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My character was talking to a friend the other day about half-elves and it led to a lot of other thoughts/questions.
1. Among PCs interracial relations is very common, very few PCs treat this as deviant behavior. Would or should it be considered deviant?
2. I've seen half-elves and half-krolvin are other races capable of creating offspring? I could imagine that a human and giantkin if they had a child it would simply appear as a large human or small giant. But, other combinations seem more far fetched. Are there other types of mixed children or do they not occur period?
3. Why are there some mixed-race offspring? Is it the will of the gods, some gods, chance?
"The most authentic thing about us is our capacity to create, to overcome, to endure, to transform, to love and to be greater than our suffering."
Do remember, an elf is not a pointed ear human, a giant is not a very tall human. They are not humans at all. It is not a difference of race, but a difference of species.
Menos
AIM: GS4Menos
>Why, let the stricken deer go weep,
>The heart ungalled play;
>For some must watch, while some must sleep:
>So runs the world away.
Menos
AIM: GS4Menos
>Why, let the stricken deer go weep,
>The heart ungalled play;
>For some must watch, while some must sleep:
>So runs the world away.
>Among PCs interracial relations is very common, very few PCs treat this as deviant behavior. Would or should it be considered deviant?
It's deviant. Of the races that PCs can play, those that find interracial relations deviant fall mostly in the Elven AND Human camps.
-- Nick, Aasterinian's Taskmaster
It's deviant. Of the races that PCs can play, those that find interracial relations deviant fall mostly in the Elven AND Human camps.
-- Nick, Aasterinian's Taskmaster
>>Are there other types of mixed children or do they not occur period?
Gnelfs. Gnome-elves. Fear them.
Glimmin Goodhand
Master Glimmin's Locks and Keys: http://glimmin.nfshost.com
See a picture of Glimmin at: http://www.brighnasa.com/Chibis/Glimmin.jpg
Gnelfs. Gnome-elves. Fear them.
Glimmin Goodhand
Master Glimmin's Locks and Keys: http://glimmin.nfshost.com
See a picture of Glimmin at: http://www.brighnasa.com/Chibis/Glimmin.jpg
>Among PCs interracial relations is very common, very few PCs treat this as deviant behavior. Would or should it be considered deviant? >>
Such acts would be found as vile by most respectable elves. I imagine proud races like Dwarves and Giantkin would also look down upon such behavior.
To cultures like the Faendryl and Dhe'nar, mating with a halfling would be akin to sleeping with a rolton.
One thing to always keep in mind, however. Most people do not roleplay their race or culture.
Evarin and his Mis'ri
Such acts would be found as vile by most respectable elves. I imagine proud races like Dwarves and Giantkin would also look down upon such behavior.
To cultures like the Faendryl and Dhe'nar, mating with a halfling would be akin to sleeping with a rolton.
One thing to always keep in mind, however. Most people do not roleplay their race or culture.
Evarin and his Mis'ri
I think DR has a chart of which races are able to interbreed. Unfortunately, there isn't one of these for GS. From what I've read, humans, elves, and half-elves are able to interbreed with success, as well as humans, krolvin, giantkin, and, I would assume, half-krolvin.
As far as it being deviant, I don't know about Krol and giants, but I'd say that most elves and humans would think so, and most half-elves wouldn't really care much. There are always exceptions, of course.
-Yipsy's player
As far as it being deviant, I don't know about Krol and giants, but I'd say that most elves and humans would think so, and most half-elves wouldn't really care much. There are always exceptions, of course.
-Yipsy's player
The Krolvin can only successfully mate with humans and Giantmen. Breeding between Krol and other races is always referenced as occuring with a Krol father and a non-Krol mother. Dwarven women never became pregnant by Krol men. Elven and Halfling women physically are unable to come to term with half-krol fetuses.
Theoretically, it might be possible for a krol woman to give birth to an elven/halfling mixed child, but half-breeds born of Krol women are rare and far between, so the odds are extremely unlikely in such cases.
<<1. Among PCs interracial relations is very common, very few PCs treat this as deviant behavior. Would or should it be considered deviant?
I think in the world of Elanthia, interracial couples are anything but the norm. Several of my characters frown upon such relationships, the manner in which they display this differs according to their personality. the ultimate issue is that a very large percentage players simply do not take race into account when it comes to friendship and relationships. This in turn leads to the world we have today. ;)
Rail
~The Turamzzyrian Imperial Museum of History~
Theoretically, it might be possible for a krol woman to give birth to an elven/halfling mixed child, but half-breeds born of Krol women are rare and far between, so the odds are extremely unlikely in such cases.
