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The first phase of the PlayerShop updates is now underway.
Rent has now been drawn for all towns. All shops that did not have the owner or a partner visit it within the last 90 days have also been closed.
Retser, ASGM
Here are the updated numbers of shops.
Prime LIVE
Landing: 109/200
Teras: 16/25
Solhaven: 38/75
Rivers Rest: 12/25
Icemule: 59/101
Zul Logoth: 14/25
Ta'Illistim: 30/53
Ta'Vaalor: 63/100
Four winds: 40/75
Cysaegir: 0/0
Total Closed: 381
Total Shops: 679
PRIME BEFORE ANNOUNCEMENT
Landing: 123/200
Teras: 19/25
Solhaven: 51/75
River's Rest: 19/25
Icemule: 74/101
Zul Logoth: 16/25
Ta'Illistim: 38/53
Ta'Vaalor: 75/100
Four Winds: 47/75
Cysaegir: 0/0
Total Closed: 462
Total Shops: 679
Retser, ASGM
Prime LIVE
Landing: 109/200
Teras: 16/25
Solhaven: 38/75
Rivers Rest: 12/25
Icemule: 59/101
Zul Logoth: 14/25
Ta'Illistim: 30/53
Ta'Vaalor: 63/100
Four winds: 40/75
Cysaegir: 0/0
Total Closed: 381
Total Shops: 679
PRIME BEFORE ANNOUNCEMENT
Landing: 123/200
Teras: 19/25
Solhaven: 51/75
River's Rest: 19/25
Icemule: 74/101
Zul Logoth: 16/25
Ta'Illistim: 38/53
Ta'Vaalor: 75/100
Four Winds: 47/75
Cysaegir: 0/0
Total Closed: 462
Total Shops: 679
Retser, ASGM
>I'm afraid I don't understand the numbers. Is it basically saying that there were already closed shops, or were the "before" numbers shops with no inventory, or?
I think it means that 81 people got the message and checked into their shops, so now there are 381 shops "to be available" instead of 462
< Is it basically saying that there were already closed shops, or were the "before" numbers shops with no inventory, or?>
The only way to get a shop since rent was suspended was to buy them from someone that already had one. Before that, the mechanics for buying a deed made it next to impossible for someone that wasn't squatting with a script. Since there were shops repossessed prior to rent being put on hold (mine was one), it's not surprising that there were vacancies. Though, it is surprising that there were so many in the Landing and Four Winds.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
The only way to get a shop since rent was suspended was to buy them from someone that already had one. Before that, the mechanics for buying a deed made it next to impossible for someone that wasn't squatting with a script. Since there were shops repossessed prior to rent being put on hold (mine was one), it's not surprising that there were vacancies. Though, it is surprising that there were so many in the Landing and Four Winds.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Here are the updated numbers of shops.
Prime LIVE
Landing: 109/200
Teras: 16/25
Solhaven: 38/75
Rivers Rest: 12/25
Icemule: 59/101
Zul Logoth: 14/25
Ta'Illistim: 30/53
Ta'Vaalor: 63/100
Four winds: 40/75
Cysaegir: 0/0
Is it possible to increase the number of shops in some towns? I noticed that in one town in particular, some of the rooms on our player maps show as shop rooms, but there are no shops in those rooms.
Maybe increase these towns?
Teras - 50
RR - 50
ZL - 50
Illistim - 100
FWI - 100
Prime LIVE
Landing: 109/200
Teras: 16/25
Solhaven: 38/75
Rivers Rest: 12/25
Icemule: 59/101
Zul Logoth: 14/25
Ta'Illistim: 30/53
Ta'Vaalor: 63/100
Four winds: 40/75
Cysaegir: 0/0
Is it possible to increase the number of shops in some towns? I noticed that in one town in particular, some of the rooms on our player maps show as shop rooms, but there are no shops in those rooms.
Maybe increase these towns?
Teras - 50
RR - 50
ZL - 50
Illistim - 100
FWI - 100
Personally, I think you did a crappy job on notification, especially to what I would call casual players. I dont usually read these forums nowadays, and certainly not every category when I do. Im kind of torn between being ticked off and not caring. At this point I guess I give up. I know and understand the shop system needing to be overhauled. I even dont mind the time requirements in themselves. But the notification of implementation sucked.
