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~Aulis
Forums Manager
QC'er
This might work. Certainly more details would help unless of course you want us to set the guidelines for the F2P offering.
I would imagine that the F2P model would follow most other games. Level-limiting, money-limiting, locker space limits. Events would still be P2P as would premium and platinum.
I would imagine that the F2P model would follow most other games. Level-limiting, money-limiting, locker space limits. Events would still be P2P as would premium and platinum.
<<I would imagine that the F2P model would follow most other games. Level-limiting, money-limiting, locker space limits. Events would still be P2P as would premium and platinum.>>
Basically correct, for the most part. Also, since someone has already mentioned something along these lines, this is for new accounts only. Existing accounts (current or reactivating) cannot downgrade to F2P status. (Please also note that you cannot transfer characters to a F2P account.)
Solomon
Basically correct, for the most part. Also, since someone has already mentioned something along these lines, this is for new accounts only. Existing accounts (current or reactivating) cannot downgrade to F2P status. (Please also note that you cannot transfer characters to a F2P account.)
Solomon
I hope that as essentially the 1st MUD and having the largest player base in that time as one of the most popular we see a big lift outside of Aardwolf, which is free, because we can pull in so many old players who want to return free.
Active online for MUDs - Daily average
#1 - Aardwolf - 298 last 30 days.
#2 - Dragonrealms - 252 last 30 days.
#3 - Gemstone IV - 160 last 30 days.
#4 - Achea - 143 last 30 days.
#5 - New Worlds: Ateeran - 114 in last 30 days
#6 - Alter Aeon - 79 in last 30 days
#7 - Materia Magica - 72 in last 30 days
It goes into the 40s after this. This is a highly delicate approach. I didn't think ftp was worth the 50 connected players in comparison to Aardwolf (We normally average closer to Dragonrealms so I think this is not a rolling 30 day average)
More players should translate into just more everything is the belief I guess.
-J
Active online for MUDs - Daily average
#1 - Aardwolf - 298 last 30 days.
#2 - Dragonrealms - 252 last 30 days.
#3 - Gemstone IV - 160 last 30 days.
#4 - Achea - 143 last 30 days.
#5 - New Worlds: Ateeran - 114 in last 30 days
#6 - Alter Aeon - 79 in last 30 days
#7 - Materia Magica - 72 in last 30 days
It goes into the 40s after this. This is a highly delicate approach. I didn't think ftp was worth the 50 connected players in comparison to Aardwolf (We normally average closer to Dragonrealms so I think this is not a rolling 30 day average)
More players should translate into just more everything is the belief I guess.
-J
IF F2P is successful, will we see a drop in subscription prices? I really feel like this will encourage people to sign up for a full benefit account.
You abruptly say, "I'd rather be eaten by a vathor than deal with a cuddly gnome."
Speaking knowingly to you, Rozy exclaims, "Am bet are good at snuggles, and cuddles and smoochifications!"
AIM: LadyViridian
You abruptly say, "I'd rather be eaten by a vathor than deal with a cuddly gnome."
Speaking knowingly to you, Rozy exclaims, "Am bet are good at snuggles, and cuddles and smoochifications!"
AIM: LadyViridian
<<Can not F2P accounts buy Experience Boosters please?>>
Nothing they will be able to purchase with raise their abilities higher than a paying subscriber. In regards to Experience, subscribers numbers will always be better than a F2P player even with a running booster.
Breathe in, breathe out. It'll be ok!
Solomon
Nothing they will be able to purchase with raise their abilities higher than a paying subscriber. In regards to Experience, subscribers numbers will always be better than a F2P player even with a running booster.
Breathe in, breathe out. It'll be ok!
Solomon
I'm very excited about this and glad to see this offered. I think this will be a great hook to get more new people playing and will let them play long enough to get a better taste of what Gemstone is about. I know over on /r/mud on reddit a lot of the hesitance to join or even try is the need for a credit card and the lack of ability to play beyond 30 days for free. I hope to see more people running around soon!
--
arulisse.tumblr.com
--
arulisse.tumblr.com
Questions:
1. As a premium subscriber, can I also have a F2P character under a different account name? I have a blog about GS4 and want to update my current review with both methods of play. I would expect all the restrictions of F2P on this account. Since I am premium, I have no real need of another character, I just want the RL experience for a review.
