Previous Thread
Previous
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
Please add a feature similar to what used to be (may still be) at the alchemist, where someone gets booted if they loiter too long. Every time I visit the landing pawnshop I see the same 1 or 2 people camped there. They buy items (mostly the jewelry and magic items) within seconds of it being put down by the shopkeeper. In the past I've enjoyed stopping by and buying occasional items to re-sell at the gem shop or stumbling across a rare find. However, this is no longer the case because of these campers (it's really mainly one person, who I don't think I can name here on the forums). They take away from my enjoyment of the game. It's that simple. I've pretty much stopped going and checking for items. I've played on and off for over 20 years and this is the first time I've ever had a problem with it (the last few months). Thx
I'm also in agreement, but I'm concerned the proposed solution might treat the symptoms without addressing the underlying problems. The pawnshop/gemshop contango thing should just go -- it feels like something that was done by mistake and never fixed. And I think the disparity between loresong prices and what players will pay is closer to the heart of the matter. It gives all leeches - vulture and camper alike - a reason to be there. It's those "rare finds" that can be bought up for 200k and resold for 10m, and events like Duskruin magnify this several times over.
I still stop in and check all the pawnshops from time to time, with most of my characters.
For Clunk, the shop assistants are one of the sets of characters he can visit to catch up on news.
Thuunk usually checks with them to make sure there are no items of interest on the weapons table, before he goes through his process of deciding whether to trade items to Kilron, or hold out to trade for acorns.
At various points, most of my characters have talked about the items coming through, and who we might seek out to find things.
They play the role of shop assistant well. I recall one making sure he had the right clothes to act as assistant, and asking what clothing is worn by assistants at other shops. (which by the way, prompted me to go look) I'd recommend taking the time to talk to them.
In fact, as a general rule, folks that appear to be camping are often not camping, but engaged in one of those activities that require 'staying still' for some extended amount of time. Talk to them, they are quite a few of those types out there.
Clunk
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
+100 to Mister Clunk.
--
ESP TUNE TOWNCRIER or ;tune towncrier
Web: http://gstowncrier.com/
Daily Email: gstowncrier.com/subscribe/
gstowncrier.com/where-to-find-the-towncrier/
Send in news: https://bit.ly/2ISsz2l
P.S. Help Wanted, Inquire Within
--
ESP TUNE TOWNCRIER or ;tune towncrier
Web: http://gstowncrier.com/
Daily Email: gstowncrier.com/subscribe/
gstowncrier.com/where-to-find-the-towncrier/
Send in news: https://bit.ly/2ISsz2l
P.S. Help Wanted, Inquire Within
>>I'm also in agreement, but I'm concerned the proposed solution might treat the symptoms without addressing the underlying problems. The pawnshop/gemshop contango thing should just go -- it feels like something that was done by mistake and never fixed. And I think the disparity between loresong prices and what players will pay is closer to the heart of the matter. It gives all leeches - vulture and camper alike - a reason to be there. It's those "rare finds" that can be bought up for 200k and resold for 10m, and events like Duskruin magnify this several times over.
Which price do you mean? The information on INSPECT is fairly new for pawnshops, so seeing what's what might also be indirectly part of the problem.
Wyrom, PM
Which price do you mean? The information on INSPECT is fairly new for pawnshops, so seeing what's what might also be indirectly part of the problem.
Wyrom, PM
>Which price do you mean? The information on INSPECT is fairly new for pawnshops, so seeing what's what might also be indirectly part of the problem.
Not sure I'm following, exactly. Based on past sales I assume the loresong value of an item is where the pawnshop begins when it offers a price for an item. Items bought from merchants appraise at exactly their shelf value. Some fraction of this, then modified by influence, trading, racial bias, and recent sales of the same type before offering an appraisal. If the item is sold, and if it qualifies, it goes on a table, priced above the appraisal price. Some of the loresong values for some of the items in the game are similar to what they would fetch in the player market. Some are higher; some are lower. These differences are what cause people to hover around the backroom. Some of the jewelry is worth more than 2-3 decent boxes.
There's too much disparity between loresong values and what players will pay. There should be a system where these can be easily adjusted on the server side once or twice a year to better align with supply and demand. There are enhancive claidhmores that aren't worth buying at any price to a player that loresing for millions. There are enhancive items offered for 50k that are worth 10x that. Most of items with temporary enhancements appraise for drastically more than their permanent counterparts. When the pawnshop prices an item equal to or higher than what most players will pay, then this effectively removes the scavenge-and-resell operation. Only the people who need the item for their own character will consider buying it. Or people who think they might be worth more down the road.
During events like Duskruin, the junk that crosses the tables flies by very quickly. Players who script-sell their items contribute to a reactive camping-scripting effect. This is one reason why I've suggested that selling be rate-limited (buying can be, too). If one player is going to sell so many things that they all fly off the tables within a couple seconds, then this behavior naturally drives another player to camp and use their own tools to inspect and grab those items before they are rotated out. Or, perhaps they should be sold some other way.
Anyway, the gist of my first reply was to consider the causes of this.. ecosystem.. and consider a remedy for them instead of just slapping a band-aid on it. One man's trash is another man's treasure, I suppose.
Not sure I'm following, exactly. Based on past sales I assume the loresong value of an item is where the pawnshop begins when it offers a price for an item. Items bought from merchants appraise at exactly their shelf value. Some fraction of this, then modified by influence, trading, racial bias, and recent sales of the same type before offering an appraisal. If the item is sold, and if it qualifies, it goes on a table, priced above the appraisal price. Some of the loresong values for some of the items in the game are similar to what they would fetch in the player market. Some are higher; some are lower. These differences are what cause people to hover around the backroom. Some of the jewelry is worth more than 2-3 decent boxes.
