1640 Improvements on 09/01/2016 11:33 PM CDT
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Qualifier - I do not portray a paladin (yet). Although I think these suggested improvements will greatly help the class - especially for when I do decide to try my lance.

More than 3x a day - continue the lore push and let the paladins feel the love - 4x at 95, and 5x at 150?

Tracking! - Overload the SPELL verb for paladins (like we did with the MANA verb for spell-up casts) so that it reads:

>spell
Your spell lists:
Minor Spiritual...10
Paladin Base.......40
You can view your progress towards your skill goals in the character sheet.
You can view your spells in the spells panel.
You have used 0 of your 1 Divine Word casts available.


Doug
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Re: 1640 Improvements on 09/02/2016 12:34 AM CDT
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Doug
Qualifier - I do not portray a paladin (yet). Although I think these suggested improvements will greatly help the class - especially for when I do decide to try my lance.
More than 3x a day - continue the lore push and let the paladins feel the love - 4x at 95, and 5x at 150?
Tracking! - Overload the SPELL verb for paladins (like we did with the MANA verb for spell-up casts) so that it reads:


Yep, was already planning on that (for all spells with a limited daily use - 350, 1150, 1640, 550) but hadn't considered which verb to put it in yet. SPELL would make a good choice.

GameMaster Estild
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Re: 1640 Improvements on 09/02/2016 05:41 AM CDT
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Thanks for bringing this over here, Doug. It's sincerely appreciated.

Now I know, I know, it doesn't matter "whose" ideas they are, but I'm dead sure I requested the lore benefit to continue beyond 3 uses. As for knowing the number of uses, I'm less sure if I actually asked for it or if I asked about it (in a rather poignant way).

In any case, I would extended these requests in certain ways.

1) I would like to see "1 use per Y hours" over "X uses per day". This is also universal for these type of spells, in the case that they can increase the numbers allowed. That is, "1 use per eight hours" is strictly better than "3 uses per day" because if you cast it once in the evening, it will regenerate when you wake up. I am aware that this is strictly an upgrade to the spell, but it's one I would like. We are still limited to how many we can spam in a short time, but it realistically reflects resting. Rather than getting ALL your power back AT ONCE you get it back slowly over time. (Hopefully I have not misunderstood the spell here and how it recovers and tracks its usage.)

2) Knowing when the next reset (either daily or per hour) would be really nice. Usually when I lose track of how many I've done, it is more because I haven't recalled the exact time I initiated the countdown rather than my ability to count to, say, three. Or even my ability to count to one!

3) SPELL is a great verb choice, but let's give it an input parameter to avoid, say, an entire page of screen scroll if possible? Call me a whiner if you want, but I don't forget which spells I know as often as when I initiated a countdown on Divine Word.

Thanks again for both of the above posts. I definitely get a lot of use out of Divine Word in River's Rest, and if I'm not one of the spell's biggest users, I'm certainly one of its most enthusiastic users!

I don't expect us to get more than the cap of three Divine Words per day (though I'm unclear why a paladin that dedicated to religion should be denied...considering the other lore benefits it's a major sacrifice, and many players don't even like 1640). I also imagine coding may be more a reason to reject the use per hours over uses per day, but you never know.
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Re: 1640 Improvements on 09/02/2016 09:11 AM CDT
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DAID
1) I would like to see "1 use per Y hours" over "X uses per day". This is also universal for these type of spells, in the case that they can increase the numbers allowed. That is, "1 use per eight hours" is strictly better than "3 uses per day" because if you cast it once in the evening, it will regenerate when you wake up. I am aware that this is strictly an upgrade to the spell, but it's one I would like. We are still limited to how many we can spam in a short time, but it realistically reflects resting. Rather than getting ALL your power back AT ONCE you get it back slowly over time. (Hopefully I have not misunderstood the spell here and how it recovers and tracks its usage.)


Miracle (350) and Regeneration (1150) use to work exactly like that and it was not popular, thus was changed to uses per day. Yes, with a reduction in time between uses, you potentially could use it in the evening, then use it the next afternoon too. But you can do that with multiple uses per day too (i.e. you have 2 charges of the spell, so cast the first in the evening and the second the following day). The benefit for the latter is that if needed, you can cast it twice in the evening, while that's not possible with the former.

