First, and foremost, I want to start out saying how much I'm loving being back in the lands. I'm one of those old players, returning with a F2P account, and so far, it's been absolutely wonderful. I wanted to post with a couple of thoughts on the free-to-play accounts, their restrictions, and my suggestions on what could be improved with them.
1. I love that's it's free, and there's absolutely no need for any form of payment (credit card, debit card, checking account, paypal, etc.) account needed to even create the F2P account. The only time you have to enter any sort of payment info is if you are going to buy SimuCoins. +1 for awesomeness.
2. You can play any race, any profession. +1 for awesomeness.
3. You start out in a random town, and aren't told about the "depositing silver here makes this your home bank". -1 for not-awesome. (I've seen others talking about this, and are hoping that you're looking into at least giving some sort of warning about the initial deposit for F2P characters. Put it in big, bold highlighted text, so we can't miss it, please!)
4. F2P characters still gen with a travel guide token. Woot! +1 for awesomeness.
5. No access to Lumnis. Ehh.. this will probably hurt worse, once my character gains more levels. At level 3, currently, it isn't hurting at all. I'm still gaining levels at a decent rate (for my style of play), and I'm enjoying it greatly. +/-0, to be changed later, most likely.
6. Not being able to cast my useful spells on other characters... Okay, so I only have access to 101, 103, and 202 currently, but not being able to even cast 103 & 202 on others is kind of sad, and a little annoying. If I'm going to be sitting on this mana, that I'm not using to hunt yet, what good is it (except for spelling myself up, but I'm already at my 2-hour spelltime cap!). -1 for not-so-awesome.
Now, for suggestions, based on what I've already experienced, and what I know will be coming up in future levels/times:
1. Remove the experience restrictions from higher levels. Keep Lumins for paying customers, because that makes sense. Keep fixskills for paying (and Adv. Guild) customers, for all I care. But, with the grind already there without Lumnis, any sort of experience reduction at higher levels just seems horrendous.
2. Add that warning in for the initial deposit of silvers into any bank account! Big, bold, highlighted, whatever you need to get the attention of the player, that this is a BIG CHOICE AND CAN'T BE CHANGED WITHOUT SIMUCOINS LATER.
3. Removing the cast/receiving penalty for F2P characters... there's a LOT more paying customers/characters out there than there are F2P customers so far, and once in a while us F2P'ers really want to do something useful (and social) for our community!
That's about it, for now. As I said earlier, for my play style, this has been, and is going to continue to be, fun, I think. I'm really enjoying just being in the lands again. Thank you Simu, and to the GM's, GH's, and Mentors, and especially to the Landing community, for welcoming all of us F2P'ers (both old-timers and newbies) into the lands! :)
(Also: I'm not caring much about loot/silvers right now, so that's why there's nothing on my lists about it. Maybe later, when I try to get 4x equipment, it may be a small problem, but I've got plenty of time between now and then to save up the little amounts of silvers I get off of pelts.)
(Also also: Anyone who knew Cylnthia the Paladin, that's me... I'm playing Lyquitta, the cleric, now. :))
F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/13/2015 09:19 PM CDT
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/14/2015 02:16 AM CDT
>2. Add that warning in for the initial deposit of silvers into any bank account! Big, bold, highlighted, whatever you need to get the attention of the player, that this is a BIG CHOICE AND CAN'T BE CHANGED WITHOUT SIMUCOINS LATER.
This has been implemented. A big bold warning should now pop up to make sure new players know that depositing into a bank sets your account there.
>Removing the cast/receiving penalty for F2P characters
I've seen mention of a spell receiving penalty for F2P characters a few times, so I should probably note that there are no restrictions on subscribers casting spells on F2P players. The only restriction is F2P casting upon subscribers.
Coase
This has been implemented. A big bold warning should now pop up to make sure new players know that depositing into a bank sets your account there.
