Ok technical question

Just got a monk up to 10
Fully 2x in brawl
The handwraps are blessed.

So I got some of the back room handwraps that are 4x and I have a yierka spur with flares that is 4x.


Im seeing the 4x bonus from the handwraps. But im only seeing a 2x bonus from the weapon.

I know the flares are only supposed to work at half frequency, but is that true for the enchant too?

I thought the enchant for approved uac weapons added directly to the UAF

#s below on example


You attempt to punch a cobra!
You have decent positioning against a cobra.
UAF: 117 vs UDF: 21 = 2.000 (capped) * MM: 82 + d100: 55 = 219
... and hit for 64 points of damage!
Blow to kidney!
The cobra is sliced neatly in two.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
A cobra just slithered in.
>
A cobra tries to bite you!
AS: +68 vs DS: +159 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +37 = -21
A clean miss.
>
A cobra tries to bite you!
AS: +68 vs DS: +159 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +63 = +5
A clean miss.
>stow yier
You put a stylized vultite yierka-spur with needle-sharp tips in your obsidian suede coat.
>punc
You attempt to punch a cobra!
You have decent positioning against a cobra.
UAF: 107 vs UDF: 21 = 2.000 (capped) * MM: 92 + d100: 72 = 256
... and hit for 64 points of damage!
Spinning backfist bruises internal organs.
The cobra is sliced neatly in two.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

---

Shop my shops:
Corlith in the landing:
http://pshops.lichproject.org/shops/5958
Arcania's Arms in Vaalor: http://pshops.lichproject.org/shops/4115

Unarmed Attack Factor (UAF) Formula

(Brawling Ranks × 2) + (CM Ranks / 2) + (STR bonus / 2) + (AGI bonus / 2) + (glove/boot enchant bonus/es) + (AVG held weapon enchant bonus / 2).


Quoted from KP after searching for uaf

Hope this helps

Lochiven

Thanks.

No I just stupidly copied the formula down wrong it seems.

I missed the /2 for weapons enchant.

---

Shop my shops:
Corlith in the landing:
http://pshops.lichproject.org/shops/5958
Arcania's Arms in Vaalor: http://pshops.lichproject.org/shops/4115

RATHBONER

The main disadvantage to holding some weapon or other is the loss of the experience bonus you get from empty hands. You have to get to a pretty high level before empty hands is mechanically competitive. (Just where, I don't know because I haven't figured out the exact way DF factors into crit rank yet).

That was an oversight that will be remedied soon.

GameMaster Estild

The MM penalties for held UCS friendly weapons are mechanically significant. Also once a monk gets 1214 the chance to auto disarm on a parry while empty handed is quite advantageous. So far I've "felt" that the flares and increased UAF from the held UCS friendly weapons were not worth the MM penalties.

As for the increased exp absorption, meh its relatively minor in the scheme of things for most non power players. Probably they'll decide to just remove the held weapon penalty for everyone.

I'm not big with this level of combat numbers, but I want to understand this, so please bear with me!

punch v scale, empty hands

UAF: 200 vs UDF: 150 = 1.33 * MM: 120 + d100: 50 = 210

110 * .200 = 22

punch v scale, 4x knuckleblade

UAF: 210 vs UDF: 150 = 1.4 * MM: 110 + d100: 50 = 204

104 * .250 = 26

I'm failing to see why adding a second knuckle-blade isn't advantageous?

punch v scale, two 4x knuckleblades

UAF: 220 vs UDF: 150 = 1.466 * MM: 100 + d100: 50 = 196

110 * .300 = 28.8 (does this round up or truncate? Either way, higher than 26)

What am I missing?

I figure I might as well finish out a chart, at this rate.

All numbers assume JAB attack with a base UAF of 200, UDF of 150, base MM of 100, and d100 roll of 50. The numbers in the chart are the raw damage (endroll * DF) according to the aforementioned numbers.