<I dont usually read these forums nowadays, and certainly not every category when I do.>
Few folk keep track of every category, but Important Announcements should be one everyone peeks in when they check the forums. Any time there's mechanical/policy changes or official events the post can be seen there without being drowned out by player comments. Those posts also have their titles show up on the right side of the screen on the Gemstone home page.
Whether they could have or should have done more is up for opinion, but the announcements that this was going to happen weren't exactly hidden in an obscure spot of the forums.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Few folk keep track of every category, but Important Announcements should be one everyone peeks in when they check the forums. Any time there's mechanical/policy changes or official events the post can be seen there without being drowned out by player comments. Those posts also have their titles show up on the right side of the screen on the Gemstone home page.
Whether they could have or should have done more is up for opinion, but the announcements that this was going to happen weren't exactly hidden in an obscure spot of the forums.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
>If you aren't paying your rent for your shop and you closed your account for a long period of time why should you be entitled to assume your shop should still be yours? You are renting that space and if you don't pay the bills in game it should be freed up for other players to use since it's limited.
Agreed. Outside of unforeseen issues that may pull you away from the game for a long period of time. If you were planning on closing your account and you didn't clean out your shop, then that is on you.
When I did own a shop (had it 6-12 months), I had to take a long leave from the game. I knew I was stopping my account for a good while so I cleared out my shop. Seeing as I wasn't sure if/when I was coming back, I sold the shop off. It didn't make any sense to keep it and not let anyone else have a shot at using it. At the time I paid around 5mil for it and sold it for about the same.
I wasn't going to leave my shop stocked with stuff and just close my account. Even if I knew I'd be back after 6/12/18/24 months, I still wouldn't have left it stocked. Things change in game constantly. I always knew they could fix the shops and if I did come back, it would be gone along with everything inside while I was away. I would have no one but myself to blame.
The game policy has been in place since the start of the shops and it is a requirement of the player to know and understand these policies. It has also been known for a long time that the system was bugged and not working as intended and it would eventually get fixed (sadly, it took them a lot longer than they wanted and what players wanted, but yeah! they got it going in the right direction now). Just because the system was bugged doesn't mean you should treat the shops any different then they were intended for. If you have, that is your own fault and you have no one but yourself to blame for lost items and/or shop.
People need to stop shifting the blame to Simu/GMs and looking for an out. I understand folks wish to see people come back and clean out shops or collect inventory they decided to horde in the shop as a locker and may be gone for 6+ months, but that's not what a shop is for. The user is at fault there. Could more have been done to notify people....I don't know, I'm not a GM. I'm not sure exactly what they did so I guess it's left up for personal opinion.
-Drumpel
Agreed. Outside of unforeseen issues that may pull you away from the game for a long period of time. If you were planning on closing your account and you didn't clean out your shop, then that is on you.
When I did own a shop (had it 6-12 months), I had to take a long leave from the game. I knew I was stopping my account for a good while so I cleared out my shop. Seeing as I wasn't sure if/when I was coming back, I sold the shop off. It didn't make any sense to keep it and not let anyone else have a shot at using it. At the time I paid around 5mil for it and sold it for about the same.
I wasn't going to leave my shop stocked with stuff and just close my account. Even if I knew I'd be back after 6/12/18/24 months, I still wouldn't have left it stocked. Things change in game constantly. I always knew they could fix the shops and if I did come back, it would be gone along with everything inside while I was away. I would have no one but myself to blame.
The game policy has been in place since the start of the shops and it is a requirement of the player to know and understand these policies. It has also been known for a long time that the system was bugged and not working as intended and it would eventually get fixed (sadly, it took them a lot longer than they wanted and what players wanted, but yeah! they got it going in the right direction now). Just because the system was bugged doesn't mean you should treat the shops any different then they were intended for. If you have, that is your own fault and you have no one but yourself to blame for lost items and/or shop.
People need to stop shifting the blame to Simu/GMs and looking for an out. I understand folks wish to see people come back and clean out shops or collect inventory they decided to horde in the shop as a locker and may be gone for 6+ months, but that's not what a shop is for. The user is at fault there. Could more have been done to notify people....I don't know, I'm not a GM. I'm not sure exactly what they did so I guess it's left up for personal opinion.