GameMaster Estild
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Re: 1640 Improvements on 09/02/2016 09:51 AM CDT
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>>Now I know, I know, it doesn't matter "whose" ideas they are, but I'm dead sure I requested the lore benefit to continue beyond 3 uses. As for knowing the number of uses, I'm less sure if I actually asked for it or if I asked about it (in a rather poignant way).

I'm sure you did, too. And to-may-to, to-mah-to. My only contribution is a small specific target suggestion in support of. Although, I do sincerely appreciate you reminding me - quite explicitly - that this 'crusade' I'm on (to use a paladin term!) could benefit other areas as well. And, of course, Estild's way ahead of the pack with plans to cover everyone.

>>SPELL is a great verb choice, but let's give it an input parameter to avoid

Are you referring to SPELL ALL (where it lists each individual spell you are trained in)? I'm not opposed, mind, but didn't personally consider the SPELL verb output to be all that 'scroll' heavy. SPELL USE, perhaps, spits out a single line for each 'limited' spell in the profession? I'd still like to see it under the general SPELL verb, too, though.

Doug
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Re: 1640 Improvements on 09/02/2016 11:01 AM CDT
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ESTILD
Miracle (350) and Regeneration (1150) use to work exactly like that and it was not popular, thus was changed to uses per day. Yes, with a reduction in time between uses, you potentially could use it in the evening, then use it the next afternoon too. But you can do that with multiple uses per day too (i.e. you have 2 charges of the spell, so cast the first in the evening and the second the following day). The benefit for the latter is that if needed, you can cast it twice in the evening, while that's not possible with the former.


I'm asking to have it both ways. The lore would increase your pool size to the present numbers (call it 'uses'). But instead of regenerating at a rate uses/day, if uses>1, then the regeneration rate is 24/uses hours for each one.

I cannot see any reason my version would ever be unpopular among players. No more than uses can ever be performed in a short period, but you could draw 24-hour windows where the number of times a player casts the spell exceeded uses presuming they played variously throughout the day, and then drained all their uses promptly. Technically you can squeeze in 2*uses in a bit over 24 hours if this is your goal, but it would be considered generally unlikely as it requires playing all day (or with an unusual spacing throughout the day) and also beginning with a fresh pool.

Example: I have 3 uses. I use one at midnight, dropping my pool to 2 remaining. By 8 AM, my pool is back to three. Now I use all three in a relatively short window, dropping my pool to zero. A bit after 4 PM, I have one use available. By midnight, I have two. Let's say I use one then, dropping my pool to one. By 8 AM I have two again. I don't use anything, and by 4 PM I have all three back.

I understand this is simply an upgrade to the availability, but in practice it just means that the time to recover one use is not 24 hours, but depends on your training. Training doesn't just give more uses, but means they come back slightly faster. It means if I use one in the evening, the next morning I have all of them available again. It sounds reasonable to me.

Again, I presume that the major drawback here is coding, or possibly approval if it's considered a very significant power increase.

DOUG
Are you referring to SPELL ALL...


Yeah I'm probably thinking of that one that sears my retinas on login. Trivia: Why does this happen at login, and why is it only the last circle that names the spells and not all of them?
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Re: 1640 Improvements on 09/02/2016 11:20 AM CDT
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>> Trivia: Why does this happen at login, and why is it only the last circle that names the spells and not all of them?

Wow! Um. . . I don't know why it happens at login. It hasn't / doesn't for any client that I'm using. I think about the only key difference here that might lead to this is Profanity / Warlock - neither of which I have explored yet. But if it happens in Profanity (as an example) but not Avalon / Wizard / SF, I'd be inclined to lead the exploration in that direction - possibly as a defect.

No matter which FE we're talking, if all circles don't show all circle / number / names of all available spells, I'd say that's a defect, too. My experience is that all spells (including spell knowledge enhancive spells available) show up under SPELL ALL, by circle, showing both number and name.

I agree, though - it's a lot of info very fast, scrolling the screen. So I generally don't use it - and would be annoyed if it somehow 'always' occurred without my explicit request.

Doug
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