My shops owner Kershaw is on sabatical (Account on hold). I visit the shop as a partner and keep it stocked, funds in shop account etc. Will this count as being visited?




Aurach

>My shops owner Kershaw is on sabatical (Account on hold). I visit the shop as a partner and keep it stocked, funds in shop account etc. Will this count as being visited?

I'm 99% sure it has to be the shop owner entering the shop on his/her own or as the leader of the group, and then operating a SHOP command inside the shop

I don't want Retser to get trapped in the weeds here. This is a pending update that has literally taken ten years at this point. This update is not to address all the things we want to get updated. This is so we can finally unpause the system and start getting shops out there again. We have a wishlist of things we want to see, but until this is live, that wishlist will never happen. It's still quite a bit of spaghetti code, it's just working again.

I realize everyone doesn't want to pay scalped shop permit prices. Retser and I will discuss some options, but we realize there won't be a real fair way to do this. One per account doesn't stop someone with 10 Premium accounts. Someone who wants a second shop shouldn't be shut out entirely. Linked accounts shouldn't be shut out. We're not going to be handing these out, the system will be doing all that. Only thing I can say is... There was no widespread automation in GS when shops were released. We will do what's best for the game overall.

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Wyrom, PM

>I don't want Retser to get trapped in the weeds here.

I kinda feel bad for getting ahead of myself without stopping to pause and say THANK YOU Retser! This was no small accomplishment - kudos to you.

~Land Pirate Maylan~

Can you add the alchemy shop room mechanics that boots people out for lingering too long at the purchase tables to the rooms where people get shop deeds?

Yes, thank you so much for moving forward with these updates!! I'm very excited to finally see the system addressed.

- Overlord EK

>You now regard Eorgina with a warm demeanor.

> Seconding this. It's impressive and awesome that this is being released. Thank you!

And THIRDing. I am naming my new shop already!


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Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)"

Wyrom & Retser, as someone who just returned, thank you for taking the time to fix the shops. I never had a shop before and never have the opportunity to have one so I heartily look forward to the opportunity.

The current system is extremely unfair to the average player who wasn't there in the original handout and who doesn't have the coins to pay the currently crazy and artifically manipulated market. So its great to finally open it back up.

I really request that as a first principle, you allow people who want a shop and don't currently have one to have that opportunity. Its not just a game balance question - its a RP issue! Not everyone who ran shops in history were rich types, it didn't cost 30 mil for peasants to open up a small craft store or aspiring blacksmith to set up a cart. It should be easy and available for people to start a merchant life!

I think setting an INITIAL limit of 1 per account is completely fair. In regards to the letting people have 2nd shops and such, just let that be the 2nd round. Have 3 months where only first owners can apply and then after that, open it up as much as you want until the quota are filled. I feel that's completely fair.

Honestly, I'm worried about making sure that they're fairly available, but I do agree that we should wait and see if there are widespread problems before worrying too much. While I think 1 per account may end up being an idea, it's not going to solve the real problem, which is scalping and flipping. The people who want to flip can still buy up enough of them as they become available etc.

Given that almost 2/3 of the current shops are coming onto the market, the price WILL plummet (it sure as heck ain't going up...). But there's also other considerations that can be made, such as possibly opening up more shops in a second district etc. I could see something like those shops being reserved for linked accounts without one, or who knows what else. But one thing I'll say is that if somebody suddenly starts offering to sell shops at high rates... don't buy them? If 200 of 400 shops are purchased to flip, it will not result in a strong market for the sellers, who will be competing with each other. Will it be more than the 100k for just a deed? Yes. Will it be 30 Million? No.

I do agree with Wyrom though, let's get them out first, and see what happens. We're talking about a system that's been locked up for a decade, any predictions about what will happen are just guesswork.

>I do agree with Wyrom though, let's get them out first, and see what happens.

I don't. I really don't see how releasing the shops in the same fashion they were before is best for the game. Let's cut off the issues before they happen, because you know how the players are.

I also think the deeds should be non-transferable.

Kerl

Well, Retser said 30 days from Mon for inactive players. It's a good time for everyone to reach out to anyone you are in contact with that has a shop and isn't online frequently and make sure they're aware of this. A login banner in-game during the 30 day period would help. What is going to happen to the inventory of evicted shops? Is it going to be boxed up and dropped on the owner, or tossed into the void, or dealt with on a case-by-case basis? There are inactive shops with little or no inventory. There are also shops with active partners, though the owner is inactive.

Instead of non-transferable, maybe the deeds can be semi-attuned, where there is a mandatory 30/90/etc. day waiting period before they can be transferred, once the shop is closed. That would make people think twice. Or a SimuCoin item. Or both.

