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I would like to see a spell added to the Arcane Circle that would raise one's TD, but lower your CS. Sort of like a magical Spiritual Barrier spell. The spell would obviously favor squares and swinging semi's, but I imagine even pures would use it in a pinch if they needed a big TD boost.
I think something along the lines of +20TD and -10 - -20 CS would be appropriate. Call it Null Magic.
Thoughts?
Evarin and his Mis'ri
Sounds like a pretty useful spell to me. I think it fits the current costs/benefits balance scheme, too.
~ Nuadjha, the Briar Fox
You inhale deeply upon your pipe, puckering your lips as you send out three rings of smoke before you, then puff out a small vine of smoke that darts right through all three which causes them to disperse in a hazy shroud!
~ Nuadjha, the Briar Fox
You inhale deeply upon your pipe, puckering your lips as you send out three rings of smoke before you, then puff out a small vine of smoke that darts right through all three which causes them to disperse in a hazy shroud!
The problem with this spell is that the penalty to CS is no penalty at all to professions that don't cast CS spells. Considering that those professions include rogues and warriors, who coincidently are usually also the two classes most at risk for CS based attacks, what you're creating is essentially a huge TD booster with no drawbacks for professions whose balancing quality is that they're susceptible to CS attacks.
That will make rogues and warriors more powerful, compared to other professions. Furthermore, the inevitable affect of this change would be to change critter CS to compensate.
I'm sure you have really, really good reasons and scenarios for which this spell would be great. The way I see it, however, is that it would be very unbalancing.
Now, don't get me wrong, my last two main characters have been rogues, so I personally would LOVE a spell like this. Nevertheless, I think it would be unbalancing, and would be surprised if anything like this was implemented.
That will make rogues and warriors more powerful, compared to other professions. Furthermore, the inevitable affect of this change would be to change critter CS to compensate.
I'm sure you have really, really good reasons and scenarios for which this spell would be great. The way I see it, however, is that it would be very unbalancing.
Now, don't get me wrong, my last two main characters have been rogues, so I personally would LOVE a spell like this. Nevertheless, I think it would be unbalancing, and would be surprised if anything like this was implemented.
How about +20 TD -20 bolt DS?
That seems like a fair trade, and bolt DS effects everyone equally.
Personally, I'd love another +TD spell from the arcane circle. I'd find it very useful in the Rift, where I'm constantly running Dissipation, and I still get warded from time-to-time (especially by elemental spells as a cleric).
"The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power" - William Shakespeare
That seems like a fair trade, and bolt DS effects everyone equally.
Personally, I'd love another +TD spell from the arcane circle. I'd find it very useful in the Rift, where I'm constantly running Dissipation, and I still get warded from time-to-time (especially by elemental spells as a cleric).
"The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power" - William Shakespeare
>Furthermore, the inevitable affect of this change would be to change critter CS to compensate. - Tsoran
No, not really.
I fully understand the argument of "ANY AS/DS/CS/TD IMPROVEMENT WILL BE INSTANTLY NEGATED BY CRITTER TWEAKS!" But there are very obvious caveats. Was critter TD raised when quartz orbs were released? No. Will critter TD be raised with 340 comes out? How about when 240 came out? No.
Why? Because these boosts aren't sustainable. Either by rarity of the spell, the costs involved, or other outside factors, changes to profession AS/DS/CS/TD can be made without just slapping the old "Can't! We'd have to change critters!" argument down on the table and calling it a day.
If this spell were to be released, it would likely be a high level arcane spell which would rarely gen on scrolls and magical objects. On scrolls, squares would need a high amount of Arcane Symbols to activate. It would still be possible, but only in short supply. I would put it at 1730+ so it cannot be infused by Sorcerers.
Magical items would be able to be activated by any warrior/rogue, etc without MIU training, much like Small statues. The item, like 1750, would not be rechargeable via Charge Item and would be rare. Not as rare as monocles, but up there.
Finally, the duration would be short. 5-10 minutes or so. Basically, 1 hunt. Flat, non-refreshable or stackable.
Balance is thus achieved.
Evarin and his Mis'ri
No, not really.
I fully understand the argument of "ANY AS/DS/CS/TD IMPROVEMENT WILL BE INSTANTLY NEGATED BY CRITTER TWEAKS!" But there are very obvious caveats. Was critter TD raised when quartz orbs were released? No. Will critter TD be raised with 340 comes out? How about when 240 came out? No.
Why? Because these boosts aren't sustainable. Either by rarity of the spell, the costs involved, or other outside factors, changes to profession AS/DS/CS/TD can be made without just slapping the old "Can't! We'd have to change critters!" argument down on the table and calling it a day.