2. Can a F2P account be upgraded to prime, premium, and/or plat by payment or does the player have to start over?
3. Can F2P characters travel freely to all towns?
4. Do F2P characters have any equipment limitations?
5. Since silvers are limited to F2P characters, could the price of wraps and other unarmed combat equipment be considered for a price reduction in all locations, for all players? As I understand it, wraps and such are 10,000-15,000 silver in the Landing and that is a pretty big chunk of change (for mundane items, anyway) relative to what a F2P character can have in the bank.
Magarven the Mad
1. As a premium subscriber, can I also have a F2P character under a different account name? I have a blog about GS4 and want to update my current review with both methods of play. I would expect all the restrictions of F2P on this account. Since I am premium, I have no real need of another character, I just want the RL experience for a review.
2. Can a F2P account be upgraded to prime, premium, and/or plat by payment or does the player have to start over?
3. Can F2P characters travel freely to all towns?
4. Do F2P characters have any equipment limitations?
5. Since silvers are limited to F2P characters, could the price of wraps and other unarmed combat equipment be considered for a price reduction in all locations, for all players? As I understand it, wraps and such are 10,000-15,000 silver in the Landing and that is a pretty big chunk of change (for mundane items, anyway) relative to what a F2P character can have in the bank.
Magarven the Mad
>>1. As a premium subscriber, can I also have a F2P character under a different account name? I have a blog about GS4 and want to update my current review with both methods of play. I would expect all the restrictions of F2P on this account. Since I am premium, I have no real need of another character, I just want the RL experience for a review.
Yes, that shouldn't be a problem.
>>2. Can a F2P account be upgraded to prime, premium, and/or plat by payment or does the player have to start over?
Upgrading from a F2P subscription to a Prime, Premium, or Platinum account is definitely an option. You'll retain all your experience and inventory. There are just no plans to be able to downgrade.
>>3. Can F2P characters travel freely to all towns?
We will have some towns that are for our subscribers to help our demographics. Mist Harbor will remain Premium only for obvious reasons.
>>4. Do F2P characters have any equipment limitations?
Clarify what you mean here for me?
>>5. Since silvers are limited to F2P characters, could the price of wraps and other unarmed combat equipment be considered for a price reduction in all locations, for all players? As I understand it, wraps and such are 10,000-15,000 silver in the Landing and that is a pretty big chunk of change (for mundane items, anyway) relative to what a F2P character can have in the bank.
If we need to adjust some prices for items in game, that's certainly feasible. We'll have to see where the issues might be.
~Wyrom, APM
>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean
Yes, that shouldn't be a problem.
>>2. Can a F2P account be upgraded to prime, premium, and/or plat by payment or does the player have to start over?
Upgrading from a F2P subscription to a Prime, Premium, or Platinum account is definitely an option. You'll retain all your experience and inventory. There are just no plans to be able to downgrade.
>>3. Can F2P characters travel freely to all towns?
We will have some towns that are for our subscribers to help our demographics. Mist Harbor will remain Premium only for obvious reasons.
>>4. Do F2P characters have any equipment limitations?
Clarify what you mean here for me?
>>5. Since silvers are limited to F2P characters, could the price of wraps and other unarmed combat equipment be considered for a price reduction in all locations, for all players? As I understand it, wraps and such are 10,000-15,000 silver in the Landing and that is a pretty big chunk of change (for mundane items, anyway) relative to what a F2P character can have in the bank.
If we need to adjust some prices for items in game, that's certainly feasible. We'll have to see where the issues might be.
~Wyrom, APM
>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean
Thanks for the quick answers Wyrom.
Let me rephrase the equipment limitation question, because it was horrible.
F2P characters are restricted in the amount of silvers they can have. Was this silver amount sanity checked against shop inventories? Can a F2P reasonably obtain standard off the shelf 4x items without obtaining a boost via the simucoin store?
Magarven the Mad
Let me rephrase the equipment limitation question, because it was horrible.
F2P characters are restricted in the amount of silvers they can have. Was this silver amount sanity checked against shop inventories? Can a F2P reasonably obtain standard off the shelf 4x items without obtaining a boost via the simucoin store?
