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I want to make a bard. A locksmithing bard. An as-pure-as-a-locksmithing-bard-can-be bard. I have been wracking my brain for days. This is what I've figured out so far.
The basic stuff is:
35 ranks Armor Use
1x Physical Fitness
1x Harness Power
24 ranks EMC
75 ranks Manipulation Lore
30 ranks each climb/swim
1x Bard Songs
30 Minor Elemental Spells
The obvious weapon choice for this character seems to be ranged. He is a giantman to boot. Perception already has to be there, might as well use it. Cheaper than any other weapon type and shield. The problem is, there just aren't enough TPs. I have been thinking about not having 2x. Honestly, if I am only using my bow to pick off things that survive my 1030, is it going to hurt THAT much to lose 50 AS and put those points towards other things until post-cap?
Another thing I am toying with is air lore. Since I won't be using sonic weapons or shields, the only benefit I am looking at is 30 ranks for 1 second longbow shots with tonis. That certainly seems very useful, but oh the TPs.
The best lock skills that I've been able to work up so far while maintaining a strong enough hunting ability is 2x locks, 1.8x traps, 1.5x perception. I can swap that with 2x locks, 1.5x disarm, and 1.9x perception. That is with only 1.5x ranged.
I am basing all these numbers off of stats set for optimization at cap, not TP optimization. I will have all 100's except for an 81 in wisdom, and I want them that way. I will set stats for something like a level 60 at the end of the 30 days, then work towards a fixstat. I don't want to hit level 80 and use a potion and lose skills, so I'm planning it out this way on purpose.
That's all I'm going to throw out there right now, I'm sure there will be more to come. I would appreciate any thoughts, opinions, suggestions. Certainly tell me if I'm wrong about something or could do it better.
What level is the bard currently?
My initial thought is that you'll very much need to 1x dodge as an archer, which you have not factored into your training. Personally, if you are going to go pure bard I don't think picking will work. Not until post cap. Obviously, you are not a heavy pure (lacking some spells) but that seems to be the direction. Muddying the waters with ranged is unwise.
Assuming you wish to fixskill into your listed training, then your initial training path should be more picking/archery oriented with the goal of swapping that archery out for a more pure role around level 40-50. I believe brawling is typically the weapon training most pure bards choose based on the open handed DS, along with heavy shield use. You're trying to do pure bard, archery and locksmithing. I do not believe it will work with all that on your plate. Could you eventually pick for someone? I think but certainly not your own boxes with consistency. Perhaps get the perception and disarm, then use 407 to pop them?
~Galenok
My initial thought is that you'll very much need to 1x dodge as an archer, which you have not factored into your training. Personally, if you are going to go pure bard I don't think picking will work. Not until post cap. Obviously, you are not a heavy pure (lacking some spells) but that seems to be the direction. Muddying the waters with ranged is unwise.
Assuming you wish to fixskill into your listed training, then your initial training path should be more picking/archery oriented with the goal of swapping that archery out for a more pure role around level 40-50. I believe brawling is typically the weapon training most pure bards choose based on the open handed DS, along with heavy shield use. You're trying to do pure bard, archery and locksmithing. I do not believe it will work with all that on your plate. Could you eventually pick for someone? I think but certainly not your own boxes with consistency. Perhaps get the perception and disarm, then use 407 to pop them?
~Galenok
The bard is only level 7, just started him. I am hoping to get a training plan nailed down that I can actually just start with at the end of the 30 days, which for me will mean somewhere in the level 15-20 range.
Ok, I have revisited the spreadsheet and have a new plan to toss out.
By dropping songs down to 75 at cap I free up enough points that I could have 1.5x shield, 1.5x brawl, 2x pick, 2x disarm, and 1.5x perception. This gives me a 420 bard CS. Now, it also leaves me with enough TPs to do any one of the following...
1. 50 air lore (1 second swings, flares, 2 ranks sonic shield reduction)
2. 2x perception, brawl or shield to 1.75x, 95 PTP left over
3. 2x perception, 80 bard songs (425 CS), minor song defense boost
4. 1.75x perception, 85 bard songs (430 CS), more minor song defense boost
5. 2x brawl and shield
6. 30 air lore (1 second swings, flares, 1 rank sonic shield reduction), other tps into whatever
Are these CS numbers going to be high enough to use 1030 as a staple at the higher levels? Will 1.5x shield and brawl really suffice? Is 2x perception any real noticeable difference from 1.5x for picking? Why can't I just play what I really want to, a robes and runestaff pure/thrower/picker bard!?