If this spell were to be released, it would likely be a high level arcane spell which would rarely gen on scrolls and magical objects. On scrolls, squares would need a high amount of Arcane Symbols to activate. It would still be possible, but only in short supply. I would put it at 1730+ so it cannot be infused by Sorcerers.
Magical items would be able to be activated by any warrior/rogue, etc without MIU training, much like Small statues. The item, like 1750, would not be rechargeable via Charge Item and would be rare. Not as rare as monocles, but up there.
Finally, the duration would be short. 5-10 minutes or so. Basically, 1 hunt. Flat, non-refreshable or stackable.
Balance is thus achieved.
Evarin and his Mis'ri
>The problem with this spell is that the penalty to CS is no penalty at all to professions that don't cast CS spells.
Tsoran
What's the penalty that quartz orb users get?
-farmer
*
Tsoran
What's the penalty that quartz orb users get?
-farmer
*
| That's just what we want, criss-crossing furrows all over the town streets from someone wandering through with their animated plow super buddy. |
| -Strath |
<<What's the penalty that quartz orb users get?
Encumbrance, but only if you're carrying around quite a few of them. At 10 pounds a piece they really add up and can hit your DS hard once you start getting encumbered by adding boxes from the hunt on top of carrying a couple orbs.
-Adam
"You guys took all the pretty places." ~Anonymous
Encumbrance, but only if you're carrying around quite a few of them. At 10 pounds a piece they really add up and can hit your DS hard once you start getting encumbered by adding boxes from the hunt on top of carrying a couple orbs.
-Adam
"You guys took all the pretty places." ~Anonymous
>The problem with this spell is that the penalty to CS is no penalty at all to professions that don't cast CS spells.
The penalty to AS for 102 is no penalty at all to professions that don't use a weapon.
The bonus to DS (as well as the AS penalty) also increases with ranks in the MnS circle, thus providing a larger bonus with no apparent penalty (for professions that don't use weapons).
>If this spell were to be released, it would likely be a high level arcane spell which would rarely gen on scrolls and magical objects.
This. Similar to Arcane Barrier et. al.
>At 10 pounds a piece...
I thought they were 7 lbs.
~Eugenides, The Last
You monotonously drone, "Bwaaaaaaaaaah."
Aydan monotonously drones, "Bwaaaaaaaah."
A barn owl says, "Bwaaaaaaaaah."
From nearby, you hear Bristenn yell, "Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"
The penalty to AS for 102 is no penalty at all to professions that don't use a weapon.
The bonus to DS (as well as the AS penalty) also increases with ranks in the MnS circle, thus providing a larger bonus with no apparent penalty (for professions that don't use weapons).
>If this spell were to be released, it would likely be a high level arcane spell which would rarely gen on scrolls and magical objects.
This. Similar to Arcane Barrier et. al.
>At 10 pounds a piece...
I thought they were 7 lbs.
~Eugenides, The Last
You monotonously drone, "Bwaaaaaaaaaah."
Aydan monotonously drones, "Bwaaaaaaaah."
A barn owl says, "Bwaaaaaaaaah."
From nearby, you hear Bristenn yell, "Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"
>How about +20 TD -20 bolt DS? <LORDKRIP>
>Doesn't affect people who don't cast bolts. <Tsoran>
Highlighted for your benefit ;)
This is a very interesting concept. Trading one kind of defense for another? I like it.
I imagine a warrior would happily trade 20 generic DS for 20 generic TD. Heck, I imagine most PCs would.
>Doesn't affect people who don't cast bolts. <Tsoran>
Highlighted for your benefit ;)
This is a very interesting concept. Trading one kind of defense for another? I like it.
I imagine a warrior would happily trade 20 generic DS for 20 generic TD. Heck, I imagine most PCs would.
>Encumbrance, but only if you're carrying around quite a few of them. At 10 pounds a piece they really add up and can hit your DS hard once you start getting encumbered by adding boxes from the hunt on top of carrying a couple orbs.
-Adam
Disks, phase, spirit servant. Plus there's those fun off the shelf (ring I think) embeds of the spell that are wearable.
-farmer
*
-Adam
Disks, phase, spirit servant. Plus there's those fun off the shelf (ring I think) embeds of the spell that are wearable.
-farmer
*
| That's just what we want, criss-crossing furrows all over the town streets from someone wandering through with their animated plow super buddy. |
| -Strath |
The idea at it's core is to put a spell in the arcane circle which will be fairly rare, not chargeable or infusible, and has a trade off which is fairly negligible to squares, somewhat impactful to semis and painful to pures.
