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"GS4-IXIX
HSN: ELR - 501 (Sleep) Updated on 08/27/2015 09:54 AM EDT #2292
Sleep, 501, has been updated for the ELR. A seed 1 summation of Elemental Lore, Air provides for a chance for the target to be groggy (-20 AS/DS and 2 second slow) when (or if!) they wake up. The grogginess lasts for 10 seconds.
That is all." -- Ixix
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So... same-same for Lullabye?
<<
So... same-same for Lullabye?
>>
Yes, you will also be seeing all of your spells Nerfed. Same as Wizards.
Say Goodbye to 1030 and 1035. (Unless you plan to 2x in 2 different lores.)
1012 will no longer be permablessed. 1014 will no longer provide elemental resistance.
The ELR is great, right?
So... same-same for Lullabye?
>>
Yes, you will also be seeing all of your spells Nerfed. Same as Wizards.
Say Goodbye to 1030 and 1035. (Unless you plan to 2x in 2 different lores.)
1012 will no longer be permablessed. 1014 will no longer provide elemental resistance.
The ELR is great, right?
<<
I would be delighted to be able to 2x in the Lores, since they're a hell of a lot cheaper than more Spell Research.
I agree that Disruption is overpowered as it stands, and I was using it from 30th on so I never really played with Tonis so small loss there.
>>
I think you midunderstood. You'll need to 2x both, but you can only 2x one of them. Sorry about your luck!
I would be delighted to be able to 2x in the Lores, since they're a hell of a lot cheaper than more Spell Research.
I agree that Disruption is overpowered as it stands, and I was using it from 30th on so I never really played with Tonis so small loss there.
>>
I think you midunderstood. You'll need to 2x both, but you can only 2x one of them. Sorry about your luck!
Arch, 1005 does keep the slow effect after the target is woken up.
ERKYY2
1012's 'permabless' is as a +10 non-flaring weapon, You want our plain ora weapon awesomeness? Really?
1035 already requires us to be fully trained (as far as we can go) in two lores for max effectiveness. And even AT that effectiveness, it's still worse than the current 506 proposal is for the post cap folks if you look at just those spells. Yes, I feel swinging a lance in 1 second is >>> swinging a short sword in 1 second. Sue me.
1030 is actually probably pretty close to immolate in overall effectiveness now. Better killing power against corporal mobs that aren't padded, worse killing power against non-corps, probably equal on things that lack eyes/necks. That isn't convenient to your argument though, so I'm sure you'll ignore it.
Anything else you want throw around?
Tal.
ERKYY2
1012's 'permabless' is as a +10 non-flaring weapon, You want our plain ora weapon awesomeness? Really?
1035 already requires us to be fully trained (as far as we can go) in two lores for max effectiveness. And even AT that effectiveness, it's still worse than the current 506 proposal is for the post cap folks if you look at just those spells. Yes, I feel swinging a lance in 1 second is >>> swinging a short sword in 1 second. Sue me.
1030 is actually probably pretty close to immolate in overall effectiveness now. Better killing power against corporal mobs that aren't padded, worse killing power against non-corps, probably equal on things that lack eyes/necks. That isn't convenient to your argument though, so I'm sure you'll ignore it.
Anything else you want throw around?
Tal.
<<1012's 'permabless' is as a +10 non-flaring weapon, You want our plain ora weapon awesomeness? Really?>>
If it comes with the air flares, sure. The flares are better than any other flare in the game.
<<1035 already requires us to be fully trained (as far as we can go) in two lores for max effectiveness. And even AT that effectiveness, it's still worse than the current 506 proposal is for the post cap folks if you look at just those spells. Yes, I feel swinging a lance in 1 second is >>> swinging a short sword in 1 second. Sue me.>>
With the propsed Haste changes, 1035 is by far a better spell. 175 mana for 5 minutes of GROUP HASTE, where Wizards will pay 186 mana for those 5 minutes. It's also cheaper to make that 10 minutes of GROUP HASTE for less mana. Wizards have to 2x Air lore for a 2 minute duration, you can 1x ML:T for that same duration.
If it comes with the air flares, sure. The flares are better than any other flare in the game.
<<1035 already requires us to be fully trained (as far as we can go) in two lores for max effectiveness. And even AT that effectiveness, it's still worse than the current 506 proposal is for the post cap folks if you look at just those spells. Yes, I feel swinging a lance in 1 second is >>> swinging a short sword in 1 second. Sue me.>>
With the propsed Haste changes, 1035 is by far a better spell. 175 mana for 5 minutes of GROUP HASTE, where Wizards will pay 186 mana for those 5 minutes. It's also cheaper to make that 10 minutes of GROUP HASTE for less mana. Wizards have to 2x Air lore for a 2 minute duration, you can 1x ML:T for that same duration.