Ok, I have revisited the spreadsheet and have a new plan to toss out.
By dropping songs down to 75 at cap I free up enough points that I could have 1.5x shield, 1.5x brawl, 2x pick, 2x disarm, and 1.5x perception. This gives me a 420 bard CS. Now, it also leaves me with enough TPs to do any one of the following...
1. 50 air lore (1 second swings, flares, 2 ranks sonic shield reduction)
2. 2x perception, brawl or shield to 1.75x, 95 PTP left over
3. 2x perception, 80 bard songs (425 CS), minor song defense boost
4. 1.75x perception, 85 bard songs (430 CS), more minor song defense boost
5. 2x brawl and shield
6. 30 air lore (1 second swings, flares, 1 rank sonic shield reduction), other tps into whatever
Are these CS numbers going to be high enough to use 1030 as a staple at the higher levels? Will 1.5x shield and brawl really suffice? Is 2x perception any real noticeable difference from 1.5x for picking? Why can't I just play what I really want to, a robes and runestaff pure/thrower/picker bard!?
Question is how do you see the combats being played out?
- Primarily bow (with spells as set-up or clean-up)?
- Or primarily spell (with bow to polish off)?
EL:Air Lore:
- faster RT from Tonis/1035;
- more damage on Banshee's Wail/1008.
ML:Manipulation:
- more damage on Disruption/1030;
- more AS on Dancing Weapon/1025 (note that a bow can be summoned now...).
(Note too that you can single in both Lores, paying only the single-training cost (1x + 1x) versus double-training in a Lore and paying more (1x + 2x); this is a substantial training point savings benefit.)
Mana Control
- If you're going to sink 24 ranks of MC:Elemental, you may as well get the extra 6 ranks so that you get the +1 mana/pulse.
- Personally--and particularly since you plan to have so many Songs known--I would take MC:Mental instead, and be able to benefit from Unravel/1013.
- Primarily bow (with spells as set-up or clean-up)?
- Or primarily spell (with bow to polish off)?
EL:Air Lore:
- faster RT from Tonis/1035;
- more damage on Banshee's Wail/1008.
ML:Manipulation:
- more damage on Disruption/1030;
- more AS on Dancing Weapon/1025 (note that a bow can be summoned now...).
(Note too that you can single in both Lores, paying only the single-training cost (1x + 1x) versus double-training in a Lore and paying more (1x + 2x); this is a substantial training point savings benefit.)
Mana Control
- If you're going to sink 24 ranks of MC:Elemental, you may as well get the extra 6 ranks so that you get the +1 mana/pulse.
- Personally--and particularly since you plan to have so many Songs known--I would take MC:Mental instead, and be able to benefit from Unravel/1013.
I want the character to become as pure as possible while being a picker, using a weapon type to finish off stunned/prone creatures. I am by no means completely sold on a weapon style, I am still looking at them all and trying to weigh them. One thing that is important, though, is that I am trying to find a way to do that with the same weapon type from start to finish. I don't want to use a bow for 40 levels, and then all the sudden switch to shield and brawling. The only exception to that is if I ever get a returner or bandolier, at which point I will immediately fixskill into a pure/picker/thrower bard, and all the world shall tremble at my might.
Okay, using myself, about 1 mil post cap bard with balanced stats at cap, and checking into an inn to retrain it can't be done...at least not perfectly. By perfect, I mean balanced defense and an offensive pure and be as good a picker as possible.
All I can manage is to be mediocre at everything with a lean toward being able to cast better than you can defend or pick.
1.5x picking and disarming. I tried ranged and you end up with zero dodge. You need that for defense, even just .75x is better than nothing. I tried brawling. You end up with being about 1.5x in shield and brawl. That might be close but it still leaves you short with the locksmithing. What you can do is ranged and picking. Being a pure eats up too many of the mental tp's that you need for picking or vice versa. I don't like telling people something cannot be done as a bard but you are trying too hard to do too many things.