Magarven the Mad
This is really an awesome move, and I applaud SIMU and the players for resolving to make this work.
I do have a concern about EXP absorption rates though. Frankly, GS's leveling progression is already grossly out of touch with the genre (and consequently the expectations of new players). That's not a point of strength for new people in this game (though clearly it's a point of strength for long-term investment).
This also flies in the face of every psychological study of gaming "enagagement" (read: addiction) ever done. You keep players by giving them a series of short-term rewards early on and then start spreading them out to retain them. If we want to keep new players- tinkering with the EXP absorption rates is going to hamper the process, not aid it.
I disagree. I think the EXP growth rate at low levels is already way too high. The early levels go very, very fast compared to years gone by. The game was built to offer a lot of fun in those early levels one through ten, but now those levels go by in days, rather than months. While I understand the appeal of faster EXP absorption and the "hook" factor...it comes at a price to the overall health and robustness of the gaming community. It doesn't mean there aren't plenty of short-term rewards, it just means that those rewards will be valued differently. For example, perhaps to new F2P players reaching 10th level, and being able to hold vultite, will once again mean something. Perhaps reaching lord or lady will once again bring a feeling of excitement and accomplishment.
I simply don't feel the game's leveling progression is 'out of touch' in any way, shape or form. Tinkering with F2P absorption rates seems like an appropriate way to keep the influx of new players from throwing the balance of the game too far out of whack. If we're going to see a return to the "old days" I think it may be a prudent move to put the brakes on a bit.
~ GtG
I simply don't feel the game's leveling progression is 'out of touch' in any way, shape or form. Tinkering with F2P absorption rates seems like an appropriate way to keep the influx of new players from throwing the balance of the game too far out of whack. If we're going to see a return to the "old days" I think it may be a prudent move to put the brakes on a bit.
~ GtG
1. Will it be possible for a F2P account to upgrade to regular subscription easily, AND revert the changes? (I'm assuming not, but clarification is a good thing)
2. I'd like to address the elephant in the room, and point out that the lich chat feature is a really good resource for new players, even with all its warts. Is it possible for there to be a strictly OOC method of communication above the mentors and GMs (who are bound to get burnt out with even a fraction of the AOL-like hordes descending upon us) that gets passed to new players? If it's not lich, then I'd suggest some other form... but lets face it: without lich, the daily tedium of the game would not be as enjoyable for the casual player.
3. Will there be a way to give more tangible rewards to the good role-players we might attract with this? "You've been nominated by Lord So-n-So for excellent roleplaying! As your reward you can choose A. accelerated learning for 1 week, B. A free broadsword! C. A larger locker for 1 week."
Just tossing ideas out.
Malikh runs around in little circles, nodding his head so that the wings of his yellow duck hat flap in the wind. Does he think he is going to fly or something?
2. I'd like to address the elephant in the room, and point out that the lich chat feature is a really good resource for new players, even with all its warts. Is it possible for there to be a strictly OOC method of communication above the mentors and GMs (who are bound to get burnt out with even a fraction of the AOL-like hordes descending upon us) that gets passed to new players? If it's not lich, then I'd suggest some other form... but lets face it: without lich, the daily tedium of the game would not be as enjoyable for the casual player.
3. Will there be a way to give more tangible rewards to the good role-players we might attract with this? "You've been nominated by Lord So-n-So for excellent roleplaying! As your reward you can choose A. accelerated learning for 1 week, B. A free broadsword! C. A larger locker for 1 week."
Just tossing ideas out.
Malikh runs around in little circles, nodding his head so that the wings of his yellow duck hat flap in the wind. Does he think he is going to fly or something?
<<1. Will it be possible for a F2P account to upgrade to regular subscription easily, AND revert the changes? (I'm assuming not, but clarification is a good thing)>>
Once an account has subscribed, it cannot be reverted to F2P status.
<<2. I'd like to address the elephant in the room, and point out that the lich chat feature is a really good resource for new players, even with all its warts. Is it possible for there to be a strictly OOC method of communication above the mentors and GMs (who are bound to get burnt out with even a fraction of the AOL-like hordes descending upon us) that gets passed to new players? If it's not lich, then I'd suggest some other form... but lets face it: without lich, the daily tedium of the game would not be as enjoyable for the casual player. >>
Agreed and I'll have to look into this, but I think we have this covered (got a lot in my brain right now, so I'm not positive on this one!).