-Drumpel
Respectfully, would players stop asking for improvements or changes at this juncture?
The GMs have already stated multiple times there will be no changes and for good reason.
Shops which have been broken for 10 years! Once it's working as originally designed, they're not going to change the code and risk breaking them again--at least not for a significant time. Why are people so greedy?
It's already amazing they're getting fixed, so be grateful, nod and thank Wyrom and Retser for working so hard.
>> These changes are possible due to Sleken, (former GM) Varulv, Retser, and many others who helped with QC, testing, and various other tasks. I'm just the slave driver. Retser is the current lead (this project has killed others).
Wait... not taking credit for underling's accomplishments?
WORST....PM....EVER! You are a disgrace to the title.
Wait... not taking credit for underling's accomplishments?
WORST....PM....EVER! You are a disgrace to the title.
<Respectfully, would players stop asking for improvements or changes at this juncture?>
Respectfully, no.
Speaking only for myself, I'm thrilled that they're working on getting the shops back into working order and opened up to everyone that's been shut out. I also don't want to see anything impede that.
That said, these recent announcements have many of us thinking about the shops and what we like/hate about them and would like to see improved. We realize that it's unlikely that any suggestions we make will be implemented in the immediate future, but if we don't make our requests/opinions heard when we think of them it's likely many of us won't get around to doing so later for a variety of reasons.
The chance might be vanishingly small that the GM(s) working on it will see a way to make any of them happen in the immediate future, but they are likely taking notes for when they do get to the point that they can make such changes. In the very least they let them know what has and has not been working from the players perspective so they might address it at a later date. Heck, I bet I'm not the only one that would forgive Retser and the other GMs involved for not responding to any suggestions here while they work to get the shops open... esp if they did a response at that point addressing what they feel are the most significant concerns that were voiced.
The point of voicing suggestions/complaints isn't solely to communicate with GMs either, there are times where another player's perspective has made me see things in a different light and amend my opinion on something both for good and ill.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Respectfully, no.
Speaking only for myself, I'm thrilled that they're working on getting the shops back into working order and opened up to everyone that's been shut out. I also don't want to see anything impede that.
That said, these recent announcements have many of us thinking about the shops and what we like/hate about them and would like to see improved. We realize that it's unlikely that any suggestions we make will be implemented in the immediate future, but if we don't make our requests/opinions heard when we think of them it's likely many of us won't get around to doing so later for a variety of reasons.
The chance might be vanishingly small that the GM(s) working on it will see a way to make any of them happen in the immediate future, but they are likely taking notes for when they do get to the point that they can make such changes. In the very least they let them know what has and has not been working from the players perspective so they might address it at a later date. Heck, I bet I'm not the only one that would forgive Retser and the other GMs involved for not responding to any suggestions here while they work to get the shops open... esp if they did a response at that point addressing what they feel are the most significant concerns that were voiced.
The point of voicing suggestions/complaints isn't solely to communicate with GMs either, there are times where another player's perspective has made me see things in a different light and amend my opinion on something both for good and ill.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
+1 to Starchitin's points
I think it's more important how the requests are framed, than whether they are happening. It has been my experience that most GM's would rather people be excited about the possibilities etc. It's when player expectation gets too out of whack (or the requests start to reach for the moon) that things get into problem territory.
I agree, some of these recent suggestions are a bit much, but reading between the lines, they still provide valuable insight into the concerns people have. So even if the requests might be a bit much, at least it helps the GM team know what problems are out there.
Now yes, a LOT of "suggestions" on this forum aren't as constructive or respectful as they should be. However, that's partially just how the internet has become.
But ultimately, if nobody asks, then the GM's won't know what people want, specifically, and within the confines of what can be delivered. A lot of people have asked for a centralized online auction house, and that truly is a big request (massive effort for unknown return, etc.). But I recall when Tillman asked for some help getting some level 20 wizards into every town just to scan and build a player solution to the problem, and he got support for that.
Asking for things, properly, is the best way to make sure that you enjoy your time in the game. And being told if something is impossible is valuable too, because then you start thinking of new solutions that would meet your needs, and maybe you can ask for those.