<<1. Among PCs interracial relations is very common, very few PCs treat this as deviant behavior. Would or should it be considered deviant?
I think in the world of Elanthia, interracial couples are anything but the norm. Several of my characters frown upon such relationships, the manner in which they display this differs according to their personality. the ultimate issue is that a very large percentage players simply do not take race into account when it comes to friendship and relationships. This in turn leads to the world we have today. ;)
Rail
~The Turamzzyrian Imperial Museum of History~
Well ... the current racial documentation plainly implies that interracial relations (no less than in Earth's history) are officially felt to be disgusting and wrong.
Unfortunately, that documentation came out long, long after such relations were commomplace in Gemstone. It strikes me that it's far better to go with what the players decided on their own to do during the long years in which Simu declined to provide significant racial docs than to buck the trend.
~ bob
Visit Ravenswing Imports, 2nd block of the Spiral in Solhaven! http://www.playershops.com/RavenswingImports
Unfortunately, that documentation came out long, long after such relations were commomplace in Gemstone. It strikes me that it's far better to go with what the players decided on their own to do during the long years in which Simu declined to provide significant racial docs than to buck the trend.
~ bob
Visit Ravenswing Imports, 2nd block of the Spiral in Solhaven! http://www.playershops.com/RavenswingImports
IOI: 2
>the ultimate issue is that a very large percentage players simply do not take race into account when it comes to friendship and relationships.
The two areas that I find are most often neglected are those of age and logistics/appearance.
For an elf, especially a middle-aged one (say, a few hundred years old), the concept of being short-lived like basically any other race would probably be tough to wrap your head around. It'd be like being a 40 year old and knowing that most people live until they're 8. Relationships especially would be very awkward, because the elf would be virtually guaranteed that, barring their own premature demise, they're going to outlive their non-elven partner by several hundred years.
Half-elves complicate the situation even more, as most half-elves have a lifespan in between their two parents. That means that most likely, they're going to live way beyond their human parent. Additionally, their elven parent will probably get to watch their child be born, grow up, get old, and die. That's not really something a parent usually wants. I'd imagine most elves who have a long-term relationship with a human would only have the one, especially if it includes children.
For logistics, this doesn't really impact most of the similarly-built races (humans, the various elves, half-krol, and, to a lesser extent, giants). The difference in build between a dwarf and a human, though, is enough to cause logisitical difficulties in a physical relationship. It's hard enough to kiss someone who's 8 inches shorter than you, someone 3 feet shorter would be extremely awkward.
As far as appearance, most people will have grown up almost exclusively among their own race. If you're a human from the Empire or an elf from the Nations, that's very likely to be true; it's less so if you're another race (especially if you're a Burghal Gnome). That would mean that standards of beauty for your own race would be the ones that are most firmly implanted in your mind. Most humans would consider half-krol and giants to appear brutish and halflings and gnomes to appear childish, while giantmen and half-krol would take humans and especially elves to look frail and weak, and halflings or gnomes would look positively delicate. And for Aelotoi, who wouldn't have even heard of giantmen or halflings until a year and a half ago, basically everyone but humans would probably look like they were out of a fairy tale.
- Ildran
>the ultimate issue is that a very large percentage players simply do not take race into account when it comes to friendship and relationships.
The two areas that I find are most often neglected are those of age and logistics/appearance.
For an elf, especially a middle-aged one (say, a few hundred years old), the concept of being short-lived like basically any other race would probably be tough to wrap your head around. It'd be like being a 40 year old and knowing that most people live until they're 8. Relationships especially would be very awkward, because the elf would be virtually guaranteed that, barring their own premature demise, they're going to outlive their non-elven partner by several hundred years.
Half-elves complicate the situation even more, as most half-elves have a lifespan in between their two parents. That means that most likely, they're going to live way beyond their human parent. Additionally, their elven parent will probably get to watch their child be born, grow up, get old, and die. That's not really something a parent usually wants. I'd imagine most elves who have a long-term relationship with a human would only have the one, especially if it includes children.
For logistics, this doesn't really impact most of the similarly-built races (humans, the various elves, half-krol, and, to a lesser extent, giants). The difference in build between a dwarf and a human, though, is enough to cause logisitical difficulties in a physical relationship. It's hard enough to kiss someone who's 8 inches shorter than you, someone 3 feet shorter would be extremely awkward.