<<3. Will there be a way to give more tangible rewards to the good role-players we might attract with this? "You've been nominated by Lord So-n-So for excellent roleplaying! As your reward you can choose A. accelerated learning for 1 week, B. A free broadsword! C. A larger locker for 1 week.">>
Interesting idea and something we can look into. :)
Solomon
Once an account has subscribed, it cannot be reverted to F2P status.
<<2. I'd like to address the elephant in the room, and point out that the lich chat feature is a really good resource for new players, even with all its warts. Is it possible for there to be a strictly OOC method of communication above the mentors and GMs (who are bound to get burnt out with even a fraction of the AOL-like hordes descending upon us) that gets passed to new players? If it's not lich, then I'd suggest some other form... but lets face it: without lich, the daily tedium of the game would not be as enjoyable for the casual player. >>
Agreed and I'll have to look into this, but I think we have this covered (got a lot in my brain right now, so I'm not positive on this one!).
<<3. Will there be a way to give more tangible rewards to the good role-players we might attract with this? "You've been nominated by Lord So-n-So for excellent roleplaying! As your reward you can choose A. accelerated learning for 1 week, B. A free broadsword! C. A larger locker for 1 week.">>
Interesting idea and something we can look into. :)
Solomon
I'm very, very excited about this development, as a GM, and as a player. I'm anxious to see where we go from here and the positive impact to our community and game.
I'm very happy to know a lot of new souls and old souls will be coming soon!
(...and no, not just because I like to eat peoples' deeds, nom nom nom...or is it? dun Dun DUN!)
-GM Kenstrom-
Waylayer of Wehnimer's Landing
Human Guru
Giantmen Guru
I'm very happy to know a lot of new souls and old souls will be coming soon!
(...and no, not just because I like to eat peoples' deeds, nom nom nom...or is it? dun Dun DUN!)
-GM Kenstrom-
Waylayer of Wehnimer's Landing
Human Guru
Giantmen Guru
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see much discussion when it comes to enchanting and Esorc's...
I have not yet seen this noted, either.
Firstly, these are higher level spells. It will either take them longer to get to this stage, or requiring purchasing some kinds of things.
They also cannot take more than 100k normally, so they can't even charge normal rates for many services (which might indeed be the exact problem you have in mind).
For Enchanting, I think it only needs to restrict to "no major projects", with perhaps a pass to do so. (I don't see that it's necessary to allow it at all.) The market is already bottomed out for 4x vanilla gear, and with more F2P people coming in, this cannot be a bad thing really.
As for Ensorcell, my idea is to simply limit the necrotic energy the same way experience is limited (whatever the factor is, just mirror the factor). I know for the ensorcelling I charge 2m / necroweek for it's gonna be a while before F2P accounts even approach this stage. That should be the same story for major enchant services too, but doesn't make me hesitate to say, "No major projects."
Definitely temporary 735 should be unrestricted.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
I have not yet seen this noted, either.
Firstly, these are higher level spells. It will either take them longer to get to this stage, or requiring purchasing some kinds of things.
They also cannot take more than 100k normally, so they can't even charge normal rates for many services (which might indeed be the exact problem you have in mind).
For Enchanting, I think it only needs to restrict to "no major projects", with perhaps a pass to do so. (I don't see that it's necessary to allow it at all.) The market is already bottomed out for 4x vanilla gear, and with more F2P people coming in, this cannot be a bad thing really.
As for Ensorcell, my idea is to simply limit the necrotic energy the same way experience is limited (whatever the factor is, just mirror the factor). I know for the ensorcelling I charge 2m / necroweek for it's gonna be a while before F2P accounts even approach this stage. That should be the same story for major enchant services too, but doesn't make me hesitate to say, "No major projects."
Definitely temporary 735 should be unrestricted.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
While I definitely understand why this change is being made, I do have some reservations.
Basically, we are now open to OOC trolling on a massive scale. Someone being annoying in TSC? Ban them, they're back 5min later with a new FTP account. There's really no defense against it that I can see. And as much as I WISH people would act maturely without policing, this is sadly not the case.
