for GsWiki 'Bugs' on 04/30/2021 03:30 PM CDT
Links-arrows 2
Reply Reply
Here's a log clip from May 2016...

>tell md stop
Your dark coppery abyran'sa stops following and stays put with a bit of agitation.
>l
[Beacon Hall Annex, Commons Park]
Shielded by a thick evergreen hedge, this broad expanse of lush green lawn provides a welcome respite from the chaotic world just beyond the arch. Not many steps away, a large and elegantly drooping willow provides a shady resting place. Further in and across the way, an open gazebo shelters a rope hammock, several comfortable looking pillows, and a wobbly tea cart. A pebbled path meanders over to the far corner, leading to a large glass-domed sandstone building. You also see a coiling dark coppery abyran'sa, a lithe black abyran'ra, a lithe black abyran'ra, a lithe black abyran'ra that appears stunned, a lithe black abyran'ra, a lithe black abyran'ra and a lithe black abyran'ra.
Obvious paths: none
A lithe black abyran'ra tightens its coils and rears its head up, its body weaving and swaying in a sinuous, transfixing fashion.
A lithe black abyran'ra slithers around the area, its sinuous coils lashing about like a whip.
A lithe black abyran'ra coils its bone-bladed flaming dark elven spine then whips it in a tight corkcrew spiral, the lurid flames whoosing through the air!
--- Lich: idle active.
[idle]>exp
>;idle
Level: 100 Deeds: 25
Experience: 7731453 Death's Sting: None
Exp. to next TP: 1047 Recent Deaths: 1
Mental TPs: 0 Fame: 31313300
Physical TPs: 1342 Mana: 313/313 max
(396 Phy converted to Mnt)
Your mind is as clear as a bell.
[idle: Resting more]
The crown of serpents upon a lithe black abyran'ra's head writhe sluggishly as it struggles to move.
A lithe black abyran'ra freezes for a moment and stares around the area in a disquieting fashion, its pupiless eyes offering no hint of emotion.
The powerful look leaves a lithe black abyran'ra.
The flaming halfling spine in a lithe black abyran'ra's hand whips and snaps about of its own accord, the fire arcing across its surface blazing brighter for a moment.
The black abyran'ra's skin ripples with sharply contrasting hues as it tries to shake off the stun!
A lithe black abyran'ra turns to regard a coiling dark coppery abyran'sa with a fixed, studious gaze for a moment, its pupiless eyes swimming with shadowy hues.
The abyran'ra turns to stare at you, its eyes darkening to a deep obsidian hue as it lashes its talons out in a swift arcane gesture at the abyran'sa!
You feel a strange presence interfering with the link to your abyran'sa!
You manage to push the presence away, and you feel your will once again flow through the link between you and the abyran'sa.
The abyran'ra whips backwards and writhes in spasmodic pain as the ebon hue fades from its eyes.
The flaming halfling spine in a lithe black abyran'ra's hand whips and snaps about of its own accord, the fire arcing across its surface blazing brighter for a moment.
A lithe black abyran'ra flicks its long forked tongue out to taste the air.
A lithe black abyran'ra freezes for a moment and stares around the area in a disquieting fashion, its pupiless eyes offering no hint of emotion.
A lithe black abyran'ra turns to regard a coiling dark coppery abyran'sa with a fixed, studious gaze for a moment, its pupiless eyes swimming with shadowy hues.
The abyran'ra turns to stare at you, its eyes darkening to a deep obsidian hue as it lashes its talons out in a swift arcane gesture at the abyran'sa!
You feel a strange presence interfering with the link to your abyran'sa!
You manage to push the presence away, and you feel your will once again flow through the link between you and the abyran'sa.
The abyran'ra whips backwards and writhes in spasmodic pain as the ebon hue fades from its eyes.
A lithe black abyran'ra turns to regard a coiling dark coppery abyran'sa with a fixed, studious gaze for a moment, its pupiless eyes swimming with shadowy hues.
The abyran'ra turns to stare at you, its eyes darkening to a deep obsidian hue as it lashes its talons out in a swift arcane gesture at the abyran'sa!
You feel a strange presence interfering with the link to your abyran'sa!
You manage to push the presence away, and you feel your will once again flow through the link between you and the abyran'sa.
The abyran'ra whips backwards and writhes in spasmodic pain as the ebon hue fades from its eyes.
A lithe black abyran'ra turns to regard a coiling dark coppery abyran'sa with a fixed, studious gaze for a moment, its pupiless eyes swimming with shadowy hues.
The abyran'ra turns to stare at you, its eyes darkening to a deep obsidian hue as it lashes its talons out in a swift arcane gesture at the abyran'sa!
You feel a strange presence interfering with the link to your abyran'sa!
You manage to push the presence away, and you feel your will once again flow through the link between you and the abyran'sa.
The abyran'ra whips backwards and writhes in spasmodic pain as the ebon hue fades from its eyes.
Reply Reply
Re: More Reward and Less Punishment for GsWiki 'Bugs' on 04/30/2021 05:53 PM CDT
Links-arrows 3
Reply Reply


Too add

in the spirit of bugs, it would be nice, even if was a google doc, to know at least some reference to existing bugs. It kinda sucks to bug something and hear nothing back, and continue to see months later. No idea if it was deemed not a bug, not a priority, etc. Certainly for abusive things the ref can be very genericized, but at least something so we're not in the dark on bugs we've reported
Reply Reply
Re: More Reward and Less Punishment for GsWiki 'Bugs' on 05/01/2021 06:44 AM CDT
Links-arrows 4
Reply Reply
So after some discussion on Discord, of course I am not privy to special information on this particular case. However, GMs are rarely getting such things from GSWiki, but instead a BUG report from players. The first person to file a BUG report gets the reward (if any).

Wow. Just wow.
Reply Reply
Re: More Reward and Less Punishment for GsWiki 'Bugs' on 05/01/2021 08:30 AM CDT
Links-arrows 5
Reply Reply
I've gotten a few RPAs for reporting bugs over the years... it's a nice treat for doing the right thing. I think one of the times I'd ASSISTed to ensure something wasn't a bug rather then using BUG to report it, though.

I get why they'd limit it to those that report the bug through the official channel (though, doesn't seem fair that it's limited to just the first person). I've gotten to know you well enough to know that you wouldn't knowingly promote abusing a bug, but (assuming they found the bug cause of your wiki post) there's no way for whatever GM that fixed it to to know whether you innocently believed it was a feature or not.

Even if that GM did know you well enough to assume your innocence, not all of them would and rewarding people for posting bugs to the wiki would set a bad precedent. Besides the obvious that it would spread knowledge of the bug to people that WOULD try to get away with abusing it, it would also make it much harder to track bugs.


Starchitin, the OG

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Reply Reply
Re: More Reward and Less Punishment for GsWiki 'Bugs' on 05/02/2021 04:14 AM CDT
Links-arrows 6
Reply Reply
I have been told staff does not do this. I have also been told that players don't do this. I now have to take the obvious conclusion from the outset of "who benefits the most" and the answer is that the abyran'ra did it.
Reply Reply