The only way this works is if you tank your physical stats, go heavy on all mental stats and then things like CON and AGI won't reach 100 at cap. Reaching 100's in nearly all stats requires very specific placement at creation and your plan requires a ton of mtp's. Assuming I was going to attempt this, I'd probably go 2x shield and try to eke out 1x brawl. This isn't enough to kill anything with, even stunned or lullabyed. You'd have no CM leaving you open to any cman and lowering your AS even more. You hunt like a pure, kill with your spells and don't worry about cleaning up with a weapon. You'd essentially be a cross between a picker and an empath/warding-wizard. Lastly, you'd have no air lore or telepathy lore. Just the 75 ranks of manipulation.
I like the picking route along with maybe being pure. I don't like trying to finish things off with any sort of weapon because you can't feasibly get to the point where it works. Download Tsoran's old spreadsheet for Excel and try it. If you can't get it, there's little way to prove to you it won't work at any rate. What are you willing to give up in order to do one or the other?
~Galenok
All I can manage is to be mediocre at everything with a lean toward being able to cast better than you can defend or pick.
1.5x picking and disarming. I tried ranged and you end up with zero dodge. You need that for defense, even just .75x is better than nothing. I tried brawling. You end up with being about 1.5x in shield and brawl. That might be close but it still leaves you short with the locksmithing. What you can do is ranged and picking. Being a pure eats up too many of the mental tp's that you need for picking or vice versa. I don't like telling people something cannot be done as a bard but you are trying too hard to do too many things.
The only way this works is if you tank your physical stats, go heavy on all mental stats and then things like CON and AGI won't reach 100 at cap. Reaching 100's in nearly all stats requires very specific placement at creation and your plan requires a ton of mtp's. Assuming I was going to attempt this, I'd probably go 2x shield and try to eke out 1x brawl. This isn't enough to kill anything with, even stunned or lullabyed. You'd have no CM leaving you open to any cman and lowering your AS even more. You hunt like a pure, kill with your spells and don't worry about cleaning up with a weapon. You'd essentially be a cross between a picker and an empath/warding-wizard. Lastly, you'd have no air lore or telepathy lore. Just the 75 ranks of manipulation.
I like the picking route along with maybe being pure. I don't like trying to finish things off with any sort of weapon because you can't feasibly get to the point where it works. Download Tsoran's old spreadsheet for Excel and try it. If you can't get it, there's little way to prove to you it won't work at any rate. What are you willing to give up in order to do one or the other?
~Galenok
I think this plan is doable if you only do 1.5x ranged 1.5x perception starting off and single spells, and .5x to .75x dodge. I would fight the urge to get lores besides telepathy at the moment since you are tight on mtp. until about 50 trains 1x ranged is sufficient to hunt because you can use 1002, 1005 to set up and drop alot of DS from your target. Also the bonus from kai's will help make up any AS gap you might see from not 2x'ing ranged right away. finally all these things and this plan will be much easier if you can find a reliable hunting partner. there is nothing wrong with being mediocre as long as you get the job done.
Archales
Archales
Your plan for locksmithing bard + whatever style is easily doable.
Your problem is thinking that you need to over 1x perception to locksmith, when it's not necessary. that rank over 1x of perception is nearly costing you the 1x lore that you wanted (manipulation for your 1030 attacks)
You can easily make an amazing 1 second aimed archer/locksmith with 2x range/2x perception/.5x dodge if you drop to 1x spells.
or you can make your higher CS pure/locksmith by going 2x shield/1x brawl or ohe and 1.5x spells.
both of those path includes all the basics you listed before.
You won't be able to make a strong physical attacker, full locksmith. over train spells AND train all the basics you listed.
Your problem is thinking that you need to over 1x perception to locksmith, when it's not necessary. that rank over 1x of perception is nearly costing you the 1x lore that you wanted (manipulation for your 1030 attacks)
You can easily make an amazing 1 second aimed archer/locksmith with 2x range/2x perception/.5x dodge if you drop to 1x spells.
or you can make your higher CS pure/locksmith by going 2x shield/1x brawl or ohe and 1.5x spells.
both of those path includes all the basics you listed before.
You won't be able to make a strong physical attacker, full locksmith. over train spells AND train all the basics you listed.
I should add, the reason why 1x perception is just fine for locksmithing is 402 and 404. higher ranks in the elementals will increase it's bonus.
and also if you choose the archer route. those spells with 2x perception. your eye shots will be superb. If the creature happens to be snoozing at your feet after a lullyable, you should kick yourself if you miss.
and also if you choose the archer route. those spells with 2x perception. your eye shots will be superb. If the creature happens to be snoozing at your feet after a lullyable, you should kick yourself if you miss.