I guess we'll see how it goes, we're small enough that we might not be a huge target, but it only takes a few bad apples to negatively affect the RP environment.
On another note, am I the only one considering the massive influx of locker-characters that are about to be created by the existing player-base? Not sure it's a problem, per se, but it will certainly reduce the need for additional locker space.
>Look on the bright side. If the F2P players bother you then you can always upgrade to a Platinum account.
To be 100% honest, it's true.
You can also move to RR apparently. That's where I chill, and F2P needs to do something additional to chill there. (Or troll?)
I still agree with the "chicken little" analysis. I know I started playing in the AOL days. I think many of our best community members did, too; many of our good community members didn't, it's true. It's all statistics though. Do I expect to dislike WL more? No, not really...it's gonna be the same-old same-old.
Am I nervous? Sure. Change is always a bit concerning. But let's get real. Anyone post here can thump, web, stun, and whatever to anyone they want. Should we do that? No! But as long as a single person is nervous, just remember, it's your game, too. So, do it right, try to show people the ropes, perhaps a couple times, and if they refuse, well, you know what to do.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
To be 100% honest, it's true.
You can also move to RR apparently. That's where I chill, and F2P needs to do something additional to chill there. (Or troll?)
I still agree with the "chicken little" analysis. I know I started playing in the AOL days. I think many of our best community members did, too; many of our good community members didn't, it's true. It's all statistics though. Do I expect to dislike WL more? No, not really...it's gonna be the same-old same-old.
Am I nervous? Sure. Change is always a bit concerning. But let's get real. Anyone post here can thump, web, stun, and whatever to anyone they want. Should we do that? No! But as long as a single person is nervous, just remember, it's your game, too. So, do it right, try to show people the ropes, perhaps a couple times, and if they refuse, well, you know what to do.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
>> Look on the bright side. If the F2P players bother you then you can always upgrade to a Platinum account.
I might have considered that years ago if there was a transition path for my existing characters to move from Prime to Platinum.
-- Robert
"Wyrom isn't interacting with me, I think he is AFK scripting."
I might have considered that years ago if there was a transition path for my existing characters to move from Prime to Platinum.
-- Robert
"Wyrom isn't interacting with me, I think he is AFK scripting."
There are a couple of threads that sort of lead to the same answer I'm about to give. Please keep in mind guys, the game is completely free on the F2P subscription. The ultimate goal here is for us to get more long term players. Maybe get some people who want to return to try it out again. The game is completely operation on a F2P subscription level though. Trust me on this. This is a better route than a $5 Lite account that many people also wish we had. No credit card needed. No monetary needs to play (outside being on the internet). No risk at all to give GS a try.
I know some of you have concerns with trolling. But I don't think we're going to see this traffic of usual MMORPG troll come our way. I think the honest, brand new player is actually going to be quite healthy for the game, both for a thriving player community and for the direction we've been heading in general.
~Wyrom, APM
>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean
I know some of you have concerns with trolling. But I don't think we're going to see this traffic of usual MMORPG troll come our way. I think the honest, brand new player is actually going to be quite healthy for the game, both for a thriving player community and for the direction we've been heading in general.
~Wyrom, APM
>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean
re: locker characters...
F2P accounts won't be able to use lockers without buying the temporary ability via the Simucoin store so I don't think that will be a problem. Unless you mean you think characters will be created specifically to hold items on their persons, but again, F2P characters are limited in the numbers of items they can hold physically. There could be some abuse there, but I doubt it would be too big of a deal. That would be more trouble than I'd go to in order to hang onto a few extra items, and I'm sure if it were abused too heavily the GMs would notice and take action.
F2P accounts won't be able to use lockers without buying the temporary ability via the Simucoin store so I don't think that will be a problem. Unless you mean you think characters will be created specifically to hold items on their persons, but again, F2P characters are limited in the numbers of items they can hold physically. There could be some abuse there, but I doubt it would be too big of a deal. That would be more trouble than I'd go to in order to hang onto a few extra items, and I'm sure if it were abused too heavily the GMs would notice and take action.