As far as appearance, most people will have grown up almost exclusively among their own race. If you're a human from the Empire or an elf from the Nations, that's very likely to be true; it's less so if you're another race (especially if you're a Burghal Gnome). That would mean that standards of beauty for your own race would be the ones that are most firmly implanted in your mind. Most humans would consider half-krol and giants to appear brutish and halflings and gnomes to appear childish, while giantmen and half-krol would take humans and especially elves to look frail and weak, and halflings or gnomes would look positively delicate. And for Aelotoi, who wouldn't have even heard of giantmen or halflings until a year and a half ago, basically everyone but humans would probably look like they were out of a fairy tale.
- Ildran
>And for Aelotoi, who wouldn't have even heard of giantmen or halflings until a year and a half ago, basically everyone but humans would probably look like they were out of a fairy tale.
And even then humans have their differences. As my bug would put it, they have grossly undersized heads for their bodies, and tiny beady little eyes.
Asmodea Drey'Haus
http://www.playershops.com/Asmodea
And even then humans have their differences. As my bug would put it, they have grossly undersized heads for their bodies, and tiny beady little eyes.
Asmodea Drey'Haus
http://www.playershops.com/Asmodea
I agree more with Bob's post than I disagree with the rest. First, as players, I believe we have a generally difficult fostering rascism even if it's just roleplay. Some excel at it, while most might feel they should be...but for one I have a very hard time following through with it. Secondly, we "adventurers" are more likely to mix racially and more likely to become emotionally attached to a person of another race than a "commoner" would.
Lastly, while I might agree with the documentation on ability to reproduce, I do know that physical pleasure and emotional love could be achieved between races. Now, since half-krol were brought up, I'd say they are the most racially compatible of all races. Rail, the facts you posted were regarding full krol and not really half-krol breeding ability. KROLVIN cannot reproduce properly with elves but from the sounds of the docs, it's likely a half-krol could if they had human blood, in my opinion. Also, I'd tend to think they could breed with half-elves, humans, half-krols, krols and giantkin. Only the shortest races and dwarves are completely incapable of reproduction with them. Atleast, I think, the docs said dwarves and krol were completely incapable of it, which leads me to believe that would be so for half-krol.
That's my take.
~Galenok
Lastly, while I might agree with the documentation on ability to reproduce, I do know that physical pleasure and emotional love could be achieved between races. Now, since half-krol were brought up, I'd say they are the most racially compatible of all races. Rail, the facts you posted were regarding full krol and not really half-krol breeding ability. KROLVIN cannot reproduce properly with elves but from the sounds of the docs, it's likely a half-krol could if they had human blood, in my opinion. Also, I'd tend to think they could breed with half-elves, humans, half-krols, krols and giantkin. Only the shortest races and dwarves are completely incapable of reproduction with them. Atleast, I think, the docs said dwarves and krol were completely incapable of it, which leads me to believe that would be so for half-krol.
That's my take.
~Galenok
<<KROLVIN cannot reproduce properly with elves but from the sounds of the docs, it's likely a half-krol could if they had human blood, in my opinion. Also, I'd tend to think they could breed with half-elves, humans, half-krols, krols and giantkin. Only the shortest races and dwarves are completely incapable of reproduction with them. Atleast, I think, the docs said dwarves and krol were completely incapable of it, which leads me to believe that would be so for half-krol.
I think it'd really depend on how the human blood affected the half-krol. The reason elves and halflings cannot give birth to the children of Krol entirely concerns the fetus being too much for them to biologically handle. Half-Krol are by no means little people, and the ability to mate with other races would depend very heavily on how the fetus with a half-krol as one parent developed in size. At best, I'd consider the matter a risky thing, with the lives of the mother and the child by no means guaranteed.
Due to the fact that half-elves are supposed to only come from humans and elves, it indicates that giantmen cannot have children with elves. In turn, giantmen I would consider to be of a similiar physical stature as half-krol (especially when one might have been one of the parents!). Thus, again, if I had to bet mony on the matter, I'd consider half-krol incapable of having children with no races other than humans, giantmen, and Krol.