CS is the first thing that comes to mind. Bolt AS would work too, as magic is supposed to be dampened. But that would also mean incoming bolt spells should be penalized. It would be neat if the spell could negate a portion of magically Gained DS as a trade off. The more spells you're wearing, the more of a magical DS hit you take.
Evarin and his Mis'ri
CS is the first thing that comes to mind. Bolt AS would work too, as magic is supposed to be dampened. But that would also mean incoming bolt spells should be penalized. It would be neat if the spell could negate a portion of magically Gained DS as a trade off. The more spells you're wearing, the more of a magical DS hit you take.
Evarin and his Mis'ri
><<What's the penalty that quartz orb users get?
>Encumbrance, but only if you're carrying around quite a few of them.
Not an issue now that all quartz orbs are mage rechargeable.
Droit
Speaking to you, the ghostly voice of Kaedra asks, "Have I ever told you, I think you're crazy?"
>
The ghostly voice of Kaedra says, "That was an insane rescue."
>Encumbrance, but only if you're carrying around quite a few of them.
Not an issue now that all quartz orbs are mage rechargeable.
Droit
Speaking to you, the ghostly voice of Kaedra asks, "Have I ever told you, I think you're crazy?"
>
The ghostly voice of Kaedra says, "That was an insane rescue."
... I was beginning to think I was the crazy one, and I missed some massive change to the game where bolt DS only applied to bolters. Glad I'm not crazy.
On topic, I'm with Keleborrn on this one. I don't want to see it be 1750 rare.
I think somewhere in the 1714, 1716, 1717, or 1719 slot seems appropriate.
"The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power" - William Shakespeare
On topic, I'm with Keleborrn on this one. I don't want to see it be 1750 rare.
I think somewhere in the 1714, 1716, 1717, or 1719 slot seems appropriate.
"The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power" - William Shakespeare
Not everything I post is a joke!
I forgot about Bolt AS, but it's whatever whatever.
102 doesn't affect Bolt AS, and is essentially free DS for a bolter profession, so the precedent has already been set.
If the proposed arcane spell would require -10 Bolt AS in addition to -10 CS and -10 CMAN resolution, as I said, whatevs. Make it so.
-Sea Wizard
You reach into the cauldron and take out a silvery monogram rocket.
The cauldron raises up two of its legs and clasps them in victory.
I forgot about Bolt AS, but it's whatever whatever.
102 doesn't affect Bolt AS, and is essentially free DS for a bolter profession, so the precedent has already been set.
If the proposed arcane spell would require -10 Bolt AS in addition to -10 CS and -10 CMAN resolution, as I said, whatevs. Make it so.
-Sea Wizard
You reach into the cauldron and take out a silvery monogram rocket.
The cauldron raises up two of its legs and clasps them in victory.
<< 102 doesn't affect Bolt AS, and is essentially free DS for a bolter profession, so the precedent has already been set. >>
Spell 102 is intended to be used by spell casters for defense. There isn't necessarily any precedent being set here.
The real point that matters is this: what is the intent of the spell being designed? Which class of or specific professions is the spell intended to be used by? With this established, you can consider what balancing factors to include to support this intent.
If this spell is meant as additional defense for squares, including a penalty for squares doesn't make sense unless part of the intent is to create a choice. If you are intending to create a choice, then the choice must be significant. Otherwise, you end up with just another staple that everyone uses and you move the bar up slightly.
--
Naos
I'm immune to fire! Now with more banhammer! You sense the bond between you and your grey cat grow stronger.
Spell 102 is intended to be used by spell casters for defense. There isn't necessarily any precedent being set here.
The real point that matters is this: what is the intent of the spell being designed? Which class of or specific professions is the spell intended to be used by? With this established, you can consider what balancing factors to include to support this intent.
If this spell is meant as additional defense for squares, including a penalty for squares doesn't make sense unless part of the intent is to create a choice. If you are intending to create a choice, then the choice must be significant. Otherwise, you end up with just another staple that everyone uses and you move the bar up slightly.
--
Naos
I'm immune to fire! Now with more banhammer! You sense the bond between you and your grey cat grow stronger.
With that logic Quartz orbs and Small Statues whould be done away with immediately. Those Solid Moonstone Cubes also offer absolutely no drawbacks, so they too must meet with the axe.
This is the ARCANE circle. Not a player cast circle. Items here are finite. Short of Charge Item/Scroll Infusion, which can be blocked if the item is deemed too powerful, balance is achieved by scarcity of availability.
This is the ARCANE circle. Not a player cast circle. Items here are finite. Short of Charge Item/Scroll Infusion, which can be blocked if the item is deemed too powerful, balance is achieved by scarcity of availability.