Wyrom wrote:
>There are a couple of threads that sort of lead to the same answer I'm about to give. Please keep in mind guys, the game is completely free on the F2P subscription. The ultimate goal here is for us to get more long term players. Maybe get some people who want to return to try it out again. The game is completely operation on a F2P subscription level though. Trust me on this. This is a better route than a $5 Lite account that many people also wish we had. No credit card needed. No monetary needs to play (outside being on the internet). No risk at all to give GS a try.
>I know some of you have concerns with trolling. But I don't think we're going to see this traffic of usual MMORPG troll come our way. I think the honest, brand new player is actually going to be quite healthy for the game, both for a thriving player community and for the direction we've been heading in general.
I want to say, despite my posts with some concerns, and also some questions, I'm really behind the GMs, staff, and Simutronics on this one. Literally the largest concern is for GMs who may have a bit of a larger workload to help smooth out any problems which may arise, which, quite frankly, is none of my business.
I think this is a really great idea, and so many angles have been considered and covered with clever solutions, I'm just amazed.
As just one example, I noticed Whispering Willow on a restrictions list; I passed it off as quaint, and had more posts to read in this folder. Today, my wife and I were gswiki editing, and she made an offhand comment that WHISPER is a redlink (whether because it's linked wrong or there's actually no page on it, I'm not sure). Somehow it immediately dawned on me and started laughing. "OOOOOH! That's why they are restricting Whispering Willow!" "What?!" "For the free to play system. It must be to keep people from trolling others with the spell. Wow, they thought of everything!"
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
>There are a couple of threads that sort of lead to the same answer I'm about to give. Please keep in mind guys, the game is completely free on the F2P subscription. The ultimate goal here is for us to get more long term players. Maybe get some people who want to return to try it out again. The game is completely operation on a F2P subscription level though. Trust me on this. This is a better route than a $5 Lite account that many people also wish we had. No credit card needed. No monetary needs to play (outside being on the internet). No risk at all to give GS a try.
>I know some of you have concerns with trolling. But I don't think we're going to see this traffic of usual MMORPG troll come our way. I think the honest, brand new player is actually going to be quite healthy for the game, both for a thriving player community and for the direction we've been heading in general.
I want to say, despite my posts with some concerns, and also some questions, I'm really behind the GMs, staff, and Simutronics on this one. Literally the largest concern is for GMs who may have a bit of a larger workload to help smooth out any problems which may arise, which, quite frankly, is none of my business.
I think this is a really great idea, and so many angles have been considered and covered with clever solutions, I'm just amazed.
As just one example, I noticed Whispering Willow on a restrictions list; I passed it off as quaint, and had more posts to read in this folder. Today, my wife and I were gswiki editing, and she made an offhand comment that WHISPER is a redlink (whether because it's linked wrong or there's actually no page on it, I'm not sure). Somehow it immediately dawned on me and started laughing. "OOOOOH! That's why they are restricting Whispering Willow!" "What?!" "For the free to play system. It must be to keep people from trolling others with the spell. Wow, they thought of everything!"
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
<< On another note, am I the only one considering the massive influx of locker-characters that are about to be created by the existing player-base? Not sure it's a problem, per se, but it will certainly reduce the need for additional locker space. >>
You could have your own F2P page boy walking locker, right? Give him a very large cloak and backpack, and you're set. How many page boys/girls would you want? How many might park at an inn table? I remember when empty tables were tough to come by.
Overall, I'm liking the F2P system. I don't think I'll go F2P, but I may generate a few characters and have them ready for introducing friends and family to the game.
You could have your own F2P page boy walking locker, right? Give him a very large cloak and backpack, and you're set. How many page boys/girls would you want? How many might park at an inn table? I remember when empty tables were tough to come by.
Overall, I'm liking the F2P system. I don't think I'll go F2P, but I may generate a few characters and have them ready for introducing friends and family to the game.
>You could have your own F2P page boy walking locker, right? Give him a very large cloak and backpack, and you're set. How many page boys/girls would you want? How many might park at an inn table? I remember when empty tables were tough to come by.
Tables being hard to come by would be a blast from the past!
But this is, yet another reason, I don't see why we are allowing multiple logins. Even if one wants to defend MAing as it presently is...free accounts should not MA what-so-ever.