Rail
~The Turamzzyrian Imperial Museum of History~
I think it'd really depend on how the human blood affected the half-krol. The reason elves and halflings cannot give birth to the children of Krol entirely concerns the fetus being too much for them to biologically handle. Half-Krol are by no means little people, and the ability to mate with other races would depend very heavily on how the fetus with a half-krol as one parent developed in size. At best, I'd consider the matter a risky thing, with the lives of the mother and the child by no means guaranteed.
Due to the fact that half-elves are supposed to only come from humans and elves, it indicates that giantmen cannot have children with elves. In turn, giantmen I would consider to be of a similiar physical stature as half-krol (especially when one might have been one of the parents!). Thus, again, if I had to bet mony on the matter, I'd consider half-krol incapable of having children with no races other than humans, giantmen, and Krol.
Rail
~The Turamzzyrian Imperial Museum of History~
Galenok -
Beyond that, a common syndrome in many "roleplaying" environments is that IC trappings are only a patina covering 21st century Westerners playing dress-up. This is especially the case in settings where there is no particular advantage to staying in character, Gemstone being one of them. Matters of race and culture are often seen as no more important -- and usually less so -- than level, stats, magical gear and skill selection.
As such, most characters are portrayed (to the extent that they ever are) with 21st century Western notions of equality, social and sexual mores and other ideologies. There may be a single distinguishing element, and one alone: a player of a Vaalor Elf may scream at dwarves and humans (at least once he gets to a level where he thinks he can slap them around with impunity), a player of a Luukosian /Sheruvian /Mularosian may Act Evil And Wear Black With Skulls, but's that's as far as that goes. I had an interesting chat with a friend a while back who was mulling over to what deity to convert her new paladin, and she shied away from those three faiths simply because they are so often and thinly stereotyped as Generic Evil.
~ bob
Visit Ravenswing Imports, 2nd block of the Spiral in Solhaven! http://www.playershops.com/RavenswingImports
Beyond that, a common syndrome in many "roleplaying" environments is that IC trappings are only a patina covering 21st century Westerners playing dress-up. This is especially the case in settings where there is no particular advantage to staying in character, Gemstone being one of them. Matters of race and culture are often seen as no more important -- and usually less so -- than level, stats, magical gear and skill selection.
As such, most characters are portrayed (to the extent that they ever are) with 21st century Western notions of equality, social and sexual mores and other ideologies. There may be a single distinguishing element, and one alone: a player of a Vaalor Elf may scream at dwarves and humans (at least once he gets to a level where he thinks he can slap them around with impunity), a player of a Luukosian /Sheruvian /Mularosian may Act Evil And Wear Black With Skulls, but's that's as far as that goes. I had an interesting chat with a friend a while back who was mulling over to what deity to convert her new paladin, and she shied away from those three faiths simply because they are so often and thinly stereotyped as Generic Evil.
~ bob
Visit Ravenswing Imports, 2nd block of the Spiral in Solhaven! http://www.playershops.com/RavenswingImports
<<Beyond that, a common syndrome in many "roleplaying" environments is that IC trappings are only a patina covering 21st century Westerners playing dress-up. This is especially the case in settings where there is no particular advantage to staying in character, Gemstone being one of them. Matters of race and culture are often seen as no more important -- and usually less so -- than level, stats, magical gear and skill selection.
I entirely agree with the above. Though, I'll add there is a slight advantage to being in character, that being roleplaying awards. Note, I said slight.
Rail
~The Turamzzyrian Imperial Museum of History~
I entirely agree with the above. Though, I'll add there is a slight advantage to being in character, that being roleplaying awards. Note, I said slight.
Rail
~The Turamzzyrian Imperial Museum of History~
>Half-elves complicate the situation even more, as most half-elves have a lifespan in between their two parents
My half-elf I managed to keep his old age set at over 1000(before the changes went through). WHich helped my RP with him(seeing Kai Toka).
Your two silvers...
"There certainly is alot of undead in a world where dying never really happens."
My half-elf I managed to keep his old age set at over 1000(before the changes went through). WHich helped my RP with him(seeing Kai Toka).
Your two silvers...
"There certainly is alot of undead in a world where dying never really happens."
<<I entirely agree with the above. Though, I'll add there is a slight advantage to being in character, that being roleplaying awards. Note, I said slight.>>
I'd say not even that much. All that RP comes at the expense of being out in hunting areas. I'd be surprised if the ratio of RPAs I've had resting between hunts compared with those at performance festivals, goofing around in town and suchlike was as much as 1:20. At my level and rate of absorption, just attending Bardfest (say) means close to half a level's worth of hunting XP lost.