There's too much disparity between loresong values and what players will pay. There should be a system where these can be easily adjusted on the server side once or twice a year to better align with supply and demand. There are enhancive claidhmores that aren't worth buying at any price to a player that loresing for millions. There are enhancive items offered for 50k that are worth 10x that. Most of items with temporary enhancements appraise for drastically more than their permanent counterparts. When the pawnshop prices an item equal to or higher than what most players will pay, then this effectively removes the scavenge-and-resell operation. Only the people who need the item for their own character will consider buying it. Or people who think they might be worth more down the road.
During events like Duskruin, the junk that crosses the tables flies by very quickly. Players who script-sell their items contribute to a reactive camping-scripting effect. This is one reason why I've suggested that selling be rate-limited (buying can be, too). If one player is going to sell so many things that they all fly off the tables within a couple seconds, then this behavior naturally drives another player to camp and use their own tools to inspect and grab those items before they are rotated out. Or, perhaps they should be sold some other way.
Anyway, the gist of my first reply was to consider the causes of this.. ecosystem.. and consider a remedy for them instead of just slapping a band-aid on it. One man's trash is another man's treasure, I suppose.
Another way to slow that down would be not to dump so many items (that are just going to be sold off anyhow) in the Arena packages.
Seriously: if instead of the shield I found--either in February or late last year--that was +8 TD (temporarily) I had found a voucher for +4 temp TD... HELL yes I would've kept that and used it. Same with padding, weighting, resistance, and so on. Slather it on the armor like a good layer of insulating grease, gimme some more.
But I have precisely NO use for a +15 shield, of any size, no matter whether it has spikes and flares and whatnot.
And for a low-level character who MAY have a use for a +15 shield... odds are, he doesn't need either +4 nor even +8 TD. Stop by TSC--or the new Invoker--and get light blues. Okay, buddy, you're good. Oh, and here's dark blues, and three kinds of luminescence. Not just +10 you were looking for, but 25 more (for that Realm) and 40 (for this other Realm), to boot.
Then, if he should happen to run into a SECOND character (one who's not a Sorcerer), maybe he can start getting some of the less 'normal' spells, too.
Seriously: if instead of the shield I found--either in February or late last year--that was +8 TD (temporarily) I had found a voucher for +4 temp TD... HELL yes I would've kept that and used it. Same with padding, weighting, resistance, and so on. Slather it on the armor like a good layer of insulating grease, gimme some more.
But I have precisely NO use for a +15 shield, of any size, no matter whether it has spikes and flares and whatnot.
And for a low-level character who MAY have a use for a +15 shield... odds are, he doesn't need either +4 nor even +8 TD. Stop by TSC--or the new Invoker--and get light blues. Okay, buddy, you're good. Oh, and here's dark blues, and three kinds of luminescence. Not just +10 you were looking for, but 25 more (for that Realm) and 40 (for this other Realm), to boot.
Then, if he should happen to run into a SECOND character (one who's not a Sorcerer), maybe he can start getting some of the less 'normal' spells, too.
>>Anyway, the gist of my first reply was to consider the causes of this.. ecosystem.. and consider a remedy for them instead of just slapping a band-aid on it. One man's trash is another man's treasure, I suppose.
Okay, I didn't quite understand the concern. Up until you could INSPECT pawnshop items, nothing really sold. Some players took risks and bought expensive things, but the majority of all pawnshop items were just deleted. I don't see a way we can have a system know the player market automatically.
Sounds like there are three separate concerns.
1) Scripting to make purchases.
2) Values don't meet the secondary market pricing.
3) High volume of items during specific events, resulting in cycling items too quickly.
We likely can take a look at 1 and 3, but unsure what we can do about 2. There is a lot that goes into value appraisals, which feed into other systems on how things work.
Wyrom, PM
Okay, I didn't quite understand the concern. Up until you could INSPECT pawnshop items, nothing really sold. Some players took risks and bought expensive things, but the majority of all pawnshop items were just deleted. I don't see a way we can have a system know the player market automatically.
Sounds like there are three separate concerns.
1) Scripting to make purchases.
2) Values don't meet the secondary market pricing.
3) High volume of items during specific events, resulting in cycling items too quickly.
We likely can take a look at 1 and 3, but unsure what we can do about 2. There is a lot that goes into value appraisals, which feed into other systems on how things work.
Wyrom, PM
>1) Scripting to make purchases.
>2) Values don't meet the secondary market pricing.
>3) High volume of items during specific events, resulting in cycling items too quickly.
To sum up all the concerns I've read, I'd add:
4) Camping, generally.
5) Contango with gemshop pricing.
The OP was upset about #1 and #4. I think #4 could be hindered, or made less relevant, by eliminating 5 and working on 2. Unfortunately, a big part of the reason why people look for stuff in the pawnshop (camping or otherwise) is rolled into 2 and 5, unless they are looking for something specific -- and they can easily be doing both. As long as there are some small gains to be had, people will probably end up camping. Or popping in every few minutes.
#2 is not straightforward but someone might have a clever solution for it.
>2) Values don't meet the secondary market pricing.
>3) High volume of items during specific events, resulting in cycling items too quickly.
To sum up all the concerns I've read, I'd add:
4) Camping, generally.
5) Contango with gemshop pricing.
The OP was upset about #1 and #4. I think #4 could be hindered, or made less relevant, by eliminating 5 and working on 2. Unfortunately, a big part of the reason why people look for stuff in the pawnshop (camping or otherwise) is rolled into 2 and 5, unless they are looking for something specific -- and they can easily be doing both. As long as there are some small gains to be had, people will probably end up camping. Or popping in every few minutes.
#2 is not straightforward but someone might have a clever solution for it.
