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Does anyone know if AG bandits use the CM subdue or subdual strike?
As background, I'm asking about training CM for a roughly 2x capped wizard for mostly defensive purposes. He has zero CM training now. I plan on training in feint and cunning defense, but might want to pick up an early rank of subdual strike if that is what the bandits use. I don't have enough experience with CMs to know the difference between subdue and subdual strike, having mostly played pures throughout my GS life. As a wizard, I can train in subdual strike but not subdue.
Thanks
Thanks for the advice. I think the character in question is maxed in survival but only 1.2x or so in perception so I have a ways to go there.
It's also good to avoid starting CM training as long as possible, because I don't really want to start. If I'm doing my math right it will take about 2 years to get fully singled in CM.
It's also good to avoid starting CM training as long as possible, because I don't really want to start. If I'm doing my math right it will take about 2 years to get fully singled in CM.
>Perception and survival first -- if you don't have those maxed, save the CM for the third time round.
Doug
>Wait til you get into position to consider the Dodge skill.
What will survival do for Subdue or SS? Or Dodge?
-farmer
>He's right on all counts. ~Vanah
>Farmer is 100% correct. -REIDYN
>Farmer is correct -Wyrom
>Ahh, no, you are correct - QUARTZ
Doug
>Wait til you get into position to consider the Dodge skill.
What will survival do for Subdue or SS? Or Dodge?
-farmer
>He's right on all counts. ~Vanah
>Farmer is 100% correct. -REIDYN
>Farmer is correct -Wyrom
>Ahh, no, you are correct - QUARTZ
>>What will survival do for Subdue or SS? Or Dodge?
Do you have an answer to the question? Or are you simply interested in expensing someone else's response?
For example, the Dodge reference is tied to the subject only on the tags of pure, training, 2 years for CM. It'll likely take a bit more time for Dodge. But I'm fairly sure you know this -- so your rejoinder including it is 'technically correct' and yet so very wrong -- without some other motive.
Doug
Do you have an answer to the question? Or are you simply interested in expensing someone else's response?
For example, the Dodge reference is tied to the subject only on the tags of pure, training, 2 years for CM. It'll likely take a bit more time for Dodge. But I'm fairly sure you know this -- so your rejoinder including it is 'technically correct' and yet so very wrong -- without some other motive.
Doug
| Do you have an answer to the question? Or are you simply interested in expensing someone else's response? |
| For example, the Dodge reference is tied to the subject only on the tags of pure, training, 2 years for CM. It'll likely take a bit more time for Dodge. But I'm fairly sure you know this -- so your rejoinder including it is 'technically correct' and yet so very wrong -- without some other motive. |
| Doug |
I don't even know what you're trying to ask or say...
However, my 'motive' was that the OP was asking specifically about defending against bandit Subdue and SS, and since none of your suggestions concern that topic, I didn't want them to get confused (though their response seems to indicate they did).
Which is why I posted. In case I had missed some benefit to those specific skills. I didn't realize you were posting about vague wizard training timelines in general.
-farmer
>He's right on all counts. ~Vanah
>Farmer is 100% correct. -REIDYN
>Farmer is correct -Wyrom
>Ahh, no, you are correct - QUARTZ
Spoke with a couple other folks about this after digging through various collections of interest.
Consensus seems to be that adventure guild bandits can use both. If accurate:
There is value in training in CMAN Subdual Strike for protection, but SStrike doesn't seem to protect against Subdue.
Standard ambush rules apply (both), head covering helps reduce effects (Subdue, unclear about Subdual Strike), CMAN total ranks (both), stance (both) and moonstone cube (both) can help. Of six specific defender aids, four are 'free', two are spendy, and one of the two spendy aids doesn't always work.
I stand by my earlier statement -- more bang for general utility even against bandits in Survival and Perception first. In my experience, applicable to all pures, although Clerics may wish to evaluate a bit more closely in their training plans, given CMAN costs for the profession.
Doug
Consensus seems to be that adventure guild bandits can use both. If accurate:
There is value in training in CMAN Subdual Strike for protection, but SStrike doesn't seem to protect against Subdue.
Standard ambush rules apply (both), head covering helps reduce effects (Subdue, unclear about Subdual Strike), CMAN total ranks (both), stance (both) and moonstone cube (both) can help. Of six specific defender aids, four are 'free', two are spendy, and one of the two spendy aids doesn't always work.
I stand by my earlier statement -- more bang for general utility even against bandits in Survival and Perception first. In my experience, applicable to all pures, although Clerics may wish to evaluate a bit more closely in their training plans, given CMAN costs for the profession.
Doug
>I stand by my earlier statement -- more bang for general utility even against bandits in Survival and Perception first.
Doug
So what does survival do for Subdue or SS?
-farmer
>He's right on all counts. ~Vanah
>Farmer is 100% correct. -REIDYN
>Farmer is correct -Wyrom
>Ahh, no, you are correct - QUARTZ
Doug
So what does survival do for Subdue or SS?
-farmer
>He's right on all counts. ~Vanah
>Farmer is 100% correct. -REIDYN
>Farmer is correct -Wyrom
>Ahh, no, you are correct - QUARTZ
Thanks to all for the responses. I always appreciate the responses from folks with varying perspectives. For what it's worth, I have a low level (15ish) alt rogue that I rarely use. I think he has enough unused CMAN points to train in both subdue and SS. I could probably figure out the SS/Subdue messaging by testing on roltons or kobolds. I'm just too lazy. :)
And actually I think Farmer's last message may have clarified something for me. I believe that training in survival and perception will help in spotting/avoiding bandit traps triggered when walking and reducing bandit advantages when they ambush (not sure if this is a DS pushdown or a different crit table having never played a ambushing character to a significant degree). But I don't think that survival and perception help with bandit maneuvers (i.e. SS, subdue, the one where they cut your throat and prevent you from casting, etc). Is this the case?
And actually I think Farmer's last message may have clarified something for me. I believe that training in survival and perception will help in spotting/avoiding bandit traps triggered when walking and reducing bandit advantages when they ambush (not sure if this is a DS pushdown or a different crit table having never played a ambushing character to a significant degree). But I don't think that survival and perception help with bandit maneuvers (i.e. SS, subdue, the one where they cut your throat and prevent you from casting, etc). Is this the case?
I'm late on this but I'm pretty certain bandits can do both, both are attacks from hiding, subdue will stun you, and on strong successes can paralyze you and drive you to your knees (or to the ground if you are already kneeling I think).
Subdual strike will stun you, give you round time, and may give you a slow effect (extra RT on anything that generates RT). Training in one skill will only help you defend against that specific one.
Subdual strike will stun you, give you round time, and may give you a slow effect (extra RT on anything that generates RT). Training in one skill will only help you defend against that specific one.
