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<Perhaps lores should also mitigate the EXP penalty for using 403/404. It's only fair. Investing in lores, probably at the expense of other useful skills, to better use spells that crush your <exp gain, is a dubious "benefit".
Yeah, they really need to fix that. These spells would be a lot more useful if wizards training in water lore could cast them on locksmiths without having to worry about messing with their experience or skill gains. Then it would actually be a pretty nice shared benefit, not just a point sink for post-cap rogues.
~Taverkin
Yeah, they really need to fix that. These spells would be a lot more useful if wizards training in water lore could cast them on locksmiths without having to worry about messing with their experience or skill gains. Then it would actually be a pretty nice shared benefit, not just a point sink for post-cap rogues.
~Taverkin
>> Not even capped. Around level 40 it was already becoming a problem consistently picking my own boxes with 2x locks & traps. You either need to go up to 3x, invest in lores, or seek other pickers for your own boxes (which I find embarrassing).
This might be a factor of the areas you are hunting. I've been 2x in disarm/picking since my early teens and am 70 now and have been able to pick pretty much anything we've found (with maybe 5% being too difficult for traps or locks, which can then be wedged). Mind you I do use 403 and 404 to boost my skill.
-- Robert
"All wizards are beginners; some of us have just been beginning longer!"
This might be a factor of the areas you are hunting. I've been 2x in disarm/picking since my early teens and am 70 now and have been able to pick pretty much anything we've found (with maybe 5% being too difficult for traps or locks, which can then be wedged). Mind you I do use 403 and 404 to boost my skill.
-- Robert
"All wizards are beginners; some of us have just been beginning longer!"
Yeah. I took "invest in lores" literally. So you could train 3x in disarm/lock picking, or learn 4 ranks of spells, or learn enough ranks in MIU or AS to use magic items or read scrolls.
Most rogues will already have sufficient AS to read the needed spells from scrolls as it assists in disarming scarabs anyway.
-- Robert
"All wizards are beginners; some of us have just been beginning longer!"
Most rogues will already have sufficient AS to read the needed spells from scrolls as it assists in disarming scarabs anyway.
-- Robert
"All wizards are beginners; some of us have just been beginning longer!"
>>Perhaps lores should also mitigate the EXP penalty for using 403/404. It's only fair. Investing in lores, probably at the expense of other useful skills, to better use spells that crush your exp gain, is a dubious "benefit".
This could be done in principle.
>>Yeah, they really need to fix that. These spells would be a lot more useful if wizards training in water lore could cast them on locksmiths without having to worry about messing with their experience or skill gains. Then it would actually be a pretty nice shared benefit, not just a point sink for post-cap rogues.
This is, as I have now said already probably more than once, basically wrong in my understanding. Normally when picking a lock, the easier it is to pick a lock, the less experience that is gained. 403 adds another 50% reduction to the experience independent of that. So no, you could not just start casting this spell on locksmiths willy-nilly if they removed the additional 50% experience cut, because it is still increasing their ability to pick the lock, which can inherently mitigate experience, depending on their skill, the lock, and the type of pick being used. This was why I said that, more likely than not, this feature had to be included with a comprehensive review of locksmithing. Also consider that if only the 50% additional penalty of 403/404 is dropped, it vastly changes the weight of training point value for any locksmiths that can learn MnE, which may be much less desirable than whatever perk a wizard who doesn't understand lockpicking hopes to gain by one single change.
>Well to be fair I said "invest in lores". You can do that by learning spells or buying potions, scrolls or imbeds but that still requires a silver and/or TP cost.
The lore is less effective when cast on others, and also less effective from potions/scrolls/imbeds without self-knowledge of the spell, although I think the 50% experience cut remains regardless. Of course you can still do it in a way other than learning the lores, but it will not be the same.
From gswiki: "If the spell is being cast from a scroll and the caster does not have personal knowledge of the spell (3 ranks in minor elemental spells), the spell loses 10 to 50% of its effectiveness if self-cast. If the caster is casting the spell onto another, the bonus is reduced by another 50%."
I'm certainly not an expert on lockpicking, but I had done it pretty regularly for about 18 months, always having knowledge of 403/404 in that time. I stand to be corrected, but I don't see that we can have a productive conversation about the topic when the essential mechanics are mis-represented.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
This could be done in principle.
>>Yeah, they really need to fix that. These spells would be a lot more useful if wizards training in water lore could cast them on locksmiths without having to worry about messing with their experience or skill gains. Then it would actually be a pretty nice shared benefit, not just a point sink for post-cap rogues.
This is, as I have now said already probably more than once, basically wrong in my understanding. Normally when picking a lock, the easier it is to pick a lock, the less experience that is gained. 403 adds another 50% reduction to the experience independent of that. So no, you could not just start casting this spell on locksmiths willy-nilly if they removed the additional 50% experience cut, because it is still increasing their ability to pick the lock, which can inherently mitigate experience, depending on their skill, the lock, and the type of pick being used. This was why I said that, more likely than not, this feature had to be included with a comprehensive review of locksmithing. Also consider that if only the 50% additional penalty of 403/404 is dropped, it vastly changes the weight of training point value for any locksmiths that can learn MnE, which may be much less desirable than whatever perk a wizard who doesn't understand lockpicking hopes to gain by one single change.
>Well to be fair I said "invest in lores". You can do that by learning spells or buying potions, scrolls or imbeds but that still requires a silver and/or TP cost.
The lore is less effective when cast on others, and also less effective from potions/scrolls/imbeds without self-knowledge of the spell, although I think the 50% experience cut remains regardless. Of course you can still do it in a way other than learning the lores, but it will not be the same.
From gswiki: "If the spell is being cast from a scroll and the caster does not have personal knowledge of the spell (3 ranks in minor elemental spells), the spell loses 10 to 50% of its effectiveness if self-cast. If the caster is casting the spell onto another, the bonus is reduced by another 50%."
I'm certainly not an expert on lockpicking, but I had done it pretty regularly for about 18 months, always having knowledge of 403/404 in that time. I stand to be corrected, but I don't see that we can have a productive conversation about the topic when the essential mechanics are mis-represented.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