>For the items being purchased too quickly by campers, is it mostly to flip them for a profit?
Generally, yes. Jewelry of a certain value can be walked over to the gemshop for an instant profit. Everything else might be sold via the usual channels, in-game or out, at whatever time the seller deems appropriate.
It would be kind of a pity to lock these down altogether, since it's sort of a mini-game, but maybe something can be added to ensure everyone gets a fair shake. There are a lot of variables, and everyone plays by different rules.
Generally, yes. Jewelry of a certain value can be walked over to the gemshop for an instant profit. Everything else might be sold via the usual channels, in-game or out, at whatever time the seller deems appropriate.
It would be kind of a pity to lock these down altogether, since it's sort of a mini-game, but maybe something can be added to ensure everyone gets a fair shake. There are a lot of variables, and everyone plays by different rules.
This forum post was sent to me by Roblar and asked if I'd like to respond, we talk often and he thought it would be good if I put my thoughts down. I in general don't post because...I write too much. I apologize to anyone who's about to read this.
This post has gotten alot more traction than the previous one discussing pawnshop watching and have alot of interesting points, remedies and outright mistakes that hopefully I can clear up. I do apologize for the nitpicking of what's previously been written, but when something is blatantly false I'll be talking about that, even when at first glance it can be mistaken as being true. Sadly, since I don't know the characters of the folks talking I'll have to speak only of my experiences.
As mentioned above there are characters in general who are sitting in the pawnshop buying items. The first thing to cover is Why. The answer is that a jewelry item can be sold to the gemshop, or the pawnshop. ANY jewelry item sold to the pawnshop, can be sold for more to the gemshop. The reason there are squatters, vultures, campers, players sitting in the backroom is that Jewelry purchased from the pawnshop table can be purchased and resold to the gemshop for a profit. I've always called this shuffling and will refer to it below as such. Kodab obviously knows this as you mentioned " In the past I've enjoyed stopping by and buying occasional items to re-sell at the gem shop". This has nothing to do with the INSPECT addition that occurred and is based strictly on the price of the item, what and what it is(ie not armor which the gemshop won't buy)
How does this happen?
In general people are lazy and use scripts to sell, ;sloot etc. However, I've met a number of newer folks that sell to the gemshop by selling a container which will not sell jewelry items. The gemshop even warns you about this saying, I found 2 pieces of jewelry that I do not buy in container deals but it doesn't tell you what those items are, leading to an information gap.
Some of the items that some might not know count as "jewelry" are plates, statues, miniatures, flasks. If I catch someone selling items like this SLOWLY, I will peer outside to the front room(this doesn't work in all pawnshops) and if they are still there and recognize them as being new I'll let them know this fact. I'm ok making silver because of a player's laziness, I'm less ok with making money off a player's ignorance and do my best to always fix that.
>Every time I visit the landing pawnshop I see the same 1 or 2 people camped there.
I'm going to assume I'm one of them even though I my play times are primarily during offpeak times somewhere within 7pm Server - 10am Server. And it's true, this character doesn't move from this room unless it's to show someone new, or a returning player something they didn't know about like the invoker or where a playershop is.
>They buy items (mostly the jewelry and magic items) within seconds of it being put down by the shopkeeper.
We'll call this problem 1a (script buying) and 1b(script buying while afk).
Well this isn't me since my camping character is usually at item cap. I haven't made a purchase in 6 months on this character. This is also a point I wholeheartedly agree with! I don't like bots either hunting or otherwise however I'm not a bot, I sit in the pawnshop answering questions I see come across lnet:help or ESP:help. I also find this place is easily the best place to find someone who's new or a returning player who needs help. I do look at what's on the tables. If there is something interesting or an item I believe I can shuffle, and I'm not busy on my main account, I'll swap and see if I can grab the item.
However there are 2 players who CAN a script buy. One is an infrequent visitor. They're also here and not afk purchasing anything. We'll come back to this point later, but you could know none of the folks who make purchases are afk. If you spoke to any of us, or asked a question while we're sitting here you'd learn this. But I wouldn't go out of my way to speak to people I don't care for either so we'll move on.
I'm going to need a little leeway on this paragraph. You're making a correct statement (there are 2 people who sit in the landing pawnshop) leading to an I believe an incorrect assumption (these 2 people buy everything). There are 2 people that sit at the Landing pawnshop very often and for extended times. Your incorrect assumption is that these 2 characters are the only ones who buy items. I started a list of folks who bought items to shuffle, only at the Landing pawnshop, and the list was 23 different characters since this was posted to the forums. A problem isn't the 2 people, it's that more people know this shuffling is effective.
TL:DR : Script buying exists, I don't do it. Script buying while afk doesn't exist, but could.
>In the past I've enjoyed stopping by and buying occasional items to re-sell at the gem shop or stumbling across a rare find.
We'll call this problem 2 and 3.
We come to a contentious problem 2 here. So just to be clear, Kodab also want to shuffle items to the gemshop that people sell in the pawnshop because they're lazy or uninformed but you also have fun doing other things like hunting because that provides greater enjoyment and don't sit in the pawnshop backroom. You do those fun activities but don't want me to do what I enjoy as well because our opinions and playstyles are different. I know how to change my oil, but I pay someone to do that to because I'd rather do other things. I don't ask folks to stop hunting creatures that I enjoy hunting because of loot pressure. I adapt to the situation by either getting better at what I do, or changing the conditions and move to a new hunting ground. If the problem is you don't want me script buying items, I agree with you...and don't do it as mentioned above. If the problem is you don't want me getting stuff you want, I'll politely have to disagree.
Problem 3.