I doubt it's very hard to do a MAC address bind. Sure there's macchanging programs (I use them sometimes, mostly when DHCP at my work is being pesky and I have a static IP I can rip from my desktop to my laptop) but good luck machanging on the fly.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
Tables being hard to come by would be a blast from the past!
But this is, yet another reason, I don't see why we are allowing multiple logins. Even if one wants to defend MAing as it presently is...free accounts should not MA what-so-ever.
I doubt it's very hard to do a MAC address bind. Sure there's macchanging programs (I use them sometimes, mostly when DHCP at my work is being pesky and I have a static IP I can rip from my desktop to my laptop) but good luck machanging on the fly.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
>>free accounts should not MA what-so-ever.
Sorry, DAID, you lost me here. Is your logic simply that this prohibition would ensure we don't hit a 'you don't see an empty table' status?
I ask because there are so many better ways to handle the same issue -- in game, and not impose this as a barrier to someone who wants to 'load up' even if it be moving at a GSIII pace for experience. In the end, more accounts should lead to more revenue, and if one player wants to triple up, that's more accounts.
Doug
Sorry, DAID, you lost me here. Is your logic simply that this prohibition would ensure we don't hit a 'you don't see an empty table' status?
I ask because there are so many better ways to handle the same issue -- in game, and not impose this as a barrier to someone who wants to 'load up' even if it be moving at a GSIII pace for experience. In the end, more accounts should lead to more revenue, and if one player wants to triple up, that's more accounts.
Doug
>>free accounts should not MA what-so-ever.
>Sorry, DAID, you lost me here. Is your logic simply that this prohibition would ensure we don't hit a 'you don't see an empty table' status?
Nothing to do with tables at all. Random locker characters, people that can in theory script as many F2P accounts as their CPU and bandwidth can handle. Sure we can script check but...what's the bottleneck? Script check one F2P account, they make another. While they can have an unlimited number of other connections.
I don't see what we gained in the first place allowing multi-accounting, but at least those accounts were being paid for.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
>Sorry, DAID, you lost me here. Is your logic simply that this prohibition would ensure we don't hit a 'you don't see an empty table' status?
Nothing to do with tables at all. Random locker characters, people that can in theory script as many F2P accounts as their CPU and bandwidth can handle. Sure we can script check but...what's the bottleneck? Script check one F2P account, they make another. While they can have an unlimited number of other connections.
I don't see what we gained in the first place allowing multi-accounting, but at least those accounts were being paid for.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
I mean, I'm not extremely worried about locker characters precisely. I imagine most people with Premium accounts have at least one locker character; I probably do. I also have various characters that allow me to access stores (or players selling items) in various towns around the game. I still think a locker character on the same account versus making an arbitrary number of locker characters on different accounts is not the same thing.
CHEs offer 30 extra locker spaces, joining Premium is another 30 or so (if I recall, something like that), and they even started selling permanent locker expansion in the SimuCoins store. Maybe I'm not seeing it but, these "benefits" sound sort of like a joke when MAing F2P accounts and forking over some loot is that simple. Even with a Premium locker character, if you're not MA'ing there's a slight inconvenience involved (find a friend, log out, log in, log out, log in). I guess there's limitations on what towns they can access, locker manifest (etc) will not work, and F2P accounts can't hold on to any really high end gear (but I don't know many people with a great-cloak worth of 10x items, though there are probably some people like that).
The main counter-question is what is gained by allowing F2P accounts to login from the same MAC address? Can't think of a single one that's good in my judgment.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
CHEs offer 30 extra locker spaces, joining Premium is another 30 or so (if I recall, something like that), and they even started selling permanent locker expansion in the SimuCoins store. Maybe I'm not seeing it but, these "benefits" sound sort of like a joke when MAing F2P accounts and forking over some loot is that simple. Even with a Premium locker character, if you're not MA'ing there's a slight inconvenience involved (find a friend, log out, log in, log out, log in). I guess there's limitations on what towns they can access, locker manifest (etc) will not work, and F2P accounts can't hold on to any really high end gear (but I don't know many people with a great-cloak worth of 10x items, though there are probably some people like that).