>Removing the cast/receiving penalty for F2P characters
I've seen mention of a spell receiving penalty for F2P characters a few times, so I should probably note that there are no restrictions on subscribers casting spells on F2P players. The only restriction is F2P casting upon subscribers.
Coase
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/14/2015 04:10 AM CDT
Asa new player I think most of the restrictions are mostly fair, however the bank account moving one seems really oddly restrictive compared to everything else as does the fact that you buy increases by 100,000 rather than just having a more expensive one time purchase to completely unlimit the bank account.
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/14/2015 10:49 AM CDT
Wonderful news on the initial deposit warning. Thanks to you, GMs, for implementing that so quickly!
For the spell penalty, I understand that subscribers can cast all they want on F2P characters, and F2P characters can cast on other F2P characters... it's the F2P casting on subscribing characters that gets me. As I said, most of the population is subscribing characters, still, and being able to cast defensive spells (past 101, 401, 1204) on subscriber characters would be really useful, community-building, socializing, etc. for us. Maybe limit the list to the more common defensive spells (101, 103, 107, 202, 401, 406, 414, 503, 509, 1204), and if you want to limit even more, maybe just the defensives from the minor circles (101, 103, 107, 401, 406, 414, 1204)... but, open it up a bit, so F2P'ers can give a bit more. :)
Thanks, in general, for the update, Coase. It's appreciated!
For the spell penalty, I understand that subscribers can cast all they want on F2P characters, and F2P characters can cast on other F2P characters... it's the F2P casting on subscribing characters that gets me. As I said, most of the population is subscribing characters, still, and being able to cast defensive spells (past 101, 401, 1204) on subscriber characters would be really useful, community-building, socializing, etc. for us. Maybe limit the list to the more common defensive spells (101, 103, 107, 202, 401, 406, 414, 503, 509, 1204), and if you want to limit even more, maybe just the defensives from the minor circles (101, 103, 107, 401, 406, 414, 1204)... but, open it up a bit, so F2P'ers can give a bit more. :)
Thanks, in general, for the update, Coase. It's appreciated!
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/14/2015 10:50 AM CDT
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/14/2015 11:36 AM CDT
I would like to think the biggest draw of Simu-games is the players. Sure, the created environment is pretty cool, but without the cast, the backdrop means nothing.
A couple of months ago I complained about something and it was fixed to my liking. I would place my complaint in the "stupid" category, it wasn't really big or important. But at least it was considered and approached from a different angle than what I suggested. However, it did fix the scenario I had an issue with.
A couple of people have voice complaints and those have been fixed. I really think that Simu is very responsive to player feedback, however, no matter how responsive you are, you can't say "yes" all the time. I think I have seen GMs and such lament some flaws and the inability to fix them in a way that does justice.
Magarven the Mad
A couple of months ago I complained about something and it was fixed to my liking. I would place my complaint in the "stupid" category, it wasn't really big or important. But at least it was considered and approached from a different angle than what I suggested. However, it did fix the scenario I had an issue with.
A couple of people have voice complaints and those have been fixed. I really think that Simu is very responsive to player feedback, however, no matter how responsive you are, you can't say "yes" all the time. I think I have seen GMs and such lament some flaws and the inability to fix them in a way that does justice.
Magarven the Mad
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/14/2015 01:31 PM CDT
So, with respect to the new F2P folks, is there anything like a one-time purchase that permanently grants the character certain benefits that are otherwise currently purchased on a monthly or quarterly basis?
Does it even make sense to do something like that, particularly with respect to the concerns about abuse?
If a package does exist, what sort of things are in it? If not, what would a package look like? Would it be Bank account limits, society participation? What sort of things would be helpful to supporting pure roleplay, as opposed to supporting leveling up?
Clunk
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/14/2015 02:04 PM CDT
There should definitely be packages, even if they're only 30 days at a time
Money Package: remove financial restrictions
Exp Package: normalized EXP absorption and give XXX
Magic Package: remove all magical restrictions
Society Package: remove all society, guild, etc restrictions
Price 'em at $5 each. Done.