This one is also contentious. I do find rare finds because I sit here. You're out hunting earning an income, I'm basically playing the lottery. My lottery still depends on another player's laziness. I speak with other pawnshop hunters and get excited over their finds, talk to them when I learn an item was sold by mistake hoping to facilitate a return. We've all lost items, and know how aggrivating it is. However, since you've never spoken with me. You don't know that any item I buy from the pawnshop I wait 30 days before considering it mine. Am I required to do this, No I choose to. I check the towncrier's lost and found posts religiously to see if someone sold something in error. I've also spoken with a enough players who are comfortable bringing up lost items and if I've seen them.
If I catch items I believe are rare enough to be better sold outside the pawnshop I try to contact the person who sold the item using PEER OUT. I've also had multiple conversations verifying from players if they meant to sell an item that just hit the table (a guess because I don't see the sale transaction from within another room.) I've returned many items including a an original fish spine sword, a mithglin claidhmore, a dragon etched dagger, a paper bag hat... . I've directly seen the other person return a Sephwir Longbow.
I've also explained to people how the pawnshop tables work when they sell an item that doesn't immediately appear on the table from knowledge I've gained while sitting here, or was relayed to me from others. How to submit assists, how to submit lost items to the towncrier, what REGISTERing is, what MARKing is, how to set nomarkeddrop On. What bards do, what the AI Crystal does, what a bard temp unlock does. I like mechanics, I love explaining them to folks.
You've also only mentioned the Landing pawnshop. There are 11 pawnshops that I know of, and I sit in 1 because part of my goal is to help people with questions. You're more than welcome to try your luck at other pawnshops, but you're still competing against the 23+ folks mentioned above that are also looking for the same items you are.
I'd like to thank Clunk, and the others who stopped by the pawnshop asking if I'd like them to post into this thread. I enjoy my Sunday morning conversations with Clunk and my frequent visitors who I've watched grow from Level 1 into their 50s-80s. I enjoy all the brand new and returning players I've met over the last year, helping them with mechanics, telling them about towncrier and upcoming events, or offering a listening ear when folks on lnet told them to quit when they didn't understand an aspect of the game. I was humbled by the 2 mentors who reached out to me saying if I applied to be a mentor, they're support it. I'm happy I've been able to help over 30 people fix infomon with Doug's fix, including the person who took 1.5 hours and offered to do my taxes because I was so patient. But please don't treat me as a second class citizen because of where I stand.
-Storig, the pawnshop Clerk
ps Kandor I'm sorry I didn't get to alot of your thoughts because they're generally on point. This has become a very large post and I am interested in responding to your posts, but hopefully at a later date.
The current pawnshop system is really fun. Being able to stop in, find something neat for a cheap price to use or sell is honestly a rewarding aspect of the game. I’d ask that whatever changes are made, that general process isn’t removed.
Also, I would also generally agree that the individuals who “camp” the pawnshop are not AFK scripting. I’ve spoken to both of them, and others I’ve seen in there and they generally are very responsive. Specifically, Storig is a hidden gem of this game. He is one of the most helpful people you will find. The pawnshop is an ideal place for him to find people that need help, and i've witnessed that on more than a few occasions.
I agree that scripting could be a problem, but currently I don’t see it as a problem. I often go around to various pawnshops and still can find good things.
One thing you could consider implementing is a purchasing limit. You can only buy X number of items in X amount of time. The other idea is to set a time limit on how long you can be in the pawnshop, but that seems easily avoided for someone dedicated enough. I am not a huge fan of either option, but those are the only viable things I can think of without ruining the current system.
My fear is changes will be made to fix a problem that doesn’t currently exist, but will ultimately lead to a change in mechanics that will take away from what a lot of players generally are enjoying.
Also, I would also generally agree that the individuals who “camp” the pawnshop are not AFK scripting. I’ve spoken to both of them, and others I’ve seen in there and they generally are very responsive. Specifically, Storig is a hidden gem of this game. He is one of the most helpful people you will find. The pawnshop is an ideal place for him to find people that need help, and i've witnessed that on more than a few occasions.
I agree that scripting could be a problem, but currently I don’t see it as a problem. I often go around to various pawnshops and still can find good things.
One thing you could consider implementing is a purchasing limit. You can only buy X number of items in X amount of time. The other idea is to set a time limit on how long you can be in the pawnshop, but that seems easily avoided for someone dedicated enough. I am not a huge fan of either option, but those are the only viable things I can think of without ruining the current system.
My fear is changes will be made to fix a problem that doesn’t currently exist, but will ultimately lead to a change in mechanics that will take away from what a lot of players generally are enjoying.
I don't really see a problem with the pawnshop/gemshop arbitrage. The pawnshop has been buying everything the gemshop will buy -- including simple gems -- for a very long time. It was clear during DR that plenty of serious players were too lazy to hit the gemshop. (And yes, not updating your scripts counts as being lazy.)
If there's a concern about new players, consider this information for the usual places we disseminate all the wild and weird info that helps you play the game optimally.
>> Every time I visit the landing pawnshop I see the same 1 or 2 people camped there. They buy items (mostly the jewelry and magic items) within seconds of it being put down by the shopkeeper. In the past I've enjoyed stopping by and buying occasional items to re-sell at the gem shop or stumbling across a rare find. However, this is no longer the case because of these campers (it's really mainly one person, who I don't think I can name here on the forums).
I can only assume, along with others upthread, that this was referring to Storig. As he and others explained, he's doing nothing of the sort. This thread is looking for solutions to a problem that doesn't exist.
If there's a concern about new players, consider this information for the usual places we disseminate all the wild and weird info that helps you play the game optimally.