(I'm also not sure what truncates and what rounds, so I'll just post the decimals.)

"Light" refers to a cestus, paingrip, or razorpaw.
"Medium" refers to a knuckle-blade or knuckle-duster.
"Heavy" refers to a tiger-claw or yierka-spur.

Empty	Cloth	Leather	Scale	Chain	Plate
vs.	8.333	6.25	5	4.166	2.916
Single Light	Cloth	Leather	Scale	Chain	Plate
Weapon vs.	10.375	8.3	7.055	6.225	4.98
Double Light	Cloth	Leather	Scale	Chain	Plate
Weapon vs.	12.3	10.25	9.02	8.2	6.97
Single Medium	Cloth	Leather	Scale	Chain	Plate
Weapon vs.	11.4	9.5	8.36	7.6	6.46
Double Medium	Cloth	Leather	Scale	Chain	Plate
Weapon vs.	13.466	11.783	10.773	10.1	9.09
Single Heavy	Cloth	Leather	Scale	Chain	Plate
Weapon vs.	12.075	10.35	9.315	8.625	7.59
Double Heavy	Cloth	Leather	Scale	Chain	Plate
Weapon vs.	13.166	11.85	11.06	10.533	9.743

It looks to me like using two heavy weapons yields the most damage, but it also yields the lowest endrolls on the same d100 roll. So I guess as long as you can muster the UAF to consistently hit your target...wouldn't two heavies be the way to go?

Here's punch versus plate, for comparison.

punch v plate, empty hands
UAF: 200 vs UDF: 150 = 1.33 * MM: 100 + d100: 50 = 183
83 * .140 = 11.62

punch v plate, 4x cestus
UAF: 210 vs UDF: 150 = 1.4 * MM: 95 + d100: 50 = 183
83 * .165 = 13.7

punch v plate, 4x cestus x2
UAF: 210 vs UDF: 150 = 1.4 * MM: 90 + d100: 50 = 176
76 * .190 = 14.44

punch v plate, 4x knuckleblade
UAF: 210 vs UDF: 150 = 1.4 * MM: 90 + d100: 50 = 176
76 * .190 = 14.44

punch v plate, 4x knuckleblade x2
UAF: 210 vs UDF: 150 = 1.4 * MM: 80 + d100: 50 = 162
62 * .240 = 14.88

punch v plate, 4x tiger claw
UAF: 210 vs UDF: 150 = 1.4 * MM: 85 + d100: 50 = 169
69 * .215 = 14.84

punch v plate, 4x tiger claw x2
UAF: 210 vs UDF: 150 = 1.4 * MM: 70 + d100: 50 = 148
48 * .290 = 13.92

Droit

---

Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""

That's a fair point, but you could achieve higher endrolls with higher enchant weapons assuming you're not already capping your ratio--and if you are, you're probably not having a problem with UAC anyway.

Droit

---

Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""

>That's a fair point, but you could achieve higher endrolls with higher enchant weapons assuming you're not already capping your ratio--and if you are, you're probably not having a problem with UAC anyway.

At 10 MM penalty you need about the maximum enchant you can hold in order to balance out the penalty to hit from MM with the enchant bonus. Higher penalties from heavier weapons and you will be getting into the region where you need an enchant higher than you can hold in order to balance out the MM penalty.

What interests me is how holding a weapon affects the probabilities of this sort of thing happening.

...