Money Package: remove financial restrictions
Exp Package: normalized EXP absorption and give XXX
Magic Package: remove all magical restrictions
Society Package: remove all society, guild, etc restrictions
Price 'em at $5 each. Done.
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/14/2015 02:13 PM CDT
>> There should definitely be packages, even if they're only 30 days at a time
This. I would much rather sometimes plunk my roll of quarters on the counter to pay for the package deal and then not have to worry about it for the next month vs. having to constantly keep running out and putting another quarters in the meter.
-- Robert
"Wyrom isn't interacting with me, I think he is AFK scripting."
This. I would much rather sometimes plunk my roll of quarters on the counter to pay for the package deal and then not have to worry about it for the next month vs. having to constantly keep running out and putting another quarters in the meter.
-- Robert
"Wyrom isn't interacting with me, I think he is AFK scripting."
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/14/2015 04:32 PM CDT
I started my trial account a few days before f2p came to GS and, unfortunately, the change was immediately noticeable and rather dismaying. I can get into the specifics, if it's desirable, but I upgraded to basic within a day or two because the experience was that disappointing to me. Had I not been a DR player already and not enjoyed my trial before the conversion, I'm not at all sure I would have bothered to stay.
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/14/2015 05:52 PM CDT
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/14/2015 07:35 PM CDT
"From a player who returned recently to one who's new- trust me, it's worth the $15 a month/"
"It is not meant to be a full game experience -- think of it as a demo. - Wyrom"
I am a player who returned for F2P after being gone for 2+ years. I returned because it was free. I would not have returned if the only option was $15 a month. I think people are looking past the fact that it was advertised as FREE TO PLAY and that's what people expect/want.
Having said that, I don't have an issue with most of the restrictions. I'm fine with an experience boost pass, I'm fine with a treasure boost pass (even though treasure as a whole is dysfunctional so I don't see a pass making it any better), I'm fine with the lumnis pass, the casting passes (because they have to protect against free spellbots), the gear passes. I understand why many of the restrictions were put in place.
However, there are restrictions I do not understand, and am frustrated by, especially the banking restrictions. The combination of restrictions, also make it less likely that I'll ever invest in those options. If I can only have a maximum of 100k silvers, there is no reason to buy a treasure boost pass. (I'm not willing to pay $1 for each extra 100k.) If I can only have 1 active bank account, or be forced to pay $1 to move it, I'm not likely to buy a treasure boost pass if I move to another town to hunt. (Because I'm not willing to pay $1 each time I change a town.) To me, it reinforces the fact that I should pay another player cash for gear instead, and skip the expensive hassle that you've designed.
My final disappointment lies with the society pass. A society is a basic part of your character. I also disagree with Auchand in the fact that it's not needed, the game is designed with those bonuses in mind. It may be possible to get by without them, but it's more difficult and there is enough difficulty built into the F2P account already. I would be willing to make a one time purchase for a reasonable amount, if I decided to stick around, but if the only choice is a recurring payment, I'll do without, and if hunting becomes too difficult, I'll probably just stop playing.
Other random responses:
"Nothing is a requirement though. - Wyrom"
The bank account transfer is a requirement if you ever intend to leave the town where your bank is located!
"It is not meant to be a full game experience -- think of it as a demo. - Wyrom"
I am a player who returned for F2P after being gone for 2+ years. I returned because it was free. I would not have returned if the only option was $15 a month. I think people are looking past the fact that it was advertised as FREE TO PLAY and that's what people expect/want.
Having said that, I don't have an issue with most of the restrictions. I'm fine with an experience boost pass, I'm fine with a treasure boost pass (even though treasure as a whole is dysfunctional so I don't see a pass making it any better), I'm fine with the lumnis pass, the casting passes (because they have to protect against free spellbots), the gear passes. I understand why many of the restrictions were put in place.