>> Every time I visit the landing pawnshop I see the same 1 or 2 people camped there. They buy items (mostly the jewelry and magic items) within seconds of it being put down by the shopkeeper. In the past I've enjoyed stopping by and buying occasional items to re-sell at the gem shop or stumbling across a rare find. However, this is no longer the case because of these campers (it's really mainly one person, who I don't think I can name here on the forums).
I can only assume, along with others upthread, that this was referring to Storig. As he and others explained, he's doing nothing of the sort. This thread is looking for solutions to a problem that doesn't exist.
After thinking this one up and down for awhile this morning, I have a suggestion:
Continue allowing the pawnshop to buy jewelry at the reduced price. This is what pawnshops do best. However, raise the backroom sale prices for these items to the same price that the gemshop would offer for them, or nearly so.
I know players who enjoy the existing system will hate this, but this seems like low-hanging fruit and will help solve the shuffling/contango/arbitrage with possibly the least amount of coding. It won't remove it completely and it won't stop the lazy/scripting issues or folks who didn't know the gemshop offers a better price. It might discourage some of the camping and leeching, but the "rare finds" will still be worth more than this. Most of other the ideas I had involve coding a backroom to the gemshop/jeweler in every town, relegating the pawnshop to non-jewelry items, etc. These are sensible but may not represent what is needed most, and I'm certain the tedium word would come into play gain.
Actually, all items sold in the backroom could just be raised to their loresong value. There are certainly some items now (runestaves come to mind) whose backroom sale price at ~50% already exceeds their typical prices on the player market, but this is a problem with flooding supply from many years of Duskruin. Raising the backroom prices across the board will bring them closer to NPC prices.
Continue allowing the pawnshop to buy jewelry at the reduced price. This is what pawnshops do best. However, raise the backroom sale prices for these items to the same price that the gemshop would offer for them, or nearly so.
I know players who enjoy the existing system will hate this, but this seems like low-hanging fruit and will help solve the shuffling/contango/arbitrage with possibly the least amount of coding. It won't remove it completely and it won't stop the lazy/scripting issues or folks who didn't know the gemshop offers a better price. It might discourage some of the camping and leeching, but the "rare finds" will still be worth more than this. Most of other the ideas I had involve coding a backroom to the gemshop/jeweler in every town, relegating the pawnshop to non-jewelry items, etc. These are sensible but may not represent what is needed most, and I'm certain the tedium word would come into play gain.
Actually, all items sold in the backroom could just be raised to their loresong value. There are certainly some items now (runestaves come to mind) whose backroom sale price at ~50% already exceeds their typical prices on the player market, but this is a problem with flooding supply from many years of Duskruin. Raising the backroom prices across the board will bring them closer to NPC prices.
Temporary weighting/padding/whatever is valued SO HIGHLY in appraisals that it is a running joke among the players - nobody wants to use it. By the time it gets to the pawnshop and gets a WAY high price tag based on the appraised value that is ridiculously high, young characters who might have taken a chance on it cannot afford it.
We have discussed this several times in threads here over the last couple years. A smarter pawn shop owner should have realized this long ago. Nobody is gonna buy that temp padded armor for 750,000 silvers off the table. If you could afford it, you've got pretty good armor already and won't bother with temp stuff under normal circumstances.
As to this camping thing, I've met so many fun people and had great times in the back rooms of the pawn shops. (I still have that gold string-you know who you are!) I mighta even hired someone there! :)
As a young apprentice Bardess, people took the time to teach me things while visiting the tables.
Last Duskruin, a couple of you asked me what I was looking for while I was table-shopping. Lo and behold, within 24 hours, they'd bought one and gave it to me! This happened a couple times. It blew me away.
So ... there may be troublesome things that need fixing about using the pawnshop system, I do not think the folks who are hanging out there are one of them.
--
ESP TUNE TOWNCRIER or ;tune towncrier
Web: http://gstowncrier.com/
Daily Email: gstowncrier.com/subscribe/
gstowncrier.com/where-to-find-the-towncrier/
Send in news: https://bit.ly/2ISsz2l
P.S. Help Wanted, Inquire Within
We have discussed this several times in threads here over the last couple years. A smarter pawn shop owner should have realized this long ago. Nobody is gonna buy that temp padded armor for 750,000 silvers off the table. If you could afford it, you've got pretty good armor already and won't bother with temp stuff under normal circumstances.
As to this camping thing, I've met so many fun people and had great times in the back rooms of the pawn shops. (I still have that gold string-you know who you are!) I mighta even hired someone there! :)
As a young apprentice Bardess, people took the time to teach me things while visiting the tables.
Last Duskruin, a couple of you asked me what I was looking for while I was table-shopping. Lo and behold, within 24 hours, they'd bought one and gave it to me! This happened a couple times. It blew me away.
So ... there may be troublesome things that need fixing about using the pawnshop system, I do not think the folks who are hanging out there are one of them.
--
ESP TUNE TOWNCRIER or ;tune towncrier
Web: http://gstowncrier.com/
Daily Email: gstowncrier.com/subscribe/
gstowncrier.com/where-to-find-the-towncrier/
Send in news: https://bit.ly/2ISsz2l
P.S. Help Wanted, Inquire Within
Honestly, I agree with Luxelle. The temp properties are so overvalued it's ludicrous, while the camping issue sounds like solutions looking for a problem.
The suggestion of having the pricing on jewelry items match the gem shop might be effective in stopping the occasional person who buys to flip, but it also stops unofficial mentors from being able to identify those who might need some advice.
My two silvers.
Wee Sleepy Gnomette's player
From nearby, you hear Vyrshkana yell, "Why I's still drunkifyinged!"
Zicune yells, "Phenomenal cosmic liquir!"
Zicune yells, "Itty bitty drinker!"