[A Frozen Battlefield]
The warped remains of a large wooden wagon sit smothered deep in the snowpack, only one corner and a slowly turning wheel still visible. Loud shuffling noises can be heard from all directions, any ability to determine their source dissolving in the low fog blanketing the ground. You also see an acid-pitted mithril coffer and an ice troll.
Obvious paths: north, east, southeast, south, west, northwest
>
You take a deep breath and focus inward, raising a hand and quietly murmuring the words of the Force Projection spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an ice troll.
A translucent force moves outward from you and toward an ice troll.
An ice troll is buffeted by the force and is knocked to the ground.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)
>stance offensive
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
[Roll result: 186 (open d100: 75) Penalties: 5]
You feint low, the ice troll buys the ruse and twists awkwardly to block the blow that never came!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
You attempt to jab an ice troll!
You have decent positioning against an ice troll.
UAF: 245 vs UDF: 192 = 1.276 * MM: 104 + d100: 52 = 184
... and hit for 6 points of damage!
Fast jab bruises right palm.
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup jab attack!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
You attempt to jab an ice troll!
As you strike, a deep golden light surrounds your hands!
You have good positioning against an ice troll.
UAF: 245 vs UDF: 182 = 1.346 * MM: 101 + d100: 82 = 217
... and hit for 18 points of damage!
Well-executed jab to the ice troll's left eye!
The ice troll is stunned!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup kick attack!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
The shrieking winds become suddenly violent. The temperature drops drastically, numbing your extremities in a heartbeat. You cannot see through the flying snow and ice, and it looks as though you may be in trouble!
R>
You attempt to kick an ice troll!
You have excellent positioning against an ice troll.
UAF: 245 vs UDF: 191 = 1.282 * MM: 107 + d100: 84 = 221
... and hit for 118 points of damage!
Amazing kick goes through abdomen without slowing, sending stomach flying out through the back!
The ice troll cries out in cold agony one last time and dies.
The powerful look leaves an ice troll.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>

>What interests me is how holding a weapon affects the probabilities of this sort of thing happening.

I don't think it would have been very different at all. Your second strike was also a jab, which has a huge opportunity to give you a tier opportunity, especially with a 200+ endroll. I believe Finros stated that tiering opportunity is somewhat related to endroll, so you're right that lower endrolls from holding a low-enchant weapon may have a slight impact on tiering, but if you look at my examples, there was a difference in endroll of about 7 points between empty hands and 1 midweight weapon. If you're consistently hitting with 180-200 endrolls, I really doubt the impact is very significant, especially with jabs.

Droit

---

Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""

>I've said it before and I'll say it again, holding one knuckle-blade provides a clear damage advantage over empty handed.

Certainly. But in case it wasn't already clear, base damage and critical rank are calculated independently of each other. Held weapons will increase your damage (as they are supposed to), but the smaller endroll may end up lessening the crit. And, as you correctly remember, the tier-up opportunity also has an endroll component. Remember that the system is intended to generally favor empty hands over held weapons for offensive purposes.

">But in case it wasn't already clear, base damage and critical rank are calculated independently of each other.

This is news to me, and it certainly provides some food for thought." -- Droit, quoting & replying to Finros

.

I think it is likely that there should be a bracketed ["in the UAC system, as opposed to regular melee combat"] note at the end of Finros' statement.

I guess the question is, how sensitive is the crit rank to endroll? Will a difference of 7 points of endroll have a significant impact on crit rank? And again, enroll disparity can be overcome with enchanted weapons (yes, believe it or not, there are many characters that use >4x weapons).

Droit

---

Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""

The combined bonus is capped at 50.

Droit

---

Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""

The fact that crit rank is determined by endroll and not damage changes things quite a bit (not that you knew that beforehand). I would agree that open hands are better in most cases, unless you are fighting non-crittable opponents or you have a particularly special brawling weapon.

Droit

---

Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""

Yeah I did the same thing at the auto flarer, made several sets of the light and heavy class UCS brawlers with varying flares just in case. I think for the most part fire flarers for trolls and the few other critters with elemental weaknesses would be about the only time I'd use them.

I'm still curious about offhand outright parries with 1214 disarming, I'll have to check it out when I get the spell.

>One other situation where a weapon has an advantage is with Cmans. e.g. you can wspec a paingrip for bonus to CM rolls, and you get the ability to use Cmans that don't allow barehanded use (e.g. feint/disarm at less than rank 5).<


Has anyone bonded with a brawling weapon yet and test against UAF?


Cryheart