However, there are restrictions I do not understand, and am frustrated by, especially the banking restrictions. The combination of restrictions, also make it less likely that I'll ever invest in those options. If I can only have a maximum of 100k silvers, there is no reason to buy a treasure boost pass. (I'm not willing to pay $1 for each extra 100k.) If I can only have 1 active bank account, or be forced to pay $1 to move it, I'm not likely to buy a treasure boost pass if I move to another town to hunt. (Because I'm not willing to pay $1 each time I change a town.) To me, it reinforces the fact that I should pay another player cash for gear instead, and skip the expensive hassle that you've designed.
My final disappointment lies with the society pass. A society is a basic part of your character. I also disagree with Auchand in the fact that it's not needed, the game is designed with those bonuses in mind. It may be possible to get by without them, but it's more difficult and there is enough difficulty built into the F2P account already. I would be willing to make a one time purchase for a reasonable amount, if I decided to stick around, but if the only choice is a recurring payment, I'll do without, and if hunting becomes too difficult, I'll probably just stop playing.
Other random responses:
"Nothing is a requirement though. - Wyrom"
The bank account transfer is a requirement if you ever intend to leave the town where your bank is located!
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/14/2015 07:58 PM CDT
Let's narrow this society thing down.
Which society? If it's not CoL you are probably taking into your late teens or 20s to mmaster. Voln tends to require hoarding favor. The +5 in gos is around rank 8 then critical weighting and damage is 16ish.
Is the society more of a growth concern into the 25-30 experience then onward?
Are their role play and character angles in one of them? If CoL I'm skeptical cause people are afraid of the evil soul angles.
Is it the mission and training part of it?
Or is it purely mechanical in that you are factoring the +35 or +27 or +15 and hcw as must haves?
F2p allows for membership so the role play aspect is covered. You are all genins for life like Naruto was or something.
I think a constructive discussion might get some consideration. Maybe they open it to rank 8 then restrict them allowing the first AS/DS equivalents but I think reasoning has to prove it.
Which society? If it's not CoL you are probably taking into your late teens or 20s to mmaster. Voln tends to require hoarding favor. The +5 in gos is around rank 8 then critical weighting and damage is 16ish.
Is the society more of a growth concern into the 25-30 experience then onward?
Are their role play and character angles in one of them? If CoL I'm skeptical cause people are afraid of the evil soul angles.
Is it the mission and training part of it?
Or is it purely mechanical in that you are factoring the +35 or +27 or +15 and hcw as must haves?
F2p allows for membership so the role play aspect is covered. You are all genins for life like Naruto was or something.
I think a constructive discussion might get some consideration. Maybe they open it to rank 8 then restrict them allowing the first AS/DS equivalents but I think reasoning has to prove it.
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/14/2015 08:51 PM CDT
>>It may be possible to get by without them, but it's more difficult and there is enough difficulty built into the F2P account already
It's not only possible, it's expected. It even has to be now - at the rate people are flipping societies these days. Should be one and done, and it should scale with the game where it's not even an option until 50 trainings.
So, I agree with those who see it as a convenience.
Fortunately the banking experience has been addressed. Like having things done!
Doug
It's not only possible, it's expected. It even has to be now - at the rate people are flipping societies these days. Should be one and done, and it should scale with the game where it's not even an option until 50 trainings.
So, I agree with those who see it as a convenience.
Fortunately the banking experience has been addressed. Like having things done!
Doug
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/14/2015 09:40 PM CDT
Its optional but harder, but it wasn't always optional. Way back when the first society came out and there was limited critters, you literally could not kill the critters as some classes. The critters were setup with the group in mind. Pumas were released after a lot of outcry as a stopgap measure while further development took place. I think its ok to switch from one to another, but with the caveat of burning your bridges and not being allowed to return to a group.
By the way a bit of Trivia, the coder for COL was the guy who created the Wizardry boxed game back in the day. He did the first few iterations anyways. Back then games were often completely created by one person. Heck, I'll bet even Gemstone 2 only had a few coders at first... Now one Icon on your desktop probably takes up as much memory as an entire game did back in the day. Atari 2600 had 4k of memory and there was some type of bank select trick they used to double the game cartridges to a whopping 8k.