The suggestion of having the pricing on jewelry items match the gem shop might be effective in stopping the occasional person who buys to flip, but it also stops unofficial mentors from being able to identify those who might need some advice.
My two silvers.
Wee Sleepy Gnomette's player
From nearby, you hear Vyrshkana yell, "Why I's still drunkifyinged!"
Zicune yells, "Phenomenal cosmic liquir!"
Zicune yells, "Itty bitty drinker!"
"Temporary weighting/padding/whatever is valued SO HIGHLY in appraisals that it is a running joke among the players - nobody wants to use it." -- Luxelle
I keep saying: voucher (for the package winner to USE on their equipment [or sell, of course]) rather than an actual piece of equipment with a temporary boost that no-one wants (winner doesn't need, potential buyer can't afford)....
I keep saying: voucher (for the package winner to USE on their equipment [or sell, of course]) rather than an actual piece of equipment with a temporary boost that no-one wants (winner doesn't need, potential buyer can't afford)....
I cant find anything I want at the pawnshop because campers and scripters are buying everything up.
Are you proposing a 24 hr holding period before anyone can purchase an item because you feel everyone should have an equal opportunity to be aware of an item placed for sale? You want the pawnshop turned into the trove?
Are you proposing a 24 hr holding period before anyone can purchase an item because you feel everyone should have an equal opportunity to be aware of an item placed for sale? You want the pawnshop turned into the trove?
| As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear. |
| A squeaky halfling nearby asks, "Why you playing with orcs heads and troll rearends?!" |
I was thinking there are larger questions to be asked...
Was the pawnshop intended to make one person (or a few) super wealthy in game? I would think no.
Could buying an item from the pawnshop and immediately selling it to the gemshop for 2x+ what you paid for it actually be an exploit? My character is only 30ish with 2x trade and can already buy an item and sell it for over 2x what he paid for it. Is the system working as intended? I think this might be a less obvious exploit that has gotten overlooked for a long time.
Some comments...
<For the items being purchased too quickly by campers, is it mostly to flip them for a profit?>
Yes. They are making silver profits in multiple ways. They are buying items to sell at the gemshop for ridiculous profits. They are buying things that are valuable and that people mistakenly sold to the pawnshop, and selling them on the secondary market. They are buying things that people sold to the pawnshop and that just have a much higher value than the pawnshop table price, and selling them on the secondary market.
<You do those fun activities but don't want me to do what I enjoy as well because our opinions and playstyles are different.>
This is just false and you are trying to compare apples to oranges here. I didn’t post because I didn’t want you, Storig, not to have fun. I posted because there is someone (not Storig) camping the landing pawnshop and likely using a script to buy things (and possibly scripting afk). He is ruining things for a lot of people there, not just me.
<This one is also contentious. I do find rare finds because I sit here. You're out hunting earning an income, I'm basically playing the lottery. My lottery still depends on another player's laziness.>
I believe that this is untrue on multiple levels. I find your comparison to a lottery hard to believe. I know how lucrative it is to do what you are doing. You are making a killing. And it’s not just other players laziness that make you money, it’s their mistakes, and it’s the likely exploit in place that allows the instant reselling of items for huge profits, and it’s the endless flow of enhancives, mage rechargeables, and all kinds of items (weighted and padded items, etc.) that people sell at the pawn as well (I’ve sat there and watched people empty lockers full of neat stuff that could easily be resold for big profits). Some of the enhancives can fetch millions on the secondary market.
<I can only assume, along with others upthread, that this was referring to Storig. As he and others explained, he's doing nothing of the sort. This thread is looking for solutions to a problem that doesn't exist.>
No, I am not referring to Storig. Storig knows who I am referring to. And there are multiple problems that exist. I am not the only one who posted in favor of looking into things.
<So ... there may be troublesome things that need fixing about using the pawnshop system, I do not think the folks who are hanging out there are one of them.>
I don’t understand why everyone is running cover for this one person who is there and is camping and is scripting and is a problem for many of us.
Was the pawnshop intended to make one person (or a few) super wealthy in game? I would think no.
Could buying an item from the pawnshop and immediately selling it to the gemshop for 2x+ what you paid for it actually be an exploit? My character is only 30ish with 2x trade and can already buy an item and sell it for over 2x what he paid for it. Is the system working as intended? I think this might be a less obvious exploit that has gotten overlooked for a long time.
Some comments...
<For the items being purchased too quickly by campers, is it mostly to flip them for a profit?>
Yes. They are making silver profits in multiple ways. They are buying items to sell at the gemshop for ridiculous profits. They are buying things that are valuable and that people mistakenly sold to the pawnshop, and selling them on the secondary market. They are buying things that people sold to the pawnshop and that just have a much higher value than the pawnshop table price, and selling them on the secondary market.
<You do those fun activities but don't want me to do what I enjoy as well because our opinions and playstyles are different.>
This is just false and you are trying to compare apples to oranges here. I didn’t post because I didn’t want you, Storig, not to have fun. I posted because there is someone (not Storig) camping the landing pawnshop and likely using a script to buy things (and possibly scripting afk). He is ruining things for a lot of people there, not just me.
<This one is also contentious. I do find rare finds because I sit here. You're out hunting earning an income, I'm basically playing the lottery. My lottery still depends on another player's laziness.>
I believe that this is untrue on multiple levels. I find your comparison to a lottery hard to believe. I know how lucrative it is to do what you are doing. You are making a killing. And it’s not just other players laziness that make you money, it’s their mistakes, and it’s the likely exploit in place that allows the instant reselling of items for huge profits, and it’s the endless flow of enhancives, mage rechargeables, and all kinds of items (weighted and padded items, etc.) that people sell at the pawn as well (I’ve sat there and watched people empty lockers full of neat stuff that could easily be resold for big profits). Some of the enhancives can fetch millions on the secondary market.