~ bob
Visit Ravenswing Imports, 2nd block of the Spiral in Solhaven! http://www.playershops.com/RavenswingImports
I'd say not even that much. All that RP comes at the expense of being out in hunting areas. I'd be surprised if the ratio of RPAs I've had resting between hunts compared with those at performance festivals, goofing around in town and suchlike was as much as 1:20. At my level and rate of absorption, just attending Bardfest (say) means close to half a level's worth of hunting XP lost.
~ bob
Visit Ravenswing Imports, 2nd block of the Spiral in Solhaven! http://www.playershops.com/RavenswingImports
>To cultures like the Faendryl and Dhe'nar, mating with a halfling would be akin to sleeping with a rolton.
More like a rabbit or a gopher :->
Sea Witch
Couturiere et Sorciere
"The voice of the sea speaks to the soul. The touch of the sea is sensuous, enfolding the body in its soft, close embrace." Kate Chopin
More like a rabbit or a gopher :->
Sea Witch
Couturiere et Sorciere
"The voice of the sea speaks to the soul. The touch of the sea is sensuous, enfolding the body in its soft, close embrace." Kate Chopin
I can honestly say that most of my characters are half-elves who are "painfully" aware of their half-elf status.
One, the Tehir, views her mixed parenting as a blessing because of the way her tribe viewed the relation.
One, Charna, views herself as inferior to nearly everyone around her. All of her insecurities stem from the fact that she is half-elven. As to many of her phobias and shyness. Any criticism given to her, any harsh comment, any slight is taken as meaning she's inferior because she's only half-elven.
As such. I can assure you that Charna is painfully aware of this where relationships go. She's aware of the races around her and how her own body, and race, can hinder or change that relationship. She has an underlying current of prejudice though I think perhaps that word is far too strong. She has been known to love many different people, her heart knows no bound but at the same time her body does and eventually she realizes it on a concious level.
As for my other characters that aren't half-elven. They are exceedingly prejudice because, let's face it, that is how the documents are written and this is the norm. Or supposed to be.
Charna
Nyrithorn says in elven, "She's speaking psycho speak. One of our brothers killed our mother for speaking it."
www.gemstone.game-host.org/towncorpse
www.gemstone.game-host.org/festivalofcontemplation
www.gemstone.game-host.org/foa
One, the Tehir, views her mixed parenting as a blessing because of the way her tribe viewed the relation.
One, Charna, views herself as inferior to nearly everyone around her. All of her insecurities stem from the fact that she is half-elven. As to many of her phobias and shyness. Any criticism given to her, any harsh comment, any slight is taken as meaning she's inferior because she's only half-elven.
As such. I can assure you that Charna is painfully aware of this where relationships go. She's aware of the races around her and how her own body, and race, can hinder or change that relationship. She has an underlying current of prejudice though I think perhaps that word is far too strong. She has been known to love many different people, her heart knows no bound but at the same time her body does and eventually she realizes it on a concious level.
As for my other characters that aren't half-elven. They are exceedingly prejudice because, let's face it, that is how the documents are written and this is the norm. Or supposed to be.
Charna
Nyrithorn says in elven, "She's speaking psycho speak. One of our brothers killed our mother for speaking it."
www.gemstone.game-host.org/towncorpse
www.gemstone.game-host.org/festivalofcontemplation
www.gemstone.game-host.org/foa
<<As far as it being deviant, I don't know about Krol and giants, but I'd say that most elves and humans would think so, and most half-elves wouldn't really care much. There are always exceptions, of course.
-Yipsy's player>>
I think most half-elves would care to the extent that their predominant culture cares. Most half-elves are still raised within one of two main cultures, either human or elven. They would adopt their culture's biases regarding races and co-mingling. As you said, there are always exceptions, and there would be more exceptions among half-elves than those of pure blood. But in general, in Elanthia as a whole, half-elves would exhibit most of the same attitudes on what is considered deviant.
Zyllah
-Yipsy's player>>
I think most half-elves would care to the extent that their predominant culture cares. Most half-elves are still raised within one of two main cultures, either human or elven. They would adopt their culture's biases regarding races and co-mingling. As you said, there are always exceptions, and there would be more exceptions among half-elves than those of pure blood. But in general, in Elanthia as a whole, half-elves would exhibit most of the same attitudes on what is considered deviant.
Zyllah