By the way a bit of Trivia, the coder for COL was the guy who created the Wizardry boxed game back in the day. He did the first few iterations anyways. Back then games were often completely created by one person. Heck, I'll bet even Gemstone 2 only had a few coders at first... Now one Icon on your desktop probably takes up as much memory as an entire game did back in the day. Atari 2600 had 4k of memory and there was some type of bank select trick they used to double the game cartridges to a whopping 8k.
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/15/2015 12:37 AM CDT
>3. You start out in a random town, and aren't told about the "depositing silver here makes this your home bank". -1 for not-awesome. (I've seen others talking about this, and are hoping that you're looking into at least giving some sort of warning about the initial deposit for F2P characters. Put it in big, bold highlighted text, so we can't miss it, please!)
I also have an update going into the sprite quest(s). I've added a notice to let players know that it will set their home bank if they go ahead and deposit their coins. This will go in shortly!
~ Haliste ~
The Forest Gnome of Silverwood Manor
I also have an update going into the sprite quest(s). I've added a notice to let players know that it will set their home bank if they go ahead and deposit their coins. This will go in shortly!
~ Haliste ~
The Forest Gnome of Silverwood Manor
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/19/2015 10:35 AM CDT
A week-ish later... and, I'm still enjoying my F2P cleric so very much. I finally have a spell that can be useful to other people (203, Manna Bread), woot! Punching rat's brains out is still fun as heck, and the cleric is just about level 5, so I'll be moving into 2x gear, maybe even today! I'm having so much fun, being in the Lands again, seeing old faces (some of them Legendary, in fact!), and meeting new faces (both new-to-me, and new-to-the-lands). Yay for F2P options!
Lyquitta, Cleric of Kuon
(Previously: Cylnthia, Paladin of Kuon)
Lyquitta, Cleric of Kuon
(Previously: Cylnthia, Paladin of Kuon)
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/19/2015 04:24 PM CDT
<<There should definitely be packages, even if they're only 30 days at a time
Money Package: remove financial restrictions
Exp Package: normalized EXP absorption and give XXX
Magic Package: remove all magical restrictions
Society Package: remove all society, guild, etc restrictions
Price 'em at $5 each. Done.>>
I'm thinking this simplifies a lot of the perception and confusion on the Simucoin perks myself too. Allereli has done an awesome job of capturing all of this on the GSWiki. I know staff is watching this closely too.
The Magic Spell pass is only 15 minutes. I'd also review the 3 hour passes and make them 30 days or introduce a 7 day option to lower some of these packs from 3 choices to two. I think that some of this is a test and is planned anyways personally.
I'd then buy a 30 day Treasure boost for $4.50, a society pass for $2.50, Locker access for 2.00, and occasional spell passes (if they were longer) to average about $9 a month base followed by some occasionally $2.50 or 4.00 purchases here and there depending on how much I was playing.
As it is now I'm investing on average over $100 monthly without intent to have a f2p account, but I see value here.
Money Package: remove financial restrictions
Exp Package: normalized EXP absorption and give XXX
Magic Package: remove all magical restrictions
Society Package: remove all society, guild, etc restrictions
Price 'em at $5 each. Done.>>
I'm thinking this simplifies a lot of the perception and confusion on the Simucoin perks myself too. Allereli has done an awesome job of capturing all of this on the GSWiki. I know staff is watching this closely too.
The Magic Spell pass is only 15 minutes. I'd also review the 3 hour passes and make them 30 days or introduce a 7 day option to lower some of these packs from 3 choices to two. I think that some of this is a test and is planned anyways personally.
I'd then buy a 30 day Treasure boost for $4.50, a society pass for $2.50, Locker access for 2.00, and occasional spell passes (if they were longer) to average about $9 a month base followed by some occasionally $2.50 or 4.00 purchases here and there depending on how much I was playing.