I for one have many neat things that I would love to see added to shops. I posted this one on the PC, but I'll post it here too:
I would love if we could have "gem-hoppers" or hoppers for other like but not identical items. The current method of distributing bounty gems has always struck me as a bit hacky (ten in a jar, must buy all).
Ultimately, I expect to see only a small fraction of the things I ask for come to fruition, but I absolutely will ask, to find out if other players agree, and if they do, then we'll hit up the various avenues to see about making a more formal request.
I think it's more important how the requests are framed, than whether they are happening. It has been my experience that most GM's would rather people be excited about the possibilities etc. It's when player expectation gets too out of whack (or the requests start to reach for the moon) that things get into problem territory.
I agree, some of these recent suggestions are a bit much, but reading between the lines, they still provide valuable insight into the concerns people have. So even if the requests might be a bit much, at least it helps the GM team know what problems are out there.
Now yes, a LOT of "suggestions" on this forum aren't as constructive or respectful as they should be. However, that's partially just how the internet has become.
But ultimately, if nobody asks, then the GM's won't know what people want, specifically, and within the confines of what can be delivered. A lot of people have asked for a centralized online auction house, and that truly is a big request (massive effort for unknown return, etc.). But I recall when Tillman asked for some help getting some level 20 wizards into every town just to scan and build a player solution to the problem, and he got support for that.
Asking for things, properly, is the best way to make sure that you enjoy your time in the game. And being told if something is impossible is valuable too, because then you start thinking of new solutions that would meet your needs, and maybe you can ask for those.
I for one have many neat things that I would love to see added to shops. I posted this one on the PC, but I'll post it here too:
I would love if we could have "gem-hoppers" or hoppers for other like but not identical items. The current method of distributing bounty gems has always struck me as a bit hacky (ten in a jar, must buy all).
Ultimately, I expect to see only a small fraction of the things I ask for come to fruition, but I absolutely will ask, to find out if other players agree, and if they do, then we'll hit up the various avenues to see about making a more formal request.
"I would love if we could have "gem-hoppers" or hoppers for other like but not identical items." -- Archsenex
Many years ago, when they were putting in the "stacking" capability and people commented on the "but the values are different, so they make separate stacks!", my suggestion was to make a two-step/"must confirm" process, but permit you to add non-matching silver value gems to an existing stack of the same 15/15/15...
...but the confirmation message would be that the silver value of EACH GEM in the stack would be REDUCED to the lower of "what the stack already was" or "the gem you are adding".
So if you had a stack of "an uncut emerald" and they were all 10,000 silvers, and you wanted to add "an uncut emerald" to it that was only worth 4,000 silvers, you would get the confirmation message.
And if you answered "yes", ALL of those emeralds would be turned into 4k value.
(Likewise if you had a stack of 9750 emeralds, and you put a 10k emerald on it [once to put, once to confirm/answer 'yes'], the entire stack would be 9750.)
For a variance of 250 silvers, I'd be willing to not-worry about having multiple stacks of inventory. (OR I would put a stack of ValueX in this container, a stack of ValueY in that container, and a stack of ValueZ in the other container.)
.
Basically, you can start with absolutely identical items... or you can reduce to lowest common denominator, and wind up with identical items. :)
Many years ago, when they were putting in the "stacking" capability and people commented on the "but the values are different, so they make separate stacks!", my suggestion was to make a two-step/"must confirm" process, but permit you to add non-matching silver value gems to an existing stack of the same 15/15/15...
...but the confirmation message would be that the silver value of EACH GEM in the stack would be REDUCED to the lower of "what the stack already was" or "the gem you are adding".
So if you had a stack of "an uncut emerald" and they were all 10,000 silvers, and you wanted to add "an uncut emerald" to it that was only worth 4,000 silvers, you would get the confirmation message.
And if you answered "yes", ALL of those emeralds would be turned into 4k value.
(Likewise if you had a stack of 9750 emeralds, and you put a 10k emerald on it [once to put, once to confirm/answer 'yes'], the entire stack would be 9750.)
For a variance of 250 silvers, I'd be willing to not-worry about having multiple stacks of inventory. (OR I would put a stack of ValueX in this container, a stack of ValueY in that container, and a stack of ValueZ in the other container.)
.
Basically, you can start with absolutely identical items... or you can reduce to lowest common denominator, and wind up with identical items. :)