<I can only assume, along with others upthread, that this was referring to Storig. As he and others explained, he's doing nothing of the sort. This thread is looking for solutions to a problem that doesn't exist.>
No, I am not referring to Storig. Storig knows who I am referring to. And there are multiple problems that exist. I am not the only one who posted in favor of looking into things.
<So ... there may be troublesome things that need fixing about using the pawnshop system, I do not think the folks who are hanging out there are one of them.>
I don’t understand why everyone is running cover for this one person who is there and is camping and is scripting and is a problem for many of us.
If something to prevent camping was put in place, would it solve all these problems? If a periodic ban was used, they might just rotate in and out every few minutes, and this wouldn't really solve much -- at least half the time, you would still find them there when you walk in. Is there a reasonable way to prevent scripting? And what if they aren't scripting?
Rather, I'd try to fix the root cause -- take away their incentive to be there. There have been a number of suggestions already along these lines. And I suspect Wyrom might be onto something about seeing the item properties, and needing to gamble a little.
Rather, I'd try to fix the root cause -- take away their incentive to be there. There have been a number of suggestions already along these lines. And I suspect Wyrom might be onto something about seeing the item properties, and needing to gamble a little.
| I cant find anything I want at the pawnshop because campers and scripters are buying everything up. |
The thing is, you very likely wouldn't have found those items you were looking for anyway because items cycle off at a pretty good clip, at least the busier ones like the Landing and Four Winds. In fact, you are probably more likely to find something if you let one the campers know what you are looking for, a lot would be happy to keep an eye out for you.
Player of Kyaloria
@Kyaloria#0165
<The thing is, you very likely wouldn't have found those items you were looking for anyway because items cycle off at a pretty good clip, at least the busier ones like the Landing and Four Winds. In fact, you are probably more likely to find something if you let one the campers know what you are looking for, a lot would be happy to keep an eye out for you.>
Seems to me that if they just made the pawnshop and gemshop pay the same for jewelry, it would solve the part of the problem I'd believe happens.
If there was a problem with someone scripting the purchase of enhansives to sell, I'd expect to see someone posting a long list of them on the PC for sale and keeping it updated at least every couple days. That's just not happening though. The reason there's not a lot of enhansives for sale at the pawn likely has more to do with there being no event going on to churn them out then with back room scripting. Really nice enhansives CAN be found hunting, but hunting pressure around the Landing keeps the value of loot low enough that it's gonna be rare for people to find them around that town. Someone would be much better off looking in the pawnshops of SolHaven, RR, and maybe Teras for over-looked enhansives then the Landing (unless DR is going on).... though RR prolly isn't as good as it used to be now that the boot is back and there's people pretty much constantly farming the Citadel.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Seems to me that if they just made the pawnshop and gemshop pay the same for jewelry, it would solve the part of the problem I'd believe happens.
If there was a problem with someone scripting the purchase of enhansives to sell, I'd expect to see someone posting a long list of them on the PC for sale and keeping it updated at least every couple days. That's just not happening though. The reason there's not a lot of enhansives for sale at the pawn likely has more to do with there being no event going on to churn them out then with back room scripting. Really nice enhansives CAN be found hunting, but hunting pressure around the Landing keeps the value of loot low enough that it's gonna be rare for people to find them around that town. Someone would be much better off looking in the pawnshops of SolHaven, RR, and maybe Teras for over-looked enhansives then the Landing (unless DR is going on).... though RR prolly isn't as good as it used to be now that the boot is back and there's people pretty much constantly farming the Citadel.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
1. Beat up a critter for some Jewelry
2. Appraise it at the pawnshop
3. Appraise it at the GemShop
4. Sell jewelry to gemshop
1. Buy a (suitably priced, not too high the gemshop will not buy it) piece of jewelry from the Pawnshop Table
2. Take it to the Gemshop
3. Sell jewelry to gemshop
4. Profit
I was taught this as a young apprentice bardess by some very helpful people. You know, who had like 5,000 silvers to gamble on a pawnshop buy on a lucky week. I kinda figured it was that way to help younger characters. Pretty sure I can now make more on a hunt than full time pawnshop to gemshop reselling, though.
--
ESP TUNE TOWNCRIER or ;tune towncrier
Web: http://gstowncrier.com/
Daily Email: gstowncrier.com/subscribe/
gstowncrier.com/where-to-find-the-towncrier/
Send in news: https://bit.ly/2ISsz2l
P.S. Help Wanted, Inquire Within
2. Appraise it at the pawnshop
3. Appraise it at the GemShop
4. Sell jewelry to gemshop
1. Buy a (suitably priced, not too high the gemshop will not buy it) piece of jewelry from the Pawnshop Table
2. Take it to the Gemshop
3. Sell jewelry to gemshop
4. Profit
I was taught this as a young apprentice bardess by some very helpful people. You know, who had like 5,000 silvers to gamble on a pawnshop buy on a lucky week. I kinda figured it was that way to help younger characters. Pretty sure I can now make more on a hunt than full time pawnshop to gemshop reselling, though.
--
ESP TUNE TOWNCRIER or ;tune towncrier
Web: http://gstowncrier.com/
Daily Email: gstowncrier.com/subscribe/
gstowncrier.com/where-to-find-the-towncrier/
Send in news: https://bit.ly/2ISsz2l
P.S. Help Wanted, Inquire Within
<I think I missed this in all this. Able to give an example?>
I can explain the concept, but don't have any examples. Keep in mind that I have far more experience with RR then the Landing, so some of the details might vary slightly
At the moment, the gem shop pays more for jewelry items then the pawnshop. According to a couple people in this thread, that difference is great enough that you can buy an item from the pawn and sell it to the gem shop at a profit (depending on stats, training, citizenship, etc).