The main counter-question is what is gained by allowing F2P accounts to login from the same MAC address? Can't think of a single one that's good in my judgment.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
I, for one, welcome our new F2P overlords!
>>The main counter-question is what is gained by allowing F2P accounts to login from the same MAC address? Can't think of a single one that's good in my judgment.
The Simu server doesn't have access to the client's MAC address. It has access to the MAC address of the nearest router on the path to the client. Also, MAC addresses aren't unique. If you wanted to strictly limit everyone to only one login per computer, you'd have to do it with software on each computer in evil DRM style. That would anger lots of people and end up being subverted after some time anyway.
While being able to create and login to an arbitrary number of F2P accounts from one computer opens the door to new kinds of abuse, abuse itself isn't new. It can be handled basically the same way it has been. In the past, when one account was banned, linked accounts could also be banned. I would assume that F2P accounts coming from the same IP are linked, even ones that haven't been created yet.
Any attempt to limit logins is going to be messy and negatively affect people it shouldn't. I don't see much, if anything, gained by limiting logins.
>>The main counter-question is what is gained by allowing F2P accounts to login from the same MAC address? Can't think of a single one that's good in my judgment.
The Simu server doesn't have access to the client's MAC address. It has access to the MAC address of the nearest router on the path to the client. Also, MAC addresses aren't unique. If you wanted to strictly limit everyone to only one login per computer, you'd have to do it with software on each computer in evil DRM style. That would anger lots of people and end up being subverted after some time anyway.
While being able to create and login to an arbitrary number of F2P accounts from one computer opens the door to new kinds of abuse, abuse itself isn't new. It can be handled basically the same way it has been. In the past, when one account was banned, linked accounts could also be banned. I would assume that F2P accounts coming from the same IP are linked, even ones that haven't been created yet.
Any attempt to limit logins is going to be messy and negatively affect people it shouldn't. I don't see much, if anything, gained by limiting logins.
>Any attempt to limit logins is going to be messy and negatively affect people it shouldn't. I don't see much, if anything, gained by limiting logins.
Good point. I was trying to think how it might be done, actually. On a local network, my IP isn't the one the internet always sees, so I knew that couldn't work. MAC address was a rough guess but you're right I think about that, too.
And definitely evil DRM isn't my idea. Heck I use GNU/Linux, including to play. I'd probably end up being unable to play at all!
Still, the locker characters seems concerning. FWI transporters don't even work from near the lockers on FWI. It costs silver as well as potentially in-game time to move lockers. I'm trying to figure out how making F2P locker characters doesn't just poo all over the present locker systems, or what could be done to prevent it. If it's gonna be that easy, I'd say just give us 1000 item lockers, but they also recently sold SimuCoin locker expansion, so that option is not gonna fly.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
Good point. I was trying to think how it might be done, actually. On a local network, my IP isn't the one the internet always sees, so I knew that couldn't work. MAC address was a rough guess but you're right I think about that, too.
And definitely evil DRM isn't my idea. Heck I use GNU/Linux, including to play. I'd probably end up being unable to play at all!
Still, the locker characters seems concerning. FWI transporters don't even work from near the lockers on FWI. It costs silver as well as potentially in-game time to move lockers. I'm trying to figure out how making F2P locker characters doesn't just poo all over the present locker systems, or what could be done to prevent it. If it's gonna be that easy, I'd say just give us 1000 item lockers, but they also recently sold SimuCoin locker expansion, so that option is not gonna fly.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
re: locker characters
I just really don't think it will be that big of a problem. Some people will abuse it no doubt, but for most it will probably be more hassle than it's worth. Yeah, I do see it as a concern, and I'm one of those folks that bought an expanded 100 item locker expansion, so yeah, I get that it poops on me a little, but weighed against the potential benefit of bringing in new and old players to the game. I'm fine with it even if every player in the game created a new locker character to get around what I just paid for, so be it.
I just really don't think it will be that big of a problem. Some people will abuse it no doubt, but for most it will probably be more hassle than it's worth. Yeah, I do see it as a concern, and I'm one of those folks that bought an expanded 100 item locker expansion, so yeah, I get that it poops on me a little, but weighed against the potential benefit of bringing in new and old players to the game. I'm fine with it even if every player in the game created a new locker character to get around what I just paid for, so be it.