Against undead sonic weapons are non-flaring, that means there are no flares. When I say plain ora, I mean plain. We are better off with a blessed imflass weapon against undead by almost every metric.
And yes, for raw duration (and group effect) 1035 is better. But you realize the average level 35 bard gets all of -1 second on it yeah? And that even swinging bards your level (I believe it to be 70) get a whole -2 seconds? The effect is MUCH weaker than haste for your average solo hunter.
Tal.
And yes, for raw duration (and group effect) 1035 is better. But you realize the average level 35 bard gets all of -1 second on it yeah? And that even swinging bards your level (I believe it to be 70) get a whole -2 seconds? The effect is MUCH weaker than haste for your average solo hunter.
Tal.
<<And yes, for raw duration (and group effect) 1035 is better. But you realize the average level 35 bard gets all of -1 second on it yeah? And that even swinging bards your level (I believe it to be 70) get a whole -2 seconds? The effect is MUCH weaker than haste for your average solo hunter.>>
The trade off is that you also get dodge.
We may get an extra -1s RT, but you get 20 ranks of dodge.
By level 70ish, you get the same RT, plus dodge. And now with the haste nerf, it's going to cost you less mana for greater/more benefits. I would also say Bards are less in need of the RT reduction due to AS, where a Warmage build has far, far less AS and relies on that RT reduction.
The trade off is that you also get dodge.
We may get an extra -1s RT, but you get 20 ranks of dodge.
By level 70ish, you get the same RT, plus dodge. And now with the haste nerf, it's going to cost you less mana for greater/more benefits. I would also say Bards are less in need of the RT reduction due to AS, where a Warmage build has far, far less AS and relies on that RT reduction.
<<Why you gotta bring bards into all this? We're sitting over here, quietly, not making a fuss. DON'T TAKE OUR SPELLS!>>
Don't worry, I guess GM's are too afraid to respond to me pointing it out. So I'm guessing they're glossing over your overpowered spells during their Wizard Nerfing spree.
Don't worry, I guess GM's are too afraid to respond to me pointing it out. So I'm guessing they're glossing over your overpowered spells during their Wizard Nerfing spree.
Bards cannot get -4 seconds RT. Period. Ever. No bard will EVER have the same RT reduction that you have enjoyed since having 24 ranks of air lore + 51 ranks in major elemental.
I'm with Japh though. If your asking why a swinging class gets more spell support for swinging than a pure does your asking the wrong question in general, but it is especially being asked in the wrong folder. I'm sympathetic to what you all are going through. But this isn't the place for venting about it.
Tal.
I'm with Japh though. If your asking why a swinging class gets more spell support for swinging than a pure does your asking the wrong question in general, but it is especially being asked in the wrong folder. I'm sympathetic to what you all are going through. But this isn't the place for venting about it.
Tal.
I was talking about Bard spells, until you flipped the conversation around.
"If your asking why a swinging class gets more spell support for swinging than a pure does your asking the wrong question in general, but it is especially being asked in the wrong folder."
Why does your "swinging-class" get a massively overpowered magical spell like 1030?
You know, I was joking when I said you would probably skip the fact that immolate is roughly as effective (on average) as 1030 because it wasn't convenient for you. I didn't think you actually would ignore it... oh well.
Argue about how swings that take twice as long (but with +15 DS!!!) is so vastly superior all you like. I'm done engaging.
Tal.
Argue about how swings that take twice as long (but with +15 DS!!!) is so vastly superior all you like. I'm done engaging.
Tal.
Disruption/1030 is overpowered. Particularly as the Lores were implemented. It's too easy to get to the cheaper version/single-target for half the mana.
With that said, Banshee's Wail/1008 is too weak. The Lore implementation is... tepid, compared to Disruption.
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If the lower-level spell were to ramp up slightly in power--including possibly a Lore and/or MOC component, a la splashy ball spells--while the upper-level spell were to ramp down somewhat, they would each make more sense.
With that said, Banshee's Wail/1008 is too weak. The Lore implementation is... tepid, compared to Disruption.
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If the lower-level spell were to ramp up slightly in power--including possibly a Lore and/or MOC component, a la splashy ball spells--while the upper-level spell were to ramp down somewhat, they would each make more sense.
Krakii, if immolates explanation is any indication increasing how lethal 1008 is would require us to lose out on the disabling aspect of it. I don't think that is a fair thing to ask of our swinging brethren. Especially since they typically don't see the same success with 1005 that those of us who 1x+ spellsongs do.
Tal.
Tal.