I haven't tried doing this myself, but could see a character potentially making at least a small profit doing this if they trained in Trading, had citizenship, high INF, and they were the right race for that town. I am kind of skeptical it would be enough of a profit to bother with writing a script and camping in the pawn, though.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
I can explain the concept, but don't have any examples. Keep in mind that I have far more experience with RR then the Landing, so some of the details might vary slightly
At the moment, the gem shop pays more for jewelry items then the pawnshop. According to a couple people in this thread, that difference is great enough that you can buy an item from the pawn and sell it to the gem shop at a profit (depending on stats, training, citizenship, etc).
I haven't tried doing this myself, but could see a character potentially making at least a small profit doing this if they trained in Trading, had citizenship, high INF, and they were the right race for that town. I am kind of skeptical it would be enough of a profit to bother with writing a script and camping in the pawn, though.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
>I think I missed this in all this. Able to give an example?
Gemshop buys at loresong value and sells at double.
Pawnshop buys at 1/3 loresong value and sells at 2/3.
>appraise ruby
You peer intently at the star ruby as you turn it in your fingers, meticulously inspecting for flaws. You estimate that the star ruby is of average quality and worth approximately 1100 silvers.
Pawnshop
He smiles broadly and nods. "Not a bad little find there,... I'll give you 393 for this if you'd like."
Gemshop
The gem dealer takes the star ruby and inspects it carefully before saying, "I'll give you 1,313 silvers for it if you want to sell."
Gemshop buys at loresong value and sells at double.
Pawnshop buys at 1/3 loresong value and sells at 2/3.
>appraise ruby
You peer intently at the star ruby as you turn it in your fingers, meticulously inspecting for flaws. You estimate that the star ruby is of average quality and worth approximately 1100 silvers.
Pawnshop
He smiles broadly and nods. "Not a bad little find there,... I'll give you 393 for this if you'd like."
Gemshop
The gem dealer takes the star ruby and inspects it carefully before saying, "I'll give you 1,313 silvers for it if you want to sell."
Ah, this is actually a pretty big bug if you're saying you can generate new silvers.
~~~
I don't think it generates new silvers. The person who sells to pawn makes less than if they'd sold directly to the gemshop, the person who buys from the pawn to sell to the gemshop still pays silvers to the pawnshop.
Going by the example given:
Person 1 sells to pawn and gets 393 silvers, or 1/3 of loresong value.
Ruby shows up on pawnshop table.
Person 2 shells out 786 silvers, or 2/3 of loresong value.
Person 2 then sells at the gemshop and gets 1313 silvers.
393-786+1313=920 net gain of silvers.
If person 1 had sold directly to the gemshop, there wouldn't be a net gain, just a gain, of 1313 silvers.
Less silvers are being generated by people buying from the pawn to sell to the gemshop. The silvers are just being redistributed a bit.
Wee Sleepy Gnomette's player
From nearby, you hear Vyrshkana yell, "Why I's still drunkifyinged!"
Zicune yells, "Phenomenal cosmic liquir!"
Zicune yells, "Itty bitty drinker!"
~~~
I don't think it generates new silvers. The person who sells to pawn makes less than if they'd sold directly to the gemshop, the person who buys from the pawn to sell to the gemshop still pays silvers to the pawnshop.
Going by the example given:
Person 1 sells to pawn and gets 393 silvers, or 1/3 of loresong value.
Ruby shows up on pawnshop table.
Person 2 shells out 786 silvers, or 2/3 of loresong value.
Person 2 then sells at the gemshop and gets 1313 silvers.
393-786+1313=920 net gain of silvers.
If person 1 had sold directly to the gemshop, there wouldn't be a net gain, just a gain, of 1313 silvers.
Less silvers are being generated by people buying from the pawn to sell to the gemshop. The silvers are just being redistributed a bit.
Wee Sleepy Gnomette's player
From nearby, you hear Vyrshkana yell, "Why I's still drunkifyinged!"
Zicune yells, "Phenomenal cosmic liquir!"
Zicune yells, "Itty bitty drinker!"
Ah okay. Read what was being said wrong, or it's just late, or both. I see. I just ran like 10 tests to see how much silver I was generating. If PlayerA and PlayerB are the same person, no new silvers. It sounded like it was a small weird profit somehow. I understand it now though. The buyer (camper) can make a bit of silver if they see a high volume. How high is the volume in some of the busier cities (not Duskruin time)?
Wyrom, PM
Wyrom, PM
<Not citizenship, that only helps with some purchasing discounts.>
Which would push down how much you can purchase it from the pawn for and increase the likelihood of a profit when sold at the gemshop ;)
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Which would push down how much you can purchase it from the pawn for and increase the likelihood of a profit when sold at the gemshop ;)
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
>At the moment, the gem shop pays more for jewelry items then the pawnshop. According to a couple people in this thread, that difference is great enough that you can buy an item from the pawn and sell it to the gem shop at a profit (depending on stats, training, citizenship, etc).
Clunk does visits to the pawnshops for this purpose, usually when he's trying to make up for coin losses due to buying supplies for forging.
He has also occasionally pointed out to new characters (consistently reacting characters) that some items can be sold at the gemshop also.
Some of those are aware, and choose to sell at pawn anyway.
In terms of profit, Trade Skill helps, as does Citizenship, minor mental Glamour Spell, and 'Aura' or 'Influence' stat may help too.
In terms of roleplay, my opinion is there are several folks who handle this well, most of them acting as 'pawn shop assistants'.
I have occasionally asked them if they've seen things come through that my characters might be looking for.
They also seem to keep fairly up to speed on news-of-the-day.
Clunk
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