As it is now I'm investing on average over $100 monthly without intent to have a f2p account, but I see value here.
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/19/2015 05:38 PM CDT
<There should definitely be packages, even if they're only 30 days at a time
Even better than having premade bundles would be to allow us to create a package we like and have it saved to show up on our simucoin store page. The ability to set it up once with exactly the temporary buffs we want and no more would be a huge convenience upgrade.
Re: F2P Reactions - Positive & Negative Remarks on 03/19/2015 07:53 PM CDT
good suggestions for prices and durations, the store is pretty unruly. f2p/freemium models are all about ease of access. I know it was brought up before but not being able to purchase or use simucoins direct from the game is a huge detriment. Also look at things like the chronomage orbs. There's what, 5? 6? store items exclusively for chronomage orbs which are basically the same thing. Honestly I'd suggest revamping the chronomage orb system entirely and make it function how the premium transport works. Just 1 item that replaces the ticket you normally get to enter the premium transport room and you enter the appropriate portal for your destination, sell them in 1/2/x size packages. Obviously at discounts for the larger batches. I'd also wager offering bargains for said items during storyline events, etc. would be beneficial for the bottom line.
"Tales of elemental upheaval in ta'illistim, buy your 2 pack of fast travel vouchers today and follow the action and then whisk back to wherever you call home! 50% off if you buy before the fire tornado of doom hits!"
removing some of the horribly draconian things f2p accounts are charged for, in general, and putting more QOL improvements / vanity items in is the right direction. As it stands now it's so focused on preventing the system from being "abused" by existing players it becomes simply unappealing for many net new players (new new and returning new.) Some people are going to milk it and not pay, you write that off as "breakage" and move on. (finally, breakage in GS)
I'd go as far as to say basically the entirety of premium point benefits could easily be made available via simucoin with some caveats (only XXXX points per year per account for subscribers, f2p characters have to be X level to purchase a particular item, etc.) You can remove the weighting / padding / enchanting / flaring to avoid p2w complaints but the ez scripts, type ahead lines, GALD, tattoos (not sure why these are plat only), etc.
all the adv guild items (TEMP flares, enhancive charging, etc.) would be handy additions, something similar to the weapon bonding potions in DR...etc. Visitor visas for fwi! Entrance to the grounds but obviously can't get any premium merchant work done, shops not open for you, etc. but if you need that armor assessed / item sung to / healed and no one is around you could meet them there perhaps. Maybe it just drops them outside of the town proper entirely. But let the riff raff gaze upon the majesty of our ivory tower, er...island.
"Tales of elemental upheaval in ta'illistim, buy your 2 pack of fast travel vouchers today and follow the action and then whisk back to wherever you call home! 50% off if you buy before the fire tornado of doom hits!"
removing some of the horribly draconian things f2p accounts are charged for, in general, and putting more QOL improvements / vanity items in is the right direction. As it stands now it's so focused on preventing the system from being "abused" by existing players it becomes simply unappealing for many net new players (new new and returning new.) Some people are going to milk it and not pay, you write that off as "breakage" and move on. (finally, breakage in GS)
I'd go as far as to say basically the entirety of premium point benefits could easily be made available via simucoin with some caveats (only XXXX points per year per account for subscribers, f2p characters have to be X level to purchase a particular item, etc.) You can remove the weighting / padding / enchanting / flaring to avoid p2w complaints but the ez scripts, type ahead lines, GALD, tattoos (not sure why these are plat only), etc.
all the adv guild items (TEMP flares, enhancive charging, etc.) would be handy additions, something similar to the weapon bonding potions in DR...etc. Visitor visas for fwi! Entrance to the grounds but obviously can't get any premium merchant work done, shops not open for you, etc. but if you need that armor assessed / item sung to / healed and no one is around you could meet them there perhaps. Maybe it just drops them outside of the town proper entirely. But let the riff raff gaze upon the majesty of our ivory tower, er...island.