I just think this is a bigger change for people who haven't played much than a lot of people might realize. A lot of people have items in their shop that are there for posterity. Rightly or wrongly, they've used the shop for that purpose, and it's that same posterity that keeps them connected to the game. More than a couple of notices on an antiquated forum that a lot of people don't check is needed to warn people that their stuff might be gone, or that they're in for a big headache when they come back.

I also agree that the shop items should be boxed up and shelved for the store owner. It isn't like that is going to be some huge resource drain.

This is all about customer service and retention. You guys would probably be shocked at the number of players who still pay a subscription but haven't stuck their head in the game for months. They do so because they love this game. Let's give them plenty of warning, since they probably aren't actively following this message board.

Kerl

As a side note, I had a shop partner who was a friend, who fell off the map. They had half a dozen items in the shop so I just bought them all before terminating their partner status. It wasn't a lot of coins, and nothing particularly important, but this is how you treat friends. You do them a solid, not throw them to the curb. Box up their stuff, and make sure there are plenty of shops so that they can get one when they return.

>I would imagine it would be handled like all inventory, from the announcement on Shop Policy: "In the event that your shop is reclaimed by the Shop Permit Authority, your inventory will be held by the permit clerk (in a box identified by your name on the floor of the Shop Permit Authority office in the town your shop was in) for a maximum of 90 days, after which it will be permanently lost." -- GM Ozias, 26-Feb-2006

I think it might be neat to have those boxes auctioned off or raffled off. Every few months the whatever city the boxes are in, any citizen of that city has a chance to bid or enter a raffle for an unclaimed box. The contents could be awesome or downright awful. You may win big or lose big.

-Drumpel

Personally, I think that, at least for now, after 75 Days, the boxes should be manually moved to a long term storage area, where players can assist to get them back for 1-2 years. I agree that un-mothballing after a decade will require a little care to make sure nothing un-recoverable happens quickly.

Shops can be gotten back. Even custom shops can be recreated, but some of those items really are never again grade.

Oh, and after 2 years... I think we should have Elanthian Pawn Wars! Allow people to buy the lots blind or something from that long term storage area.

<<That's about the worst ever customer service policy, in a game where it costs virtually nothing to set someone's stuff aside somewhere until claimed, whenever that is.>>

Mass storage in player accessible areas is not a zero cost endeavor. No, it doesn't cost money, it actually does, but lets not go into that.

SGM Sleken

<<That's about the worst ever customer service policy, in a game where it costs virtually nothing to set someone's stuff aside somewhere until claimed, whenever that is.>>

Mass storage in player accessible areas is not a zero cost endeavor. No, it doesn't cost money, it actually does, but lets not go into that.

SGM Sleken


Such a confusing reply. "No, it doesn't cost as an endeavor." "No, it doesn't cost money." "Yes it does cost money, it actually does." "Let's not talk about it."

Now I'm curious. And please, feel free to redirect this chat into another part of the boards.

Could drop the items on a GM controlled character and log it out. If someone shows up to claim their stuff, they have to assist and get a referral. Then the GM can pull the box from this character. It's not a hands-off approach but if very few of these characters are expected to show up again, then it might be a simple, feasible approach. After a year or whatever time period, the boxes are cleaned out or, as others have suggested, items are put up for auction.

I can understand folk that have gotten out of the habit of visiting their shops (or the forums) desiring a notice somewhere other then here, but inactive accounts shouldn't get any special consideration.

From the day shops were created it was made clear that unattended shops would be confiscated and items would be held for X number of days before being lost. When the mechanics for confiscating shops was frozen, it was stated that it would only last until someone could fix them. If someone takes a break from GS without bothering to move items in their shop either onto their character or into a locker then they should know the risk they're taking. Hopefully promotional emails go to those with inactive accounts to give them a chance to at least temporarily reactivate their accounts if they care to (and such an email gets sent), but that's the furthest it should go.

People that are using them as locker expansions are at best using them in a manner that was unintended and could be argued to be abusing mechanics. If they lost their shops due to lack of attention, it would make it easier for me when searching for high end items on the various sites that list shop contents and having to sort through items with no loresong or mention on the signs at the million silver and above level.

Since they're not going to work on a game-wide auction house or merchant system for players to offer their items up for sale to each other, let them do what they need to do to make the existing shop system available to those that have been shut out of it for years. Some of us would love a way to sell our stuff that doesn't involve PC and the people on it that regularly flake out on their offers.

Starchitin

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.

"Once all the evicted shops have been handled I will slowly start opening permit sales in all the realms. This will allow players to visit the local shop warehouse, buy a permit, and CLAIM a shop. The method of release is under discussion, but there will most likely be more than enough shops to just open it up and let those who want one, buy one."

You know this wont work. Greedy people who live on the game will try and buy them up and sell them for tens of millions of silver on PC to people who have actual jobs they have to go to every day.